Israel-Gaza war

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

A fundamental and very disturbing question remains unanswered. How did Hamas achieve surprise against a security state possessing the most advanced intelligence gathering methods anywhere in the world? This was a very well planned operation involving thousands of fighters. And yet the IDF was caught completely unprepared, and were slow to response in the first few critical hours of the war. Was this failure systematic or did the man on the very top ignore some warnings?

Because the IDF is more interested in brutalizing teenagers and grandmothers in the West Bank. Next question.

[Bilardista]

I have a very superficial knowledge on the conflict, so i have a few questions:

Does Hamas have a presence on the West Bank or is it only limited to Gaza?

If Hamas is such a threat, what stoped Israel from invading the strip and toppling the Gazan administration? They've conducted strikes and bombings there before, would a full on invasion be considered risky or undesirable in some way?

I know Hamas has support in Iran and Lebanon, but elsewere in the region is it seen as a legitimate authority of the palestinian organizations, or is Fatah the prefered one? Would anyone object to Hamas being ousted?

[Horus]

A fundamental and very disturbing question remains unanswered. How did Hamas achieve surprise against a security state possessing the most advanced intelligence gathering methods anywhere in the world? This was a very well planned operation involving thousands of fighters. And yet the IDF was caught completely unprepared, and were slow to response in the first few critical hours of the war. Was this failure systematic or did the man on the very top ignore some warnings?

Either Bibi got caught slipping, or he saw how badly Likud was doing in the polls and, well.. I believe Netanyahu is a genuinely evil man and I'll leave it at that.

[It’s so Joever]

Gaza has sealed her fate. It was already likely to be done for long term but this is the nail in the coffin.

[Red Velvet]

Dumb move by Palestine but I’ll not shed fake tears for Israel considering all the history of this conflict either. That’s exactly what they were waiting and hoping for, some excuse to get into direct war without getting too bad of a PR in the West. Would honestly be wonderful if both sides could lose. We’re talking about an imperialist apartheid regime oppressing an Islamic theocracy that violates the human rights of minorities.

Naturally, the Western and White Imperialist countries will side with Israel because that’s who they identify with better and the Islamic Dictatorships will side with Palestine because it’s the one culturally closer to them as well.

[The Mikado]

I have a very superficial knowledge on the conflict, so i have a few questions:

Does Hamas have a presence on the West Bank or is it only limited to Gaza?

If Hamas is such a threat, what stoped Israel from invading the strip and toppling the Gazan administration? They've conducted strikes and bombings there before, would a full on invasion be considered risky or undesirable in some way?

I know Hamas has support in Iran and Lebanon, but elsewere in the region is it seen as a legitimate authority of the palestinian organizations, or is Fatah the prefered one? Would anyone object to Hamas being ousted?

2005 Israel withdrew from Gaza.

2006 Palestine has first and final elections. Hamas does well in Gaza, Fatah, traditional leaders and party of current Palestinian President Abbas and ex-Palestinian President Arafat wins in West Bank. Later in 2006 Hamas seizes control of Gaza and effectively secedes from Palestinian Authority leadership, running a separate regime.

Since 2006, negotiations between Israel and Palestinian Authority have been rocky in part because the Palestinian Authority can't speak for Hamas and Gaza. Hard liners on both sides benefit from violence and the regular cycle over the last 17 years of "Hamas attacks out of Gaza, Israel retaliates" is good for the Israeli right and far right in terms of making security the main issue and good for Hamas because they recruit off of blown up buildings and such in Gaza and garner international sympathy. Meanwhile settlement continues to creep into West Bank and people conflate the mess in the West Bank with the different mess in Gaza.

Basically the entire world accepts the government of the Palestinians as the Palestinian Authority, which is run by Fatah. The only people who accept Hamas as legitimate representatives of the Palestinian people are people like Laki. Hamas has never accepted going back into the Palestinian Authority and is terrified of the idea of another Palestinian election, which is why they haven't participated in one since 2006, because they know Fatah will win and would have a claim to regain control of Gaza.

[Hnv1]

Rumours circulating are talking about 500 murdered civilians today.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Dumb move by Palestine but I’ll not shed fake tears for Israel considering all the history of this conflict either. That’s exactly what they were waiting and hoping for, some excuse to get into direct war without getting too bad of a PR in the West. Would honestly be wonderful if both sides could lose. We’re talking about an imperialist apartheid regime oppressing an Islamic theocracy that violates the human rights of minorities.

Naturally, the Western and White Imperialist countries will side with Israel because that’s who they identify with better and the Islamic Dictatorships will side with Palestine because it’s the one culturally closer to them as well.

Yeah, that's exactly what we expected from you. If only there was some unifying factory between Ukraine and Israel that would explain this at the moment.

[Horus]

Dumb move by Palestine but I’ll not shed fake tears for Israel considering all the history of this conflict either. That’s exactly what they were waiting and hoping for, some excuse to get into direct war without getting too bad of a PR in the West. Would honestly be wonderful if both sides could lose. We’re talking about an imperialist apartheid regime oppressing an Islamic theocracy that violates the human rights of minorities.

Naturally, the Western and White Imperialist countries will side with Israel because that’s who they identify with better and the Islamic Dictatorships will side with Palestine because it’s the one culturally closer to them as well.

Yeah, that's exactly what we expected from you. If only there was some unifying factory between Ukraine and Israel that would explain this at the moment.

Israeli support for Ukraine has been very tepid. Weren't they at one point floated as a neutral location for peace talks?

[It’s so Joever]

Let’s be clear here by the way, Hamas is an insidious terrorist organization that seeks the removal of the Israeli people from their homeland.

Now let’s be just as clear, a large chunk of the Israeli Knesset  is a terrorist organization which seeks the removal of the Palestinian people.

There was once a point when Israel was the obvious “good guy” and for a while at the very least they were the “lesser of two evils”
However with this recent government and the rapid expansionism of settlers/evictions of Palestinians, it’s clear that the dynamic has changed.

American foreign policy should be calculated and based on who we benefit most from, and that would be Israel. If this were an Iran Israeli proxy conflict, that may be different, but Palestine has dwindling allies anyways and we may as well throw our support behind the likely winner. Unfortunately that winner also happens to be undergoing a demographic time bomb with radical extremists having the highest birth rates. We must be careful about how we deal with this future state as well, but that is a problem for tomorrow.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Dumb move by Palestine but I’ll not shed fake tears for Israel considering all the history of this conflict either. That’s exactly what they were waiting and hoping for, some excuse to get into direct war without getting too bad of a PR in the West. Would honestly be wonderful if both sides could lose. We’re talking about an imperialist apartheid regime oppressing an Islamic theocracy that violates the human rights of minorities.

Naturally, the Western and White Imperialist countries will side with Israel because that’s who they identify with better and the Islamic Dictatorships will side with Palestine because it’s the one culturally closer to them as well.

Yeah, that's exactly what we expected from you. If only there was some unifying factory between Ukraine and Israel that would explain this at the moment.

Israeli support for Ukraine has been very tepid. Weren't they at one point floated as a neutral location for peace talks?

Yes. And they did host talks more than once I think.
To be clear, I do not think any less of Israel because of its stance on the war. But it is what it is. They have their own interests to look after. But enough about Russia-Ukraine, that is all.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

I have a very superficial knowledge on the conflict, so i have a few questions:

Does Hamas have a presence on the West Bank or is it only limited to Gaza?

If Hamas is such a threat, what stoped Israel from invading the strip and toppling the Gazan administration? They've conducted strikes and bombings there before, would a full on invasion be considered risky or undesirable in some way?

I know Hamas has support in Iran and Lebanon, but elsewere in the region is it seen as a legitimate authority of the palestinian organizations, or is Fatah the prefered one? Would anyone object to Hamas being ousted?

2005 Israel withdrew from Gaza.

2006 Palestine has first and final elections. Hamas does well in Gaza, Fatah, traditional leaders and party of current Palestinian President Abbas and ex-Palestinian President Arafat wins in West Bank. Later in 2006 Hamas seizes control of Gaza and effectively secedes from Palestinian Authority leadership, running a separate regime.

Since 2006, negotiations between Israel and Palestinian Authority have been rocky in part because the Palestinian Authority can't speak for Hamas and Gaza. Hard liners on both sides benefit from violence and the regular cycle over the last 17 years of "Hamas attacks out of Gaza, Israel retaliates" is good for the Israeli right and far right in terms of making security the main issue and good for Hamas because they recruit off of blown up buildings and such in Gaza and garner international sympathy. Meanwhile settlement continues to creep into West Bank and people conflate the mess in the West Bank with the different mess in Gaza.

Basically the entire world accepts the government of the Palestinians as the Palestinian Authority, which is run by Fatah. The only people who accept Hamas as legitimate representatives of the Palestinian people are people like Laki. Hamas has never accepted going back into the Palestinian Authority and is terrified of the idea of another Palestinian election, which is why they haven't participated in one since 2006, because they know Fatah will win and would have a claim to regain control of Gaza.

The opposite--Hamas, and I have no love for them, would win overwhelmingly. The PA and Fatah are seen as Vichy puppets.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Dumb move by Palestine but I’ll not shed fake tears for Israel considering all the history of this conflict either. That’s exactly what they were waiting and hoping for, some excuse to get into direct war without getting too bad of a PR in the West. Would honestly be wonderful if both sides could lose. We’re talking about an imperialist apartheid regime oppressing an Islamic theocracy that violates the human rights of minorities.

Naturally, the Western and White Imperialist countries will side with Israel because that’s who they identify with better and the Islamic Dictatorships will side with Palestine because it’s the one culturally closer to them as well.

Yeah, that's exactly what we expected from you. If only there was some unifying factory between Ukraine and Israel that would explain this at the moment.

Israeli support for Ukraine has been very tepid. Weren't they at one point floated as a neutral location for peace talks?

Irrelevant, but Israel's approach to Ukraine under Bennett/Lapid (trying not to anger Russia, while providing non-lethal aid and taking in refugees) was very different to what it's generally doing under Netanyahu.

Either way, if Russia was even tangentially involved here, as seems likely, that's probably going to change.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Civilians who survived the attack on a big outdoor party tell of terrorists shooting at people who were raising their hands and begging for mercy. If some tankies here want to know what not to shed any tears for

[It’s so Joever]

Dumb move by Palestine but I’ll not shed fake tears for Israel considering all the history of this conflict either. That’s exactly what they were waiting and hoping for, some excuse to get into direct war without getting too bad of a PR in the West. Would honestly be wonderful if both sides could lose. We’re talking about an imperialist apartheid regime oppressing an Islamic theocracy that violates the human rights of minorities.

Naturally, the Western and White Imperialist countries will side with Israel because that’s who they identify with better and the Islamic Dictatorships will side with Palestine because it’s the one culturally closer to them as well.

Yeah, that's exactly what we expected from you. If only there was some unifying factory between Ukraine and Israel that would explain this at the moment.

Israeli support for Ukraine has been very tepid. Weren't they at one point floated as a neutral location for peace talks?

Israel has been downright traitorous regarding Ukraine, but this should not be shocking, the Netanyahu government supports illegal invasions.

[Estrella]

I have a very superficial knowledge on the conflict, so i have a few questions:

Does Hamas have a presence on the West Bank or is it only limited to Gaza?

There's very little Hamas presence in the West Bank, but their regime in Gaza is basically totalitarian and there's no chance of removing them without a military intervention.

If Hamas is such a threat, what stoped Israel from invading the strip and toppling the Gazan administration? They've conducted strikes and bombings there before, would a full on invasion be considered risky or undesirable in some way?

Israel has gotten very comfortable with firing a missile or ten without actually engaging in any serious fighting on the ground. The entirety of Gaza strip is covered by a dense, chaotic city. They could invade and eventually secure it, but it would be a Stalingrad level of bloody door-to-door urban combat with the sort of casualties Israel hasn't experienced since, well, today fifty years ago.

I know Hamas has support in Iran and Lebanon, but elsewere in the region is it seen as a legitimate authority of the palestinian organizations, or is Fatah the prefered one? Would anyone object to Hamas being ousted?

Turkey and Qatar seem to be pretty close to Hamas. Turkey, it seems, supports them mostly diplomatically, but Qatar gave them billions of dollars and probably helps them more than Iran and Hezbollah. In the past, China was (very vaguely) diplomatically supportive too.

[Aurelius2]

Dumb move by Palestine but I’ll not shed fake tears for Israel considering all the history of this conflict either. That’s exactly what they were waiting and hoping for, some excuse to get into direct war without getting too bad of a PR in the West. Would honestly be wonderful if both sides could lose. We’re talking about an imperialist apartheid regime oppressing an Islamic theocracy that violates the human rights of minorities.

Naturally, the Western and White Imperialist countries will side with Israel because that’s who they identify with better and the Islamic Dictatorships will side with Palestine because it’s the one culturally closer to them as well.

Yeah, that's exactly what we expected from you. If only there was some unifying factory between Ukraine and Israel that would explain this at the moment.

Israeli support for Ukraine has been very tepid. Weren't they at one point floated as a neutral location for peace talks?

Israel has been downright traitorous regarding Ukraine, but this should not be shocking, the Netanyahu government supports illegal invasions.

Traitorous against who, themselves?

[The Mikado]

I have a very superficial knowledge on the conflict, so i have a few questions:

Does Hamas have a presence on the West Bank or is it only limited to Gaza?

If Hamas is such a threat, what stoped Israel from invading the strip and toppling the Gazan administration? They've conducted strikes and bombings there before, would a full on invasion be considered risky or undesirable in some way?

I know Hamas has support in Iran and Lebanon, but elsewere in the region is it seen as a legitimate authority of the palestinian organizations, or is Fatah the prefered one? Would anyone object to Hamas being ousted?

2005 Israel withdrew from Gaza.

2006 Palestine has first and final elections. Hamas does well in Gaza, Fatah, traditional leaders and party of current Palestinian President Abbas and ex-Palestinian President Arafat wins in West Bank. Later in 2006 Hamas seizes control of Gaza and effectively secedes from Palestinian Authority leadership, running a separate regime.

Since 2006, negotiations between Israel and Palestinian Authority have been rocky in part because the Palestinian Authority can't speak for Hamas and Gaza. Hard liners on both sides benefit from violence and the regular cycle over the last 17 years of "Hamas attacks out of Gaza, Israel retaliates" is good for the Israeli right and far right in terms of making security the main issue and good for Hamas because they recruit off of blown up buildings and such in Gaza and garner international sympathy. Meanwhile settlement continues to creep into West Bank and people conflate the mess in the West Bank with the different mess in Gaza.

Basically the entire world accepts the government of the Palestinians as the Palestinian Authority, which is run by Fatah. The only people who accept Hamas as legitimate representatives of the Palestinian people are people like Laki. Hamas has never accepted going back into the Palestinian Authority and is terrified of the idea of another Palestinian election, which is why they haven't participated in one since 2006, because they know Fatah will win and would have a claim to regain control of Gaza.

The opposite--Hamas, and I have no love for them, would win overwhelmingly. The PA and Fatah are seen as Vichy puppets.

Ah yes, the reason Hamas pulled out of the 2021 elections Abbas and the Fatah scheduled, because they thought they'd win by too much.

[Horus]

Dumb move by Palestine but I’ll not shed fake tears for Israel considering all the history of this conflict either. That’s exactly what they were waiting and hoping for, some excuse to get into direct war without getting too bad of a PR in the West. Would honestly be wonderful if both sides could lose. We’re talking about an imperialist apartheid regime oppressing an Islamic theocracy that violates the human rights of minorities.

Naturally, the Western and White Imperialist countries will side with Israel because that’s who they identify with better and the Islamic Dictatorships will side with Palestine because it’s the one culturally closer to them as well.

Yeah, that's exactly what we expected from you. If only there was some unifying factory between Ukraine and Israel that would explain this at the moment.

Israeli support for Ukraine has been very tepid. Weren't they at one point floated as a neutral location for peace talks?

Israel has been downright traitorous regarding Ukraine, but this should not be shocking, the Netanyahu government supports illegal invasions.

All the assistance, support and bailouts we give them and they still can't stand with Ukraine in perhaps the most obvious good vs. evil conflict since 1945. It's pathetic, and it's a big part of why I don't care to help them now.

[It’s so Joever]

Dumb move by Palestine but I’ll not shed fake tears for Israel considering all the history of this conflict either. That’s exactly what they were waiting and hoping for, some excuse to get into direct war without getting too bad of a PR in the West. Would honestly be wonderful if both sides could lose. We’re talking about an imperialist apartheid regime oppressing an Islamic theocracy that violates the human rights of minorities.

Naturally, the Western and White Imperialist countries will side with Israel because that’s who they identify with better and the Islamic Dictatorships will side with Palestine because it’s the one culturally closer to them as well.

Yeah, that's exactly what we expected from you. If only there was some unifying factory between Ukraine and Israel that would explain this at the moment.

Israeli support for Ukraine has been very tepid. Weren't they at one point floated as a neutral location for peace talks?

Israel has been downright traitorous regarding Ukraine, but this should not be shocking, the Netanyahu government supports illegal invasions.

Traitorous against who, themselves?

Against us, the reason they exist. I am glad Israel exists, but they owe us.

[Aurelius2]

Civilians who survived the attack on a big outdoor party tell of terrorists shooting at people who were raising their hands and begging for mercy. If some tankies here want to know what not to shed any tears for

The same ones who held a picnic and cheered on airstrikes on Gaza last time this happened, or different ones?

This is a piss-poor false equivalency, because those airstrikes were specifically on terrorist equipment and facilities used to launch the all-too-regular airstrikes that people in Sderot have only 15 seconds to reach shelter from.

Anyway I'm pretty sure it's different groups of people.

Oh, and for all the people in this thread trying to make this into some race conflict between evil white JewishZionist oppressors and poor opressed brown Palestinians, here is a picture of Israeli Jews at the aforementioned hilltop in Sderot.

[KaiserDave]

https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1710708371593052456

[LAKISYLVANIA]

I have a very superficial knowledge on the conflict, so i have a few questions:

Does Hamas have a presence on the West Bank or is it only limited to Gaza?

There's very little Hamas presence in the West Bank, but their regime in Gaza is basically totalitarian and there's no chance of removing them without a military intervention.

That's what happens if you dont give them a contiguous border

[OSR stands with Israel]

Dumb move by Palestine but I’ll not shed fake tears for Israel considering all the history of this conflict either. That’s exactly what they were waiting and hoping for, some excuse to get into direct war without getting too bad of a PR in the West. Would honestly be wonderful if both sides could lose. We’re talking about an imperialist apartheid regime oppressing an Islamic theocracy that violates the human rights of minorities.

Naturally, the Western and White Imperialist countries will side with Israel because that’s who they identify with better and the Islamic Dictatorships will side with Palestine because it’s the one culturally closer to them as well.

India sides with Israel here. So there goes your bs global south alliance

[Estrella]

Dumb move by Palestine but I’ll not shed fake tears for Israel considering all the history of this conflict either. That’s exactly what they were waiting and hoping for, some excuse to get into direct war without getting too bad of a PR in the West. Would honestly be wonderful if both sides could lose. We’re talking about an imperialist apartheid regime oppressing an Islamic theocracy that violates the human rights of minorities.

Naturally, the Western and White Imperialist countries will side with Israel because that’s who they identify with better and the Islamic Dictatorships will side with Palestine because it’s the one culturally closer to them as well.

India sides with Israel here. So there goes your bs global south alliance

But muh BRICS BRCS