Justice Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearing *DISCUSSION AND LIVE COMMENTARY*

[Slander and/or Libel]

Instead, this thing has been managed to where people now do have reason to launch false allegations.  At best, it gives people motive to inflate actual circumstances of bad behavior decades ago to the level of an unpunished sex crime.  There are those who would try this, and that will be a disaster when it happens.  But now we are in a lose-lose situation.  If Kavanaugh is confirmed, millions of Americans will believe there is a rapist on the Court.  If Kavanaugh is rejected, he will forever be a martyr by some, setting back the legitimate cause of sexual assault victims because there is little possibility of public consensus on this issue at this point.

I think America is better off if we say "No" to Kavanaugh at this point, but we have been harmed as a nation by the way this is turning out.

people who voted to make a rapist president of the united states have zero room to pontificate about How Harmful This Process Is To Our Nation here, buddy.

Y'all voted for a woman who protected her rapist husband and had no issues with the character assassination of his victims. How about we stop pretending the Dem candidate was any better?

“Rape is bad and you’re wrong to have supported a woman who abetted her husband’s bad acts and therefore I’m going to support an actual rapist and not feel bad about it” is truly a Galaxy brain take, my dude.

How funny is it that the person who's been frequently polluting this thread with takes about how there is no evidence that Kavanaugh has done anything has no problem with asserting with all certainty that Bill was a rapist and that Hillary ran cover for him despite, uh, also having no evidence 

100%. Though I also enjoy when an argument falls on its face even taking it a own assumptions for granted.

[Pyro]

Sarah Sanders: WH is "open" to having Ramirez speak on Thursday. Washington Post Article

[Devout Centrist]

Instead, this thing has been managed to where people now do have reason to launch false allegations.  At best, it gives people motive to inflate actual circumstances of bad behavior decades ago to the level of an unpunished sex crime.  There are those who would try this, and that will be a disaster when it happens.  But now we are in a lose-lose situation.  If Kavanaugh is confirmed, millions of Americans will believe there is a rapist on the Court.  If Kavanaugh is rejected, he will forever be a martyr by some, setting back the legitimate cause of sexual assault victims because there is little possibility of public consensus on this issue at this point.

I think America is better off if we say "No" to Kavanaugh at this point, but we have been harmed as a nation by the way this is turning out.

people who voted to make a rapist president of the united states have zero room to pontificate about How Harmful This Process Is To Our Nation here, buddy.

Y'all voted for a woman who protected her rapist husband and had no issues with the character assassination of his victims. How about we stop pretending the Dem candidate was any better?

Sjoyce: “Trump is a rapist”
Fhtagn: “oh yeah, well, Hillary was married to a rapist! Take that libtard!”

[KingSweden]

Sarah Sanders: WH is "open" to having Ramirez speak on Thursday. Washington Post Article

*raises eyebrow*

[Badger]

I also find it interesting since death threats have been mentioned by numerous people on here that not a single one of them have expressed any sort of concern for the fact that Kavanaugh and his family have been receiving them as well. But I guess since he's the accused he doesn't deserve anyone's concern, nor do his wife and kids, amirite?

Why are you such a combative, mean-spirited person in every thread you post in? Not a single Democrat here has expressed any support for the death threats you're talking about (this is the first I'm hearing of them) and obviously we all strongly condemn them. You know this, but as usual you'd rather get a "sick burn" in on the libs than have a sincere, good-faith discussion.

Get back to me when the majority of this thread actually cares about a good faith discussion instead of labeling someone a rapist with no evidence, yourself included.

The comments about death threats on here have been related to ones against Ford. None of them mention the ones received by Kavanaugh and his family, which have been reported by several news outlets, so it's not likely for it to have been missed. So no, it isn't obvious you all strongly condemn them, it's only obvious that you condemn them when they're directed towards the person you're supporting.


And helpful tip for some folks on here: If you actually expect someone to take your points seriously and be willing to have a "good faith discussion", reducing differing opinions to "triggering the libs" or "you'd rather get a 'sick burn' on the libs" isn't the smartest route to take.

When differing opinions appear based in no more than triggering the libs getting a sick burn, that would seem to be the obvious conclusion. Circumstantial evidence works that way.

[Badger]

Instead, this thing has been managed to where people now do have reason to launch false allegations.  At best, it gives people motive to inflate actual circumstances of bad behavior decades ago to the level of an unpunished sex crime.  There are those who would try this, and that will be a disaster when it happens.  But now we are in a lose-lose situation.  If Kavanaugh is confirmed, millions of Americans will believe there is a rapist on the Court.  If Kavanaugh is rejected, he will forever be a martyr by some, setting back the legitimate cause of sexual assault victims because there is little possibility of public consensus on this issue at this point.

I think America is better off if we say "No" to Kavanaugh at this point, but we have been harmed as a nation by the way this is turning out.

people who voted to make a rapist president of the united states have zero room to pontificate about How Harmful This Process Is To Our Nation here, buddy.

Y'all voted for a woman who protected her rapist husband and had no issues with the character assassination of his victims. How about we stop pretending the Dem candidate was any better?

False equivalency is false.

[RINO Tom]

How come Dean Heller is not undecided?

Shouldn't he be pretending that he's a moderate right now?

Democrats aren’t going to vote for him regardless of what he does, but he desperately needs the R base to come out for him.

He obviously needs the "R base" (whoever comprises that group, and however it is defined) and more, just like any other candidate.

[IndustrialJustice]

Defending Kavanaugh at this point essentially requires you to believe everything he and his PR team have put out there, so it now forces you to buy the obvious lie that he didn't mean anything by that dumb sex-brag in his Yearbook caption (because even copping to that now would make Kavanaugh feel like he's giving the game away).

He's probably also lying about remaining a virgin into his twenties, but nothing he's been accused of is even slightly inconsistent with rich incel behavior. But, again, this is merely a matter of credibility now, so to get Kavanaugh on the court his defenders have to pretend this is a big conspiracy that national Democrats and his accusers are in on together, and Kavanaugh is a man of sterling reputation who is being screwed over in an incomprehensibly specific manner by a litany of people in his past who have no reason to ruin their lives by accusing him of (at least, in all cases) sexual assault.

Amazingly, this probably would have been easier for Republicans if Kavanaugh had copped to the acts and said he's changed greatly over the last three decades and that his youth shouldn't define him. Instead, he's calling everyone except him a liar, so this is what you get.

[fhtagn]

Instead, this thing has been managed to where people now do have reason to launch false allegations.  At best, it gives people motive to inflate actual circumstances of bad behavior decades ago to the level of an unpunished sex crime.  There are those who would try this, and that will be a disaster when it happens.  But now we are in a lose-lose situation.  If Kavanaugh is confirmed, millions of Americans will believe there is a rapist on the Court.  If Kavanaugh is rejected, he will forever be a martyr by some, setting back the legitimate cause of sexual assault victims because there is little possibility of public consensus on this issue at this point.

I think America is better off if we say "No" to Kavanaugh at this point, but we have been harmed as a nation by the way this is turning out.

people who voted to make a rapist president of the united states have zero room to pontificate about How Harmful This Process Is To Our Nation here, buddy.

Y'all voted for a woman who protected her rapist husband and had no issues with the character assassination of his victims. How about we stop pretending the Dem candidate was any better?

“Rape is bad and you’re wrong to have supported a woman who abetted her husband’s bad acts and therefore I’m going to support an actual rapist and not feel bad about it” is truly a Galaxy brain take, my dude.

How funny is it that the person who's been frequently polluting this thread with takes about how there is no evidence that Kavanaugh has done anything has no problem with asserting with all certainty that Bill was a rapist and that Hillary ran cover for him despite, uh, also having no evidence 

100%. Though I also enjoy when an argument falls on its face even taking it a own assumptions for granted.

Except
1. I never voted for Trump, nor have I ever supported him.
2. Referring to Bill as a rapist was more of a jab at the fact that people here seem to be fine with labeling someone a rapist based on accusations.
3. Allegations against Bill have people who can corroborate victim stories from the time of the incident, court records, a longstanding pattern of behavior that suggests his involvement with several women, and accounts that put Bill and the victims in the same places around the same time of the incidents (and that he knew and associated with these women), something Kavanaugh doesn't have.

But I get it, it's only okay to suggest when a conservative mistreats women, which is why Kavanaugh and Thomas are bad. But it's not okay when someone liberals like are accused, such as Clinton or Ellison, despite having at least as much, if not, more evidence to suggest their involvement in these acts. At most they get a nod with  "well yeah what they did was bad" and are quickly never spoken of again, despite one of them still being an ongoing case.

Since we are also including actions someone supposedly did as a teenager, we also have Cory Booker, who has admitted to groping a woman when he was 15, even after he admits she rejected his advances on his first attempt, and she came to him after admitting she was drunk and didn't know what she was doing. But people think he'd make a fine choice for President one day.

[IndustrialJustice]

Bill Clinton is almost certainly a rapist, and Brett Kavanaugh is almost certainly guilty of sexual assault at some point in his life. Next.

[fhtagn]

Instead, he's calling everyone except him a liar, so this is what you get.

Except that's not really the case. Even the people named by the accusers as being present in these incidents have said it didn't happen, and one even said she didn't even know him.

Are you suggesting we should ignore them because the accuser's claim is what matters most?

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

If Brett Kavanaugh is "guilty of sexual assault" then so are the vast majority of men. He's clearly not an "incel" when he was such a mostly well-behaved young boy. Completely voluntary, waiting for his beautiful wife.

[Shadows]

Kavanaugh’s Yearbook Page Is ‘Horrible, Hurtful’ to a Woman It Named

The word “Renate” appears at least 14 times in Georgetown Preparatory School’s 1983 yearbook, on individuals’ pages and in a group photo of nine football players, including Judge Kavanaugh, who were described as the “Renate Alumni.” It is a reference to Renate Schroeder, then a student at a nearby Catholic girls’ school. Two of Judge Kavanaugh’s classmates say the mentions of Renate were part of the football players’ unsubstantiated boasting about their conquests.

This month, Renate Schroeder Dolphin joined 64 other women who, saying they knew Judge Kavanaugh during their high school years, signed a letter to the leaders of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which is weighing Judge Kavanaugh’s nomination. The letter stated that “he has behaved honorably and treated women with respect.” When Ms. Dolphin signed the Sept. 14 letter, she wasn’t aware of the “Renate” yearbook references on the pages of Judge Kavanaugh and his football teammates.

“I learned about these yearbook pages only a few days ago,” Ms. Dolphin said in a statement to The New York Times. “I don’t know what ‘Renate Alumnus’ actually means. I can’t begin to comprehend what goes through the minds of 17-year-old boys who write such things, but the insinuation is horrible, hurtful and simply untrue. I pray their daughters are never treated this way. I will have no further comment.”

Alexandra Walsh, a lawyer for Judge Kavanaugh, said in a statement: “Judge Kavanaugh was friends with Renate Dolphin in high school. He admired her very much then, and he admires her to this day.“J udge Kavanaugh and Ms. Dolphin attended one high school event together and shared a brief kiss good night following that event,” the statement continued. “They had no other such encounter. The language from Judge Kavanaugh’s high school yearbook refers to the fact that he and Ms. Dolphin attended that one high school event together and nothing else.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/24/business/brett-kavanaugh-yearbook-renate.html

What a scumbag rapist Kavanaugh was !

[Stranger in a strange land]

Kavanaugh’s Yearbook Page Is ‘Horrible, Hurtful’ to a Woman It Named

The word “Renate” appears at least 14 times in Georgetown Preparatory School’s 1983 yearbook, on individuals’ pages and in a group photo of nine football players, including Judge Kavanaugh, who were described as the “Renate Alumni.” It is a reference to Renate Schroeder, then a student at a nearby Catholic girls’ school. Two of Judge Kavanaugh’s classmates say the mentions of Renate were part of the football players’ unsubstantiated boasting about their conquests.

This month, Renate Schroeder Dolphin joined 64 other women who, saying they knew Judge Kavanaugh during their high school years, signed a letter to the leaders of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which is weighing Judge Kavanaugh’s nomination. The letter stated that “he has behaved honorably and treated women with respect.” When Ms. Dolphin signed the Sept. 14 letter, she wasn’t aware of the “Renate” yearbook references on the pages of Judge Kavanaugh and his football teammates.

“I learned about these yearbook pages only a few days ago,” Ms. Dolphin said in a statement to The New York Times. “I don’t know what ‘Renate Alumnus’ actually means. I can’t begin to comprehend what goes through the minds of 17-year-old boys who write such things, but the insinuation is horrible, hurtful and simply untrue. I pray their daughters are never treated this way. I will have no further comment.”

Alexandra Walsh, a lawyer for Judge Kavanaugh, said in a statement: “Judge Kavanaugh was friends with Renate Dolphin in high school. He admired her very much then, and he admires her to this day.“J udge Kavanaugh and Ms. Dolphin attended one high school event together and shared a brief kiss good night following that event,” the statement continued. “They had no other such encounter. The language from Judge Kavanaugh’s high school yearbook refers to the fact that he and Ms. Dolphin attended that one high school event together and nothing else.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/24/business/brett-kavanaugh-yearbook-renate.html

What a scumbag rapist Kavanaugh was !

*sighs* clearly you've never spent much time around HS varsity football players, least of all ones who attended elite prep schools.

[Thank you for being a friend...]

What kind of school was this exactly?  A school for male sluts and sociopaths?  Sounds like something from the pit of hell.  Family values and Christian morals were thrown out the window. 

The man's a pig.  Dump him and let's move on.

[elcorazon]

Kavanaugh’s Yearbook Page Is ‘Horrible, Hurtful’ to a Woman It Named

The word “Renate” appears at least 14 times in Georgetown Preparatory School’s 1983 yearbook, on individuals’ pages and in a group photo of nine football players, including Judge Kavanaugh, who were described as the “Renate Alumni.” It is a reference to Renate Schroeder, then a student at a nearby Catholic girls’ school. Two of Judge Kavanaugh’s classmates say the mentions of Renate were part of the football players’ unsubstantiated boasting about their conquests.

This month, Renate Schroeder Dolphin joined 64 other women who, saying they knew Judge Kavanaugh during their high school years, signed a letter to the leaders of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which is weighing Judge Kavanaugh’s nomination. The letter stated that “he has behaved honorably and treated women with respect.” When Ms. Dolphin signed the Sept. 14 letter, she wasn’t aware of the “Renate” yearbook references on the pages of Judge Kavanaugh and his football teammates.

“I learned about these yearbook pages only a few days ago,” Ms. Dolphin said in a statement to The New York Times. “I don’t know what ‘Renate Alumnus’ actually means. I can’t begin to comprehend what goes through the minds of 17-year-old boys who write such things, but the insinuation is horrible, hurtful and simply untrue. I pray their daughters are never treated this way. I will have no further comment.”

Alexandra Walsh, a lawyer for Judge Kavanaugh, said in a statement: “Judge Kavanaugh was friends with Renate Dolphin in high school. He admired her very much then, and he admires her to this day.“J udge Kavanaugh and Ms. Dolphin attended one high school event together and shared a brief kiss good night following that event,” the statement continued. “They had no other such encounter. The language from Judge Kavanaugh’s high school yearbook refers to the fact that he and Ms. Dolphin attended that one high school event together and nothing else.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/24/business/brett-kavanaugh-yearbook-renate.html

What a scumbag rapist Kavanaugh was !

*sighs* clearly you've never spent much time around HS varsity football players, least of all ones who attended elite prep schools.

this is exactly why the 2 sides on this disagree. One side sees this as pure boys being boys, the other sees it as exploitation of women. It seems to me that the culture of the football team IS the problem, it is not evidence of it NOT being a problem. Having said all that, Kavanaugh's pure denials of everything add to his apparent disregard for truth throughout this process, even more clearly showing his lack of fitness for the position.

[brucejoel99]

Murkowski backs FBI probe of Kavanaugh claims

[7,052,770]

Since we are also including actions someone supposedly did as a teenager, we also have Cory Booker, who has admitted to groping a woman when he was 15, even after he admits she rejected his advances on his first attempt, and she came to him after admitting she was drunk and didn't know what she was doing. But people think he'd make a fine choice for President one day.

I've literally never heard that story, and I doubt many others have either. It's not on his Wikipedia page, for example.

But assuming it's true, it does make him less appealing as a presidential candidate. There are a few key differences though that you're willfully ignoring though:

1. A single grope is not as bad as what Kavanaugh has been accused of. Still inappropriate and wrong, but not close to the same level.

2. According to your story, Booker has admitted his wrongdoing and is remorseful. If Kavanaugh had said from the beginning something like, "yeah I partied hard when I was young and crossed the line a few times, but I'm ashamed and remorseful and I've legitimately changed since then, and I dont remember the incident with Ford happening as she describes it," he'd probably be on his way to confirmation. Instead his "I was an innocent flower," schtick is casting uncertainty onto everything he's said.

3. Booker's constituents get the chance every 6 years to vote him out (and could recall him right now if they want). Voters get no say on whether Kavanaugh gets a lifetime appointment and never have the chance to remove him. Voters are free to decide whether Booker can stay a senator or not and/or rise to the presidency.

Finally, you yet again hackishly and needlessly aggressively insinuate that liberals think its OK when Democrats assault women when that's clearly false. See Al Franken and John Conyers, neither of whom were accused of anything near as bad as Kavanaugh or Trump but were quickly jettisoned anyway. I think even you know that had they been Republicans, they would still be in Congress.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

McConnell's floor remarks today:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Frodo]

McConnell's floor remarks today:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

So then why won't he push to have the FBI investigate these allegations (as these accusers are demanding) so we all can know what is fact, and what are uncorroborated smears?  Any why are we just getting testimony from these two?  What about the witnesses -shouldn't they also be made to testify?   

[Blair]

Since we are also including actions someone supposedly did as a teenager, we also have Cory Booker, who has admitted to groping a woman when he was 15, even after he admits she rejected his advances on his first attempt, and she came to him after admitting she was drunk and didn't know what she was doing. But people think he'd make a fine choice for President one day.

I've literally never heard that story, and I doubt many others have either. It's not on his Wikipedia page, for example.

But assuming it's true, it does make him less appealing as a presidential candidate. There are a few key differences though that you're willfully ignoring though:

1. A single grope is not as bad as what Kavanaugh has been accused of. Still inappropriate and wrong, but not close to the same level.

2. According to your story, Booker has admitted his wrongdoing and is remorseful. If Kavanaugh had said from the beginning something like, "yeah I partied hard when I was young and crossed the line a few times, but I'm ashamed and remorseful and I've legitimately changed since then, and I dont remember the incident with Ford happening as she describes it," he'd probably be on his way to confirmation. Instead his "I was an innocent flower," schtick is casting uncertainty onto everything he's said.

3. Booker's constituents get the chance every 6 years to vote him out (and could recall him right now if they want). Voters get no say on whether Kavanaugh gets a lifetime appointment and never have the chance to remove him. Voters are free to decide whether Booker can stay a senator or not and/or rise to the presidency.

Finally, you yet again hackishly and needlessly aggressively insinuate that liberals think its OK when Democrats assault women when that's clearly false. See Al Franken and John Conyers, neither of whom were accused of anything near as bad as Kavanaugh or Trump but were quickly jettisoned anyway. I think even you know that had they been Republicans, they would still be in Congress.

Yeah, Booker's entire column was how an inappropriate action as a 15 year old led him to realize, and understand about consent.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[7,052,770]

McConnell's floor remarks today:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It's fairly obvious that McConnell is grandstanding here. If they had no idea about the allegations, how were they able to immediately produce a denial letter signed by 65 classmates (ironically including Renate and the man they tried to pin the assault on)?

Maybe they didn't know Ford's name, but they undoubtedly knew how Kavanaugh acted in high school and that allegations were potentially likely to come up. Why else would they have premade such a strong denial?

[7,052,770]

Finally, you yet again hackishly and needlessly aggressively insinuate that liberals think its OK when Democrats assault women when that's clearly false. See Al Franken and John Conyers, neither of whom were accused of anything near as bad as Kavanaugh or Trump but were quickly jettisoned anyway. I think even you know that had they been Republicans, they would still be in Congress.

As a corollary:

Imagine that Kavanaugh had decided during his 20s that he's actually a liberal Democrat. He has a similar career path, and in 2018 President Hillary Clinton nominates him to the Supreme Court.

Then all these allegations come out. I think we can all agree that the nomination would be pulled, and that no Democratic senators would support him after this. Similarly, all Republicans would believe the accusers and Fox News would talk nonstop about how awful Hillary is for putting him up. He would get 0 votes in Committee if it somehow still came up for a vote.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Kavanaugh’s Yearbook Page Is ‘Horrible, Hurtful’ to a Woman It Named

The word “Renate” appears at least 14 times in Georgetown Preparatory School’s 1983 yearbook, on individuals’ pages and in a group photo of nine football players, including Judge Kavanaugh, who were described as the “Renate Alumni.” It is a reference to Renate Schroeder, then a student at a nearby Catholic girls’ school. Two of Judge Kavanaugh’s classmates say the mentions of Renate were part of the football players’ unsubstantiated boasting about their conquests.

This month, Renate Schroeder Dolphin joined 64 other women who, saying they knew Judge Kavanaugh during their high school years, signed a letter to the leaders of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which is weighing Judge Kavanaugh’s nomination. The letter stated that “he has behaved honorably and treated women with respect.” When Ms. Dolphin signed the Sept. 14 letter, she wasn’t aware of the “Renate” yearbook references on the pages of Judge Kavanaugh and his football teammates.

“I learned about these yearbook pages only a few days ago,” Ms. Dolphin said in a statement to The New York Times. “I don’t know what ‘Renate Alumnus’ actually means. I can’t begin to comprehend what goes through the minds of 17-year-old boys who write such things, but the insinuation is horrible, hurtful and simply untrue. I pray their daughters are never treated this way. I will have no further comment.”

Alexandra Walsh, a lawyer for Judge Kavanaugh, said in a statement: “Judge Kavanaugh was friends with Renate Dolphin in high school. He admired her very much then, and he admires her to this day.“J udge Kavanaugh and Ms. Dolphin attended one high school event together and shared a brief kiss good night following that event,” the statement continued. “They had no other such encounter. The language from Judge Kavanaugh’s high school yearbook refers to the fact that he and Ms. Dolphin attended that one high school event together and nothing else.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/24/business/brett-kavanaugh-yearbook-renate.html

What a scumbag rapist Kavanaugh was !

*sighs* clearly you've never spent much time around HS varsity football players, least of all ones who attended elite prep schools.

I’d actually be sympathetic to this view if Kavanagh’s defense on Fox wasn’t “I couldn’t of done this because I’m a holier then thou choir boy”

[The Dowager Mod]

https://twitter.com/skantrow/status/1044596637950251008