MA: Repeal of the Mideast Abortion Statue II (Vetoed)

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Can we get a final vote on it so that we can send it to the Governor's desk (if that's necessary)

I have proposed an amendment that still needs discussed and voted on.

In that case, can we please get a vote on Governor Tmthforu94's amendment?  I don't think there's been discussion for over 48 hours.  

Okay, I'll generate discussion:

I'm interested in hearing arguments on why allowing abortion in the second semester is necessary. I tried doing some research on when most women find out that they're pregnant - some find out as early as four weeks, while the average seems to be around eight weeks. Should a woman decide to have an abortion, this would give women several weeks to still decide if she wants to have the abortion.

It takes a while for a the person to be able to truly investigate alternatives and be able to make an informed decision that they will be able to live with.  Also, I'd argue that my amendment was a fair compromise between repealing the Mideast Abortion Statute II and existing regional law.  Also, let's not forget that my amendment already passed.  

Based on the average, a woman would have four weeks to investigate alternatives under my amendment. How long do they need?

At least until the end of the second trimester.  Also, you referred to it as the second semester

Why do you think they need that long, though?

I'm in college - it's the end of the semester, so it's been in my mind a lot.

Same here, finals next week

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

AYE

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Voting is now closed.  The AYEs are 1, and the NAYs are 3, with 1 not voting.  The NAYs have it, and the amendment is not adopted.

[Gass3268]

i just want to make it known that I support Mr. X's compromise version and I withdraw my original bill of total repeal. 

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Would anybody be willing to go along with changing it to after week 20 of pregnancy, the half-way point?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Would anybody be willing to go along with changing it to after week 20 of pregnancy, the half-way point?

I think the amendment is fine in its present form and honestly, I'd prefer a final vote on my amendment sooner rather than later if possible (especially given that it received unanimous support during the first vote).

[tmthforu94]

Would anybody be willing to go along with changing it to after week 20 of pregnancy, the half-way point?

I think the amendment is fine in its present form and honestly, I'd prefer a final vote on my amendment sooner rather than later if possible (especially given that it received unanimous support during the first vote).

It received unanimous support because most who are even pro-choice believe it is absolutely wrong to kill a fetus at full-term - I can't believe we even had to discuss whether or not to have it.

[Gass3268]

I agree with Mr. X that we should move forward with a final vote.

[tmthforu94]

I ask that the following amendment be considered:

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[Kitteh]

With all due respect to the governor, I cannot help but wonder if his amendments are an attempt to stall the final vote on this bill until after the at-large senate election, when Mr. X may leave the assembly and be replaced with someone with differing views on this issue.

[tmthforu94]

With all due respect to the governor, I cannot help but wonder if his amendments are an attempt to stall the final vote on this bill until after the at-large senate election, when Mr. X may leave the assembly and be replaced with someone with differing views on this issue.

These amendments are nothing more than attempt to find common ground before a final vote is called, something that has not been reached yet. I am looking for answers, yet am not really getting any responses from members of the Assembly, other than complaints about bringing this to a final vote.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

With all due respect, I would urge the Governor to withdraw the amendment and allow a final vote on my amendment.  While Governor Tmthforu94 obviously has the right to have his amendment voted on, I think the Assembly's position on this issue is pretty clear and The People would be best served by a speedy final vote on my amendment.  It got unanimous support in the Assembly and I'm pretty sure it has veto-proof support.  I honestly feel like my amendment gives up as much ground as I am willing to give up at this point.  I think it is a perfectly fair compromise and it seems like a majority of my fellow Assemblymen agree.  So I ask you, Governor, let us have our vote.  If my amendment fails then you can pass your compromise or you can come back to it later.  But please let us have our vote and in a timely fashion, that's not an unreasonable request.  You can veto my amendment and put forward your amendment as your suggested version, but please let us have our vote.

[Talleyrand]

The Governor does have a right to bring up a proposed amendment, but there is no need for further debate on this issue- minds will not be changed and it shall simply be repeated talking points over an issue that all Mideasterners are firm in their beliefs on. I support his amendment personally, and will vote for it, but I believe that the one Mr. X proposed and was passed immediately adequately represents the view of Mideast citizens as well.

Therefore, I would like the following to happen. The Speaker should hold an up-down vote on the Governor's amendment, followed immediately by a final vote on whatever the final version of the bill is. I am disappointed at how long it is taking to have votes on bills, including the Bag Tax, Gubernatorial Vacancy Amendment, and PR-STV Act, even though debate has long expired and clear consensus exists among a majority of Assemblymen in all these cases. I urge my fellow Assemblymen to call for final votes on pieces of legislation as well. We are doing no service to anyone by postponing them.

If this is not done in an appropriate manner (the one I've detailed above), I will motion for a final vote on this bill, as well as the others.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

The Governor does have a right to bring up a proposed amendment, but there is no need for further debate on this issue- minds will not be changed and it shall simply be repeated talking points over an issue that all Mideasterners are firm in their beliefs on. I support his amendment personally, and will vote for it, but I believe that the one Mr. X proposed and was passed immediately adequately represents the view of Mideast citizens as well.

Therefore, I would like the following to happen. The Speaker should hold an up-down vote on the Governor's amendment, followed immediately by a final vote on whatever the final version of the bill is. I am disappointed at how long it is taking to have votes on bills, including the Bag Tax, Gubernatorial Vacancy Amendment, and PR-STV Act, even though debate has long expired and clear consensus exists among a majority of Assemblymen in all these cases. I urge my fellow Assemblymen to call for final votes on pieces of legislation as well. We are doing no service to anyone by postponing them.

If this is not done in an appropriate manner (the one I've detailed above), I will motion for a final vote on this bill, as well as the others.

I share these sentiments wholeheartedly

[tmthforu94]

If you guys would actually provide meaningful debate instead of continuously complaining about things being brought to a vote, this process would be much quicker and we probably would have a version acceptable to everyone by now. Go back and look through this thread and all you'll find from the left on here is complaint after complaint while Inks and I have actually make a legitimate attempt to discuss the issue at hand. There has been almost no real debate on this issue despite it being several pages deep. And good Lord, if you're worried about us trying to stall this until Mr. X becomes Senator, that's pretty ridiculous, as that's three weeks away. There isn't a rush to get this passed.

I have another amendment I plan on introducing separately after this one hopefully passes.

[tmthforu94]

Also, while I don't know about some of you, please keep in mind that Inks and I have both been swamped with finals over the past two weeks. I was expecting some of you to be a little more understanding of that, but apparently not.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Also, while I don't know about some of you, please keep in mind that Inks and I have both been swamped with finals over the past two weeks. I was expecting some of you to be a little more understanding of that, but apparently not.

I thought that you had finished finals, but I apologize if was mistaken.  I have no complaints with Speaker Inks on this, law school is hard stuff!

[tmthforu94]

Also, while I don't know about some of you, please keep in mind that Inks and I have both been swamped with finals over the past two weeks. I was expecting some of you to be a little more understanding of that, but apparently not.

I thought that you had finished finals, but I apologize if was mistaken.  I have no complaints with Speaker Inks on this, law school is hard stuff!

I just wrapped them up on Friday, as did Inks, I believe.

[Talleyrand]

I am not concerned about the possibility of Mr. X being elected to the Senate affecting this debate. As you pointed out, the inauguration is three weeks away, and I'm fine without having a super majority. The Assembly has shown itself capable of passing good legislation and I still sincerely believe we have a strong working relationship with the Governor.

Even if you are going to propose another amendment, all we are asking for is a timely vote. Twenty-four hours should be enough time to debate and vote on an amendment, not a week. I believe that there has been substantive debate on this from both sides (if not in public, definitely in private). And as I've said, I actually support your amendment- I just don't want us to drag along for another month debating this and never holding a final vote.

And I understand both you and Inks have busy with finals, so I apologize if I'd appeared rude or insensitive. But now that they are over, holding a vote on something on which there is consensus and then certifying the results should not be an issue, especially when you still have some time to come on the forum, and I encourage the Speaker to hold votes on the aforementioned three bills quickly.

(And I hope you guys were rewarded with nice results )

[Kitteh]

I completely understand being swamped by finals. I appreciate the governor seeking a compromise on this issue, but when it's clear that not only a majority but a supermajority of the assembly, elected democratically by The People, supports Mr. X's amendment which is already a compromise I don't see any need to continue to try to reach a further compromise.

If the Governor would like a debate on his amendment, here is my position: I believe that it contains too much of a restriction on a woman's right to reproductive choice. Banning abortions after the second trimester is enough restriction for me, and I am not willing to support anything further when the bill as it stands with Mr. X's amendment will get the support of a veto-proof supermajority in the assembly. This is a deeply personal and moral view for me, just as it is for many who are anti-abortion, which I respect. I will not ask those who view abortion as morally wrong to change their views, but in return I would ask that they understand that I am not willing to give up on my beliefs here when such is not necessary to ensure passage of this bill.  

I would like to second TexasDem's call for an immediate, up-or-down vote on the Governor's amendment, followed by a final vote on this bill. A majority of the assembly has reached consensus on this issue and that is a good enough reason to end debate.

[tmthforu94]

In order to speed up the process, I withdraw my previous proposal and ask that this be considered:

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[Talleyrand]

I'll support this amendment.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I've held off on making votes because you guys complained I moved too fast when I held a vote after 24 hours of no debate.  Come on... If I'm going to get attacked for stalling, I'm just going to move stuff back to 24 hours.  I did this as a courtesy to you, TexasDem... your Gubernatorial Vacancy Amendment would've failed if I hadn't stopped the vote to let debate continue.  So assume some good faith... or we'll go back to the old rule, and votes will be held after 24-hours of no debate, and I won't stop a vote to let debate resume.  You guys can't have it both ways.  One week I'm being criticized for acting too hastily, and now I'm being criticized for acting too slow.

[Talleyrand]

I've held off on making votes because you guys complained I moved too fast when I held a vote after 24 hours of no debate.  Come on... If I'm going to get attacked for stalling, I'm just going to move stuff back to 24 hours.  I did this as a courtesy to you, TexasDem... your Gubernatorial Vacancy Amendment would've failed if I hadn't stopped the vote to let debate continue.  So assume some good faith... or we'll go back to the old rule, and votes will be held after 24-hours of no debate, and I won't stop a vote to let debate resume.  You guys can't have it both ways.  One week I'm being criticized for acting too hastily, and now I'm being criticized for acting too slow.

Okay, fair points there, and I guess that applies to this amendment well, but for the other three pieces of legislation, I think adequate time has been spent on them (unless you have objections?) and there seems to be a consensus based around them, so I'd prefer if we could get to a votes soon.

I'm not trying to turn this into an attack on you, by the way. I know that you've acted in good faith, and no one else has the long and illustrious record of service to the Mideast that you've accumulated in the Assembly. I'd just like to have final votes on those.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I'll support this amendment.

As do I, I withdraw my amendment.