Israel-Gaza war

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https://twitter.com/HeTows/status/1724158672710906142

Israel should continue to press for unilateral surrender, wherein Hamas either voluntarily disbands or agrees to become an instrument of Israeli government policy, but it is once again being demonstrated that people in this thread have a poor understanding of cause and effect.

Netanyahu refuses to answer CNN on whether he would take responsibility for October 7 attack

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/12/middleeast/netanyahu-bash-interview-israel-hamas-war-intl/index.html

We all know he doesn't want to.

Odd comment. It's not like anyone wants to take responsibility for their own mistakes, even if that is the right thing to do. People do this even though they don't want to.

It's very odd.  Immediately after the October 7th attack, both left-wing media and Hamas propagandists  tried to pin the attack on Bibi Netanyahu.  The former blaming Bibi for the entire intelligence failure.  The latter positing conspiracies about the Israeli Government letting the attack happen in order to justify an invasion of Gaza.  Similar conspiracies were asserted after Pearl Harbor and 9/11.  These assertions and attacks against Bibi are obviously intended to diminish his credibility and trustworthiness within the General Public.  

I think he's done enough of that on his own.

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https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1724851507768795142?t=Lj1jdb8N2m1QvXXs...

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If the Israelis have that hospital and show any tunnels to the world's press, that would probably be a big blow to what is left of Hamas' reputation.

I think you underestimate the ability of a lot of people to blindly oppose Israel despite all evidence

yeah, as we'll see over the coming days, they wont care.  They will say "it doesn't matter that it was a Hamas headquarters, you can never ever attack a hospital".

"even when there are bullets, missiles and command and control coming out of it?"
"yes"
"you don't see the problem with this?"
"nope!"

It's a good thing they raided the hospital because IDF World Class Intelligence was able to discover a punch clock list naming seven of the deadly terrorist leaders: Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. All surely dead men walking in the face of Israel's legendary capabilities.

https://twitter.com/SaeedDiCaprio/status/1724173144804426061

Today we see the true extent of the Hamas Terror Tunnel Network: 10 rusty AKs, 10 magazines, an airsoft pistol, a half dozen grenades, a laptop and three vests helpfully labeled "FOR USE BY HAMAS TERRORISTS ONLY" all stored right next to an MRI machine. Truly an unprecedented cache and huge triumph for the IDF, while the Hamas Terrorists will be left reeling at the loss of such an essential command center and so many critical supplies. In other news, the people at Al-Shifa no longer have to worry about supply shortages because the IDF brought huge boxes helpfully labelled "MEDICAL SUPPLIES" in English which surely weren't filled with anything besides medical supplies.

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1724859904052109354

Finally, to commemorate their great victory over the sick and wounded the brave heroes raised their flag over the hospital, surely the first of many such triumphs

https://twitter.com/jennineak/status/1724808094834888935

Seriously though, I can see why Israelis fall for this junk because they're in the throes of War Fever but how anyone else falls for such obvious lies is beyond me. If an unnamed country made allegations based solely on an "Osama's Tora Bora Stronghold" style infographic, banned international observers from investigating, cut all communications and then sprinkled some crack "discovered a weapons cache" everyone would instantly recognize what was going on. In some cases the very same people who took pride in seeing through Putin's propaganda have no problem taking everything the IDF says as gospel.

Damn. You just completely wrecked what little was left of their bizarre narrative.

Haven't seen a complete dismantling like this in awhile. Nice.

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Wow. Looks like the US is starting to tire of Israeli games. I haven't seen the US defy Israel at the security council since Obama was a lame duck.

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1724900144808947883?t=7ZxqOT6nBGkPGFhGxX5q...

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https://twitter.com/ParkerMolloy/status/1725532307954561279?t=qrpxP1Z7m_HeOeAdFc...

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There's a difference between knowing where facilities are and where an attack will come from.

True, but it seems like the IDF knows neither. I always knew that like the Mossad the bark of their PR was bigger than their actual skill level, but this is just sad. A complete and total failure at every level of the Israeli government.

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You think the fact that people like Dule or MT Treasurer are even critical of Israel’s conduct would be a hint to people like OSR or Meclazine that Israel is going too far in it’s conduct

Nah Dule and MT Treasurer are openly not fans of neoconservatism at all and I don’t think either are much fans of even the milder form of neoconservatism you saw under Reagan

Anyway I will fully admit it’s far more likely for the average Republican to turn on Israel than me given how social media is like these days.

Ever considered that people are turning on Israel because they've killed over 4,000 children with no sign of stopping?

"It's TikTok"

"It's Gen Z"

"It's twitter"

"It's antisemitism"

Maybe look in the mirror for once?

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https://twitter.com/broseph_stalin/status/1725481914562121794

The BBC is not a credible source on this conflict. They have repeatedly echoed Hamas propaganda uncritically our outright made up fake news ('the IDF is targeting Arab speakers and doctors'.)

"It's the BBC"

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https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf

75% of Palestinians view Hamas in a positive manner and back the 10/7 attacks

75% of Americans saw Bush in a positive manner and backed the Iraq War when it began.

Getting your buildings bombed to the ground and your people brutally murdered radicalizes citizens through nationalism, who would’ve thought! Shocking stuff that Netanyahu plus Israeli far-right feed Hamas and vice-versa!

Lol you are truly unbelievable and all your defenses of radical Islamists are completely lol worthy . The fact is the PLO had genocidal goals for decades and completely sabotaged hopes for peace over and over again so it was the PLO. Now they back a group worse than the PLO because what they want is Israel to no longer exist and that’s always been their belief.

Anyway this poll is probably similar to what the German public thought about the Nazis from 43-45 and yeah Gaza just like Germany needs to be depropagandized

It's always ironic you say this because you would have backed the Iraq war lmao

And this is what makes me respect you.

Regardless of anything else, every other feud we have, i forgive and will let that slip. You're a freedom fighter when it comes to this.

This just proves the horseshoe theory is true when it comes to this issue or foreign policy in general. You tend to side with Posters like Deadprez and Yellowhammer on this issue while I tend to side with S019 and President Johnson more on this issue than those posters .

It's not left vs. right, it's boomers and establishment normies vs. everyone else.

Also S019 is the most authoritarian poster here.

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https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf

75% of Palestinians view Hamas in a positive manner and back the 10/7 attacks

75% of Americans saw Bush in a positive manner and backed the Iraq War when it began.

Getting your buildings bombed to the ground and your people brutally murdered radicalizes citizens through nationalism, who would’ve thought! Shocking stuff that Netanyahu plus Israeli far-right feed Hamas and vice-versa!

Lol you are truly unbelievable and all your defenses of radical Islamists are completely lol worthy . The fact is the PLO had genocidal goals for decades and completely sabotaged hopes for peace over and over again so it was the PLO. Now they back a group worse than the PLO because what they want is Israel to no longer exist and that’s always been their belief.

Anyway this poll is probably similar to what the German public thought about the Nazis from 43-45 and yeah Gaza just like Germany needs to be depropagandized

It's always ironic you say this because you would have backed the Iraq war lmao

And this is what makes me respect you.

Regardless of anything else, every other feud we have, i forgive and will let that slip. You're a freedom fighter when it comes to this.

This just proves the horseshoe theory is true when it comes to this issue or foreign policy in general. You tend to side with Posters like Deadprez and Yellowhammer on this issue while I tend to side with S019 and President Johnson more on this issue than those posters .

It's not left vs. right, it's boomers and establishment normies vs. everyone else.

Also S019 is the most authoritarian poster here.

lol no

lol yes. He's basically Singapore.

No fun, rules for everything, OCD about perceived safety, anti civil liberties and privacy.

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Small but positive step from the Biden administration.

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1725976743234683347?t=XQctaMPpnlwDkwZ8rtVI...

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No deal yet per NSC.

https://twitter.com/NSC_Spox/status/1726064620387897370?t=3ZFWO2HD9eiWwBQ4mkebUA...

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Was going to post this in an Oregon thread but figured there isn't any point in starting any Israel/Gaza convo on that thread, so just throwing this on here. My former Senator, and absolutely one of the best we've got in the Senate these days, is backing a ceasefire.

https://twitter.com/SenJeffMerkley/status/1726704028804153647?s=20

The second senator after Durbin to do so.

Jamie Raskin also called for a ceasefire a few days ago which I was very happy to see. He's one of the best members of Congress.

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Wtf... Did Israel do this in previous wars?

https://twitter.com/Seamus_Malek/status/1726970021744984282?t=t6krVkKbDfGpqKspCZ...

[Horus]

Wtf... Did Israel do this in previous wars?

https://twitter.com/Seamus_Malek/status/1726970021744984282?t=t6krVkKbDfGpqKspCZ...

They never had as many crazy low-level ministers before, that's for sure - but also, the emotions around this war are very different from any other.

Are you really trying to both sides this? Bruh

And several ministers have called for ethnic cleansing, a minister called for a nuke, and now this bizarre mess. It's almost like the current Israeli administration is evil and we shouldn't fund them.

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Wtf... Did Israel do this in previous wars?

https://twitter.com/Seamus_Malek/status/1726970021744984282?t=t6krVkKbDfGpqKspCZ...

They never had as many crazy low-level ministers before, that's for sure - but also, the emotions around this war are very different from any other.

Are you really trying to both sides this? Bruh

And several ministers have called for ethnic cleansing, a minister called for a nuke, and now this bizarre mess. It's almost like the current Israeli administration is evil and we shouldn't fund them.

The "both sides" absurdity is that one side has slaughtered children in the worst antisemitic violence since the Holocaust, and the other side has some ministers who make disgusting statements on Twitter that have no chance of becoming policy.

At this point I think a majority of the Knesset has made a disgusting statement on Twitter.

Pretty clear that Israel is trying to maximize civilian casualties too. The end goal is the expulsion of all Gazans.

Some ministers are already saying other countries should take them in. There was a joint statement by Likud and YA MKs asking for this recently.

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Of course not.

Netanyahu's cabinet is full of crazies. It's what happened after the last election when the only way he could form a stable government was to align with the extreme right. They'll be gone after the next election thankfully.

They should be demanding he leave now. His ineptitude is why this happened. The Brits had no problem throwing Chamberlain out during war time, why won't the Israelis here?

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No, any conclusion in which Hamas does not surrender unconditionally, and agree to implement the directives of the Israeli government, is unacceptable. If Israel is unwilling to bomb Gaza then other countries, or private organizations, should do it, though I think Israel is the country most enthusiastic about this (and also is who the territory belongs to legally), so it makes the most sense.

The role of America and other Western countries should be shutting down aid organizations that are trying to send aid to territories under Hamas's control and criminalizing their activities, instead of cooperating with them. Aid can be sent to territories ruled by Hamas once Hamas either stops ruling them or surrenders unconditionally. The Israeli blockade of Gaza was indeed unjust; it should have always been an Earth blockade. Flotillas of private individuals from around the world should travel to Gaza to destroy the government and ideology there, until Palestinian liberationism is crushed under the weight of eight billion human souls.

Something tells me you aren't going to sign up to go fight for your people's cause. You'll just smarmily cheer for a needlessly gruesome ethnic cleansing in front of a dozen other bozo's on an internet forum.

The unashamedly ethno-narcissist (fine I guess, but it's hypocritical because most Zionists scream bloody murder when language half this potent is coming from white people) crowing of people like yourself doesn't do anything to win Israel any support. It's a large part of why I stopped supporting the Zionist cause.

Is it possible for you to write anything informative about a topic without the venomous hatred and vitriol towards others?

You're passive aggressive with your venomous hatred, YH is a little more upfront. In other words, at least he's not being fake about it.

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Lula remains the best leader of a major country, and it's not particularly close.

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Oh so a far right despot waging a war of aggression that indiscriminately targets civilians is bad now? Good to see you found your moral outrage when it doesn’t involve a country you have ties with Lula 😑

Lula's Ukraine neutrality would be his one blind spot, but domestically he's basically perfect. Exactly what I'd want in a leader.

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Oh so a far right despot waging a war of aggression that indiscriminately targets civilians is bad now? Good to see you found your moral outrage when it doesn’t involve a country you have ties with Lula 😑

Lula's Ukraine neutrality would be his one blind spot, but domestically he's basically perfect. Exactly what I'd want in a leader.

Tbf most would look perfect domestically when compared to the fascist douchebag that came before him

Sure but his sort of compassionate left wing nationalism is pretty much exactly where I am politically. Haddad or the like would be an improvement too of course but not in the same way.

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Israel's support is down to Fuzzy and Vosem types at this point. The consequences of ignoring 20+ years of warnings that they're wolf warrior diplomacy was leading to isolation minus the evangelical death cult/anti-Arabs.
https://twitter.com/ettingermentum/status/1730719161972674717

Israel's free ride is completely over and done with the next Dem president. I'm not sure where they'll turn after that, probably try to suck up to Russia again even though Putin has laughed in their face for years. Oh well.

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https://twitter.com/PaulAustinMurp2/status/1729834160733266143

I don't like simplistic views about foreign policy. It reminds me W Bush and Co.
"You're either with me or against me."

I hate injustice, but beware simplistic views and opinions.

I'm asking how millennials and Gen Z will conduct foreign policy when they'll be in power.

Signs like that are stupid and unhelpful, but here we go with the millennial and Gen z panic yet again. Your average younger person is not on the street protesting right now or even thinking about this conflict 99% of the time.

The answer to your question is mostly the same as before but a bit more non interventionist, a little more neutrality on Israel-Palestine and more willingness to open up relations with far left governments like Venezuela and Cuba. All of which is fine by me.

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Austin not sounding confident in Israel here. He's been a very solid defense secretary, not a warmonger at all and a fairly logical guy.

https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1731405406654918784?t=xx30fr7Z9RHzfkN5DXlI...

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Why should maintaining a Jewish majority even be a factor? Nobody cared about maintaining a white majority in Rhodesia or South Africa. Israel should be held to the exact same standard.

Israel is not a colony. Israel is a nation run by its indigenous people. You will never disperse or overrun them again.

Ashkenazi Jews are so far removed from the Levant (if connected at all), that calling us indigenous is equivalent to saying that modern day Celtic people are entitled to Austria. Sephardic Jews somewhat closer but still pretty tenuous.

Israel is the indigenous home of some Mizrahi Jews and a whole lot of Muslim and Christian Palestinians.