Elizabeth Warren 2020 campaign megathread

[JGibson]

Again for the millionth time, the candidate that Wall Street fears is Elizabeth Warren. They don't fear Bernie and never have because they don't think he can get anything done even if he was elected. Warren scares the crap out of them because she's already been a thorn in their side and with the power of the Presidency they know she will go after them.

 The candidate that has investment bankers and hedge fund managers shaking in their boots is the one America needs.

Agreed.

[IceSpear]

So I'm curious, have there been any actual substantive criticisms of Warren from the left? Or has it just been "she's a neoliberal corporate shill bcuz i sed so"

[Holy Unifying Centrist]

So I'm curious, have there been any actual substantive criticisms of Warren from the left? Or has it just been "she's a neoliberal corporate shill bcuz i sed so"

Criticism of her voting for one of Trump's military packages is legitimate IMO.

Of course, I'm not against Warren from the left. I think she is far too liberal

[Statilius the Epicurean]

None of this has anything to do with what I said.  I support Warren's work in the CFPB and in general going after bad financial products and shady credit, rating and auditing practices like those that led to the great recession.  But we got that with the Obama-Biden administration, and things have been pretty solid since.  You don't need an overzealous revenge-warrior to get it done.  You just need a sensible, practical politician like Obama or Biden who can work within the bounds of the system.

Yeah, the Obama-Biden administration did a great job at prosecuting the people in the financial industry who ruined millions of people's lives by causing the Great Recession with reckless and criminal lending! An "overzealous revenge-warrior" in the White House might have dangerously upset the gravy train.

[GeneralMacArthur]

None of this has anything to do with what I said.  I support Warren's work in the CFPB and in general going after bad financial products and shady credit, rating and auditing practices like those that led to the great recession.  But we got that with the Obama-Biden administration, and things have been pretty solid since.  You don't need an overzealous revenge-warrior to get it done.  You just need a sensible, practical politician like Obama or Biden who can work within the bounds of the system.

Yeah, the Obama-Biden administration did a great job at prosecuting the people in the financial industry who ruined millions of people's lives by causing the Great Recession with reckless and criminal lending! An "overzealous revenge-warrior" in the White House might have dangerously upset the gravy train.

See, there it is.  You don't want a fair economy.  You don't want everyone to have a better shot.  You don't want income equality or economic growth.

You want to punish the bankers.  You want to throw people in jail.  That doesn't do anything for the economy.  But it gives you that sweet, satisfying revenge.

If that's your priority, great.  Vote for Warren.  She's the overzealous revenge-warrior you've dreamed of.

But don't act like you're voting for her for some other reason.  Be honest.

[Devout Centrist]

None of this has anything to do with what I said.  I support Warren's work in the CFPB and in general going after bad financial products and shady credit, rating and auditing practices like those that led to the great recession.  But we got that with the Obama-Biden administration, and things have been pretty solid since.  You don't need an overzealous revenge-warrior to get it done.  You just need a sensible, practical politician like Obama or Biden who can work within the bounds of the system.

Yeah, the Obama-Biden administration did a great job at prosecuting the people in the financial industry who ruined millions of people's lives by causing the Great Recession with reckless and criminal lending! An "overzealous revenge-warrior" in the White House might have dangerously upset the gravy train.

See, there it is.  You don't want a fair economy.  You don't want everyone to have a better shot.  You don't want income equality or economic growth.

You want to punish the bankers.  You want to throw people in jail.  That doesn't do anything for the economy.  But it gives you that sweet, satisfying revenge.

If that's your priority, great.  Vote for Warren.  She's the overzealous revenge-warrior you've dreamed of.

What the hell are you on about? Are you seriously suggesting that prosecuting the folks responsible for one of the worst financial crises in history means ignoring wider economic problems?

There was and still is a clear case to prosecute these actors. I'll also point that Dodd-Frank was a watered down compromise that left plenty of room for gross abuse and fraud by financial institutions. AND on top of that, the law has been effectively repealed in the past two years.

This isn't about revenge; it's about preventing future financial crises and abuse,

[Statilius the Epicurean]

None of this has anything to do with what I said.  I support Warren's work in the CFPB and in general going after bad financial products and shady credit, rating and auditing practices like those that led to the great recession.  But we got that with the Obama-Biden administration, and things have been pretty solid since.  You don't need an overzealous revenge-warrior to get it done.  You just need a sensible, practical politician like Obama or Biden who can work within the bounds of the system.

Yeah, the Obama-Biden administration did a great job at prosecuting the people in the financial industry who ruined millions of people's lives by causing the Great Recession with reckless and criminal lending! An "overzealous revenge-warrior" in the White House might have dangerously upset the gravy train.

See, there it is.  You don't want a fair economy.  You don't want everyone to have a better shot.  You don't want income equality or economic growth.

You want to punish the bankers.  You want to throw people in jail.  That doesn't do anything for the economy.  But it gives you that sweet, satisfying revenge.

If that's your priority, great.  Vote for Warren.  She's the overzealous revenge-warrior you've dreamed of.

But don't act like you're voting for her for some other reason.  Be honest.

I don't have a vote, obviously.

What I would like to see though is a US President who didn't help pass a law preventing vulnerable people from claiming medical bankruptcy because his major donors were credit card companies headquartered in his home state.

[Mr. Smith]

None of this has anything to do with what I said.  I support Warren's work in the CFPB and in general going after bad financial products and shady credit, rating and auditing practices like those that led to the great recession.  But we got that with the Obama-Biden administration, and things have been pretty solid since.  You don't need an overzealous revenge-warrior to get it done.  You just need a sensible, practical politician like Obama or Biden who can work within the bounds of the system.

Yeah, the Obama-Biden administration did a great job at prosecuting the people in the financial industry who ruined millions of people's lives by causing the Great Recession with reckless and criminal lending! An "overzealous revenge-warrior" in the White House might have dangerously upset the gravy train.

See, there it is.  You don't want a fair economy.  You don't want everyone to have a better shot.  You don't want income equality or economic growth.

You want to punish the bankers.  You want to throw people in jail.  That doesn't do anything for the economy.  But it gives you that sweet, satisfying revenge.

If that's your priority, great.  Vote for Warren.  She's the overzealous revenge-warrior you've dreamed of.

But don't act like you're voting for her for some other reason.  Be honest.

Buh, buh, muh "Atlas shouldn't look like Breitbart comments"!

[GeneralMacArthur]

None of this has anything to do with what I said.  I support Warren's work in the CFPB and in general going after bad financial products and shady credit, rating and auditing practices like those that led to the great recession.  But we got that with the Obama-Biden administration, and things have been pretty solid since.  You don't need an overzealous revenge-warrior to get it done.  You just need a sensible, practical politician like Obama or Biden who can work within the bounds of the system.

Yeah, the Obama-Biden administration did a great job at prosecuting the people in the financial industry who ruined millions of people's lives by causing the Great Recession with reckless and criminal lending! An "overzealous revenge-warrior" in the White House might have dangerously upset the gravy train.

See, there it is.  You don't want a fair economy.  You don't want everyone to have a better shot.  You don't want income equality or economic growth.

You want to punish the bankers.  You want to throw people in jail.  That doesn't do anything for the economy.  But it gives you that sweet, satisfying revenge.

If that's your priority, great.  Vote for Warren.  She's the overzealous revenge-warrior you've dreamed of.

But don't act like you're voting for her for some other reason.  Be honest.

Buh, buh, muh "Atlas shouldn't look like Breitbart comments"!

Hmmmm, so in the other thread I was complaining about Democrats reposting propaganda from Hannity's orbit.  And here I'm voicing a policy disagreement that a solid majority of Americans have with Warren.  Clearly these two are exactly equivalent.

[GoTfan]

None of this has anything to do with what I said.  I support Warren's work in the CFPB and in general going after bad financial products and shady credit, rating and auditing practices like those that led to the great recession.  But we got that with the Obama-Biden administration, and things have been pretty solid since.  You don't need an overzealous revenge-warrior to get it done.  You just need a sensible, practical politician like Obama or Biden who can work within the bounds of the system.

Yeah, the Obama-Biden administration did a great job at prosecuting the people in the financial industry who ruined millions of people's lives by causing the Great Recession with reckless and criminal lending! An "overzealous revenge-warrior" in the White House might have dangerously upset the gravy train.

See, there it is.  You don't want a fair economy.  You don't want everyone to have a better shot.  You don't want income equality or economic growth.

You want to punish the bankers.  You want to throw people in jail.  That doesn't do anything for the economy.  But it gives you that sweet, satisfying revenge.

If that's your priority, great.  Vote for Warren.  She's the overzealous revenge-warrior you've dreamed of.

But don't act like you're voting for her for some other reason.  Be honest.

Buh, buh, muh "Atlas shouldn't look like Breitbart comments"!

Hmmmm, so in the other thread I was complaining about Democrats reposting propaganda from Hannity's orbit.  And here I'm voicing a policy disagreement that a solid majority of Americans have with Warren.  Clearly these two are exactly equivalent.

By your standards, FDR was an overzealous revenge warrior.

His Preisidency seemed to go alright.

[KaiserDave]

What even is this conversation

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

So I'm curious, have there been any actual substantive criticisms of Warren from the left? Or has it just been "she's a neoliberal corporate shill bcuz i sed so"

I have to respectfully disagree with her on her approach to the Democratic establishment. For lack of a better word, I view them as unwilling to even consider making her agenda law in Congress, not to mention their unwarranted holier-than-thou attitude and general incompetence.

I left the party in 2014 after they attached Dodd-Frank repeal to the cromnibus bill. I rejoined some time in 2016, thinking Bernie was the right candidate. I thought there was some hope that the party would incorporate people like me. Instead, they decided to elect a serial appeaser who worked to dismantle Obama's signature foreign policy achievement as their leader in the Senate, doubled down on Dodd-Frank repeals, purged the left from DNC leadership, and continued to attack the left long after primary season ended. For lack of a better word, the proxy battle between The Squad and the establishment, where Pelosi's successor openly attacked AOC and broke her ordered truce, is the point of no return. My state party is a different story, but I feel no attachment to the national party.

There's also the fact that the Democratic establishment is so hyperfocused on resumes, electability, and "21st-century campaigning" that they've forgotten how to campaign - let alone wield their power. Take the Colorado Senate race for example - instead of letting the field play out and supporting the best candidate, they decided to crown someone from the right wing of the party in a D-trending state as their nominee because of his resume as Governor. If the establishment persuaded Ducey to appoint Cindy McCain instead of McSally, the uproar would be huge. Instead, it's likely we're going to give another D-trending seat to another moderate based on his "electability" - because that worked so well for so many other candidates.

I would hope I'm wrong, but I don't trust the Democratic establishment to bring in a leftist agenda like Warren's or Sanders's. I don't trust the Democrats' campaign arms to support Medicare for All or a Green New Deal, because they're so focused on how to remain "electable" instead of implementing their agenda. I don't view these people as a group to work with, not only because they're to Warren's right, but because of their egregious incompetence.

[GP270watch]

I think there is such a generational shift happening that it doesn't matter what corporate Democrats want, they have 4-10 years left tops. There isn't going to be less AOC's. The young generation that travels all around the world and can see things with their own eyes isn't going to be afraid of socialized medicine because some news chanel or insurance lobbyman has scary talking points.

 We will keep seeing the shift for the better I believe.

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

I think there is such a generational shift happening that it doesn't matter what corporate Democrats want, they have 4-10 years left tops. There isn't going to be less AOC's. The young generation that travels all around the world and can see things with their own eyes isn't going to be afraid of socialized medicine because some news chanel or insurance lobbyman has scary talking points.

 We will keep seeing the shift for the better I believe.

We can only hope.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

I think there is such a generational shift happening that it doesn't matter what corporate Democrats want, they have 4-10 years left tops. There isn't going to be less AOC's. The young generation that travels all around the world and can see things with their own eyes isn't going to be afraid of socialized medicine because some news chanel or insurance lobbyman has scary talking points.

 We will keep seeing the shift for the better I believe.

If the next generation has money to "travel all around the world", I don't want to hear a peep about student loan forgiveness under any circumstances. I am thankful that American government is set up to stonewall all of this.

The last thing people should be doing is selfish and dirty world travel over starting families and prudently saving.

[GP270watch]

If the next generation has money to "travel all around the world", I don't want to hear a peep about student loan forgiveness under any circumstances. I am thankful that American government us set up to stonewall all of this.

The last thing people should be doing is selfish and dirty world travel over starting families and prudently saving.

What money to travel? This isn't the 1960s grandpa, flights cost virtually nothing and millennials travel on the cheap backpacking and staying in Air bnb. They also don't care about owning crap, they rather have experiences. So they spend money on travel rather than possessions. This is actually very healthy for a person's wellbeing and psychology. Owning a bunch of stuff can weigh you down psychologically, while having adventures and experiences with friends has been shown to lead to more happiness.

 Europeans also travel more than us because they have more vacation time, and they also have socialized medicine (the horror), and nowhere near the student debt we have. Maybe if you travel or pick up a book, you would know this.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

They also don't care about owning crap, they rather have experiences. So they spend money on travel rather than possessions.

It's funny how often I hear this while I know I will see just about every young person on the street back in their Canada Goose jackets next month. (And who knows what luxury item will be added as a new ubiquitous item for 2019). I guess the going rate for the coat is equal to just two of these 'extremely cheap' European flights so no big deal spending it.

It's not an either-or between spending on experience vs. material possessions. It's an either-or between selfish (or at least ill-advised) spending and fulfilling adult obligations.

[Higgins]

If the next generation has money to "travel all around the world", I don't want to hear a peep about student loan forgiveness under any circumstances. I am thankful that American government us set up to stonewall all of this.

The last thing people should be doing is selfish and dirty world travel over starting families and prudently saving.

What money to travel? This isn't the 1960s grandpa, flights cost virtually nothing and millennials travel on the cheap backpacking and staying in Air bnb. They also don't care about owning crap, they rather have experiences. So they spend money on travel rather than possessions. This is actually very healthy for a person's wellbeing and psychology. Owning a bunch of stuff can weigh you down psychologically, while having adventures and experiences with friends has been shown to lead to more happiness.

 Europeans also travel more than us because they have more vacation time, and they also have socialized medicine (the horror), and nowhere near the student debt we have. Maybe if you travel or pick up a book, you would know this.

Millenial here. My girlfriend - who works as a bartender and supervisor at her job, and I work two jobs 7 days a week - between us we don't have the money to go backpacking across the world and Air BnB it. Also, because unlike you we have a respect for history and tradition, we have possessions. Being a trust fund recipient must be nice though.

Also, the Europeans travel more probably because most of European is located all on one continent in a relatively small area overall whereas international travel from the US requires a flight that is a few hundred dollars anyway you take it.

Also, nice ageism you got going there.

[GP270watch]

 Also, because unlike you we have a respect for history and tradition, we have possessions. Being a trust fund recipient must be nice though.

No idea wtf this is even supposed to mean.

Also, the Europeans travel more probably because most of European is located all on one continent in a relatively small area overall whereas international travel from the US requires a flight that is a few hundred dollars anyway you take it.

 The United States is the only developed country in the world without legally required paid vacation days or holidays. All the countries in the European Union have at least four work weeks of paid vacation by law. Again, pickup a book or travel you might learn something.

 If Sprouts doesn't want to sound like a geezer don't complain about people flying in airplanes and wearing puff jackets, dude literally sounds like Abe Simpson.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

 The United States is the only developed country in the world without legally required paid vacation days or holidays. All the countries in the European Union have at least four work weeks of paid vacation by law. Again, pickup a book or travel you might learn something.

 If Sprouts doesn't want to sound like a geezer don't complain about people flying in airplanes and wearing puff jackets, dude literally sounds like Abe Simpson.

In spite of the fact that a few menial jobs don't come with vacation days, the average American takes 17 vacation days and 10 piaid holidays. That's dragged down by quite a few zeros skewing the set. America is hardly out of line with the rest of the world in practice. I have five weeks (with no experience to add on even more time) with three weeks worth of holidays, and I know multiple companies switching to an unlimited model recently (which is actually worse because it's a struggle to use the allotted time, and the competition would pressure you to take less time - but the option would be there!)

This isn't a question about having time. It's a question about funds and whether it is a just use of money over paying debt and bearing children. I am ashamed of the imprudence of the millennial generation.

You keep saying "pick up a book" (the ultimate insult of an elderly person), and it seems you mean "pick up the campaign literature that presents an incredibly stretched definition of reality in order to cause fear and/or loathing." I read plenty of books that represent actually cultured topics, not propaganda. And I refuse to waste money on useless and environmentally disastrous activities like world travel.

[GP270watch]

In spite of the fact that a few menial jobs don't come with vacation days, the average American takes 17 vacation days and 10 piaid holidays. That's dragged down by quite a few zeros skewing the set.

 What's a few "menial" jobs? Why don't these workers deserve vacation if they are accruing work hours?

 30% of Americans are considered lower class and the median income of that group was $25,624 in 2016. Exactly how much vacation time do you think this group is getting?

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

In spite of the fact that a few menial jobs don't come with vacation days, the average American takes 17 vacation days and 10 piaid holidays. That's dragged down by quite a few zeros skewing the set.

 What's a few "menial" jobs? Why don't these workers deserve vacation if they are accruing work hours?

 30% of Americans are considered lower class and the median income of that group was $25,624 in 2016. Exactly how much vacation time do you think this group is getting?

An extremely limited number of days but some of this may be seasonal work. I already said there are quite a few zeroes dragging down the average, which is largely in line with the rest of the world. Regardless, you're the one who made this debate about sweeping generalizations of the millennial generation traveling the world so I only discussed that segment of millennials. I'm glad to suddenly hear 'they' are not able to travel (or at least the 30 percent of them who were clearly not part of the original disagreement). You can say conflicting things about a population that really only apply to 30 percent of a population segment all day long.

[GP270watch]

In spite of the fact that a few menial jobs don't come with vacation days, the average American takes 17 vacation days and 10 piaid holidays. That's dragged down by quite a few zeros skewing the set.

 What's a few "menial" jobs? Why don't these workers deserve vacation if they are accruing work hours?

 30% of Americans are considered lower class and the median income of that group was $25,624 in 2016. Exactly how much vacation time do you think this group is getting?

An extremely limited number of days but some of this may be seasonal work. I already said there are quite a few zeroes dragging down the average, which is largely in line with the rest of the world. Regardless, you're the one who made this debate about sweeping generalizations of the millennial generation traveling the world so I only discussed that segment of millennials. I'm glad to suddenly hear 'they' are not able to travel (or at least the 30 percent of them who were clearly not part of the original disagreement). You can say conflicting things about a population that really only apply to 30 percent of a population segment all day long.

 1 in 4 Americans receive no paid vacation days at all. So it's not a few as you easily dismissed.

 I didn't say all millennials are traveling. Many millennials are struggling but some who are earning money are not filling their lives with empty consumerism and useless possessions and that's actually a very positive trend.

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Does anyone think that Warren's wealth tax might be intentionally designed to fail?  If it passes, it's almost certainly going to be challenged as unconstitutional in the courts, and the Supreme Court will ultimately rule on it.  The Roberts Court will unquestionably seize on any excuse to strike it down, but could that eventually play to Democrats' advantage?  For one, there are other changes to the tax code that could be easily implemented (relatively speaking) that would accomplish a lot of the same goals without facing such Constitutional challenges (a large inheritance tax, for instance).  Additionally, her wealth tax proposal should likely prove very popular and seem fairer to most people than higher income taxes would.  If a conservative Supreme Court majority that half the country already views as illegitimate intervenes to protect 75,000 of the country's richest people from having to pay just 2% of their extreme wealth...wouldn't that be the kind of attack on economic fairness that might boost calls to reform the judiciary (i.e. pack the courts)?

[GP270watch]

 That seems like an awfully cynical take and Warren has already answered critiques of pushback to her method of taxation. The wealthy already value their possessions for the purposes of insurance and accounting. If you own a painting that is valued at $100,000,000 you damn sure have it insured against theft or damage. So it would be very easy to find the assigned value of exotic investments and possessions. And if the assets are artificially inflated her taxation system would also be good at bringing it back down to real world values. A lot of Art collecting is a big scam that the rich use to launder and borrow money, as many investigative pieces have discovered.

 Warren decided to pursue this method of taxation, for the very reason of tax sheltering, she didn't want the wealthy to hide their wealth so that it wasn't taxable.