Israel-Gaza war

[GeneralMacArthur]

If progressives really wanted a ceasefire they would pass a resolution demanding that Hamas release the Jewish hostages or else military aid to Israel will be quadrupled.

What they actually want is for Israel to unilaterally surrender, because that will appease their frothing anti-semite base, many of whom are about one logical step away from literally becoming al-Qaeda.

[Wiswylfen]

If progressives really wanted a ceasefire they would pass a resolution demanding that Hamas release the Jewish hostages or else military aid to Israel will be quadrupled.

What they actually want is for Israel to unilaterally surrender, because that will appease their frothing anti-semite base, many of whom are about one logical step away from literally becoming al-Qaeda.

Yeah OK. Are you going to answer my question?

[GeneralMacArthur]

If progressives really wanted a ceasefire they would pass a resolution demanding that Hamas release the Jewish hostages or else military aid to Israel will be quadrupled.

What they actually want is for Israel to unilaterally surrender, because that will appease their frothing anti-semite base, many of whom are about one logical step away from literally becoming al-Qaeda.

Yeah OK. Are you going to answer my question?

Are you talking to the right person?  I've been out of this thread for a few pages and have no idea what question you're referring to.

[Wiswylfen]

If progressives really wanted a ceasefire they would pass a resolution demanding that Hamas release the Jewish hostages or else military aid to Israel will be quadrupled.

What they actually want is for Israel to unilaterally surrender, because that will appease their frothing anti-semite base, many of whom are about one logical step away from literally becoming al-Qaeda.

Yeah OK. Are you going to answer my question?

Are you talking to the right person?  I've been out of this thread for a few pages and have no idea what question you're referring to.

*class is debatable since in some cases the class is small enough that it could be argued that rather than being primarily composed of innocents, a sufficiently sizable share of the members of the class were able to coordinate towards an objective that could be considered hostile, thus making an attack on said class a civil conflict rather than a genocide.  For example, the French Revolution's class cleansing of the Bourbon aristocracy.

...

or the Camodian Genocide:
A) The Khmer Rouge made it publicly known that they intended to completely eliminate anyone who had, prior to year zero, belonged to: the wealthy, the intelligentsia, the capitalists, the landowners (all class groups), Christians (religious group), Vietnamese (ethnic group), etc.
B) The Khmer Rouge had complete control of Cambodia which gave them the means to accomplish this
C) The Khmer Rouge did in fact slaughter several million people while explicitly targeting said groups

Even setting aside that your excuse has nothing in itself to it, I might point out that there were several hundred thousand aristocrats. Pick one or the other.

Did the Khmer Rouge commit genocide? Of course they did. It cannot seriously be argued, however, that the murder of capitalists and landowners constituted that: people being killed does not in itself a genocide make, as you yourself admit. Their targeting of specific ethnic groups—more than just the Vietnamese, by the way—was genocidal; that was not. One moment you are complaining about the abuse of the term ‘genocide’, the next you are abusing it yourself. Again, which is it?

[GeneralMacArthur]

That question isn't even from this thread.  Please don't take your slap fights across multiple threads.  Keep them siloed.

[heatcharger]

Keep them siloed.

Interesting.

[Wiswylfen]

That question isn't even from this thread.  Please don't take your slap fights across multiple threads.  Keep them siloed.

Indeed it is not (just a directly-related one): a shame about that 'out of this thread' excuse. Anyway, a question that you are not able to answer adequately is not a slap fight--and even if it were, I do not think you are in any sort of position to be giving such advice.

[Red Velvet]

https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1747257400854200388

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1747257400854200388

Netanyahu’s government is filled with racist scumbags.  In other news, water is still wet.  All that and more at 11:00!

[Vosem]

Will be interesting to see which Dems have a conscious.

I'm guessing it'll be about 85-15. Van Hollen, Warren, Markey and Merkley are guaranteed yeas. A ceasefire polls extremely well so I think a few other Dems from more liberal states might surprise here.

Motion to table received 11 nays, one of which was from a Republican (Paul). 10 Democrats seem to think Israel might have a problem with its human rights record (Butler, Heinrich, Hirono, Lujan, Markey, Merkley, Sanders, Van Hollen, Warren, and Welch), which is absolutely abominable.

[Velasco]

Will be interesting to see which Dems have a conscious.

I'm guessing it'll be about 85-15. Van Hollen, Warren, Markey and Merkley are guaranteed yeas. A ceasefire polls extremely well so I think a few other Dems from more liberal states might surprise here.

Motion to table received 11 nays, one of which was from a Republican (Paul). 10 Democrats seem to think Israel might have a problem with its human rights record (Butler, Heinrich, Hirono, Lujan, Markey, Merkley, Sanders, Van Hollen, Warren, and Welch), which is absolutely abominable.

Israel has a serious problem with its human rights record. It's a long story that began 75 years ago and it's reaching its most dramatic moments with the ongoing massacre

[Velasco]

Hundreds of thousands are facing famine in Gaza. If there exists a deliberate intent to starve people to death, it is possible that someone is committing genocide

https://twitter.com/FranceskAlbs/status/1747298879693836586?t=0ykDBjLu1ysITVGqd4...

[Vosem]

Right; the aid is being packaged with fuel which is permitting Hamas to continue its war. We should not permit any authorities except the IDF and open, explicit collaborators to distribute any aid in the Gaza Strip, and it's horrible that we have an international community which is permitting shipments of aid to continue.

https://twitter.com/HeTows/status/1744613147028185501

Instead of just families of hostage victims, we should build the world where eight billion people, of all races and religions, block the path and prevent anything from entering not distributed by the IDF; where the figure of the useful fool who calls for supplies to be sent to the enemies of humanity has been completely eliminated from the human consciousness. And the happy thing is that I think that really is the world that is very slowly being built, but it's disappointing to be reminded that it's nowhere near built yet.

[Horus]

Schatz couldn't be there, but as expected he would've joined Bernie. He's been pretty good on I/P for awhile now.

https://twitter.com/prem_thakker/status/1747462518958612846?t=n62Js51RnEbfNv0mir...

[Blue3]

So in that article, Rick Scott says everyone in Gaza deserves to die…

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Right; the aid is being packaged with fuel which is permitting Hamas to continue its war. We should not permit any authorities except the IDF and open, explicit collaborators to distribute any aid in the Gaza Strip, and it's horrible that we have an international community which is permitting shipments of aid to continue.

https://twitter.com/HeTows/status/1744613147028185501

Instead of just families of hostage victims, we should build the world where eight billion people, of all races and religions, block the path and prevent anything from entering not distributed by the IDF; where the figure of the useful fool who calls for supplies to be sent to the enemies of humanity has been completely eliminated from the human consciousness. And the happy thing is that I think that really is the world that is very slowly being built, but it's disappointing to be reminded that it's nowhere near built yet.

Ideally the US should have shipped a bunch of food and medical supplies, but we did not, so they need whatever they can get.

[Meclazine for Israel]

No one wants to say it.

The Egyptian Border

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2MXUKZx09V/

[CumbrianLefty]

So in that article, Rick Scott says everyone in Gaza deserves to die…

Sounds like pretty much the standard GOP line these days.

A genuinely evil bunch of sociopaths, with remarkably few exceptions.

[Progressive Pessimist]

So in that article, Rick Scott says everyone in Gaza deserves to die…

Again, you can have all the problems with Biden and Democrats on this issue you want, but it'll be worse if Republicans gain power over dissatisfaction with Democrats on this.

[GoTfan]

Right; the aid is being packaged with fuel which is permitting Hamas to continue its war. We should not permit any authorities except the IDF and open, explicit collaborators to distribute any aid in the Gaza Strip, and it's horrible that we have an international community which is permitting shipments of aid to continue.

https://twitter.com/HeTows/status/1744613147028185501

Instead of just families of hostage victims, we should build the world where eight billion people, of all races and religions, block the path and prevent anything from entering not distributed by the IDF; where the figure of the useful fool who calls for supplies to be sent to the enemies of humanity has been completely eliminated from the human consciousness. And the happy thing is that I think that really is the world that is very slowly being built, but it's disappointing to be reminded that it's nowhere near built yet.

You are a uniquely evil person. I wonder what Gazan civilians did in your eyes to be forced to starve to death. Then again, it's not out of the ordinary for you.

[Horus]

Right; the aid is being packaged with fuel which is permitting Hamas to continue its war. We should not permit any authorities except the IDF and open, explicit collaborators to distribute any aid in the Gaza Strip, and it's horrible that we have an international community which is permitting shipments of aid to continue.

https://twitter.com/HeTows/status/1744613147028185501

Instead of just families of hostage victims, we should build the world where eight billion people, of all races and religions, block the path and prevent anything from entering not distributed by the IDF; where the figure of the useful fool who calls for supplies to be sent to the enemies of humanity has been completely eliminated from the human consciousness. And the happy thing is that I think that really is the world that is very slowly being built, but it's disappointing to be reminded that it's nowhere near built yet.

You are a uniquely evil person. I wonder what Gazan civilians did in your eyes to be forced to starve to death. Then again, it's not out of the ordinary for you.

I don't actually think he's evil. His Soviet upbringing mixed with Randian ethics has just led to a completely upside down view of existence that I will never understand. He really, really thinks he's doing the right thing. I can relate to almost every poster here in some way, but not Vosem. I find him very interesting, but I don't waste my time trying to have conversations with him as there's no point.

[patzer]

Could any of the people changing their avatars and/or usernames in support of Israel despite having no connection to it explain their reasoning for me? Doing it for Gaza makes some sense if you believe that Israel is committing a genocide (see also: the outpouring of support in the form of such changes for the Armenians over the past few years). But there’s neither that nor a ‘plucky little Belgium’ sort of thing going for it. Anyway: please?

Israel supporters would say that Israel was the victim of a genocidal attack on 10/7, so it’s the same logic.

Sure, that makes sense. At which point they would also be counting the Israeli intervention in Gaza as genocidal. So then it becomes a matter of supporting a government that is, by such logic, committing genocide against a people who did not (unless by such logic 9/11 was a legitimate military attack against legitimate military targets) (so "you started it!", if someone thought that was an excuse, wouldn't work anyway) during a war against a group that did. On second thought, I don't think it makes sense at all.

They don't count the Israeli intervention in Gaza as genocidal though.

I'm being generous and assuming consistency in their logic rather than it being an afterthought to supporting a particular 'team' because ??.

Hamas clearly states and acts on its intentions to kill Jews. Israel is fighting to eliminate Hamas whilst protecting civilian lives as much as possible. It's not even close to moral equivalency between the two. Accusing Israel of genocide against Palestinians is like accusing the WW2 Allies of genocide against Germans...

[GoTfan]

Could any of the people changing their avatars and/or usernames in support of Israel despite having no connection to it explain their reasoning for me? Doing it for Gaza makes some sense if you believe that Israel is committing a genocide (see also: the outpouring of support in the form of such changes for the Armenians over the past few years). But there’s neither that nor a ‘plucky little Belgium’ sort of thing going for it. Anyway: please?

Israel supporters would say that Israel was the victim of a genocidal attack on 10/7, so it’s the same logic.

Sure, that makes sense. At which point they would also be counting the Israeli intervention in Gaza as genocidal. So then it becomes a matter of supporting a government that is, by such logic, committing genocide against a people who did not (unless by such logic 9/11 was a legitimate military attack against legitimate military targets) (so "you started it!", if someone thought that was an excuse, wouldn't work anyway) during a war against a group that did. On second thought, I don't think it makes sense at all.

They don't count the Israeli intervention in Gaza as genocidal though.

I'm being generous and assuming consistency in their logic rather than it being an afterthought to supporting a particular 'team' because ??.

Hamas clearly states and acts on its intentions to kill Jews. Israel is fighting to eliminate Hamas whilst protecting civilian lives as much as possible. It's not even close to moral equivalency between the two. Accusing Israel of genocide against Palestinians is like accusing the WW2 Allies of genocide against Germans...

And then there's mainstream Israeli politicians calling for Gaza to be levelled. I believe the Israeli President recently said that there are no innocent people in Gaza.

That sort of rhetoric is quote alarming, as is the willingness of some people to dismiss them.

[patzer]

Could any of the people changing their avatars and/or usernames in support of Israel despite having no connection to it explain their reasoning for me? Doing it for Gaza makes some sense if you believe that Israel is committing a genocide (see also: the outpouring of support in the form of such changes for the Armenians over the past few years). But there’s neither that nor a ‘plucky little Belgium’ sort of thing going for it. Anyway: please?

Israel supporters would say that Israel was the victim of a genocidal attack on 10/7, so it’s the same logic.

Sure, that makes sense. At which point they would also be counting the Israeli intervention in Gaza as genocidal. So then it becomes a matter of supporting a government that is, by such logic, committing genocide against a people who did not (unless by such logic 9/11 was a legitimate military attack against legitimate military targets) (so "you started it!", if someone thought that was an excuse, wouldn't work anyway) during a war against a group that did. On second thought, I don't think it makes sense at all.

They don't count the Israeli intervention in Gaza as genocidal though.

I'm being generous and assuming consistency in their logic rather than it being an afterthought to supporting a particular 'team' because ??.

Hamas clearly states and acts on its intentions to kill Jews. Israel is fighting to eliminate Hamas whilst protecting civilian lives as much as possible. It's not even close to moral equivalency between the two. Accusing Israel of genocide against Palestinians is like accusing the WW2 Allies of genocide against Germans...

And then there's mainstream Israeli politicians calling for Gaza to be levelled. I believe the Israeli President recently said that there are no innocent people in Gaza.

That sort of rhetoric is quote alarming, as is the willingness of some people to dismiss them.

And some prominent Allied politicians in WW2 advocated for the Morgenthau Plan. Does that mean the war was an anti-German genocide?

[GoTfan]

Could any of the people changing their avatars and/or usernames in support of Israel despite having no connection to it explain their reasoning for me? Doing it for Gaza makes some sense if you believe that Israel is committing a genocide (see also: the outpouring of support in the form of such changes for the Armenians over the past few years). But there’s neither that nor a ‘plucky little Belgium’ sort of thing going for it. Anyway: please?

Israel supporters would say that Israel was the victim of a genocidal attack on 10/7, so it’s the same logic.

Sure, that makes sense. At which point they would also be counting the Israeli intervention in Gaza as genocidal. So then it becomes a matter of supporting a government that is, by such logic, committing genocide against a people who did not (unless by such logic 9/11 was a legitimate military attack against legitimate military targets) (so "you started it!", if someone thought that was an excuse, wouldn't work anyway) during a war against a group that did. On second thought, I don't think it makes sense at all.

They don't count the Israeli intervention in Gaza as genocidal though.

I'm being generous and assuming consistency in their logic rather than it being an afterthought to supporting a particular 'team' because ??.

Hamas clearly states and acts on its intentions to kill Jews. Israel is fighting to eliminate Hamas whilst protecting civilian lives as much as possible. It's not even close to moral equivalency between the two. Accusing Israel of genocide against Palestinians is like accusing the WW2 Allies of genocide against Germans...

And then there's mainstream Israeli politicians calling for Gaza to be levelled. I believe the Israeli President recently said that there are no innocent people in Gaza.

That sort of rhetoric is quote alarming, as is the willingness of some people to dismiss them.

And some prominent Allied politicians in WW2 advocated for the Morgenthau Plan. Does that mean the war was an anti-German genocide?

I never claimed it was a genocide. Merely pointed out that there has been some alarming rhetoric.