Israel-Gaza war
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Author Topic: Israel-Gaza war  (Read 222799 times)
Oregon Eagle Politics
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« Reply #7350 on: May 20, 2024, 06:29:35 AM »


Great news.
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Rubensim
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« Reply #7351 on: May 20, 2024, 06:32:53 AM »


If this happen then say goodbye to israel ever working with the UN or ICC again
I know bibi isn't popular but a arrest warrant against it current prime minister? that just asking for a huge controversy.
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Meclazine for Israel
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« Reply #7352 on: May 20, 2024, 06:37:16 AM »

The ICC arresting Benjamin Netanyahu?

https://youtu.be/ccenFp_3kq8
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emailking
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« Reply #7353 on: May 20, 2024, 07:21:33 AM »

ICC seeks arrest warrants against Sinwar and Netanyahu for war crimes over October 7 attack and Gaza war

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The International Criminal Court is seeking arrest warrants for Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity over the October 7 attacks on Israel and the subsequent war in Gaza, the court’s chief prosecutor Karim Khan told CNN’s Christiane Amanpour in an exclusive interview on Monday.

Khan said the ICC is also seeking warrants for Israel’s Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, as well as two other top Hamas leaders — Mohammed Diab Ibrahim al-Masri, the leader of the Al Qassem Brigades and better known as Mohammed Deif, and Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas’ political leader.

The warrants against the Israeli politicians mark the first time the ICC has targeted the top leader of a close ally of the United States. The decision puts Netanyahu in the company of the Russian President Vladimir Putin, for whom the ICC issued an arrest warrant over Moscow’s war on Ukraine.

A panel of ICC judges will now consider Khan’s application for the arrest warrants.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/20/middleeast/icc-israel-hamas-arrest-warrant-war-crimes-intl/index.html
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Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #7354 on: May 20, 2024, 07:45:01 AM »

Israel needs to immediately make clear that any country attempting to carry out these illegal warrants will be treated as if they attempted a kidnapping and hostage-taking of an Israeli official. And start sending Netanyahu around the world with a security force that can repel such an attempt.
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Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #7355 on: May 20, 2024, 07:46:35 AM »

Crickets from the Western media.



This dude is a tankie apologist for the Chinese, Russian, Iranian, and Syrian governments who claims that the Syrian government’s use of chemical weapons is a hoax, has been denying the existence of China’s genocide against the Uyghurs, refers to Israelis as “Judeo-Nazis,” has compared Israel to ISIS, and made numerous false claims to minimize the 10/7 massacre including suggesting that it may’ve been an Israeli false-flag operation.  He’s not a remotely credible sources, but it says a lot about you that you seem to think he is.

Is anyone who condemns the genocide in Gaza suddenly a tankie apologist or antisemitist?

You even called Amnesty International antisemitist... Or Jeremy Corbyn or Rashida Tlaib.

1) What’s happening in Gaza is objectively not a genocide.  Words have meaning.  This is simply a statement of fact. 

2) I have called them anti-Semitic and I stand by that. 

That post is hilarious. "You called this unambiguously antisemitic person an antisemite...but you also called these other unambiguously antisemitic people antisemites! Checkmate!"
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pppolitics
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« Reply #7356 on: May 20, 2024, 07:46:43 AM »
« Edited: May 20, 2024, 07:57:51 AM by pppolitics »



Israel officials themselves said out loud that Israel is committing genocide.

ICC was forced to do it.

The crime is so blazon that if ICC don't do it, the rest of the world can easily point out the laws don't apply to western countries and their allies.
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Rubensim
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« Reply #7357 on: May 20, 2024, 08:06:58 AM »



Israel officials themselves said out loud that Israel is committing genocide.

ICC was forced to do it.

The crime is so blazon that if ICC don't do it, the rest of the world can easily point out the laws don't apply to western countries and their allies.
Who officials?
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Silent Hunter
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« Reply #7358 on: May 20, 2024, 08:17:47 AM »

Israel needs to immediately make clear that any country attempting to carry out these illegal warrants will be treated as if they attempted a kidnapping and hostage-taking of an Israeli official. And start sending Netanyahu around the world with a security force that can repel such an attempt.

Any country who is a signatory to the Rome Statute would be obliged to arrest him.
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Oregon Eagle Politics
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« Reply #7359 on: May 20, 2024, 08:21:12 AM »

Bibi fanboys will be working overtime in this thread.
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Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #7360 on: May 20, 2024, 08:21:41 AM »

Israel needs to immediately make clear that any country attempting to carry out these illegal warrants will be treated as if they attempted a kidnapping and hostage-taking of an Israeli official. And start sending Netanyahu around the world with a security force that can repel such an attempt.

Any country who is a signatory to the Rome Statute would be obliged to arrest him.

Perhaps, but he is not obligated to acquiesce to their attempt.
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pppolitics
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« Reply #7361 on: May 20, 2024, 08:51:07 AM »



Israel officials themselves said out loud that Israel is committing genocide.

ICC was forced to do it.

The crime is so blazon that if ICC don't do it, the rest of the world can easily point out the laws don't apply to western countries and their allies.
Who officials?

If this isn't genocide, I don't know what would be:

Quote
“you must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember”
- Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu

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“It’s an entire nation out there that is responsible. It’s not true this rhetoric about civilians not aware not involved. It’s absolutely not true. … and we will fight until we break their backbone.”
- President Isaac Herzog

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“[Israel is] imposing a complete siege on Gaza. No electricity, no food, no water, no fuel. Everything is closed. We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly.”
- Defence Minister Yoav Gallant

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“[t]o be clear, when we say that Hamas should be destroyed, it also means those who celebrate, those who support, and those who hand out candy — they’re all terrorists, and they should also be destroyed.”
- Minister of National Security Itamar Ben-Gvir

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“Humanitarian aid to Gaza? No electrical switch will be turned on, no water hydrant will be opened and no fuel truck will enter until the Israeli abductees are returned home. Humanitarianism for humanitarianism. And no one will preach us morality.”
- Israeli Minister of Energy and Infrastructure Israel Katz

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“[w]e need to deal a blow that hasn’t been seen in 50 years and take down Gaza.”
- Israeli Minister of Finance Bezalel Smotrich

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“The north of the Gaza Strip, more beautiful than ever. Everything is blown up and
flattened, simply a pleasure for the eyes … We must talk about the day after. In my mind, we
will hand over lots to all those who fought for Gaza over the years and to those evicted from
Gush Katif”
- Israeli Minister of Heritage Amichai Eliyahu

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“we wouldn’t hand the Nazis humanitarian aid”
- Israeli Minister of Heritage Amichai Eliyahu

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“there is no such thing as uninvolved civilians in Gaza”
- Israeli Minister of Heritage Amichai Eliyahu

Heritage Minister Amichai Eliyahu said that one of Israel's options in the war against Hamas could be to drop a nuclear bomb on the Gaza Strip

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“we are now actually rolling out the Gaza Nakba”
- Israeli Minister of Agriculture Avi Dichter

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“now we all have one common goal — erasing the Gaza Strip from the face of the earth. Those who are unable will be replaced.”
- Deputy Speaker of the Knesset and Member of the Foreign Affairs and Security Committee Nissim Vaturi

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“Hamas became ISIS and the citizens of Gaza are celebrating instead of being horrified. Human animals are dealt with accordingly. Israel has imposed a total blockade on Gaza, no electricity, no water, just damage. You wanted hell, you will get hell.”
- Israeli Army Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories Major General Ghassan Alian

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"This is what Israel has begun to do — we cut the supply of energy, water and diesel to the Strip . . . But it’s not enough. In order to make the siege effective, we have to prevent others from giving assistance to Gaza . . . The people should be told that they have two choices; to stay and to starve, or to leave."
- Israeli Army Reservist Major General, former Head of the Israeli National Security Council, and adviser to the Defence Minister Giora Eiland

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“[w]hen you are at war with another country you don't feed them, you don't provide them electricity or gas or water or anything else . . . A country can be attacked in a much broader way, to bring the
country to the brink of dysfunction. This is the necessary outcome of events”
- Giora Eiland

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“Israel has no interest in the Gaza Strip being rehabilitated and this is an important point
that needs to be made clear to the Americans”
- Giora Eiland

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“if we ever want to see the hostages alive, the only way is to create a severe humanitarian crisis in Gaza”
- Giora Eiland

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“[water] comes from wells with salt water unfit for consumption. They have water treatment plants, Israel should hit those plants. When the entire world says we have gone insane and this is a humanitarian disaster — we will say, it’s not an end, it’s a means.”
- Giora Eiland

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“[C]reate such a huge pressure on Gaza, that Gaza will become an area where people cannot live. People cannot live, until Hamas is destroyed, which means that Israel not only stops to supply energy, diesel, water, food … as we did in the last twenty years … but we should prevent any possible assistance by others, and to create in Gaza such a terrible, unbearable situation, that can last weeks and months”
- Giora Eiland

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“the State of Israel has no choice but to make Gaza a place that is temporarily, or permanently, impossible to live in.”
- Giora Eiland

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“Israel needs to create a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, compelling tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands to seek refuge in Egypt or the Gulf . . . Gaza will become a place where no human being can exist.”
- Giora Eiland

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“Who are the ‘poor’ women of Gaza? They are all the mothers, sisters or wives of Hamas murderers. On the one hand, they are part of the infrastructure that supports the organization, and on the other hand, if they experience a humanitarian disaster, then it can be assumed that some of the Hamas fighters and the more junior commanders will begin to understand that the war is futile . . . The international community warns us of a humanitarian disaster in Gaza and of severe epidemics. We must not shy away from this, as difficult as that may be. After all, severe epidemics in the south of the Gaza Strip will bring victory closer . . . It is precisely its civil collapse that will bring the end of the war closer. When senior Israeli figures say in the media ‘It's either us or them’ we should clarify the question of who is ‘them’. ‘They’ are not only Hamas fighters with weapons, but also all the ‘civilian’ officials, including hospital administrators and school administrators, and also the entire Gaza population who enthusiastically supported Hamas and cheered on its atrocities on October 7th.”
- President Herzog

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“Be triumphant and finish them off and don’t leave anyone behind. Erase the memory of them. Erase them, their families, mothers and children. These animals can no longer live . . . Every Jew with a weapon should go out and kill them. If you have an Arab neighbour, don't wait, go to his home and shoot him . . . We want to invade, not like before, we want to enter and destroy what’s in front of us, and destroy houses, then destroy the one after it. With all of our forces, complete destruction, enter and destroy. As you can see, we will witness things we’ve never dreamed of. Let them drop bombs on them and erase them.”
-  Israeli army reservist Ezra Yachin

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“work[ing] together with all the bodies in the IDF when the goal is clear — to destroy everything that has been touched by the hand of Hamas”
- Head of the Israeli army’s Air Operations Group Lieutenant colonel Gilad Kinan

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“[t]he entire Gaza should resemble Beit Hanoun”
Commander in the 2908th Battalion of the Israeli army Yair Ben David

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[w]hoever returns here, if they return here after, will find scorched earth. No houses, no agriculture, no nothing. They have no future”
- Israeli Army Colonel, Deputy Head of COGAT Colonel Yogev Bar
Sheshet

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“Vengeance is a great value. There is vengeance over what they did to us … This place will be a fallow land. They will not be able to live here”
- Colonel Erez Eshel

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'May your village burn'!! Yes, yes, as far as I'm concerned, it's a great morale to wish Gaza to be wiped out and set on fire. I have often said revenge is a value. They almost occupied the kibbutzim of the south, slaughtered, raped, decapitated and gouged out eyes, almost 1400 were murdered in one Shabbat. So let their village burn. And if 'La Familia' sing it, it's because they understand that the enemy only understands power! And more power.
-  Revital Gottlieb

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"They used the word revenge a lot. I don't think it's revenge - it's justice. If you ask me on a personal level - I flatten Gaza, I have no sentiments. Because the killers of the women and children should not be separated from the citizens of Gaza"
- Keti sh**trit

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Erasing all of Gaza from the face of the earth.
That the Gazan monsters will fly to the southern fence and try to enter Egyptian territory.
or they will die.
And their death is evil.
Gaza should be erased.
And fire and smoke on the heads of the Nazis in Judea and Samaria.
Haron is also a Jew who will shake the earth of the world.
A vengeful and cruel IDF is needed here.
Anything less is immoral.
Just unethical."
- Tally Gotliv

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"Shelling from the air without mercy!! It is enough to feel sorry for cruel people at such painful prices. It is enough to feel sorry for Gazans who are not involved. There are no uninvolved. Any Gazan who remains in a combat location is assisting a terrorist organization. enough!
Change diskette. Destroy every place where there are terrorists and terrorist aides. from the air!!
Do not endanger soldiers if you can shell from the air!"
- Tally Gotliv

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"There are no innocents in Gaza."
- Avigdor Liberman

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“the killers of the women and children should not be separated from the citizens of Gaza”
-  Katrin “Keti” sh**trit-Peretz

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“the children of Gaza have brought this upon themselves”
- Meirav Ben-Ari

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“there should be one sentence for everyone there — death”
-  Yitzhak Kroizer

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“[w]e must not forget that even the ‘innocent citizens’ — the cruel and monstrous people from Gaza took an active part . . . there is no place for any humanitarian gesture — the memory of Amalek must be protested”
- Boaz Bismouth

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“[w]ithout hunger and thirst among the Gazan population, we will not be able to recruit collaborators”
- Revital Gottlieb

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"Nuclear Missile! Nuclear Missile! Strategic alert. before considering the introduction of forces.
Nuclear weapon! This is my opinion. May God preserve all our strength"
- Tally Gotliv

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"Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 48. Nakba in Gaza and Nakba to anyone who dares to join! their Nakba, because like then in 1948, the alternative is clear."
-  Ariel Kallner
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Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #7362 on: May 20, 2024, 08:55:10 AM »

And the spamming resumes. Once again, yelling things is not genocide and conducting a defensive war is also not genocide.
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pppolitics
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« Reply #7363 on: May 20, 2024, 09:09:35 AM »

And the spamming resumes. Once again, yelling things is not genocide and conducting a defensive war is also not genocide.

The crime of genocide require the intend to commit genocide.

Fortunately, we have Israeli official's on owns words on that.
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« Reply #7364 on: May 20, 2024, 09:21:25 AM »

Israel should tell the ICC any attempt to arrest Israeli officials will be treated as a declaration of war and we should tell the ICC that we support Israel in doing that
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Open Source Intelligence
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« Reply #7365 on: May 20, 2024, 09:43:42 AM »
« Edited: May 20, 2024, 10:01:54 AM by Open Source Intelligence »

Israel needs to immediately make clear that any country attempting to carry out these illegal warrants will be treated as if they attempted a kidnapping and hostage-taking of an Israeli official. And start sending Netanyahu around the world with a security force that can repel such an attempt.

Receiving countries can deny visas. Foreign citizens don't have a right to travel to other countries.

Such an action by the ICC I think would make Netanyahu persona non grata in most of Europe. They won't arrest him but that means to not having to arrest him and being exposed as hypocrites (a bunch of African states right now are salivating at the notion of European states being forced by law to arrest a foreign leader and choose not to), they just won't let him fly or travel there. The U.S. won't do anything to Netanyahu, but that's quite the long plane trip from Tel Aviv to New York and Netanyahu and his ministers would be even more effectively isolated internationally.

If Netanyahu flies to the U.S. and he is under ICC criminal charges and we choose to do nothing, then the U.S. can never say anything "ICC" again in any circumstance and have it be worth ten cents.

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Any country who is a signatory to the Rome Statute would be obliged to arrest him.


Didn't really work in South Africa with the Sudanese leader did it?
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #7366 on: May 20, 2024, 10:23:25 AM »

The ICC can go piss up a rope.  Israel should immediately make clear that any attempt to enforce this will be treated as a declaration of war.  Hopefully, the rest of the world does the right thing and uses the warrants for Gallant and Netanyahu as toilet paper.
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Rubensim
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« Reply #7367 on: May 20, 2024, 10:26:02 AM »

The ICC can go piss up a rope.  Israel should immediately make clear that any attempt to enforce this will be treated as a declaration of war.  Hopefully, the rest of the world does the right thing and uses the warrants for Gallant and Netanyahu as toilet paper.
Probably only the western world will use it as toilet paper which means nothing changes expect some more crying from anti-Israelis about how they have a international warrant for Gallant and Netanyahu arrest.
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Hindsight was 2020
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« Reply #7368 on: May 20, 2024, 10:30:42 AM »

“The ICC is just bullying Israel! Why do they indict Hamas too!?!”
*ICC also indicts Hamas*
“Reeeeeeeeee”
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Open Source Intelligence
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« Reply #7369 on: May 20, 2024, 10:31:14 AM »
« Edited: May 20, 2024, 10:35:07 AM by Open Source Intelligence »

The ICC can go piss up a rope.  Israel should immediately make clear that any attempt to enforce this will be treated as a declaration of war.  Hopefully, the rest of the world does the right thing and uses the warrants for Gallant and Netanyahu as toilet paper.
Probably only the western world will use it as toilet paper which means nothing changes expect some more crying from anti-Israelis about how they have a international warrant for Gallant and Netanyahu arrest.

If that's what they do the International Criminal Court is effectively dead as an entity for all circumstances, not just this one. Regardless of your opinion on the charges, if they put out an arrest warrant and the countries that really care about the ICC as a legal protection mechanism globally blatantly ignore an arrest warrant, then no country ever again is going to enforce its decisions when it's in their interests not to, they can cite this example as their precedent, and the institution is dead letter.

It's why I think Europe will just say to the Israelis privately "an aircraft with Prime Minister Netanyahu on-board is not cleared to land".
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Dereich
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« Reply #7370 on: May 20, 2024, 10:34:56 AM »
« Edited: May 20, 2024, 10:38:40 AM by Dereich »

Israel needs to immediately make clear that any country attempting to carry out these illegal warrants will be treated as if they attempted a kidnapping and hostage-taking of an Israeli official. And start sending Netanyahu around the world with a security force that can repel such an attempt.

Receiving countries can deny visas. Foreign citizens don't have a right to travel to other countries.

Such an action by the ICC I think would make Netanyahu persona non grata in most of Europe. They won't arrest him but that means to not having to arrest him and being exposed as hypocrites (a bunch of African states right now are salivating at the notion of European states being forced by law to arrest a foreign leader and choose not to), they just won't let him fly or travel there. The U.S. won't do anything to Netanyahu, but that's quite the long plane trip from Tel Aviv to New York and Netanyahu and his ministers would be even more effectively isolated internationally.

If Netanyahu flies to the U.S. and he is under ICC criminal charges and we choose to do nothing, then the U.S. can never say anything "ICC" again in any circumstance and have it be worth ten cents.

The official US position is that we have no obligations to the ICC and are further under no obligations to see the treaty's success. That's been more-or-less the American position since 2002. Hell, in 2021 Blinken made a statement about the State Department's "longstanding objection to the Court’s efforts to assert jurisdiction over personnel of non-States Parties such as the United States and Israel." So I doubt anyone would consider US statements on the ICC regarding Israelis to be relevant anyway.

The ICC can go piss up a rope.  Israel should immediately make clear that any attempt to enforce this will be treated as a declaration of war.  Hopefully, the rest of the world does the right thing and uses the warrants for Gallant and Netanyahu as toilet paper.

Probably wouldn't be a good idea for Israel to declare war on a NATO state creating an even bigger international crisis, most of alliance being Rome Statute signatories.
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Open Source Intelligence
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« Reply #7371 on: May 20, 2024, 10:40:34 AM »
« Edited: May 20, 2024, 10:46:58 AM by Open Source Intelligence »

Israel needs to immediately make clear that any country attempting to carry out these illegal warrants will be treated as if they attempted a kidnapping and hostage-taking of an Israeli official. And start sending Netanyahu around the world with a security force that can repel such an attempt.

Receiving countries can deny visas. Foreign citizens don't have a right to travel to other countries.

Such an action by the ICC I think would make Netanyahu persona non grata in most of Europe. They won't arrest him but that means to not having to arrest him and being exposed as hypocrites (a bunch of African states right now are salivating at the notion of European states being forced by law to arrest a foreign leader and choose not to), they just won't let him fly or travel there. The U.S. won't do anything to Netanyahu, but that's quite the long plane trip from Tel Aviv to New York and Netanyahu and his ministers would be even more effectively isolated internationally.

If Netanyahu flies to the U.S. and he is under ICC criminal charges and we choose to do nothing, then the U.S. can never say anything "ICC" again in any circumstance and have it be worth ten cents.

The official US position is that we have no obligations to the ICC and are further under no obligations to see the treaty's success. That's been more-or-less the American position since 2002. Hell, in 2021 Blinken made a statement about the State Department's "longstanding objection to the Court’s efforts to assert jurisdiction over personnel of non-States Parties such as the United States and Israel." So I doubt anyone would consider US statements on the ICC regarding Israelis to be relevant anyway.

Doesn't apply to Europe who are the ICC's chief backers. So either Netanyahu visits and they're exposed as hypocrites and the ICC as an institution completely fails (would suit Africa en masse or really all the Global South perfectly fine), or Netanyahu can just never travel to Europe which gives Europeans the out of "we're not hypocrites, if his plane landed here we would've arrested him".

The U.S. are not treaty members but we back ICC actions when we find them useful, for example Putin's arrest warrant last year and Omar al-Bashir of Sudan.
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« Reply #7372 on: May 20, 2024, 10:50:41 AM »

Israel needs to immediately make clear that any country attempting to carry out these illegal warrants will be treated as if they attempted a kidnapping and hostage-taking of an Israeli official. And start sending Netanyahu around the world with a security force that can repel such an attempt.

Receiving countries can deny visas. Foreign citizens don't have a right to travel to other countries.

Such an action by the ICC I think would make Netanyahu persona non grata in most of Europe. They won't arrest him but that means to not having to arrest him and being exposed as hypocrites (a bunch of African states right now are salivating at the notion of European states being forced by law to arrest a foreign leader and choose not to), they just won't let him fly or travel there. The U.S. won't do anything to Netanyahu, but that's quite the long plane trip from Tel Aviv to New York and Netanyahu and his ministers would be even more effectively isolated internationally.

If Netanyahu flies to the U.S. and he is under ICC criminal charges and we choose to do nothing, then the U.S. can never say anything "ICC" again in any circumstance and have it be worth ten cents.

The official US position is that we have no obligations to the ICC and are further under no obligations to see the treaty's success. That's been more-or-less the American position since 2002. Hell, in 2021 Blinken made a statement about the State Department's "longstanding objection to the Court’s efforts to assert jurisdiction over personnel of non-States Parties such as the United States and Israel." So I doubt anyone would consider US statements on the ICC regarding Israelis to be relevant anyway.

The ICC can go piss up a rope.  Israel should immediately make clear that any attempt to enforce this will be treated as a declaration of war.  Hopefully, the rest of the world does the right thing and uses the warrants for Gallant and Netanyahu as toilet paper.

Probably wouldn't be a good idea for Israel to declare war on a NATO state creating an even bigger international crisis, most of alliance being Rome Statute signatories.

Bold of you to assume any of NATO country except Turkey would ever be dumb enough to try and enforce this.  And it’s not like Netanyahu or Gallant have any compelling reason to go to Turkey, so Turkey won’t get a chance to attempt to do so.

“The ICC is just bullying Israel! Why do they indict Hamas too!?!”
*ICC also indicts Hamas*
“Reeeeeeeeee”

The ICC also indicting three Hamas leaders means simply that.  Obviously, I have no issue with issuing arrest warrants for Haniyeh, Sinwar, and Deif, but that doesn’t mean the warrants for Gallant and Netanyahu aren’t nonsense that should be tossed in the garbage bin.

Also, pro-tip: Your attempts at drive by gotcha posts will work better if they’re based on something other than imaginary straw men.  
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« Reply #7373 on: May 20, 2024, 10:59:04 AM »
« Edited: May 20, 2024, 11:05:16 AM by Open Source Intelligence »

Israel needs to immediately make clear that any country attempting to carry out these illegal warrants will be treated as if they attempted a kidnapping and hostage-taking of an Israeli official. And start sending Netanyahu around the world with a security force that can repel such an attempt.

Receiving countries can deny visas. Foreign citizens don't have a right to travel to other countries.

Such an action by the ICC I think would make Netanyahu persona non grata in most of Europe. They won't arrest him but that means to not having to arrest him and being exposed as hypocrites (a bunch of African states right now are salivating at the notion of European states being forced by law to arrest a foreign leader and choose not to), they just won't let him fly or travel there. The U.S. won't do anything to Netanyahu, but that's quite the long plane trip from Tel Aviv to New York and Netanyahu and his ministers would be even more effectively isolated internationally.

If Netanyahu flies to the U.S. and he is under ICC criminal charges and we choose to do nothing, then the U.S. can never say anything "ICC" again in any circumstance and have it be worth ten cents.

The official US position is that we have no obligations to the ICC and are further under no obligations to see the treaty's success. That's been more-or-less the American position since 2002. Hell, in 2021 Blinken made a statement about the State Department's "longstanding objection to the Court’s efforts to assert jurisdiction over personnel of non-States Parties such as the United States and Israel." So I doubt anyone would consider US statements on the ICC regarding Israelis to be relevant anyway.

The ICC can go piss up a rope.  Israel should immediately make clear that any attempt to enforce this will be treated as a declaration of war.  Hopefully, the rest of the world does the right thing and uses the warrants for Gallant and Netanyahu as toilet paper.

Probably wouldn't be a good idea for Israel to declare war on a NATO state creating an even bigger international crisis, most of alliance being Rome Statute signatories.

Bold of you to assume any of NATO country except Turkey would ever be dumb enough to try and enforce this.  And it’s not like Netanyahu or Gallant have any compelling reason to go to Turkey, so Turkey won’t get a chance to attempt to do so.

This should be looked at in context of the Falklands War and the Rio Treaty. Argentina went to war over the Falklands with the UK and called for Rio Treaty defense. The U.S. declined saying Argentina were the aggressor. It doesn't matter if we think we're right, what matters is it made almost all of Latin America have the opinion the Rio Treaty was dead letter if the first time it was called for a non-American supported circumstance the Americans declined. If any state chooses not to enforce Rome Statute provisions from the first world just because it's convenient not to when this is a first world treaty, it shows the Rome Statute is dead letter and blows up that section of international law as being meaningless. Which again, Africa and most of the Global South would all be in favor of. I've stated elsewhere I think the International Criminal Court is a modern-day Kellogg-Briand Pact, but this might be the event that tips it over the edge and dismantle it if the chief backers choose to ignore the treaty they setup because it suits them in this circumstance, and I expect domestic blowback for any leader that chooses either one way or the other. Thus again why I think they'll just tell Netanyahu "you're not allowed to have your presidential plane land here and refuel". That stops them from being forced to arrest him, and they will still live up to the terms of the Rome Statute.
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LAKISYLVANIA
Lakigigar
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« Reply #7374 on: May 20, 2024, 11:02:46 AM »

The ICC can go piss up a rope.  Israel should immediately make clear that any attempt to enforce this will be treated as a declaration of war.  Hopefully, the rest of the world does the right thing and uses the warrants for Gallant and Netanyahu as toilet paper.

If Israel does that, the only right thing to do for any European nation is to declare war.

We will obey ICJ whether you like it or not. And if Israel threatens with war, war it shall be.
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