MA: Repeal of the Mideast Abortion Statue II (Vetoed)

[Kitteh]

Sure. In order to attain my signature, it would have to at least be the start of the second trimester, and I'd also like increased fines.

I can't do that. We gave up too much already on this bill only to have it vetoed. Very frustrating.

I completely agree. We have compromised multiple times on this bill in an attempt to win support from the other side of the aisle, yet all that's left us is a watered-down bill that still is opposed by the Right. I support overriding this veto.

I was unaware that if a bill is vetoed it cannot be amended. Since that is the case, I will vote to override the Governor's veto and then as soon as it has passed I will introduce a separate bill changing it to parental notification, rather than consent, as I had requested.

[Gass3268]

Sure. In order to attain my signature, it would have to at least be the start of the second trimester, and I'd also like increased fines.

I can't do that. We gave up too much already on this bill only to have it vetoed. Very frustrating.

I completely agree. We have compromised multiple times on this bill in an attempt to win support from the other side of the aisle, yet all that's left us is a watered-down bill that still is opposed by the Right. I support overriding this veto.

I was unaware that if a bill is vetoed it cannot be amended. Since that is the case, I will vote to override the Governor's veto and then as soon as it has passed I will introduce a separate bill changing it to parental notification, rather than consent, as I had requested.

I would support your updated version.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I would like an immediate override vote, we gave up a lot on this bill and I cannot support any bill that would require us to give up even more ground.

[Talleyrand]

After a good bit of thought and personal introspection, I have come to the conclusion that I cannot vote for an override of the Governor's veto with this bill's current text.

I've always been, in my personal views, more or less pro-life, but not willing to impose my moral beliefs on others, and that's why I initially supported this legislation- for I believed it would create a law that would be acceptable to all sides; simultaneously protecting many unborn lives while allowing sufficient control to women over their bodily decisions. I voted for this bill because I thought it more adequately represented the ideals of this region than our previous regional laws, but seeing how acrimonious this debate has been and learning some things about my own friends, it's clear to me that this bill would not be the correct choice for the Mideast. And I personally have a number of qualms with it, which I will address below (I regret not speaking out on this earlier, and I sincerely apologize if my change-of-heart has upset anyway. Full responsibility lies with me for not making my position on this clearer).

I've stated numerous times that this is a unique issue and easily the one I feel least comfortable legislating on, but the following things are very important to me.

1. I am very indisposed to the idea of 2nd trimester abortions. While it is true that many minorities and teenagers choose to receive this procedure, it remains unclear to me why it is necessary for them to wait (thereby creating a more developed, baby-like fetus) when they can undergo a less dangerous and less cruel abortion earlier, removing a less-developed fetus. The dilation and evacuation method used during this period is quite frankly something that appears rather barbaric to me. The insertion of a cannula combined with a pump to remove the tissue from the predeceased baby (killed by a form of lethal injection) and subsequent use of forceps to "clean up" the uterus strikes me as a practice that would certainly be seen as disgusting in the 3rd trimester or for a stillbirth. This also occurs around the period where it is believed that a fetus may began to develop the necessary perceptual systems to feel pain. It is unclear to me why a person, with the obvious exception of threat to their own life, would choose to have a D&E when they had a clear option to have a less invasive or even nonsurgical abortion earlier in the pregnancy, with a less formed fetus. Banning 2nd trimester abortions will influence women to decide the fate of their pregnancies earlier and reduce the occurence of this procedure.

2. Parental consent is also a stretch. Mothers, no matter how old, should be the primary decision-makers on their own pregnancies and it is highly unfair to allow parents to choose for their children. However, parental notification is a must and will have to be inserted into this bill.

3. I do prefer the penalties in this bill to that of the other bill, but I won't vote for this bill unless the two changes I've suggested above are added.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Voting is now open to override the veto.  Members will vote AYE, NAY, or ABSTAIN.  This will be a 48-hour vote.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

NAY

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Aye

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

After a good bit of thought and personal introspection, I have come to the conclusion that I cannot vote for an override of the Governor's veto with this bill's current text.

I've always been, in my personal views, more or less pro-life, but not willing to impose my moral beliefs on others, and that's why I initially supported this legislation- for I believed it would create a law that would be acceptable to all sides; simultaneously protecting many unborn lives while allowing sufficient control to women over their bodily decisions. I voted for this bill because I thought it more adequately represented the ideals of this region than our previous regional laws, but seeing how acrimonious this debate has been and learning some things about my own friends, it's clear to me that this bill would not be the correct choice for the Mideast. And I personally have a number of qualms with it, which I will address below (I regret not speaking out on this earlier, and I sincerely apologize if my change-of-heart has upset anyway. Full responsibility lies with me for not making my position on this clearer).

I've stated numerous times that this is a unique issue and easily the one I feel least comfortable legislating on, but the following things are very important to me.

1. I am very indisposed to the idea of 2nd trimester abortions. While it is true that many minorities and teenagers choose to receive this procedure, it remains unclear to me why it is necessary for them to wait (thereby creating a more developed, baby-like fetus) when they can undergo a less dangerous and less cruel abortion earlier, removing a less-developed fetus. The dilation and evacuation method used during this period is quite frankly something that appears rather barbaric to me. The insertion of a cannula combined with a pump to remove the tissue from the predeceased baby (killed by a form of lethal injection) and subsequent use of forceps to "clean up" the uterus strikes me as a practice that would certainly be seen as disgusting in the 3rd trimester or for a stillbirth. This also occurs around the period where it is believed that a fetus may began to develop the necessary perceptual systems to feel pain. It is unclear to me why a person, with the obvious exception of threat to their own life, would choose to have a D&E when they had a clear option to have a less invasive or even nonsurgical abortion earlier in the pregnancy, with a less formed fetus. Banning 2nd trimester abortions will influence women to decide the fate of their pregnancies earlier and reduce the occurence of this procedure.

2. Parental consent is also a stretch. Mothers, no matter how old, should be the primary decision-makers on their own pregnancies and it is highly unfair to allow parents to choose for their children. However, parental notification is a must and will have to be inserted into this bill.

3. I do prefer the penalties in this bill to that of the other bill, but I won't vote for this bill unless the two changes I've suggested above are added.

The first change is unacceptable, we've given up an enormous amount of ground and I will lobby against any effort to ban second trimester abortions even after I leave the Assembly.  However, I am fine with scraping the parental consent piece.  However, why not pass this bill and then go back and fix it?  If there is no override, the process starts all over.  We can't amend the bill right now.

[Gass3268]

Aye

[Talleyrand]

Nay.

I initially planned to abstain due to my support for the punishment changes, but our constitution does not define whether an abstention would in effect count as a "Nay" vote or rather not really count at all, allowing the override to pass 3-1. That would open up too much ambiguity- possibly even a court case.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Off to the ballot box we go (I will be pushing for my original proposal not this compromise).

[tmthforu94]

Much thanks to Assemblymen Inks and TexasDem for voting against the override!

[Gass3268]

This is extremely frustrating and disappointing.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

This is extremely frustrating and disappointing.

[Kitteh]

AYE, for the record, even if it doesn't matter

This is extremely frustrating and disappointing.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

AYE, for the record, even if it doesn't matter

This is extremely frustrating and disappointing.

Disappointing and frustrating?  You voted against the bill....

[Kitteh]

AYE, for the record, even if it doesn't matter

This is extremely frustrating and disappointing.

Disappointing and frustrating?  You voted against the bill....

I voted against the bill because I was not aware that if the governor vetoed it it had to be voted on as is, with no amendments. As I said, I would be willing to support it if parental consent was changed to parental notification, so my intent was to vote it down, then offer an amendment changing that, then approve it. When you informed me that I couldn't do that, then I decided to achieve the same thing by approving the bill and then offering another bill changing the parental consent part. But then TexasDem torpedoed it.

I'm extremely disappointed and frustrated that this bill failed even after we compromised again and again, watering the bill down greatly from its original form. This was a major piece on the agenda of many of us in the Mideastern left, and I thought with a center-left supermajority it would finally be possible. So it's sad to see it fail unexpectedly at the last minute after having put a lot into passing it.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I'm not quite sure if I'm supposed to vote in this or not, given that my predecessor in this seat, the acclaimed Mr. X, has already voted. In any case, I am against overriding the veto.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I'm not quite sure if I'm supposed to vote in this or not, given that my predecessor in this seat, the acclaimed Mr. X, has already voted. In any case, I am against overriding the veto.

No, you cannot vote here.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I'm not quite sure if I'm supposed to vote in this or not, given that my predecessor in this seat, the acclaimed Mr. X, has already voted. In any case, I am against overriding the veto.

No, you cannot vote here.

A pity, I think we can all agree.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I'm not quite sure if I'm supposed to vote in this or not, given that my predecessor in this seat, the acclaimed Mr. X, has already voted. In any case, I am against overriding the veto.

No, you cannot vote here.

A pity, I think we can all agree.

Well, it's irrelevant, and Mr. X had the right to vote, as he was the Assemblyman elected to serve the people.

[Kitteh]

It doesn't really matter, regardless of how you and Mr. X vote the veto override failed.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

It doesn't really matter, regardless of how you and Mr. X vote the veto override failed.

Ah good, nevermind then. Let us proceed!

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Voting is now closed.  The AYEs are 3, and the NAYs are 2.  Not having reached a 2/3 majority, the veto is not overridden.