Italy 2013: The official thread

[Keystone Phil]

No term limits for a president, just never been done before. They floated a second term for Ciampi ("Ciampi-bis") in '06 but he rejected the idea.

Beat me by under a minute.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I don't give a damn, this party is rotten at its core and contaminated by pure evil. Until something else replaces it, nothing good will ever come to Italy.

?!

You disagree?

No, Yes, Eh... Italy's problems run rather deeper.

Necessary condition =/= sufficient condition.

Also, I didn't mean to say all PD politicians are evil. But there are irredeemably evil people in the party, and they have been getting their way so far.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Would Bersani be an example of one of the irredeemably evil people, in your opinion, or do you think he's merely selfish and stupid?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Would Bersani be an example of one of the irredeemably evil people, in your opinion, or do you think he's merely selfish and stupid?

Nah, Bersani is mostly a tool who never really had a chance to take an initiative of its own. He probably tried to do what he though was best for his party and his country, but has always been entangled into alliances and compromises with the truly evil people. Most PD members are like Bersani, actually. It's just that other people pulling the strings behind the scenes.

[Andrea]

Enrico Letta is tempory in charge of what is left of PD

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Mightn't it just as well split into its constituent parts now? As a project it was always fundamentally flawed...

[Keystone Phil]

Remember a few years back when everyone was talking about how great it would be when Bersani takes over PD because he was the "most electable" leader and Silvio would be terrified of him? What the hell happened?

[palandio]

Tomorrow (and on Monday) there will be hold regional elections in Friuli-Venezia Giulia.

Traditionally tending slightly to the right, at the general elections center-left and center-right got almost exactly the same number of votes.

The center-left candidate is Debora Serracchiani, a Renziana.
The center-right candidate is Renzo Tondo.
The M5S candidate is Saverio Galluccio.

After what happened in the last days and today I expect a real bloodbath for the center-left. Poor Serracchiani, it's not really her fault.

[RogueBeaver]

The PD won't hold a primary till September earliest, if they survive that long.

http://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2013/04/20/pd-verso-congresso-rischio-scissione-giasfida-renzi-barca/570398/

Phil: Eurocrisis happened, something which the Italian political system wasn't designed for and pushed it well beyond its limits. Thus the rapid deterioration, if not quite implosion. Desperately need a new electoral law, though some are speculating about a constitutional convention which would switch to either a French or pure presidential system.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Mightn't it just as well split into its constituent parts now? As a project it was always fundamentally flawed...

Definitely.

[RogueBeaver]

If not at least loosely allied they won't win an election under this system. Or to put it another way, Grillo would've had a temporary Camera majority.

[Antonio the Sixth]

If not at least loosely allied they won't win an election under this system. Or to put it another way, Grillo would've had a temporary Camera majority.

What needs to happen is that all those who aren't completely damaged goods need to leave the PD and let it collapse. Once the PD is gone, that new thing can replace it as the main center-left party.

[RodPresident]

A late-80s President accepting crossover support for reelection reminds me from a certain European country in 1982. And he getting support from long-time enemies.

[batmacumba]

If not at least loosely allied they won't win an election under this system. Or to put it another way, Grillo would've had a temporary Camera majority.

What needs to happen is that all those who aren't completely damaged goods need to leave the PD and let it collapse. Once the PD is gone, that new thing can replace it as the main center-left party.

Did Ingroia's extreme electoral incompetence make him a bad fit to lead this, or does that Orange thingy of him have any chance of raising from the dead?

[Keystone Phil]

Yeah, I was wondering how Ingroia/de Magistris will fare in light of all of this especially if the center-left goes more "centrist" with Renzi. Along the same lines, has Vendola hinted at another leadership run?

[Keystone Phil]

Tomorrow (and on Monday) there will be hold regional elections in Friuli-Venezia Giulia.

Traditionally tending slightly to the right, at the general elections center-left and center-right got almost exactly the same number of votes.

The center-left candidate is Debora Serracchiani, a Renziana.
The center-right candidate is Renzo Tondo.
The M5S candidate is Saverio Galluccio.

After what happened in the last days and today I expect a real bloodbath for the center-left. Poor Serracchiani, it's not really her fault.

But I guess it's worth noting that Tondo is the incumbent. Unless he was scandal-plagued, a center-right hold can't be that surprising even if the region is evenly divided.

[RodPresident]

Does Grillini candidate stand a chance in FVG?
And Vendola should be repented until now. By accepting an early coalition with PD, he destroyed his national political capital and transfered it to Grillo.

[RogueBeaver]

Renzi is running whenever the primary trigger is pulled.

http://www.gazzettadelsud.it/news/english/43629/Renzi-primed-for-centre-left-leadership-challenge.html

[Andrea]

Friuli has not been a bloodbath for PD....but maybe worse...their candidate is now 2% ahead of PDL but the missing areas to be reported should favour PdL-Lega...so I think she may lose by 1% in the end....lose by such a tiny margin after last week's events

Grillo's candidate is around 20%

[Keystone Phil]

Turnout was "only" 51%. That's down 20% from last time.

From what I read, Serracchiani (PD) is at 39.37% to Tondo's (PdL) 38.81%.

[Keystone Phil]

95% of precincts in.

Serracchian (PD)i - 39.34%
Tondo (PdL) - 38.93%
Galluccio (M5S) - 19.27%

[Keystone Phil]

Almost exactly a two thousand vote difference. There are 56 precincts left. 26 of those are from the Udine comune (which PD is winning by right points). She might just hold on...

[Andrea]

Almost exactly a two thousand vote difference. There are 56 precincts left. 26 of those are from the Udine comune (which PD is winning by right points). She might just hold on...

Yes, she held on. Now just 30 precints left. 20 of them are in Udine town (favouring her) and not the little villages in the province (favouring PdL-Lega).

[Keystone Phil]

What was the deal with Tondo? Was he problematic or is this just such a swing region that it was going to be a squaker either way?

Also, did the 20% decrease in turnout hurt Tondo?

[MaxQue]

What was the deal with Tondo? Was he problematic or is this just such a swing region that it was going to be a squaker either way?

Also, did the 20% decrease in turnout hurt Tondo?

He did also a term between 2001 and 2003. They seem to switch all the time, last time than an incumbent was reelected was in 1988.