Israel-Gaza war

[Libertas Vel Mors]

What if the US had given them everything they wanted re: their enclave, and even kicked Americans out of their homes to do so, but those cartel members still used that as an opportunity to spend the next two decades raiding the US, and then escalating their raids to the point of invading the US and slaughtering and raping Americans, under the demand the US give the entire Southwest back to Mexico? Would you still say the same thing?

I'm sorry, are we in a universe where the blockade of Gaza and the occupation of and settlement-building in the West Bank ended?

The blockade of Gaza was ended until Hamas started firing rockets at Israel and murdering PA officials. Ask yourself why even Egypt closes its border with Hamas.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

https://twitter.com/YousefMunayyer/status/1710777795159228886?t=wajpLhMMxHwcSi0A...

At this point I really don't see why Mods aren't letting us have these discussions. If Likud is having this discussion then I think it is worth considering. I am a free speech absolutist, so I do have a much greater tolerance for this kind of stuff even in other fields, but given the circumstances I do think that in the coming days both Israel and certain Western factions may be considering/supporting options like this.

Are you actually out of your fücking mind? Why in Allah's name should genocide and ethnic cleansing EVER be considered an option?

1. I can't answer on the merits due to moderating policy for the latter. I will say for the former that genocide is always wrong because it takes innocent lives unnecessarily.

2. It should be discussed and freely debated because its going to be a major policy discussion in Israel and the West over the following days. Israel cannot allow Hamas to freely exist in the Gaza Strip after this, and it cannot afford to permanently occupy the Gaza Strip. That lives only one realistic option, as I believe many already recognize.

Rot in Jahannam you fücking bastard

Yeah I'm not the one cheering on murderers and savages.

What would you do if an enclave of cartel members (backed by 2 million people who enthusiastically supported the cartel members and molested the bodies of captured American women and American soldiers in the street) bombarded New York 24/7? Would you say "sorry, yeah, nothing the US can do"?

What if the US had given them everything they wanted re: their enclave, and even kicked Americans out of their homes to do so, but those cartel members still used that as an opportunity to spend the next two decades raiding the US, and then escalating their raids to the point of invading the US and slaughtering and raping Americans, under the demand the US give the entire Southwest back to Mexico? Would you still say the same thing?

Well for starters, I wouldn't be supporting fücking genocide, unlike you.

Genocide is immoral and wrong because it kills innocent people. I don't support genocide.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

https://twitter.com/YousefMunayyer/status/1710777795159228886?t=wajpLhMMxHwcSi0A...

At this point I really don't see why Mods aren't letting us have these discussions. If Likud is having this discussion then I think it is worth considering. I am a free speech absolutist, so I do have a much greater tolerance for this kind of stuff even in other fields, but given the circumstances I do think that in the coming days both Israel and certain Western factions may be considering/supporting options like this.

what the f#ck

are you people literally on crack?

[S019]

I have avoided this thread until now, but Haley/Ryan has forced me to jump in. I believe Israel should carry out an operation to destroy the infrastructure of Hamas in the Gaza Strip and eliminate them as a political and military force. This is what I believe to be a reasonable, albeit hawkish position. Haley/Ryan's call for ethnic cleansing is out of line, inappropriate, ghoulish, and if Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing, it would face global condemnation.

[Bacon King]

Genocide is immoral and wrong because it kills innocent people. I don't support genocide.

so reading between the lines here, you obviously support ethnic cleansing

you think that won't kill innocent people??

[Libertas Vel Mors]

I have avoided this thread until now, but Haley/Ryan has forced me to jump in. I believe Israel should carry out an operation to destroy the infrastructure of Hamas in the Gaza Strip and eliminate them as a political and military force. This is what I believe to be a reasonable, albeit hawkish position. Haley/Ryan's call for ethnic cleansing is out of line, inappropriate, ghoulish, and if Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing, it would face global condemnation.

How does Israel do that? If they do it once they pop up again. Do you want Israel to occupy Gaza forever?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

https://twitter.com/YousefMunayyer/status/1710777795159228886?t=wajpLhMMxHwcSi0A...

At this point I really don't see why Mods aren't letting us have these discussions. If Likud is having this discussion then I think it is worth considering. I am a free speech absolutist, so I do have a much greater tolerance for this kind of stuff even in other fields, but given the circumstances I do think that in the coming days both Israel and certain Western factions may be considering/supporting options like this.

Are you actually out of your fücking mind? Why in Allah's name should genocide and ethnic cleansing EVER be considered an option?

1. I can't answer on the merits due to moderating policy for the latter. I will say for the former that genocide is always wrong because it takes innocent lives unnecessarily.

2. It should be discussed and freely debated because its going to be a major policy discussion in Israel and the West over the following days. Israel cannot allow Hamas to freely exist in the Gaza Strip after this, and it cannot afford to permanently occupy the Gaza Strip. That lives only one realistic option, as I believe many already recognize.

you think ethnic cleansing of the Gaza Strip is going to be a "major policy discussion in Israel and the West over the following days"??

You are literally a sociopath

It already is a major policy discussion in Israel.

Not that this forum should tolerate it of course. It's time the mods send him the MATTROSE route.

Do what you want. If Snowstalker gets to defend East Germany and call for the destruction of Israel I think its fine to imply, but not state, that Israel should expel the Gaza strip population from Gaza.

I actually don't think Israel should be destroyed. At least, not in the sense you're thinking. Though a one-state binational solution is probably the best of feasible outcomes, and perhaps you consider that the same thing.

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

https://twitter.com/YousefMunayyer/status/1710777795159228886?t=wajpLhMMxHwcSi0A...

At this point I really don't see why Mods aren't letting us have these discussions. If Likud is having this discussion then I think it is worth considering. I am a free speech absolutist, so I do have a much greater tolerance for this kind of stuff even in other fields, but given the circumstances I do think that in the coming days both Israel and certain Western factions may be considering/supporting options like this.

Are you actually out of your fücking mind? Why in Allah's name should genocide and ethnic cleansing EVER be considered an option?

1. I can't answer on the merits due to moderating policy for the latter. I will say for the former that genocide is always wrong because it takes innocent lives unnecessarily.

2. It should be discussed and freely debated because its going to be a major policy discussion in Israel and the West over the following days. Israel cannot allow Hamas to freely exist in the Gaza Strip after this, and it cannot afford to permanently occupy the Gaza Strip. That lives only one realistic option, as I believe many already recognize.

Rot in Jahannam you fücking bastard

Yeah I'm not the one cheering on murderers and savages.

What would you do if an enclave of cartel members (backed by 2 million people who enthusiastically supported the cartel members and molested the bodies of captured American women and American soldiers in the street) bombarded New York 24/7? Would you say "sorry, yeah, nothing the US can do"?

What if the US had given them everything they wanted re: their enclave, and even kicked Americans out of their homes to do so, but those cartel members still used that as an opportunity to spend the next two decades raiding the US, and then escalating their raids to the point of invading the US and slaughtering and raping Americans, under the demand the US give the entire Southwest back to Mexico? Would you still say the same thing?

Well for starters, I wouldn't be supporting fücking genocide, unlike you.

Genocide is immoral and wrong because it kills innocent people. I don't support genocide.

And just what the hell do you think "expelling the Gaza strip population" would entail genius?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Ok, it is now the 8th of October. On the 7th, this thread had 655 posts, out of 1,850 for the entire forum. Roughly 34 percent. In percentage terms, this seems to be a forum record.
Not too shocking, but still impressive.
As for the world outside this little forum, may peace return sooner rather than later.

[Sestak]

Genocide is immoral and wrong because it kills innocent people. I don't support genocide.

so reading between the lines here, you obviously support ethnic cleansing

you think that won't kill innocent people??

Yeah, actually. Give the Gazans to Egypt. Pay for the refugee camps even but don't let Gaza continue to exist as a terrorist installation.

And if [when] Egypt says “no, f**k off”?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

https://twitter.com/YousefMunayyer/status/1710777795159228886?t=wajpLhMMxHwcSi0A...

At this point I really don't see why Mods aren't letting us have these discussions. If Likud is having this discussion then I think it is worth considering. I am a free speech absolutist, so I do have a much greater tolerance for this kind of stuff even in other fields, but given the circumstances I do think that in the coming days both Israel and certain Western factions may be considering/supporting options like this.

Are you actually out of your fücking mind? Why in Allah's name should genocide and ethnic cleansing EVER be considered an option?

1. I can't answer on the merits due to moderating policy for the latter. I will say for the former that genocide is always wrong because it takes innocent lives unnecessarily.

2. It should be discussed and freely debated because its going to be a major policy discussion in Israel and the West over the following days. Israel cannot allow Hamas to freely exist in the Gaza Strip after this, and it cannot afford to permanently occupy the Gaza Strip. That lives only one realistic option, as I believe many already recognize.

you think ethnic cleansing of the Gaza Strip is going to be a "major policy discussion in Israel and the West over the following days"??

You are literally a sociopath

It already is a major policy discussion in Israel.

Not that this forum should tolerate it of course. It's time the mods send him the MATTROSE route.

Do what you want. If Snowstalker gets to defend East Germany and call for the destruction of Israel I think its fine to imply, but not state, that Israel should expel the Gaza strip population from Gaza.

I actually don't think Israel should be destroyed. At least, not in the sense you're thinking. Though a one-state binational solution is probably the best of feasible outcomes, and perhaps you consider that the same thing.

You've spent all of today excusing the murder of Israelis, including women and children, which is incompatible with a binational state.

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

https://twitter.com/YousefMunayyer/status/1710777795159228886?t=wajpLhMMxHwcSi0A...

At this point I really don't see why Mods aren't letting us have these discussions. If Likud is having this discussion then I think it is worth considering. I am a free speech absolutist, so I do have a much greater tolerance for this kind of stuff even in other fields, but given the circumstances I do think that in the coming days both Israel and certain Western factions may be considering/supporting options like this.

Are you actually out of your fücking mind? Why in Allah's name should genocide and ethnic cleansing EVER be considered an option?

1. I can't answer on the merits due to moderating policy for the latter. I will say for the former that genocide is always wrong because it takes innocent lives unnecessarily.

2. It should be discussed and freely debated because its going to be a major policy discussion in Israel and the West over the following days. Israel cannot allow Hamas to freely exist in the Gaza Strip after this, and it cannot afford to permanently occupy the Gaza Strip. That lives only one realistic option, as I believe many already recognize.

Rot in Jahannam you fücking bastard

Yeah I'm not the one cheering on murderers and savages.

What would you do if an enclave of cartel members (backed by 2 million people who enthusiastically supported the cartel members and molested the bodies of captured American women and American soldiers in the street) bombarded New York 24/7? Would you say "sorry, yeah, nothing the US can do"?

What if the US had given them everything they wanted re: their enclave, and even kicked Americans out of their homes to do so, but those cartel members still used that as an opportunity to spend the next two decades raiding the US, and then escalating their raids to the point of invading the US and slaughtering and raping Americans, under the demand the US give the entire Southwest back to Mexico? Would you still say the same thing?

Well for starters, I wouldn't be supporting fücking genocide, unlike you.

Genocide is immoral and wrong because it kills innocent people. I don't support genocide.

And what the hell do you think "expelling the Gaza strip population" would entail genius?

Demolishing homes and expelling the population to Egypt, like what happened with Germans after WW2. Let Egypt take care of them, pay for the camps etc, so long as they are at least 100 miles from the Israeli border.

And if they refuse or Egypt refuses to take them in then what buddy? Slaughter them all?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Genocide is immoral and wrong because it kills innocent people. I don't support genocide.

so reading between the lines here, you obviously support ethnic cleansing

you think that won't kill innocent people??

Yeah, actually. Give the Gazans to Egypt. Pay for the refugee camps even but don't let Gaza continue to exist as a terrorist installation.

And if [when] Egypt says “no, f**k off”?

Give Egypt no choice. Move them past the Egyptian border and Egypt will not be able to say no without sparking an internal revolution.  

[S019]

I have avoided this thread until now, but Haley/Ryan has forced me to jump in. I believe Israel should carry out an operation to destroy the infrastructure of Hamas in the Gaza Strip and eliminate them as a political and military force. This is what I believe to be a reasonable, albeit hawkish position. Haley/Ryan's call for ethnic cleansing is out of line, inappropriate, ghoulish, and if Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing, it would face global condemnation.

How does Israel do that? If they do it once they pop up again. Do you want Israel to occupy Gaza forever?

I think there are various solutions, but assuming you don't want an occupation, the best thing to do is to give it to the PLO, which is run by the much moderate Fatah, which doesn't really engage in wide-scale terrorism. This would keep extremism down and also does not build resentment of Israel from a prolonged occupation. Also, with Hamas eliminated as a political force, the PLO would be able to hold elections again.

[Damocles]

Making this about religion and painting some false dichotomy between Judaism and Islam is not only intellectually dishonest, it's just plain wrong. Jews, Christians, and Muslims lived together in late Ottoman-era Palestine in relative peace.

What we're seeing now is the result of competing nationalisms coming to a head, underlined by disputes over land and property and competing promises made to different groups by colonial authorities. This isn't about "My god is better than your god," or, "Your people are swine and mine are some sort of heavenly demigods."

The posters here advocating for the wholesale deportation and/or slaughter of the Gazan Arabs ought to be ashamed of themselves. The same is true of those who deny the legitimacy of the state of Israel and also deny the brutality of the Holocaust.

Stop exploiting the suffering and pain of deprivation of millions to advance your disgusting fantasies of shooting up random Muslims with absolute impunity. Stop advocating for rocket attacks against schools and hospitals as a legitimate alternative to solving actual political issues.

Good grief.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

https://twitter.com/YousefMunayyer/status/1710777795159228886?t=wajpLhMMxHwcSi0A...

At this point I really don't see why Mods aren't letting us have these discussions. If Likud is having this discussion then I think it is worth considering. I am a free speech absolutist, so I do have a much greater tolerance for this kind of stuff even in other fields, but given the circumstances I do think that in the coming days both Israel and certain Western factions may be considering/supporting options like this.

Are you actually out of your fücking mind? Why in Allah's name should genocide and ethnic cleansing EVER be considered an option?

1. I can't answer on the merits due to moderating policy for the latter. I will say for the former that genocide is always wrong because it takes innocent lives unnecessarily.

2. It should be discussed and freely debated because its going to be a major policy discussion in Israel and the West over the following days. Israel cannot allow Hamas to freely exist in the Gaza Strip after this, and it cannot afford to permanently occupy the Gaza Strip. That lives only one realistic option, as I believe many already recognize.

Rot in Jahannam you fücking bastard

Yeah I'm not the one cheering on murderers and savages.

What would you do if an enclave of cartel members (backed by 2 million people who enthusiastically supported the cartel members and molested the bodies of captured American women and American soldiers in the street) bombarded New York 24/7? Would you say "sorry, yeah, nothing the US can do"?

What if the US had given them everything they wanted re: their enclave, and even kicked Americans out of their homes to do so, but those cartel members still used that as an opportunity to spend the next two decades raiding the US, and then escalating their raids to the point of invading the US and slaughtering and raping Americans, under the demand the US give the entire Southwest back to Mexico? Would you still say the same thing?

Well for starters, I wouldn't be supporting fücking genocide, unlike you.

Genocide is immoral and wrong because it kills innocent people. I don't support genocide.

And what the hell do you think "expelling the Gaza strip population" would entail genius?

Demolishing homes and expelling the population to Egypt, like what happened with Germans after WW2. Let Egypt take care of them, pay for the camps etc, so long as they are at least 100 miles from the Israeli border.

And if they refuse or Egypt refuses to take them in then what?

Egypt can't refuse. Once they're past the Egyptian border and Israel is offering to pay for the camps Egypt won't be able to simply let them starve.

[Aurelius2]

I have avoided this thread until now, but Haley/Ryan has forced me to jump in. I believe Israel should carry out an operation to destroy the infrastructure of Hamas in the Gaza Strip and eliminate them as a political and military force. This is what I believe to be a reasonable, albeit hawkish position. Haley/Ryan's call for ethnic cleansing is out of line, inappropriate, ghoulish, and if Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing, it would face global condemnation.

How does Israel do that? If they do it once they pop up again. Do you want Israel to occupy Gaza forever?

If that is what it takes, yes. Infinitely preferable to the scenario you outline. Israel is in a no-win position: they tried land for peace in Gaza and it clearly failed. This tragically suggests that some sort of indefinite occupation is probably the only acceptable outcome, unless they can manage to sufficiently bribe Egypt to foist Gaza off on them (which is not going to happen, it is pure wishful thinking).

[Libertas Vel Mors]

I have avoided this thread until now, but Haley/Ryan has forced me to jump in. I believe Israel should carry out an operation to destroy the infrastructure of Hamas in the Gaza Strip and eliminate them as a political and military force. This is what I believe to be a reasonable, albeit hawkish position. Haley/Ryan's call for ethnic cleansing is out of line, inappropriate, ghoulish, and if Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing, it would face global condemnation.

How does Israel do that? If they do it once they pop up again. Do you want Israel to occupy Gaza forever?

I think there are various solutions, but assuming you don't want an occupation, the best thing to do is to give it to the PLO, which is run by the much moderate Fatah, which doesn't really engage in wide-scale terrorism. This would keep extremism down and also does not build resentment of Israel from a prolonged occupation. Also, with Hamas eliminated as a political force, the PLO would be able to hold elections again.

The PLO can only maintain order in the West Bank because of Israeli troops and a much more moderate population. Gaza, which has been for decades built up as the single most radical hotbed of Middle Eastern Islamism, would be near impossible to hold even with Israeli troops (which brings us right back to the occupation point) and impossible without it.

[NOVA Green]

Russia meanwhile doing Russian s**t in an attempt to influence global public opinion after the Hamas attack on Israel:

Not saying we have tons of Putin simps floating around here, but those that are out there are pretty much all on my ignore list.

https://x.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1710814975294341473?s=20

[kwabbit]

If 300 Israelis people are dead (the number is actually higher) that is 3 9/11s. Imagine if 9/11 wasn't just a plane attack though, but an invasion that also resulted in at least 1500 hostages and Americans being raped and murdered, including children, in their own homes. Can anyone who does not simply want the Israelis to give up and die tell me with a straight face that in that analogy America/Israel should just sit back and drop a couple of bombs and treat it like any other terrorist attack? If not, then what should Israel do? Should it occupy the equivalent of 80 million people forever, losing more of its own lives in the process to police people who think it not only okay but morally good to molest Israelis in the street?

9/11 was 3000 deaths not 100. I don’t see how it could be three 9/11s unless you’re using percentage of the population affected.

[Aurelius2]

I have avoided this thread until now, but Haley/Ryan has forced me to jump in. I believe Israel should carry out an operation to destroy the infrastructure of Hamas in the Gaza Strip and eliminate them as a political and military force. This is what I believe to be a reasonable, albeit hawkish position. Haley/Ryan's call for ethnic cleansing is out of line, inappropriate, ghoulish, and if Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing, it would face global condemnation.

How does Israel do that? If they do it once they pop up again. Do you want Israel to occupy Gaza forever?

I think there are various solutions, but assuming you don't want an occupation, the best thing to do is to give it to the PLO, which is run by the much moderate Fatah, which doesn't really engage in wide-scale terrorism. This would keep extremism down and also does not build resentment of Israel from a prolonged occupation. Also, with Hamas eliminated as a political force, the PLO would be able to hold elections again.

I highly doubt that just "giving it" to Fatah is something that can be done. Hamas is deeply rooted in Gaza society at this point. There would likely be an extremely violent struggle if Israel attempted this.

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

https://twitter.com/YousefMunayyer/status/1710777795159228886?t=wajpLhMMxHwcSi0A...

At this point I really don't see why Mods aren't letting us have these discussions. If Likud is having this discussion then I think it is worth considering. I am a free speech absolutist, so I do have a much greater tolerance for this kind of stuff even in other fields, but given the circumstances I do think that in the coming days both Israel and certain Western factions may be considering/supporting options like this.

Are you actually out of your fücking mind? Why in Allah's name should genocide and ethnic cleansing EVER be considered an option?

1. I can't answer on the merits due to moderating policy for the latter. I will say for the former that genocide is always wrong because it takes innocent lives unnecessarily.

2. It should be discussed and freely debated because its going to be a major policy discussion in Israel and the West over the following days. Israel cannot allow Hamas to freely exist in the Gaza Strip after this, and it cannot afford to permanently occupy the Gaza Strip. That lives only one realistic option, as I believe many already recognize.

Rot in Jahannam you fücking bastard

Yeah I'm not the one cheering on murderers and savages.

What would you do if an enclave of cartel members (backed by 2 million people who enthusiastically supported the cartel members and molested the bodies of captured American women and American soldiers in the street) bombarded New York 24/7? Would you say "sorry, yeah, nothing the US can do"?

What if the US had given them everything they wanted re: their enclave, and even kicked Americans out of their homes to do so, but those cartel members still used that as an opportunity to spend the next two decades raiding the US, and then escalating their raids to the point of invading the US and slaughtering and raping Americans, under the demand the US give the entire Southwest back to Mexico? Would you still say the same thing?

Well for starters, I wouldn't be supporting fücking genocide, unlike you.

Genocide is immoral and wrong because it kills innocent people. I don't support genocide.

And what the hell do you think "expelling the Gaza strip population" would entail genius?

Demolishing homes and expelling the population to Egypt, like what happened with Germans after WW2. Let Egypt take care of them, pay for the camps etc, so long as they are at least 100 miles from the Israeli border.

And if they refuse or Egypt refuses to take them in then what?

Egypt can't refuse. Once they're past the Egyptian border and Israel is offering to pay for the camps Egypt won't be able to simply let them starve.

And do tell us how you're gonna make them get across the Egyptian border? I'm sure it's not gonna be sunshine and rainbows like you think it's gonna be.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

I have avoided this thread until now, but Haley/Ryan has forced me to jump in. I believe Israel should carry out an operation to destroy the infrastructure of Hamas in the Gaza Strip and eliminate them as a political and military force. This is what I believe to be a reasonable, albeit hawkish position. Haley/Ryan's call for ethnic cleansing is out of line, inappropriate, ghoulish, and if Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing, it would face global condemnation.

How does Israel do that? If they do it once they pop up again. Do you want Israel to occupy Gaza forever?

If that is what it takes, yes. Infinitely preferable to the scenario you outline. Israel is in a no-win position: they tried land for peace in Gaza and it clearly failed. This tragically suggests that some sort of indefinite occupation is probably the only acceptable outcome, unless they can manage to sufficiently bribe Egypt to foist Gaza off on them (which is not going to happen, it is pure wishful thinking).

That means hundreds of Israelis dead per year. There is not West Bank solution here because Gaza is so dense: Israel can't even just maintain troops at the edge of cities because Gaza is basically one urban conglameration.

I agree that Egypt won't voluntarily take them which is why Egypt can't be given a choice.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

If 300 Israelis people are dead (the number is actually higher) that is 3 9/11s. Imagine if 9/11 wasn't just a plane attack though, but an invasion that also resulted in at least 1500 hostages and Americans being raped and murdered, including children, in their own homes. Can anyone who does not simply want the Israelis to give up and die tell me with a straight face that in that analogy America/Israel should just sit back and drop a couple of bombs and treat it like any other terrorist attack? If not, then what should Israel do? Should it occupy the equivalent of 80 million people forever, losing more of its own lives in the process to police people who think it not only okay but morally good to molest Israelis in the street?

9/11 was 3000 deaths not 100. I don’t see how it could be three 9/11s unless you’re using percentage of the population affected.

%, yeah

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

The posters here advocating for the wholesale deportation and/or slaughter of the Gazan Arabs ought to be ashamed of themselves. The same is true of those who deny the legitimacy of the state of Israel and also deny the brutality of the Holocaust.

Has there been a single Holocaust denier or revisionist in this thread? Did I miss something?