Israel-Gaza war

[It’s so Joever]

Civilians do not deserve to be killed because of their political beliefs, no matter how repugnant they are. Not a hard concept. I have not minced words when it comes to people who support Russia, or those who sit on the sidelines, they don’t deserve to be killed.

The drunk guy who picks up a rattlesnake doesn't deserve to die either.

You made it pretty clear you thought they did deserve it.

Actions having consequences is a description, not a prescription.

Enough with this, you would act similarly if you were in their position. Their positions may be problematic but at least try to have some empathy. Not sympathy, I feel little sympathy for Israel right now, but at least understand where they are coming from for your own comprehension.

[pppolitics]

Hopefully we stay the hell out and don't give Israel a cent.

Hopefully we give Israel , air support

Israel isn't asking for any military support. This isn't Ukraine. Hamas is a massively outgunned, incredibly vicious enemy with no chance of victory but every chance of causing immense suffering. It's closer to 9/11 than Pearl Harbor or anything else, in that the attacked country will now take the gloves off.

The US is needed for exactly two things - regular Iron Dome replenishment, which is already assumed, and a firm grip on its UN veto pen. But this isn't their war and Israel doesn't want it to be.

The US has given Israel an abundance of military support over the years, including the F-35s, free of charge.

Yes, they are a great beta tester for US materiel. This is not nearly as one-sided a relationship as some make it out to be.

Ukraine would love to beta test F-35s and all of the US new weapons too.

[Horus]

LOL
https://twitter.com/DD_Geopolitics/status/1710627093225292144

What? I'm shocked. Jared Kushner told me this would never happen.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1710624899515994584?s=20

[Aurelius2]

Hopefully we stay the hell out and don't give Israel a cent.

Hopefully we give Israel , air support

Israel isn't asking for any military support. This isn't Ukraine. Hamas is a massively outgunned, incredibly vicious enemy with no chance of victory but every chance of causing immense suffering. It's closer to 9/11 than Pearl Harbor or anything else, in that the attacked country will now take the gloves off.

The US is needed for exactly two things - regular Iron Dome replenishment, which is already assumed, and a firm grip on its UN veto pen. But this isn't their war and Israel doesn't want it to be.

The US has given Israel an abundance of military support over the years, including the F-35s, free of charge.

Yes, they are a great beta tester for US materiel. This is not nearly as one-sided a relationship as some make it out to be.

Ukraine would love to beta test F-35s and all of the US new weapons too.

Total non sequitur.

[KaiserDave]

Terrified that this will accelerate existing right-wing, racist, trends in Israeli society. If Gantz had any guts (he doesn’t) he’d demand the removal of that thug Ben Gvir from the cabinet as a condition for a unity coalition.

[pppolitics]

Terrible, terrible, terrible. Hundreds of people have already died, and I fear the count will continue to skyrocket. And this was completely out of the blue, not like the Ukraine war at all. Hopefully it doesn't spill over into other countries.

When people are oppressed and have their land stolen from them, they tend to lash out.

This was entirely predictable.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1710730202353934338?s=20

[Horus]

Terrified that this will accelerate existing right-wing, racist, trends in Israeli society. If Gantz had any guts he’d demand the removal of that thug Ben Gvir from the cabinet as a condition for a unity coalition.

This is just speeding up the inevitable. Look at polls of under 35s there. Israel will be a full on theocracy by 2035, just like their neighbors.

[Aurelius2]

Terrible, terrible, terrible. Hundreds of people have already died, and I fear the count will continue to skyrocket. And this was completely out of the blue, not like the Ukraine war at all. Hopefully it doesn't spill over into other countries.

When people are oppressed and have their land stolen from them, they tend to lash out.

This was entirely predictable.

Are you aware that Hamas-ruled Gaza exists specifically because in 2005 Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza, including forcing Israeli settlers out at gunpoint, under the banner of 'land for peace'?

[Aurelius2]

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1710730202353934338?s=20

I have been very harsh on Omar, but I will give her credit here. Good for her, this is evidence she is growing toward a more mature understanding of the situation.

[Silent Hunter]

Terrible, terrible, terrible. Hundreds of people have already died, and I fear the count will continue to skyrocket. And this was completely out of the blue, not like the Ukraine war at all. Hopefully it doesn't spill over into other countries.

When people are oppressed and have their land stolen from them, they tend to lash out.

This was entirely predictable.

Then the oppressors, who now have an excuse, lash back even harder and the oppressed usually end up in a worse place. People have to be cleverer than that.

[pppolitics]

Terrible, terrible, terrible. Hundreds of people have already died, and I fear the count will continue to skyrocket. And this was completely out of the blue, not like the Ukraine war at all. Hopefully it doesn't spill over into other countries.

When people are oppressed and have their land stolen from them, they tend to lash out.

This was entirely predictable.

Are you aware that Hamas-ruled Gaza exists specifically because in 2005 Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza, including forcing Israeli settlers out at gunpoint, under the banner of 'land for peace'?

Israel has no right to Gaza in the first place.

[It’s so Joever]

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1710730202353934338?s=20

A true class act and this changes my opinion of her immensely. Even after being labeled anti semitic by everyone and now having nothing to lose supporting Hamas tbh, she still stands with the civilians who are caught in the middle of this regardless of nationality. A lot of people owe an apology, I know I do.

[Aurelius2]

Terrible, terrible, terrible. Hundreds of people have already died, and I fear the count will continue to skyrocket. And this was completely out of the blue, not like the Ukraine war at all. Hopefully it doesn't spill over into other countries.

When people are oppressed and have their land stolen from them, they tend to lash out.

This was entirely predictable.

Are you aware that Hamas-ruled Gaza exists specifically because in 2005 Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza, including forcing Israeli settlers out at gunpoint, under the banner of 'land for peace'?

Israel has no right to Gaza in the first place.

And they left Gaza. Your point?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It would be useful if this thread did not turn into a classic internet thread about ~The Conflict~ and be rendered as completely unreadable to non-psychopaths as something important and awful has happened and there are people who might wish to follow updates and to discuss things. Plenty of other places online where you can all defecate for attention.

[pppolitics]

Terrible, terrible, terrible. Hundreds of people have already died, and I fear the count will continue to skyrocket. And this was completely out of the blue, not like the Ukraine war at all. Hopefully it doesn't spill over into other countries.

When people are oppressed and have their land stolen from them, they tend to lash out.

This was entirely predictable.

Then the oppressors, who now have an excuse, lash back even harder and the oppressed usually end up in a worse place. People have to be cleverer than that.

What else could the oppressed do other than lash out?

There isn't much of a choice.

[HillGoose]

Al Jazeera's reporting on this is sickening, very concerned about how this will impact relations between Israel and the Gulf states after the recent thaw.

IMEC memorandum was signed less than a month ago, really do hope it's not DOA now.

[Upper Canada Tory]

Dumb move by Palestine but I’ll not shed fake tears for Israel considering all the history of this conflict either. That’s exactly what they were waiting and hoping for, some excuse to get into direct war without getting too bad of a PR in the West. Would honestly be wonderful if both sides could lose. We’re talking about an imperialist apartheid regime oppressing an Islamic theocracy that violates the human rights of minorities.

Naturally, the Western and White Imperialist countries will side with Israel because that’s who they identify with better and the Islamic Dictatorships will side with Palestine because it’s the one culturally closer to them as well.

India sides with Israel here. So there goes your bs global south alliance

Lmao it’s so funny how you dense you people are about geopolitics. Are you even aware of India-Pakistan tensions?

You keep having this automatic alignment “side” mentality inherited from Cold War without not even grasping the concept of current multilateralism.

You are the one who talks about the global north vs south like it is some second cold war, OSR may have the geopolitical understanding of a toddler but you are throwing crayons from your own crib.

On economic interests, we definitely have very direct opposing interests between the countries that want to emerge and the ones that want to protect their standing.

Doesn’t mean interests cannot align on multiple other matters, including well, Culture and Religion. Economic independence is one major thing but there are tons of others.

If anyone sees India position on Israel as “siding with the West” and NOT about “opening precedents in their dispute with Islamic Pakistan” then they’re just being ignorant or pretending to be. India is an independent country that deserves much more respect for its agency than the one you people give to it.

India actually supported Palestine for the first 4 decades after Indian independence, despite the India-Pakistan conflict. Close India-Israel ties are a relatively recent development. There has been a clear geopolitical shift with India where it sided more with the Soviets before (still non-aligned, but closer to the Soviets due to US support for Pakistan), but became closer to US and its allies (including Israel) after the Cold War. Of course, there is still an incredible amount of nuance here, where India will often side with adversaries of the US when it suits their interests.

[Aurelius2]

Al Jazeera's reporting on this is sickening, very concerned about how this will impact relations between Israel and the Gulf states after the recent thaw.

IMEC memorandum was signed less than a month ago, really do hope it's not DOA now.

Yeah, I just took a look at the Al Jazeera live feed and it's terribad.

[Aurelius2]

I have created a separate thread to argue about the conflict as it existed before today and its historical background. https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=566265.new#new

I have played a part in the f**kification of this thread by engaging with certain people and I will now try to do my part in undoing this by making any further replies over there instead of here.

[Red Velvet]

Dumb move by Palestine but I’ll not shed fake tears for Israel considering all the history of this conflict either. That’s exactly what they were waiting and hoping for, some excuse to get into direct war without getting too bad of a PR in the West. Would honestly be wonderful if both sides could lose. We’re talking about an imperialist apartheid regime oppressing an Islamic theocracy that violates the human rights of minorities.

Naturally, the Western and White Imperialist countries will side with Israel because that’s who they identify with better and the Islamic Dictatorships will side with Palestine because it’s the one culturally closer to them as well.

India sides with Israel here. So there goes your bs global south alliance

Lmao it’s so funny how you dense you people are about geopolitics. Are you even aware of India-Pakistan tensions?

You keep having this automatic alignment “side” mentality inherited from Cold War without not even grasping the concept of current multilateralism.

You are the one who talks about the global north vs south like it is some second cold war, OSR may have the geopolitical understanding of a toddler but you are throwing crayons from your own crib.

On economic interests, we definitely have very direct opposing interests between the countries that want to emerge and the ones that want to protect their standing.

Doesn’t mean interests cannot align on multiple other matters, including well, Culture and Religion. Economic independence is one major thing but there are tons of others.

If anyone sees India position on Israel as “siding with the West” and NOT about “opening precedents in their dispute with Islamic Pakistan” then they’re just being ignorant or pretending to be. India is an independent country that deserves much more respect for its agency than the one you people give to it.

India actually supported Palestine for the first 4 decades after Indian independence, despite the India-Pakistan conflict. Close India-Israel ties are a relatively recent development. There has been a clear geopolitical shift with India where it sided more with the Soviets before (still non-aligned, but closer to the Soviets due to US support for Pakistan), but became closer to US and its allies (including Israel) after the Cold War. Of course, there is still an incredible amount of nuance here, where India will often side with adversaries of the US when it suits their interests.

The mistake that the westerners here keep doing IMO is trying to fit India into one of two poles when THAT’S NOT HOW THEY EVEN SEE THEMSELVES ANYMORE.

Like, India sees itself as a “pole” of its own and so do an increasing lot of countries that weren’t protagonists of global geopolitics too. Increasingly more places don’t see themselves as being delegated to a supporting role at all.

Westerners don’t really realize or are able to grasp from the outside how the mentality and ambitions for a whole lot of the Global South has changed since the Cold War, so they simplify current multipolarity through an bipolar order logics inherited from Cold War.

It’s a multipolar world now and it’s time people accept it. People outside the West - mostly USAians are guilty of this fallacy - don’t even see things in the terms of “siding with US” or “siding with China” anyway.

[Not Me, Us]

This is a terrible tragedy, both for the Israelis killed by the Hamas attack and especially for all innocent Palestinians who will no doubt be in IDF prison camps by the end of the month, if the regime even allows them to live that long.

[Ferguson97]

Actions having consequences is a description, not a prescription.

What actions did the Israeli civilians take?

[pppolitics]

Actions having consequences is a description, not a prescription.

What actions did the Israeli civilians take?

...do you mean other than illegally occupying Palestinian land?