Israel-Gaza war

[pppolitics]

The ICC can go piss up a rope.  Israel should immediately make clear that any attempt to enforce this will be treated as a declaration of war.  Hopefully, the rest of the world does the right thing and uses the warrants for Gallant and Netanyahu as toilet paper.

Do it!

Israel is well on its way to join North Korea, Iran, and Russia as a rogue state.

Might as well speed up the process.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Israel needs to immediately make clear that any country attempting to carry out these illegal warrants will be treated as if they attempted a kidnapping and hostage-taking of an Israeli official. And start sending Netanyahu around the world with a security force that can repel such an attempt.

Receiving countries can deny visas. Foreign citizens don't have a right to travel to other countries.

Such an action by the ICC I think would make Netanyahu persona non grata in most of Europe. They won't arrest him but that means to not having to arrest him and being exposed as hypocrites (a bunch of African states right now are salivating at the notion of European states being forced by law to arrest a foreign leader and choose not to), they just won't let him fly or travel there. The U.S. won't do anything to Netanyahu, but that's quite the long plane trip from Tel Aviv to New York and Netanyahu and his ministers would be even more effectively isolated internationally.

If Netanyahu flies to the U.S. and he is under ICC criminal charges and we choose to do nothing, then the U.S. can never say anything "ICC" again in any circumstance and have it be worth ten cents.

The official US position is that we have no obligations to the ICC and are further under no obligations to see the treaty's success. That's been more-or-less the American position since 2002. Hell, in 2021 Blinken made a statement about the State Department's "longstanding objection to the Court’s efforts to assert jurisdiction over personnel of non-States Parties such as the United States and Israel." So I doubt anyone would consider US statements on the ICC regarding Israelis to be relevant anyway.

The ICC can go piss up a rope.  Israel should immediately make clear that any attempt to enforce this will be treated as a declaration of war.  Hopefully, the rest of the world does the right thing and uses the warrants for Gallant and Netanyahu as toilet paper.

Probably wouldn't be a good idea for Israel to declare war on a NATO state creating an even bigger international crisis, most of alliance being Rome Statute signatories.

Bold of you to assume any of NATO country except Turkey would ever be dumb enough to try and enforce this.  And it’s not like Netanyahu or Gallant have any compelling reason to go to Turkey, so Turkey won’t get a chance to attempt to do so.

“The ICC is just bullying Israel! Why do they indict Hamas too!?!”
*ICC also indicts Hamas*
“Reeeeeeeeee”

The ICC also indicting three Hamas leaders means simply that.  Obviously, I have no issue with issuing arrest warrants for Haniyeh, Sinwar, and Deif, but that doesn’t mean the warrants for Gallant and Netanyahu aren’t nonsense that should be tossed in the garbage bin.

Also, pro-tip: Your attempts at drive by gotcha posts will work better if they’re based on something other than imaginary straw men.  

Hard to call it a strawman when the comment above is you saying it’s fine that the ICC indicted people I don’t like but how dare they do it to people I do

[pppolitics]

Israel should tell the ICC any attempt to arrest Israeli officials will be treated as a declaration of war and we should tell the ICC that we support Israel in doing that

There is no "we".

[OSR stands with Israel]

Israel needs to immediately make clear that any country attempting to carry out these illegal warrants will be treated as if they attempted a kidnapping and hostage-taking of an Israeli official. And start sending Netanyahu around the world with a security force that can repel such an attempt.

Receiving countries can deny visas. Foreign citizens don't have a right to travel to other countries.

Such an action by the ICC I think would make Netanyahu persona non grata in most of Europe. They won't arrest him but that means to not having to arrest him and being exposed as hypocrites (a bunch of African states right now are salivating at the notion of European states being forced by law to arrest a foreign leader and choose not to), they just won't let him fly or travel there. The U.S. won't do anything to Netanyahu, but that's quite the long plane trip from Tel Aviv to New York and Netanyahu and his ministers would be even more effectively isolated internationally.

If Netanyahu flies to the U.S. and he is under ICC criminal charges and we choose to do nothing, then the U.S. can never say anything "ICC" again in any circumstance and have it be worth ten cents.

The official US position is that we have no obligations to the ICC and are further under no obligations to see the treaty's success. That's been more-or-less the American position since 2002. Hell, in 2021 Blinken made a statement about the State Department's "longstanding objection to the Court’s efforts to assert jurisdiction over personnel of non-States Parties such as the United States and Israel." So I doubt anyone would consider US statements on the ICC regarding Israelis to be relevant anyway.

Doesn't apply to Europe who are the ICC's chief backers. So either Netanyahu visits and they're exposed as hypocrites and the ICC as an institution completely fails (would suit Africa en masse or really all the Global South perfectly fine), or Netanyahu can just never travel to Europe which gives Europeans the out of "we're not hypocrites, if his plane landed here we would've arrested him".

The U.S. are not treaty members but we back ICC actions when we find them useful, for example Putin's arrest warrant last year and Omar al-Bashir of Sudan.

That’s just called realpolitik. We aren’t gonna object when organizations we dislike take actions that we favor

[LAKISYLVANIA]

we should tell the ICC that we support Israel in doing that

Will ensure Biden loses his re-election.

[OSR stands with Israel]

we should tell the ICC that we support Israel in doing that

Will ensure Biden loses his re-election.

American voters are way more pro Israel than pro Palestine . Biden being pro Palestine would ensure he loses reelection.

[Red Velvet]

https://twitter.com/jdiamond1/status/1792508517544243416?s=12

Israel officials themselves said out loud that Israel is committing genocide.

ICC was forced to do it.

The crime is so blazon that if ICC don't do it, the rest of the world can easily point out the laws don't apply to western countries and their allies.

We can? We’ve been doing that since the conflict began! And we will keep doing it because the difference in treatment is extremely obvious.

You’re right that ICC was forced to do this, especially after the precedent of Putin being condemned by same court at a muuuuch faster rate than anybody moved anything to condemn Netanyahu.

They clearly don’t want to hold Israel accountable but they kinda have to in order to protect their relevance within the Global South under risk of becoming a joke that works AGAINST them, only stimulating more countries to leave the ICC.

Hot take: Both Putin and Netanyahu condemnations are very wrong in the sense the court is egregiously overstating their reach. It’s absolutely ridiculous to establish that country leaders cannot have diplomatic visits to another country (otherwise they’re jailed) because they’re at war.

A Netanyahu condemnation would soften perceptions of disgusting Western Double Standards, but the general dissatisfaction of an International Court feeling empowered to dictate to countries which main leaderships can or cannot be received is always going to be seen as interference on national business.

You will have both the Westerners pissed that their relation with Israel is directly affected by not being able to receive the Israel leader AND the Global South pissed about westerners lecturing about their relations with Russia.

Sometimes these silly theatrics are just counterproductive for everyone. I don’t think the Netanyahu condemnation solves anything regarding the conflict and dissatisfaction towards the ICC will remain.

[pppolitics]

we should tell the ICC that we support Israel in doing that

Will ensure Biden loses his re-election.

American voters are way more pro Israel than pro Palestine . Biden being pro Palestine would ensure he loses reelection.

Democrats are not and most Republicans are not going to vote for Biden no matter what his Israel/Palestine policy is.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Israel should tell the ICC any attempt to arrest Israeli officials will be treated as a declaration of war and we should tell the ICC that we support Israel in doing that

I would say they would be better off communicating that to the countries the ICC would try to turn into their enforcement agents.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Israel needs to immediately make clear that any country attempting to carry out these illegal warrants will be treated as if they attempted a kidnapping and hostage-taking of an Israeli official. And start sending Netanyahu around the world with a security force that can repel such an attempt.

Receiving countries can deny visas. Foreign citizens don't have a right to travel to other countries.

Such an action by the ICC I think would make Netanyahu persona non grata in most of Europe. They won't arrest him but that means to not having to arrest him and being exposed as hypocrites (a bunch of African states right now are salivating at the notion of European states being forced by law to arrest a foreign leader and choose not to), they just won't let him fly or travel there. The U.S. won't do anything to Netanyahu, but that's quite the long plane trip from Tel Aviv to New York and Netanyahu and his ministers would be even more effectively isolated internationally.

If Netanyahu flies to the U.S. and he is under ICC criminal charges and we choose to do nothing, then the U.S. can never say anything "ICC" again in any circumstance and have it be worth ten cents.

Any country who is a signatory to the Rome Statute would be obliged to arrest him.

Didn't really work in South Africa with the Sudanese leader did it?

That would be a middle ground that would likely still have severe diplomatic consequences, both with Israel and the US, but not nearly the dangerous pandora's box that would ensue if any of these countries tried to detain Netanyahu or Gallant.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Israel needs to immediately make clear that any country attempting to carry out these illegal warrants will be treated as if they attempted a kidnapping and hostage-taking of an Israeli official. And start sending Netanyahu around the world with a security force that can repel such an attempt.

Receiving countries can deny visas. Foreign citizens don't have a right to travel to other countries.

Such an action by the ICC I think would make Netanyahu persona non grata in most of Europe. They won't arrest him but that means to not having to arrest him and being exposed as hypocrites (a bunch of African states right now are salivating at the notion of European states being forced by law to arrest a foreign leader and choose not to), they just won't let him fly or travel there. The U.S. won't do anything to Netanyahu, but that's quite the long plane trip from Tel Aviv to New York and Netanyahu and his ministers would be even more effectively isolated internationally.

If Netanyahu flies to the U.S. and he is under ICC criminal charges and we choose to do nothing, then the U.S. can never say anything "ICC" again in any circumstance and have it be worth ten cents.

The official US position is that we have no obligations to the ICC and are further under no obligations to see the treaty's success. That's been more-or-less the American position since 2002. Hell, in 2021 Blinken made a statement about the State Department's "longstanding objection to the Court’s efforts to assert jurisdiction over personnel of non-States Parties such as the United States and Israel." So I doubt anyone would consider US statements on the ICC regarding Israelis to be relevant anyway.

The ICC can go piss up a rope.  Israel should immediately make clear that any attempt to enforce this will be treated as a declaration of war.  Hopefully, the rest of the world does the right thing and uses the warrants for Gallant and Netanyahu as toilet paper.

Probably wouldn't be a good idea for Israel to declare war on a NATO state creating an even bigger international crisis, most of alliance being Rome Statute signatories.

The thing is, and I think the US would agree, if said NATO state detained a leader of a foreign country based on a warrant from a court that country doesn't recognize, THEY would be the one declaring war.

[OSR stands with Israel]

The ICC can go piss up a rope.  Israel should immediately make clear that any attempt to enforce this will be treated as a declaration of war.  Hopefully, the rest of the world does the right thing and uses the warrants for Gallant and Netanyahu as toilet paper.

If Israel does that, the only right thing to do for any European nation is to declare war.

We will obey ICJ whether you like it or not. And if Israel threatens with war, war it shall be.

Western Europe is a joke at this point and our increasingly reliant on major foreign powers to sustain their economy. Without us Western Europe’s economy would collapse and would be under constant threat from China and Russia so please understand that Western Europe is increasingly irrelevant in the world stage now .

As for red velvet , understand that I really don’t care as much about the “west” as you think I do . I care far more about American Hegemony than I do about all these so called institutions that Western Europe supports for example and also I think we are truly unique in our own ways .

[Red Velvet]

Israel should tell the ICC any attempt to arrest Israeli officials will be treated as a declaration of war and we should tell the ICC that we support Israel in doing that

That would simply END the ICC once and for all, with mass defections.

Which I am very in favor of, as a nationalist. It’s just fun to watch that the same people here (not referring to you, I am talking about red avis) posing as liberal internationalists only when it’s on THEIR national interests - ie: Putin being condemned - and then suddenly turning against international institutions whenever it’s NOT, like Netanyahu being condemned.

I’ve said this before, but we’re not in XX century anymore. USA will be forced to choose between being an interventionist + internationalist power or a non-interventionist + nationalist power.

World is becoming way more decentralized for it to successfully maintain its natural instinct of interventionist + nationalist without expecting major setbacks in return. And it’s becoming more and more clear that all of you guys - not just Trumpists, but Democrats too - will eventually choose to give up on your internationalist prestige first (and which gives you credibility that allows for interventionism) in order to protect national interests.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Israel needs to immediately make clear that any country attempting to carry out these illegal warrants will be treated as if they attempted a kidnapping and hostage-taking of an Israeli official. And start sending Netanyahu around the world with a security force that can repel such an attempt.

Receiving countries can deny visas. Foreign citizens don't have a right to travel to other countries.

Such an action by the ICC I think would make Netanyahu persona non grata in most of Europe. They won't arrest him but that means to not having to arrest him and being exposed as hypocrites (a bunch of African states right now are salivating at the notion of European states being forced by law to arrest a foreign leader and choose not to), they just won't let him fly or travel there. The U.S. won't do anything to Netanyahu, but that's quite the long plane trip from Tel Aviv to New York and Netanyahu and his ministers would be even more effectively isolated internationally.

If Netanyahu flies to the U.S. and he is under ICC criminal charges and we choose to do nothing, then the U.S. can never say anything "ICC" again in any circumstance and have it be worth ten cents.

The official US position is that we have no obligations to the ICC and are further under no obligations to see the treaty's success. That's been more-or-less the American position since 2002. Hell, in 2021 Blinken made a statement about the State Department's "longstanding objection to the Court’s efforts to assert jurisdiction over personnel of non-States Parties such as the United States and Israel." So I doubt anyone would consider US statements on the ICC regarding Israelis to be relevant anyway.

The ICC can go piss up a rope.  Israel should immediately make clear that any attempt to enforce this will be treated as a declaration of war.  Hopefully, the rest of the world does the right thing and uses the warrants for Gallant and Netanyahu as toilet paper.

Probably wouldn't be a good idea for Israel to declare war on a NATO state creating an even bigger international crisis, most of alliance being Rome Statute signatories.

Bold of you to assume any of NATO country except Turkey would ever be dumb enough to try and enforce this.  And it’s not like Netanyahu or Gallant have any compelling reason to go to Turkey, so Turkey won’t get a chance to attempt to do so.

“The ICC is just bullying Israel! Why do they indict Hamas too!?!”
*ICC also indicts Hamas*
“Reeeeeeeeee”

The ICC also indicting three Hamas leaders means simply that.  Obviously, I have no issue with issuing arrest warrants for Haniyeh, Sinwar, and Deif, but that doesn’t mean the warrants for Gallant and Netanyahu aren’t nonsense that should be tossed in the garbage bin.

Also, pro-tip: Your attempts at drive by gotcha posts will work better if they’re based on something other than imaginary straw men.

Hard to call it a strawman when the comment above is you saying it’s fine that the ICC indicted people I don’t like but how dare they do it to people I do

Serious question: Do you know what the term “straw man” means?  The comment above is me saying that the ICC indicting people who deserved it doesn’t make the warrants against Gallant and Netanyahu any less idiotic or baseless.

Also, I don’t like Gallant and absolutely despise Netanyahu, but thanks for playing

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Israel should tell the ICC any attempt to arrest Israeli officials will be treated as a declaration of war and we should tell the ICC that we support Israel in doing that

That would simply END the ICC once and for all, with mass defections.

Which I am very in favor of, as a nationalist. It’s just fun to watch that the same people here (not referring to you, I am talking about red avis) posing as liberal internationalists only when it’s on THEIR national interests - ie: Putin being condemned - and then suddenly turning against international institutions whenever it’s NOT, like Netanyahu being condemned.

I’ve said this before, but we’re not in XX century anymore. USA will be forced to choose between being an interventionist + internationalist power or a non-interventionist + nationalist power.

World is becoming way more decentralized for it to successfully maintain its natural instinct of interventionist + nationalist without expecting major setbacks in return. And it’s becoming more and more clear that all of you guys - not just Trumpists, but Democrats too - will eventually choose to give up on your internationalist prestige first (and which gives you credibility that allows for interventionism) in order to protect national interests.

I'm not a nationalist by any means, but yeah "liberal internationalism is good until it no longer is". That's very much true. This forum (or portions of this forum) can be ridicilously hypocrite sometimes.

Probably everyone cheered the decision to issue a warrant for Putin, but now that one has been issued for Netanyahu we even hear calls here to ignore it, and that nations that decide not to ignore it Israel should declare war against.

You can't even make this up anymore. The credibility some had is completely gone and the shamelessness of some users is just hilarious to watch.

[Comrade Funk]

The ICC is antisemitic. Bernie Sanders is antisemitic. Everyone is antisemitic.

I hate Netanyahu and the last 20 years of Israeli leadership, but I will defend his bloodthirsty policies because not defending Israel is antisemitic.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

The ICC is antisemitic. Bernie Sanders is antisemitic. Everyone is antisemitic.

Bernie Sanders should choose much better friends.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

The ICC is antisemitic. Bernie Sanders is antisemitic. Everyone is antisemitic.

I hate Netanyahu and the last 20 years of Israeli leadership, but I will defend his bloodthirsty policies because not defending Israel is antisemitic.

Imagine actually believing anyone in this thread said anything like this

[MyLifeIsYours]

https://twitter.com/AshlarRob/status/1792537990616514738

[Devils30]

http://

https://twitter.com/AshlarRob/status/1792537990616514738

NGO/Leftist/TikTok brain rot right here

[LAKISYLVANIA]

The ICC is antisemitic. Bernie Sanders is antisemitic. Everyone is antisemitic.

I hate Netanyahu and the last 20 years of Israeli leadership, but I will defend his bloodthirsty policies because not defending Israel is antisemitic.

Imagine actually believing anyone in this thread said anything like this

Yes, you do.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

The ICC is antisemitic. Bernie Sanders is antisemitic. Everyone is antisemitic.

I hate Netanyahu and the last 20 years of Israeli leadership, but I will defend his bloodthirsty policies because not defending Israel is antisemitic.

Imagine actually believing anyone in this thread said anything like this

Yes, you do.

No, I didn’t, but thanks for playing

[LAKISYLVANIA]

The ICC is antisemitic. Bernie Sanders is antisemitic. Everyone is antisemitic.

I hate Netanyahu and the last 20 years of Israeli leadership, but I will defend his bloodthirsty policies because not defending Israel is antisemitic.

Imagine actually believing anyone in this thread said anything like this

Yes, you do.

No, I didn’t, but thanks for playing

You have called anyone who disagrees with you antisemitist.

You have called

Rashida Tlaib
Jeremy Corbyn
the state of Belgium
International Criminal Court
Amnesty International
The user PSOL
amongst several others

antisemitist.

It's the only word you can use for defense whenever someone rightfully accuses Israel of commiting war crimes. And you continue to call for people to ignore international organisations and institutions and to attempt to delegitimize them.

[Horus]

The ICC is antisemitic. Bernie Sanders is antisemitic. Everyone is antisemitic.

Bernie Sanders should choose much better friends.

His friends are fine. Israel and their sycophants should behave better and act a bit less entitled.

[Horus]

The ICC is antisemitic. Bernie Sanders is antisemitic. Everyone is antisemitic.

I hate Netanyahu and the last 20 years of Israeli leadership, but I will defend his bloodthirsty policies because not defending Israel is antisemitic.

Imagine actually believing anyone in this thread said anything like this

Yes, you do.

No, I didn’t, but thanks for playing

The point is people like you and Ray use the term far too broadly, and operate with a guilty until proven innocent mindset when anything involving Israel comes up.