Trump 2nd Impeachment News/Talk Megathread

[brucejoel99]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

Their senators would never be elected in time.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

[brucejoel99]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

Disqualify Trump from holding federal office again in the future, which is still permissible (& why the trial is still happening).

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

[7,052,770]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

Their senators would never be elected in time.

They could have with better planning.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

Some of us remember Obama's neoliberal warmongering.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

Some of us remember Obama's neoliberal warmongering.

Like?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

Some of us remember Obama's neoliberal warmongering.

Okay, but what mystifies people isn't why a hard leftist would be hostile to mainstream Democrats, it's why a hard leftist would be even more hostile to mainstream Democrats than to Trump and Trumpism, a position that only makes sense if you presuppose that 1. foreign policy is so overwhelmingly more important than domestic policy that a President can literally attempt to abolish representative democracy at home and still be preferable to a "normal" President whose foreign policy was worse than the aspiring autocrat's and 2. excessive use of hard power is the only kind of bad foreign policy. Normal people, including normal leftists, reject both of those premises.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

Some of us remember Obama's neoliberal warmongering.

Like?

Seriously?

[brucejoel99]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

Their senators would never be elected in time.

They could have with better planning.

Given UOCAVA's election requirements alone, a trial would've had to have been delayed well into March in order to wait for new Senators, & as we saw in real life, a delay of that significant a length wouldn't have been a politically feasible option.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

Some of us remember Obama's neoliberal warmongering.

Okay, but what mystifies people isn't why a hard leftist would be hostile to mainstream Democrats, it's why a hard leftist would be even more hostile to mainstream Democrats than to Trump and Trumpism, a position that only makes sense if you presuppose that 1. foreign policy is so overwhelmingly more important than domestic policy that a President can literally attempt to abolish representative democracy at home and still be preferable to a "normal" President whose foreign policy was worse than the aspiring autocrat's and 2. excessive use of hard power is the only kind of bad foreign policy. Normal people, including normal leftists, reject both of those premises.

When everyone is acting like Trump is worse than Hitler while Democrats aren't much better than Trump, what's the point of piling on with Trump. I'm more scared of Presidents that the media isn't so willing to stand up to.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

Some of us remember Obama's neoliberal warmongering.

Like?

Seriously?

Yes because like I said in another thread if we are defining what Obama did in Libya as a war then Trump has totally continued this policy in Yemen and Syria. If you’re going to argue Obama was a worse president then Trump especially on the foreign policy front then you should actually present an actual case of how he was worse over engaging in the same tactic Trumpers do of misrepresenting Trump being a 24/7 domestic front news that the fact he did drone strikes more than Obama and with less regard for civilians casualties failed to gain any notice with the absurd notion Trump was a dove

[brucejoel99]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

Some of us remember Obama's neoliberal warmongering.

Okay, but what mystifies people isn't why a hard leftist would be hostile to mainstream Democrats, it's why a hard leftist would be even more hostile to mainstream Democrats than to Trump and Trumpism, a position that only makes sense if you presuppose that 1. foreign policy is so overwhelmingly more important than domestic policy that a President can literally attempt to abolish representative democracy at home and still be preferable to a "normal" President whose foreign policy was worse than the aspiring autocrat's and 2. excessive use of hard power is the only kind of bad foreign policy. Normal people, including normal leftists, reject both of those premises.

When everyone is acting like Trump is worse than Hitler while Democrats aren't much better than Trump, what's the point of piling on with Trump. I'm more scared of Presidents that the media isn't so willing to stand up to.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

Some of us remember Obama's neoliberal warmongering.

Like?

Seriously?

Yes because like I said in another thread if we are defining what Obama did in Libya as a war then Trump has totally continued this policy in Yemen and Syria. If you’re going to argue Obama was a worse president then Trump especially on the foreign policy front then you should actually present an actual case of how he was worse over engaging in the same tactic Trumpers do of misrepresenting Trump being a 24/7 domestic front news that the fact he did drone strikes more than Obama and with less regard for civilians casualties failed to gain any notice with the absurd notion Trump was a dove

So your whole excuse for Obama is sure Trump did bad things too. Trump didn't run on "hope and change" and pretend to be a progressive while Democrats got destroyed down ballot in his midterms.  If Obama wasn't a sh**tty President you wouldn't need to go with well Trump did those things too.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

Some of us remember Obama's neoliberal warmongering.

Okay, but what mystifies people isn't why a hard leftist would be hostile to mainstream Democrats, it's why a hard leftist would be even more hostile to mainstream Democrats than to Trump and Trumpism, a position that only makes sense if you presuppose that 1. foreign policy is so overwhelmingly more important than domestic policy that a President can literally attempt to abolish representative democracy at home and still be preferable to a "normal" President whose foreign policy was worse than the aspiring autocrat's and 2. excessive use of hard power is the only kind of bad foreign policy. Normal people, including normal leftists, reject both of those premises.

When everyone is acting like Trump is worse than Hitler while Democrats aren't much better than Trump, what's the point of piling on with Trump. I'm more scared of Presidents that the media isn't so willing to stand up to.

Silence, neoliberal!

[WMS]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

Some of us remember Obama's neoliberal warmongering.

Okay, but what mystifies people isn't why a hard leftist would be hostile to mainstream Democrats, it's why a hard leftist would be even more hostile to mainstream Democrats than to Trump and Trumpism, a position that only makes sense if you presuppose that 1. foreign policy is so overwhelmingly more important than domestic policy that a President can literally attempt to abolish representative democracy at home and still be preferable to a "normal" President whose foreign policy was worse than the aspiring autocrat's and 2. excessive use of hard power is the only kind of bad foreign policy. Normal people, including normal leftists, reject both of those premises.

When everyone is acting like Trump is worse than Hitler while Democrats aren't much better than Trump, what's the point of piling on with Trump. I'm more scared of Presidents that the media isn't so willing to stand up to.

Silence, neoliberal!

Jfern is a fly encased in amber. Over 15 years and counting...

[Hindsight was 2020]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

Some of us remember Obama's neoliberal warmongering.

Like?

Seriously?

Yes because like I said in another thread if we are defining what Obama did in Libya as a war then Trump has totally continued this policy in Yemen and Syria. If you’re going to argue Obama was a worse president then Trump especially on the foreign policy front then you should actually present an actual case of how he was worse over engaging in the same tactic Trumpers do of misrepresenting Trump being a 24/7 domestic front news that the fact he did drone strikes more than Obama and with less regard for civilians casualties failed to gain any notice with the absurd notion Trump was a dove

So your whole excuse for Obama is sure Trump did bad things too. Trump didn't run on "hope and change" and pretend to be a progressive while Democrats got destroyed down ballot in his midterms.  If Obama wasn't a sh**tty President you wouldn't need to go with well Trump did those things too.

No what I was saying is Trump has a worse track record on issues you claim to care about in the past yet give him a pass on it while criticizing Obama

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

Some of us remember Obama's neoliberal warmongering.

Okay, but what mystifies people isn't why a hard leftist would be hostile to mainstream Democrats, it's why a hard leftist would be even more hostile to mainstream Democrats than to Trump and Trumpism, a position that only makes sense if you presuppose that 1. foreign policy is so overwhelmingly more important than domestic policy that a President can literally attempt to abolish representative democracy at home and still be preferable to a "normal" President whose foreign policy was worse than the aspiring autocrat's and 2. excessive use of hard power is the only kind of bad foreign policy. Normal people, including normal leftists, reject both of those premises.

When everyone is acting like Trump is worse than Hitler while Democrats aren't much better than Trump, what's the point of piling on with Trump. I'm more scared of Presidents that the media isn't so willing to stand up to.

Silence, neoliberal!

What is this "Silence, so and so!" thing you do?  It's annoying.

[Calthrina950]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

Some of us remember Obama's neoliberal warmongering.

Okay, but what mystifies people isn't why a hard leftist would be hostile to mainstream Democrats, it's why a hard leftist would be even more hostile to mainstream Democrats than to Trump and Trumpism, a position that only makes sense if you presuppose that 1. foreign policy is so overwhelmingly more important than domestic policy that a President can literally attempt to abolish representative democracy at home and still be preferable to a "normal" President whose foreign policy was worse than the aspiring autocrat's and 2. excessive use of hard power is the only kind of bad foreign policy. Normal people, including normal leftists, reject both of those premises.

When everyone is acting like Trump is worse than Hitler while Democrats aren't much better than Trump, what's the point of piling on with Trump. I'm more scared of Presidents that the media isn't so willing to stand up to.

Silence, neoliberal!

What is this "Silence, so and so!" thing you do?  It's annoying.

I agree. I think Mr. X is one of the better moderators here, but this habit of his is one that I've never been that comfortable with.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Remember when Trump did explicitly run as a progressive on certain issues, especially foreign policy (dunking on Jeb Bush)? Remember how some leftists supported him because of that? Notice how certain leftists are trying to rewrite history?

[DaleCooper]

Remember when Trump did explicitly run as a progressive on certain areas, especially foreign policy (dunking on Jeb Bush)? Remember how some leftists supported him because of that? Notice how certain leftists are trying to rewrite history?

I vividly remember the left-wingers that were apologists for Trump in 2016. It was practically an epidemic online and a lot of commentators made careers out of it.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

Some of us remember Obama's neoliberal warmongering.

Okay, but what mystifies people isn't why a hard leftist would be hostile to mainstream Democrats, it's why a hard leftist would be even more hostile to mainstream Democrats than to Trump and Trumpism, a position that only makes sense if you presuppose that 1. foreign policy is so overwhelmingly more important than domestic policy that a President can literally attempt to abolish representative democracy at home and still be preferable to a "normal" President whose foreign policy was worse than the aspiring autocrat's and 2. excessive use of hard power is the only kind of bad foreign policy. Normal people, including normal leftists, reject both of those premises.

When everyone is acting like Trump is worse than Hitler while Democrats aren't much better than Trump, what's the point of piling on with Trump. I'm more scared of Presidents that the media isn't so willing to stand up to.

Silence, neoliberal!

What is this "Silence, so and so!" thing you do?  It's annoying.

I agree. I think Mr. X is one of the better moderators here, but this habit of his is one that I've never been that comfortable with.

It’s basically a shorthand for either A) “wake me when you’re ready to make a good-faith argument” or B) “LOL, you have no credibility on this and/or aren’t really in a position to comment b/c (insert reason here”).  I generally reserve it for when:

1) When a progressive/leftist/Democrat/whatever whom I think is posting in bad-faith tries to pretend there’s no meaningful difference between the Democratic establishment and folks like Trump/McConnell/etc (an assertion which simply lacks any basis in reality);

2) When a self-declared progressive/leftist/etc said they were voting for Howie Hawkins for President in 2020 b/c of some sort of petty nonsense like being salty about Bernie losing.  Imo if you voted third party *from the left* in the 2020 presidential, then you might as well be voting for Trump and are probably more invested in some dumb progressiver-than-thou schtick than you are in actually implementing progressive policies; and

3) Republicans who offer clearly horrible advice about internal Democratic Party factional disputes or concern troll about how Democrats need to pander more to Republicans on policy.


Jfern isn’t arguing in good-faith and his whole schtick comes off as someone less concerned about implementing progressive legislation than he is with bashing people who are actually trying to get things done so he can enjoy the unearned sense of superiority that comes with ideological puritanism.  I apologize to Jfern if I’m wrong about that, but like, if the minimum wage is raised to $15 over five years, I feel like his reaction will be “why didn’t the neo-LIEbrals make it $20 an hour?  Why is it over five years?  Clearly Joe Biden and Schumer are no better than Trump!”  

It gets annoying after a while and my point was sort of “dude, all you do is complain about people who are actually trying to pass progressive legislation.  When you say there’s no difference between Biden and an authoritarian, right-wing wanna-be dictator like Trump, it kinda sounds like you’re really saying ‘I’m fine with neo-liberal - and far worse - policies wreaking havoc on the folks I claim to be worried about as long as I get to feel superior.’”  I don’t have much patience for that mindset after the past four years.

Moreover, I’m trying to work on not getting sucked into dumb fights on Atlas.  One strategy to avoid getting sucked into the vortex is to have shorthand phrases you can use when you feel the need to comment on something that annoyed you, but also aren’t looking to burn brain cells going around and around with someone you already think is posting in bad-faith.  

And again, I could always be wrong about Jfern, but if so then I’d challenge him to also talk about when folks do things he supports.  It’s not a reasonable position to just say “everything is awful b/c reasons and anyone to the right of Bernie is a corrupt neo-liberal warmonger.”  Like, what am I gonna learn by making an effort-post response to someone with that attitude?

EDIT: Great example: Jfern’s response to Biden’s policy changes re: Yemen was

So we'll just "defensively" drone Shia children?

I mean, are you really gonna tell me that was a good-faith post from someone interested in having a serious discussion? 

[Sir Mohamed]

Of course he won't.

https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1357586616135651328

[DaleCooper]

It's smart of him not to. It'd be a humiliating moment for him and would make it even tougher for Republicans to justify acquitting him.