NY: Trump on Trial!

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1642570273739112448

[Torie]

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1642570273739112448

The next issue is why did Cy Vance allow Barr to deflect an investigation if he thought it was meritorious? I notice that Cy does not say that Barr told him that the local DA pursuing it would interfere in the DOJ's investigation. If Barr had said that, and there was no investigation, then Barr was dissembling. If.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

The NYT weighs in with an opinion piece by Ankush Khardori, "Trump’s Prosecution Has Set a Dangerous Precedent"

Yet (with the sort equivocation and omissions that are typical of the NYT's coverage of Mr. Trump and his party's many abuses), in over 1300 words, Mr. Khardori doesn't manage to mention what journalist Marcy Wheeler sums up in a single tweet:

The Bragg indictment of Trump may or may not prove to have merit. But it is all built on the fact that Trump not only didn't sell his peanut farm when he chose to run for President, but he continued to do corrupt things with his peanut farm the entire time he was President.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

What hurts RS is that they in 22 changed some states around including NY H races and CA and WI, OH and NC S with Hurricane IAN DeSantis did such a good job so it rubbed off on Vance, Johnson and Budd and of course DeSantis and Rubio

This indictment is so detriment to Rs us that which they could of net the S and added more seats in the H reverses that and D's can net a seat or two in the S and regain the H by 5/30 seats we need a cushion in the H and S not just a bear majority

Hurricane IAN didn't just benefit FL RS DeWine won by 25 and he was leading by 6 and Vance was losing before IAN that's why there was t a red wave D's were gonna net a Secularist Filibuster proof Trifecta already but IAN STOPPED IT, NOW THE INDICTMENTS COMING IT BENEFITS DS TAKE HUNTER LAPTOP TOTALLY OFF THE TABLE FOR RS, Harris is Veep anyways and can assume the Prez at any point

That's why it's a 304 map with wave insurance we can sweep the Southern Govs in 23 especially Presley and Beshear

[Yoda]

The legal standard is not whether the expense was meant to influence the campaign. The legal standard is whether the expense was created by the campaign and would have been objectively paid irrespective of the campaign. You might want a different standard (eg - “I don’t care about the suit analogy”), but what you want isn’t a consideration

The legal standard is would the payment have been made but for the campaign. To me it is clear it would not have been. That it was intended to influence the campaign is part of why I conclude that. The other part of why I conclude that is he turned he down before.

So if the $130k payment is, as you claim, a campaign finance contribution, then would Trump have been within his rights to use campaign donor funds to issue the payment (as opposed to his personal funds)? That means money that was given to him by his supporters and fundraisers - do you think Trump could have legally used that money to pay the $130k?

I'm not sure the payment is legal at all without reporting it somewhere, even if there was no campaign. For example, you can't give somebody more than $16,000 in a year as a gift without reporting it to the IRS. There could been multiple laws he's violated here. So not an expert on this, but no I don't think he could have paid it out of campaign donor funds and done no reporting on the payment.

This is an extremely good point. Putting aside the campaign expense vs. not campaign expense argument for a moment, trump clearly lied about and attempted to conceal what these funds were for, and who they were paid by, by fraudulently listing them as legal fees and having his attorney, Michael Cohen, pay them for him while he reimbursed him. It's pretty easy to see this being viewed as fraud at a minimum.

They've been investigating the case for 5-6 years, his records have been put under a microscope (and Trump Organization has already been subject to civil & criminal litigation), legal pundits have strained their heads for years analyzing what charges he may or may not have committed

If it's sooo easy to see this as fraud "at a minimum" (as you are now claiming), there would have been some indications of those charges by now. Yet no one is talking about those sort of charges (except you); no one has reported that the IRS or NYS Department of Taxation is / was investigating him . Apparently, you know more than anyone, including the experts, about tax and fraud laws

You really seem to be struggling with the concept that while trump was President he was essentially immune from prosecution b/c of that (ridiculous) DOJ memo, despite the fact that numerous posters have explained that to you in this thread. 5-6 years ago, trump was President. This isn't hard.

In case you weren't aware, the trump organization was just recently found guilty in a court of law of multiple counts of tax fraud, which you rather bizarrely left of your reply. The CFO even made a plea deal and testified. It was pretty big in the news and pretty impossible to miss unless you only watch Fox Entertainment. Who heads the trump organization? Hmm, I wonder.....

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Can they even charge Trump with anything from 2016? In NY, the statute of limitations is at most 5 years for most crimes.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Can they even charge Trump with anything from 2016? In NY, the statute of limitations is at most 5 years for most crimes.

I believe it's a novel legal theory that because Trump was unable to be charged during those four years, that time doesn't count. They're also attempting to convert it into a federal felony.

To say I'm not optimistic about this case would be putting it lightly. Alvin Bragg isn't going to get Donald Trump, Jack Smith is.

[emailking]

They're not saying it's delayed because he was President. He could have been charged under the law. It's a 5 year statue of limitations on felonies in New York. The last payment to Cohen was in late 2017 but the bookkeeping for it was in 2018 which starts the 5 year clock.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

The hypocrisy of Trump is outrageous he said that Hilary shouldn't be elected Prez she stayed with Bill Clinton and he cheated on her and Trump got caught with an adult film star, especially from Blue avatars like Old School republican and there is little in the media about this comparison but we know, largely due to Melania Trump not talking in the press that much and Hillary became a politician

They all cheated just like athletes alot of women get married not just date men because they are filthy rich like whom had the best cheerleader I'm the HS the top QB or Basketball or Baseball because of homecoming and he paid her 130 K

I saw on Oprah in 2000s men working poormaking 9.50 an hr unmarried and not just minority but white men that aren't white professional at 47, Ralph Furley types but Don Knotts had kids in real life he was rich

I am not saying this is the case in all instances but on Skid Row the homeless men are unmarried and sisters not brother puts them out after their sister got the inheritance


That's why we need reparations Whites outnumbered minorities because they are rich they can have 4 kids we might have only 1 or 2 kids and gonna continue outnumbered us, reparations isn't just for us it's for our defendants too, there are Labor shortages because Manuel labor isn't desirable anymore because you can't get rich, like Chain gangs worked them they are minimum skill jobs

[emailking]

recent Trump:

I want to thank everybody for the tremendous support you have given me against this assault on our Nation. Our once beautiful USA is now a Nation in Decline. Radical Left Thugs & Insurrectionists have taken over our Country, & are rapidly destroying it. They are using the levers of Law Enforcement, and have completely Weaponized the FBI & DOJ to Interfere with, Rigg, and Steal our once SACRED ELECTIONS. We are now living in a THIRD WORLD COUNTRY, but we will Come Back & MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

The Corrupt D.A. has no case. What he does have is a venue where it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to get a Fair Trial (it must be changed!), and a Trump Hating Judge, hand selected by the Soros backed D.A. (he must be changed!). Also has the DOJ working in the D.A.’s Office - Unprecedented!

I will be leaving Mar-a-Lago on Monday at 12 noon, heading to Trump Tower in New York. On Tuesday morning I will be going to, believe it or not, the Courthouse. America was not supposed to be this way!

ELECTION INTERFERENCE!!!

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

They're not saying it's delayed because he was President. He could have been charged under the law. It's a 5 year statue of limitations on felonies in New York. The last payment to Cohen was in late 2017 but the bookkeeping for it was in 2018 which starts the 5 year clock.

Technically yes but it is a DOJ opinion that you cannot charge a sitting President with a crime, period, and states have followed along with that. (YES, even if they are say, driving at 200 mph and crashing into 30 different cars, you cannot)

So the argument is the clock actually started on January 20, 2021.

[emailking]

Doesn't matter what their policies are about who they can charge when. The statute of limitations makes no such exceptions for that. Trump can be charge for this because the crime was less than 5 years ago.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Doesn't matter what their policies are about who they can charge when. The statute of limitations makes no such exceptions for that. Trump can be charge for this because the crime was less than 5 years ago.

From what I read, Cohen was reimbursed in 2018 and that's when the payment got into the books.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

McLaughlin has Trump leading DeSantis 61/31 Trump is gonna be the Nominee and lose not just a 303 map but we don't know how much wave insurance

[Torie]

Doesn't matter what their policies are about who they can charge when. The statute of limitations makes no such exceptions for that. Trump can be charge for this because the crime was less than 5 years ago.

From what I read, Cohen was reimbursed in 2018 and that's when the payment got into the books.

Nope, I don’t think so. Even if the reimbursement were in 2018 rather than 2016 (I have not read that was the case anywhere, and why would Cohen carry the expense for 2 years?), Trump certainly had agreed to reimburse Cohen in 2016, so in that sense it was a debt to Cohen from Trump that was incurred coincident with the campaign, and not reported, and thus a campaign finance violation. So, Bragg is left with the tolling claim while Trump was out of state, or the even more problematical theory that the mere DOJ policy of not indicting sitting Presidents tolls the statute. Goof luck with that. Even the left-wing Nation is not buying that one. Bragg’s role model appears to be Icarus.

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/trump-indictment-bragg-legal-case/

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

https://news.yahoo.com/opinion-why-many-young-white-100035238.html

Here's an Article on MAGA MOVT DeSantis and Trump, that's why DeSantis loses to Biden, it's not the Bush W party anymore, Blks have BLM because we align with blk not white athletes, white athletes especially Baseball and Nascar dad's and Russian Hockey players are pro guns and too, HUNTERS, so are WWE stars Vince McMahon and whites have MAGA DUE TO GUNS BUT THEY SAY DS DEFUND THE POLICE AND CRIMINALS CARRY CONCEALED CARRY NOT LAW ABIDING CITIZENS THEY KEEP THEM AT HOME TO WARD OFF HOME INVASION

[emailking]

Nope, I don’t think so. Even if the reimbursement were in 2018 rather than 2016 (I have not read that was the case anywhere, and why would Cohen carry the expense for 2 years?), Trump certainly had agreed to reimburse Cohen in 2016, so in that sense it was a debt to Cohen from Trump that was incurred coincident with the campaign, and not reported, and thus a campaign finance violation. So, Bragg is left with the tolling claim while Trump was out of state, or the even more problematical theory that the mere DOJ policy of not indicting sitting Presidents tolls the statute. Goof luck with that. Even the left-wing Nation is not buying that one. Bragg’s role model appears to be Icarus.

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/trump-indictment-bragg-legal-case/

You like Andrew McCarthy right? He argued it could be within the statute of limitations.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/imminent-trump-indictment-and-the-statute-of-limitations/

Last payment was late 2017 btw.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Doesn't matter what their policies are about who they can charge when. The statute of limitations makes no such exceptions for that. Trump can be charge for this because the crime was less than 5 years ago.

From what I read, Cohen was reimbursed in 2018 and that's when the payment got into the books.

Nope, I don’t think so. Even if the reimbursement were in 2018 rather than 2016 (I have not read that was the case anywhere, and why would Cohen carry the expense for 2 years?), Trump certainly had agreed to reimburse Cohen in 2016, so in that sense it was a debt to Cohen from Trump that was incurred coincident with the campaign, and not reported, and thus a campaign finance violation. So, Bragg is left with the tolling claim while Trump was out of state, or the even more problematical theory that the mere DOJ policy of not indicting sitting Presidents tolls the statute. Goof luck with that. Even the left-wing Nation is not buying that one. Bragg’s role model appears to be Icarus.

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/trump-indictment-bragg-legal-case/

If Trump is indicted for a bookkeeping crime then the crime was committed when the payment appeared into the books (first quarter of 2018), not when Trump agreed to reimburse Cohen or when the latter got the money.
Again, I'm no lawyer but this seems like a common sense thing to me.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Trump is a criminal anyways he just hasn't been charged on other crimes he colluded with Russia to destroy Hillary campaign and met Russia oligarchy in Trump tower he wasn't charged because he was PREZ, as long as they get him on something indies and D's know how corrupted DeSantis and Trump are that's why it's a 303 map with wave insurance both of them won't be elected Prez there are 80/70 M more D's in this country

Just because Trump hold Maga rallies doesn't mean there are more RS D's Protest by BLM not appear in MAGA WORLD

[Redban]

WAPO's fact checker got fact checked by twitter LOL

[GeorgiaModerate]

It is certainly reasonable for Trump's lawyers to raise the statute of limitations question as part of his defense; I'll go further and say they would be remiss if they failed to do so.  It will have its day in court, and I could see it going either way.

[Torie]

Nope, I don’t think so. Even if the reimbursement were in 2018 rather than 2016 (I have not read that was the case anywhere, and why would Cohen carry the expense for 2 years?), Trump certainly had agreed to reimburse Cohen in 2016, so in that sense it was a debt to Cohen from Trump that was incurred coincident with the campaign, and not reported, and thus a campaign finance violation. So, Bragg is left with the tolling claim while Trump was out of state, or the even more problematical theory that the mere DOJ policy of not indicting sitting Presidents tolls the statute. Goof luck with that. Even the left-wing Nation is not buying that one. Bragg’s role model appears to be Icarus.

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/trump-indictment-bragg-legal-case/

You like Andrew McCarthy right? He argued it could be within the statute of limitations.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/imminent-trump-indictment-and-the-statute-of-limitations/

Last payment was late 2017 btw.

Yes, and it is a good article on the SOL issue.   However given the timing of the hush money payment, it does seem a stretch that it was not campaign related. Even if Daniels asked for the money previously, if, it was not given until right before the election per McCarthy's article.

"The hush money arrangement executed for Trump by Michael Cohen (they’ve both acknowledged it after previously denying it) happened just before Election Day in 2016 — i.e., over six years ago."

The NYT brings up the novelty of it all. But selective prosecutions are not themselves illegal, even if problematical from a policy standpoint.

"According to legal experts, New York prosecutors have never before combined the falsifying business records charge with a violation of state election law in a case involving a presidential election, or any federal campaign. Because this is uncharted territory, it is possible that a judge could throw it out or reduce the felony charge to a misdemeanor."

[Redban]

Given the timing of the alleged sexual encounter (2006) and the fact that she asked him for money before he ran for President, it is a stretch to argue that the expense would not have existed unless Trump ran for President. Hence, it is a stretch to argue it was a campaign contribution as defined by the FEC

If I owe $10k in child support for a few years before I run for office, and I choose to pay the $10k only when I run. Is that $10k a campaign contribution? ... No, because the obligation to pay the $10k child support existed irrespective of my campaign 

[Farmlands]

Leaving aside the statute of limitations, I'm not really able to speak on that, I think there's a fair possibility that this goes to trial, but Trump gets acquitted, probably the outcome Bragg wants the least. Because John Edwards' case was really similar but with even more condemnable conduct, and he still won out in the end.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Leaving aside the statute of limitations, I'm not really able to speak on that, I think there's a fair possibility that this goes to trial, but Trump gets acquitted, probably the outcome Bragg wants the least. Because John Edwards' case was really similar but with even more condemnable conduct, and he still won out in the end.

LoL prejudice the case lol this is  NY not GA where the RS control the Crts amd the consensus is he will be found Guilty and he has the right to Appeal but Rejected by SCOTUs, RS lose in 24 even with DeSantis and serve 2 yrs on an ankle bracelet, Trump is a crock already Russia Collusion

SCOTUS will compromise he will serve 2 yrs on an ankle bracelet, users are so quick to acquit Trump and he cheated on his wife, with a porn star he paid 130K for hush money that Gore lost and had no responsibility for Lewinsky and we got silly tax cuts for the rich