UK General Discussion: Rishecession

[Edu]

I think this is the first time I'm posting in this thread but I must say that I find it hilarious that I know all about the disaster that are the tories but at the same time, off the top of my head, I have no friggin idea who the labour leader is lol

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

Well - it could be worse. At least we’ve disavowed Trussonomics as a country. Some people want to give it another try…
https://mobile.twitter.com/WSJopinion/status/1582551879703302145

God I hate this country

[Aurelius]

Well - it could be worse. At least we’ve disavowed Trussonomics as a country. Some people want to give it another try…
https://mobile.twitter.com/WSJopinion/status/1582551879703302145

A massive unfunded energy subsidy is restrained spending, news to me!

Trussonomics is somewhere in between zombie-Reaganite voodoo economics and Peronism.

(key word being "zombie". Reaganomics can work very well when tax rates are high to begin with, like they were 40-50 years ago. It doesn't work when tax rates are low!)

[Alben Barkley]

Well - it could be worse. At least we’ve disavowed Trussonomics as a country. Some people want to give it another try…
https://mobile.twitter.com/WSJopinion/status/1582551879703302145

The fact that he was probably the best Republican to run for President since 2008 says a lot, doesn't it?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Well - it could be worse. At least we’ve disavowed Trussonomics as a country. Some people want to give it another try…
https://mobile.twitter.com/WSJopinion/status/1582551879703302145

And so many dumbs thought Kasich was a moderate because he had a moderate personality compared to Trump and Cruz.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Well - it could be worse. At least we’ve disavowed Trussonomics as a country. Some people want to give it another try…
https://mobile.twitter.com/WSJopinion/status/1582551879703302145

And so many dumbs thought Kasich was a moderate because he had a moderate personality compared to Trump and Cruz.

Kasich was a moderate compared to Trump and Cruz, which is a bit like being abstemious compared to Rick James.

[Zinneke]

Well - it could be worse. At least we’ve disavowed Trussonomics as a country. Some people want to give it another try…
https://mobile.twitter.com/WSJopinion/status/1582551879703302145

I did the same in Medieval 2 Total War and I didn't get a Wall Street Op Ed at the time!

[Torrain]

Conservative Party infighting update. Dominic Raab, Johnson’s Deputy PM who went on to back Sunak and fall out with the Truss faction, is trying to stop his old boss coming back:
https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/1583729472251260928
Raab burnt bridges with Johnson when he backed Sunak (boy, this is all starting to sound more like Mean Girls than the government of a functioning democracy), but this will be viewed very negatively amongst his old cabinet friends.

Glad he’s speaking out though - it’s nice to see someone point out the bleeding obvious about Johnson.

[CumbrianLefty]

Well - it could be worse. At least we’ve disavowed Trussonomics as a country. Some people want to give it another try…
https://mobile.twitter.com/WSJopinion/status/1582551879703302145

A massive unfunded energy subsidy is restrained spending, news to me!

Trussonomics is somewhere in between zombie-Reaganite voodoo economics and Peronism.

(key word being "zombie". Reaganomics can work very well when tax rates are high to begin with, like they were 40-50 years ago. It doesn't work when tax rates are low!)

As I have said repeatedly, she saw that one significant concession to public opinion (which is, lest we forget, *massively* hostile to right wing libertarianism) as a green light to go full Britannia Unchained everywhere else. This was never likely to work, even if the speed of its implosion still surprised.

I do hope you aren't doing the "*real* libertarianism has never been tried" schtick

[parochial boy]

Well - it could be worse. At least we’ve disavowed Trussonomics as a country. Some people want to give it another try…
https://mobile.twitter.com/WSJopinion/status/1582551879703302145

A massive unfunded energy subsidy is restrained spending, news to me!

Trussonomics is somewhere in between zombie-Reaganite voodoo economics and Peronism.

(key word being "zombie". Reaganomics can work very well when tax rates are high to begin with, like they were 40-50 years ago. It doesn't work when tax rates are low!)

As I have said repeatedly, she saw that one significant concession to public opinion (which is, lest we forget, *massively* hostile to right wing libertarianism) as a green light to go full Britannia Unchained everywhere else. This was never likely to work, even if the speed of its implosion still surprised.

I do hope you aren't doing the "*real* libertarianism has never been tried" schtick

Indeed, worth noting that in fact the measures on corporation tax and the National Insurance cut were actually the most costly parts of the budget. Not the energy measures. So if you're looking for something that was "not funded", it was the massive bung that she had proposed to give to the wealthiest.

Of course, there is also an increasing wealth of evidence discrediting the idea that tax cuts lead to growth. Reaganism "worked" because it amounted to a fiscally expansionist package, which we know works. And which of course also led to the long term issues that we have experienced over the last decade, due to the tax cuts reducing the state's ability to invest in itself.

[Blair]

Being briefed that a Boris led party could vote to axe the party gate inquiry; for non-UK posters this is this a special select committee investigating whether he lied in the Commons. The commons voted for it earlier this year- including the Conservative MPs.

Forcing a vote on ending the committee would be a very quick and easy way of forcing tory MPs to vote on the mans character and to essentially force a split in the party- can you find 36 Tory MPs willing to vote to keep it? Probably!

Surely the sensible thing is to wait for it to conclude, and then amend the suspension to less than 10 days- which avoids a recall election* and allows him to apologise? This is ofc what they could have done with Paterson but they felt the need to go much further.


*The banter outcome is that he gets recalled, tries to swap seats and ends up losing a by-election in a seat with a 20,000 majority.

[Torie]

To try to be somewhat fair to Truss, and I know it is hard, how much of a surprise was it when the markets near instantly collapsedin the face of her economic program? While many thought her program did not pencil and was reckless, how many really anticipated the fury of the market backlash? I suppose for those who did, some might have made a lot of money over shorting and hedging the right assets.

[LabourJersey]

To try to be somewhat fair to Truss, and I know it is hard, how much of a surprise was it when the markets near instantly collapsedin the face of her economic program? While many thought her program did not pencil and was reckless, how many really anticipated the fury of the market backlash? I suppose for those who did, some might have made a lot of money over shorting and hedging the right assets.

The British economy has been on shaking crowd for the past 2 years. It's not *that* shocking that a sweeping new program, especially one that is hilarious un-suited for our current economic problems, would engender a lot of backlash.

[Cassius]

Well - it could be worse. At least we’ve disavowed Trussonomics as a country. Some people want to give it another try…
https://mobile.twitter.com/WSJopinion/status/1582551879703302145

A massive unfunded energy subsidy is restrained spending, news to me!

Trussonomics is somewhere in between zombie-Reaganite voodoo economics and Peronism.

(key word being "zombie". Reaganomics can work very well when tax rates are high to begin with, like they were 40-50 years ago. It doesn't work when tax rates are low!)

As I have said repeatedly, she saw that one significant concession to public opinion (which is, lest we forget, *massively* hostile to right wing libertarianism) as a green light to go full Britannia Unchained everywhere else. This was never likely to work, even if the speed of its implosion still surprised.

I do hope you aren't doing the "*real* libertarianism has never been tried" schtick

Indeed, worth noting that in fact the measures on corporation tax and the National Insurance cut were actually the most costly parts of the budget. Not the energy measures. So if you're looking for something that was "not funded", it was the massive bung that she had proposed to give to the wealthiest.

Source for this? As far as I’ve read, all of the estimates for the energy price guarantee (in its initial form, as opposed to the truncated version announced by Hunt) had it costing more in the next year than all the tax cuts and cancelled tax rises put together. Not saying you’re wrong but would be interested to see the data.

[parochial boy]

Well - it could be worse. At least we’ve disavowed Trussonomics as a country. Some people want to give it another try…
https://mobile.twitter.com/WSJopinion/status/1582551879703302145

A massive unfunded energy subsidy is restrained spending, news to me!

Trussonomics is somewhere in between zombie-Reaganite voodoo economics and Peronism.

(key word being "zombie". Reaganomics can work very well when tax rates are high to begin with, like they were 40-50 years ago. It doesn't work when tax rates are low!)

As I have said repeatedly, she saw that one significant concession to public opinion (which is, lest we forget, *massively* hostile to right wing libertarianism) as a green light to go full Britannia Unchained everywhere else. This was never likely to work, even if the speed of its implosion still surprised.

I do hope you aren't doing the "*real* libertarianism has never been tried" schtick

Indeed, worth noting that in fact the measures on corporation tax and the National Insurance cut were actually the most costly parts of the budget. Not the energy measures. So if you're looking for something that was "not funded", it was the massive bung that she had proposed to give to the wealthiest.

Source for this? As far as I’ve read, all of the estimates for the energy price guarantee (in its initial form, as opposed to the truncated version announced by Hunt) had it costing more in the next year than all the tax cuts and cancelled tax rises put together. Not saying you’re wrong but would be interested to see the data.

Here, pg 25-26.

Though obviously not helpful in the way the energy bill was actually costed

[TheTide]

The best thing about this is that Tory voters acknowledge the disaster as much as anyone else. There's a lot of things wrong with this country, but it doesn't have the same levels of kneejerk partisanship as do certain other countries.

[Alben Barkley]

It’s happening!

https://twitter.com/independent/status/1583826055462555648?s=46&t=trT2pCQ_Pl...

[Torrain]

It’s happening!

https://twitter.com/independent/status/1583826055462555648?s=46&t=trT2pCQ_PljdCr6HtAqXQw

This is being heavily disputed, by journalists and MPs - see discussion here:
https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=525853.250

[Torie]

Apparently the syndrome  of anonymous spin doctors has crossed the Pond.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/22/penny-mordaunt-backers-counting-on-stop-sunak-mps-if-boris-johnson-falls

““There’s a lot of people who still just hate each other – that has not changed since the summer,” said a Mordaunt ally. “It’s only intensified. That is why Penny could emerge as the genuine unity candidate. There’s Boris people who look at Rishi and just really can’t stomach him and won’t want to serve under him – and I doubt they are going to be quiet in any situation in which Rishi is prime minister. She has none of the baggage. If not first, she is everyone’s number two choice. Her private numbers are much higher than publicly listed.”

[Antonio the Sixth]

Apparently the syndrome  of anonymous spin doctors has crossed the Pond.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/22/penny-mordaunt-backers-counting-on-stop-sunak-mps-if-boris-johnson-falls

““There’s a lot of people who still just hate each other – that has not changed since the summer,” said a Mordaunt ally. “It’s only intensified. That is why Penny could emerge as the genuine unity candidate. There’s Boris people who look at Rishi and just really can’t stomach him and won’t want to serve under him – and I doubt they are going to be quiet in any situation in which Rishi is prime minister. She has none of the baggage. If not first, she is everyone’s number two choice. Her private numbers are much higher than publicly listed.”

Aside from the last sentence, it's hard to disagree with any of that. While Sunak is clearly less of a political suicide for the Tories than bringing back BoJo, it's far from a safe choice, given that we know the ERG types will be building barricades from day 1. I said already a couple days ago that it shocked me that there wasn't a genuine effort by both sides to find a candidate they could live with, and I'm still surprised by that. It really seems that every faction would rather see the party burn that give up their shot at power.

[NewYorkExpress]

The Lambeth Council is giving pregnant women free vaping devices to get them to stop spending money on cigarettes.

Pregnant women will be handed free vapes by a south London council to stop them spending money on cigarettes.

Lambeth Council estimates its "stop smoking" service will save parents £2,000 a year - money it says would otherwise be spent on tobacco.

NHS said little research has been conducted into the safety of e-cigarettes in pregnancy and patches and gum are preferred.

The council said using e-cigarettes can help women become smoke-free.

"Smoking during pregnancy is the leading risk factor for poor birth outcomes, including stillbirth, miscarriage and pre-term birth," a council spokesman said.

"Data shows that women from low income households are much more likely to smoke in pregnancy.

[Badger]

Those that know, know.

Why are you always like this?

What, correct?

[Aurelius]

Well - it could be worse. At least we’ve disavowed Trussonomics as a country. Some people want to give it another try…
https://mobile.twitter.com/WSJopinion/status/1582551879703302145

A massive unfunded energy subsidy is restrained spending, news to me!

Trussonomics is somewhere in between zombie-Reaganite voodoo economics and Peronism.

(key word being "zombie". Reaganomics can work very well when tax rates are high to begin with, like they were 40-50 years ago. It doesn't work when tax rates are low!)

As I have said repeatedly, she saw that one significant concession to public opinion (which is, lest we forget, *massively* hostile to right wing libertarianism) as a green light to go full Britannia Unchained everywhere else. This was never likely to work, even if the speed of its implosion still surprised.

I do hope you aren't doing the "*real* libertarianism has never been tried" schtick

To be clear, my point is just that it's well established that this kind of economic policy fails when initial tax rates are left of the Laffer curve. So yeah, real Brownbackism has been tried and failed. But that was in a low tax environment to begin with, so it's not comparable to the high tax environment in the mid-late 1900s (when Reagan took office, the top marginal rate was 69%).

Not trying to derail the thread here, I was just being careful not to paint Truss's insane "economic" plan with overly broad a brush.

[Torie]

Inasmuch as it is my impression that the Truss borrow and spend and tax cut economic plan was a departure from the Boris economic policies, is it nevertheless well taken by Boris's detractors, that his return would be another kick in the nuts to the UK economy?

From the Guardian:

"Former cabinet ministers backing Sunak said a comeback for Johnson would also unsettle the financial markets, increasing the risk of further sharp rises in interest rates by the Bank of England within days."

About a dozen Torie MP's are saying they will leave the party if Boris comes back. The level of threats and counter threats seems to be rising. Who are the eminence grises to calm things down? And why would Boris want to step into this mine field? Seems nutter to me.

If it were me, I would waive a wand and put Jeremy Hunt on the throne, and tell the squabbling jejunes to go back to throwing sand at each other in the sandbox. Calm, moderate, competent and dull. That's the ticket.

[Conservatopia]

Those that know, know.

Why are you always like this?

What, correct?

No. See if you knew, you would know, but you don't know what you don't know. I know that you don't know, and I know that you know that I know.  You're not in the know, so you cannot know what is known, which is that you don't know what I know.

Know what I mean?