Trump admin defends inhumane conditions for children at its concentration camps

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Is the argument that an immigrant detention center is by definition a concentration camp?  Or is there some specific additional quality that makes them so?

When I think of a "concentration camp", I think of the state forcibly evicting people from their homes and communities and holding somewhere else.  I don't think that's what this mainly is, is it?  Isn't it mostly people who don't have a home yet in the US, waiting for processing?

Of course that doesn't mean we can't be concerned about the conditions in these places.

One of the frustration things about immigration debates is the lack of any precision about what immigrants, and which agencies and facilities are being addressed.  Instead we just get vague generalities conflating different events and this quickly degenerates into partisan talking points.    I don't see how talking about "concentration camps" helps us get beyond this.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I’m a Jewish historian. Yes, we should call border detention centers “concentration camps.”

Americans offended at the use of “concentration camp” should acquaint themselves with our own history of civilian detention. As early as 1862, American forces interned Dakota women and children at Fort Snelling. George Takei tweeted this week regarding the mass internment of Japanese Americans during World War II, “I know what concentration camps are. I was inside two of them, in America. And yes, we are operating such camps again.”

Applying the term “concentration camp” to the indefinite detention without trial of thousands of civilians in inhumane conditions — under armed guard and without adequate provisions or medical care — is not just appropriate, it’s necessary. Invoking the word does not demean the memory of the Holocaust. Instead, the lessons of the Holocaust will be lost if we refuse to engage with them.

If conservatives truly think that “concentration camp” is limited to Nazi death camps, where was the outrage when the Trump administration employed it to (correctly) describe the mass detention of Uighurs in Xinjiang? (Naturally, the Chinese government also hates the term concentration camp, preferring to call them “vocational education training centers.”)

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Because I know it's nonsense.  I know your just demonizing the other side for your own cause.  Those detention centers are not concentration camps.  No one is being worked to death.  Nobody is gunned down at the detention center.  People in concentration camps didn't die of "negligence".  They died of premeditated murder.  

Even hear about the Boer War when the whole concentration camp started?

[ProudModerate2]

Why hasn’t Trump’s Gestapo taken the OP in the middle of the night for a free helicopter ride? I thought this country was fascist now. I thought open dissent wasn’t longer tolerated under Herr Trump?

trump may very well do that. It would not surprise anyone, if he did so.
PS: Careful on your references about trump being a Nazi/Fascist. Your snowflake friend Hollywood might be "offended," and throw a conniption-fit on your comparisons.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Why hasn’t Trump’s Gestapo taken the OP in the middle of the night for a free helicopter ride? I thought this country was fascist now. I thought open dissent wasn’t longer tolerated under Herr Trump?

Non-fascist regimes and even otherwise non-authoritarian governments have used concentration camps. A particular human rights abuse doesn't necessarily mean that other human rights abuses will follow; that doesn't make it any more excusable.

[Fight for Trump]

Why hasn’t Trump’s Gestapo taken the OP in the middle of the night for a free helicopter ride? I thought this country was fascist now. I thought open dissent wasn’t longer tolerated under Herr Trump?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Why hasn’t Trump’s Gestapo taken the OP in the middle of the night for a free helicopter ride? I thought this country was fascist now. I thought open dissent wasn’t longer tolerated under Herr Trump?

Non-fascist regimes and even otherwise non-authoritarian governments have used concentration camps. A particular human rights abuse doesn't necessarily mean that other human rights abuses will follow; that doesn't make it any more excusable.

Why hasn’t Trump’s Gestapo taken the OP in the middle of the night for a free helicopter ride? I thought this country was fascist now. I thought open dissent wasn’t longer tolerated under Herr Trump?

Yes, yes, friends, I know about the broader history of concentration camps from Cuba to the Boer Wars to Nazi Germany. I’m specifically referring to the OP’s hysterics. The longer he absorbs this bizarre “Nazi AmeriKKKa” narrative, the more concerned I am that he’ll start deluding himself that he’s one of “la resistance” fighters from a bad sixties WW2 movie and go out and shoot somebody.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Why hasn’t Trump’s Gestapo taken the OP in the middle of the night for a free helicopter ride? I thought this country was fascist now. I thought open dissent wasn’t longer tolerated under Herr Trump?

Non-fascist regimes and even otherwise non-authoritarian governments have used concentration camps. A particular human rights abuse doesn't necessarily mean that other human rights abuses will follow; that doesn't make it any more excusable.

Why hasn’t Trump’s Gestapo taken the OP in the middle of the night for a free helicopter ride? I thought this country was fascist now. I thought open dissent wasn’t longer tolerated under Herr Trump?

Yes, yes, friends, I know about the broader history of concentration camps from Cuba to the Boer Wars to Nazi Germany. I’m specifically referring to the OP’s hysterics. The longer he absorbs this bizarre “Nazi AmeriKKKa” narrative, the more concerned I am that he’ll start deluding himself that he’s one of “la resistance” fighters from a bad sixties WW2 movie and go out and shoot somebody.

You are the one who admitted to uncontrollable rage and harassment of the press. In that prior statement (here in Atlas) you said you went right-up to the press table at a trump rally, and flipped-off the reporters (and verbally assaulted them) right to their face.
And here you are worried about others "going out and shooting somebody?"
I think the general community should be fearful of YOU committing physical harm in our society.

Middle school must have been really hard for you.

[Fight for Trump]

Why hasn’t Trump’s Gestapo taken the OP in the middle of the night for a free helicopter ride? I thought this country was fascist now. I thought open dissent wasn’t longer tolerated under Herr Trump?

Non-fascist regimes and even otherwise non-authoritarian governments have used concentration camps. A particular human rights abuse doesn't necessarily mean that other human rights abuses will follow; that doesn't make it any more excusable.

Why hasn’t Trump’s Gestapo taken the OP in the middle of the night for a free helicopter ride? I thought this country was fascist now. I thought open dissent wasn’t longer tolerated under Herr Trump?

Yes, yes, friends, I know about the broader history of concentration camps from Cuba to the Boer Wars to Nazi Germany. I’m specifically referring to the OP’s hysterics. The longer he absorbs this bizarre “Nazi AmeriKKKa” narrative, the more concerned I am that he’ll start deluding himself that he’s one of “la resistance” fighters from a bad sixties WW2 movie and go out and shoot somebody.

You are the one who admitted to uncontrollable rage and harassment of the press. In that prior statement (here in Atlas) you said you went right-up to the press table at a trump rally, and flipped-off the reporters (and verbally assaulted them) right to their face.
And here you are worried about others "going out and shooting somebody?"
I think the general community should be fearful of YOU committing physical harm in our society.

Middle school must have been really hard for you.

At least he made it through.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Why hasn’t Trump’s Gestapo taken the OP in the middle of the night for a free helicopter ride? I thought this country was fascist now. I thought open dissent wasn’t longer tolerated under Herr Trump?

Non-fascist regimes and even otherwise non-authoritarian governments have used concentration camps. A particular human rights abuse doesn't necessarily mean that other human rights abuses will follow; that doesn't make it any more excusable.

Why hasn’t Trump’s Gestapo taken the OP in the middle of the night for a free helicopter ride? I thought this country was fascist now. I thought open dissent wasn’t longer tolerated under Herr Trump?

Yes, yes, friends, I know about the broader history of concentration camps from Cuba to the Boer Wars to Nazi Germany. I’m specifically referring to the OP’s hysterics. The longer he absorbs this bizarre “Nazi AmeriKKKa” narrative, the more concerned I am that he’ll start deluding himself that he’s one of “la resistance” fighters from a bad sixties WW2 movie and go out and shoot somebody.

You are the one who admitted to uncontrollable rage and harassment of the press. In that prior statement (here in Atlas) you said you went right-up to the press table at a trump rally, and flipped-off the reporters (and verbally assaulted them) right to their face.
And here you are worried about others "going out and shooting somebody?"
I think the general community should be fearful of YOU committing physical harm in our society.

Middle school must have been really hard for you.

At least he made it through.

Did he? He might still be in it. I can’t tell if he’s 12 or 82.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Attorneys: Texas border facility is neglecting migrant kids

Three girls told attorneys they were trying to take care of the 2-year-old boy, who had wet his pants and had no diaper and was wearing a mucus-smeared shirt when the legal team encountered him.

Binford described that during interviews with children in a conference room at the facility, “little kids are so tired they have been falling asleep on chairs and at the conference table.”

She said an 8-year-old taking care of a very small 4-year-old with matted hair couldn’t convince the little one to take a shower.

“In my 22 years of doing visits with children in detention, I have never heard of this level of inhumanity,” said Holly Cooper, who co-directs University of California, Davis’ Immigration Law Clinic and represents detained youth.

[The Dowager Mod]

It's a shame that the same people who are so morally outraged by sanctuary cities and confederate monuments being spray painted, can't screw up any outrage for babies being thrown into concentration camps and being made to sleep on bare concrete without any basic necessities.
But dehumanizing the weakest among us is the point for Republicans nowadays.

[Fuzzy Bear]

It's a shame that the same people who are so morally outraged by sanctuary cities and confederate monuments being spray painted, can't screw up any outrage for babies being thrown into concentration camps and being made to sleep on bare concrete without any basic necessities.
But dehumanizing the weakest among us is the point for Republicans nowadays.

I certainly believe that monies should be approved immediately to significantly increase the quantity and quality of these detention facilities for those slated for deportation, but the reason these facilities are as they are is the increase of illegal immigration which, frankly, is being encouraged by Trump's opponents, who oppose funding to remedy this situation because what they REALLY want is amnesty for all persons illegally here.  And this is unacceptable to me, and to millions of other Americans, who do not wish to shoulder the tax burden of taking on large numbers of unskilled persons, within whose ranks are a percentage of drug cartel agents, transnational gang members, along with a significant number of unskilled workers whose presence in the US will make it only harder for the structurally unemployed and the folks that occupy the present bottom of our economic rung.

These detention facilities (they are not "concentration camps" and it's a lie to portray them as such) are, indeed, overcrowded, but whose fault of that?  Open Borders crowds that oppose funding for the expansion and improvement of these facilities?  Leftists who encourage people to attempt to enter the United States illegally, in the hope that a Democratic President will allow them to stay come 2021?  These facilities are crappy because they are overwhelmed by persons who keep coming here illegally.  It's as simple as this.  And many of the people who are there had their asylum claims declared illegitimate, and they've been through the legal process; they're in the center because they failed to submit to deportation voluntarily.  Let's get real here.

I'm open to a wide range of possible "grand bargains" to immigration, but Open Borders is not one of them.  And that's what the Democratic Party advocates; Open Borders and no enforcement of immigration laws.  Open Borders may well bless the individuals breaking our laws to enter the US.  If it will be a blessing to law-abiding, taxpaying Americans, you'll have to make that case to me and spell it out.

[DavidB.]

People need to read and go back and study how the Holocaust unfolded. It might be uncomfortable for people to accept but the dehumanization of these migrants, refugees, and asylum seekers is very much the first step towards the heinous actions that occurred in Europe against the Jews.

No it's not.  The Jews didn't invade Germany.  Please stop pretending these are comparable instances.  My people were citizens of a country, rounded up like cattle, worked to death, and murdered for their religion and "race".  Nothing of the sort is happening in the United States, and the very idea of it is offensive to me.  

Amen.

Hope the wall will be there soon so that these detention centers won't be necessary anymore.

[Grassroots]

They should deport the entire family rather than separating them. Doing this only hurts our reputation as a party on this issue and leaves us vulnerable to sustained attack.

However, that doesn't excuse dems from being edgy and making holocaust references and etc. This is a bad policy but this is not dehumanization or anything even close to that. Saying so is disrespectful and offensive to holocaust victims and their families. Would you like it if someone used a genocide of your ancestors for political gain?

[Slander and/or Libel]

They should deport the entire family rather than separating them. Doing this only hurts our reputation as a party on this issue and leaves us vulnerable to sustained attack.

However, that doesn't excuse dems from being edgy and making holocaust references and etc. This is a bad policy but this is not dehumanization or anything even close to that. Saying so is disrespectful and offensive to holocaust victims and their families. Would you like it if someone used a genocide of your ancestors for political gain?

Good to know your human compassion extends exactly as far as what will gain you partisan advantage.

[ProudModerate2]

They should deport the entire family rather than separating them. Doing this only hurts our reputation as a party on this issue and leaves us vulnerable to sustained attack.

However, that doesn't excuse dems from being edgy and making holocaust references and etc. This is a bad policy but this is not dehumanization or anything even close to that. Saying so is disrespectful and offensive to holocaust victims and their families. Would you like it if someone used a genocide of your ancestors for political gain?

Good to know your human compassion extends exactly as far as what will gain you partisan advantage.

Spot on!

[Beet]

The reality is we're all "invaders" in the grand scheme of things. The difference is that one group actually came as a part of a military invasion-- bearing guns, smallpox, and genocide. For the descendants of those people to be lecturing others for coming peacefully is rich.

And yeah, whatever is going on in these camps is inhumane. It is a stain on the US just like Japanese internment was.

[Brittain33]

People need to read and go back and study how the Holocaust unfolded. It might be uncomfortable for people to accept but the dehumanization of these migrants, refugees, and asylum seekers is very much the first step towards the heinous actions that occurred in Europe against the Jews.

 

No it's not.  The Jews didn't invade Germany.  Please stop pretending these are comparable instances.  My people were citizens of a country, rounded up like cattle, worked to death, and murdered for their religion and "race".  Nothing of the sort is happening in the United States, and the very idea of it is offensive to me.  

From one Jew to another, go educate yourself about the migration of Polish Jews to Germany and Vienna in the first third of the 20th century, especially during wwI from Galicia. You will be uncomfortable and unhappy about the parallels and how it fed Viennese anti-Semitism that formed Hitler.

[The Dowager Mod]

Appalling.
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1142229485338673153

[Brittain33]

People need to read and go back and study how the Holocaust unfolded. It might be uncomfortable for people to accept but the dehumanization of these migrants, refugees, and asylum seekers is very much the first step towards the heinous actions that occurred in Europe against the Jews.

No it's not.  The Jews didn't invade Germany.  Please stop pretending these are comparable instances.  My people were citizens of a country, rounded up like cattle, worked to death, and murdered for their religion and "race".  Nothing of the sort is happening in the United States, and the very idea of it is offensive to me.  

Amen.

Hope the wall will be there soon so that these detention centers won't be necessary anymore.

David B., what event happened in Germany in the 10 days before Kristallnacht, leading to Herschel Grynszpan’s shooting the bureaucrat in Paris?

[DavidB.]

People need to read and go back and study how the Holocaust unfolded. It might be uncomfortable for people to accept but the dehumanization of these migrants, refugees, and asylum seekers is very much the first step towards the heinous actions that occurred in Europe against the Jews.

No it's not.  The Jews didn't invade Germany.  Please stop pretending these are comparable instances.  My people were citizens of a country, rounded up like cattle, worked to death, and murdered for their religion and "race".  Nothing of the sort is happening in the United States, and the very idea of it is offensive to me.  

Amen.

Hope the wall will be there soon so that these detention centers won't be necessary anymore.

David B., what event happened in Germany in the 10 days before Kristallnacht, leading to Herschel Grynszpan’s shooting the bureaucrat in Paris?

Cheap Godwin. Grynszpan's parents were deported to Poland. They were German citizens. Not the same as people voluntarily moving to the U.S., and Latin American countries aren't comparable to Nazi Germany.

[afleitch]

People need to read and go back and study how the Holocaust unfolded. It might be uncomfortable for people to accept but the dehumanization of these migrants, refugees, and asylum seekers is very much the first step towards the heinous actions that occurred in Europe against the Jews.

No it's not.  The Jews didn't invade Germany.  Please stop pretending these are comparable instances.  My people were citizens of a country, rounded up like cattle, worked to death, and murdered for their religion and "race".  Nothing of the sort is happening in the United States, and the very idea of it is offensive to me.  

Amen.

Hope the wall will be there soon so that these detention centers won't be necessary anymore.

The Jew's weren't thought of as invaders by the Nazi regime? Interesting....what a senseless misunderstanding...

[Fuzzy Bear]

People need to read and go back and study how the Holocaust unfolded. It might be uncomfortable for people to accept but the dehumanization of these migrants, refugees, and asylum seekers is very much the first step towards the heinous actions that occurred in Europe against the Jews.

No it's not.  The Jews didn't invade Germany.  Please stop pretending these are comparable instances.  My people were citizens of a country, rounded up like cattle, worked to death, and murdered for their religion and "race".  Nothing of the sort is happening in the United States, and the very idea of it is offensive to me.  

Amen.

Hope the wall will be there soon so that these detention centers won't be necessary anymore.

[Ban my account ffs!]

People need to read and go back and study how the Holocaust unfolded. It might be uncomfortable for people to accept but the dehumanization of these migrants, refugees, and asylum seekers is very much the first step towards the heinous actions that occurred in Europe against the Jews.

No it's not.  The Jews didn't invade Germany.  Please stop pretending these are comparable instances.  My people were citizens of a country, rounded up like cattle, worked to death, and murdered for their religion and "race".  Nothing of the sort is happening in the United States, and the very idea of it is offensive to me. 

Amen.

Hope the wall will be there soon so that these detention centers won't be necessary anymore.

David B., what event happened in Germany in the 10 days before Kristallnacht, leading to Herschel Grynszpan’s shooting the bureaucrat in Paris?

Cheap Godwin. Grynszpan's parents were deported to Poland. They were German citizens. Not the same as people voluntarily moving to the U.S., and Latin American countries aren't comparable to Nazi Germany.

After 1935, Jews were not citizens of Germany.  They were state subjects under the law.  You and other blue avatars in this thread and elsewhere have made the argument over and over again that these immigrants in the US are subject to the law (which they 'broke') and that if we don't like the law then we need to change it.

Citizenship, rights, all of it... are subject to revocation at any time.  Especially when you need them most.