COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[Horus]

The above graphic is promising but I’d also urge caution until a few more weeks have passed so we can see a clear indication of fewer deaths.


Deaths lag.

Deaths lag by about two weeks. It has been four.

Cases are also rapidly declining in South Africa. We would have known if hospitals were overwhelmed and people were dying in the streets like India in April.

It's like people are deliberately avoiding good news.

I'm convinced there is a segment of society (not Trump virus necessarily) who preferred living in COVID mode. They actually enjoyed the isolation and staying at home, they want the "new normal" to continue forever. These are the types of people who are fine with eternal masking but won't get vaccinated or don't think the vaccines are effective. They are incredibly misanthropic, and a bigger threat than the Trumpers who won't vax or mask. At least the latter group is out of COVID mode

Only on this forum could someone make a serious post declarnig that responsible people, who want to keep themselves and people they care about safe from COVID-19, and whose greatest sin is minimizing their time in public, are a "bigger threat" than a bunch of numbskulls who willfully spread a deadly disease around and who stormed the Capitol in an attempt to overthrow the government. What, are you a restaurant owner salty about the people who cancelled their holiday party reservations?

Just go hook yourself up to the metaverse already. Leave the 99% of us who still value sharing pheremones and seeing faces alone.

[Horus]

The death count just isn't keeping up with the case count though.

Well, of course, deaths lag case counts for obvious reasons, but the vax levels for much of the US should keep deaths well below last Dec/Jan but still far too many dead people even if they are mainly rural white people.

SA has still not seen a spike in deaths. It has been 4 weeks, usually deaths begin to climb after 2.

[Horus]

With all these holiday cancellations maybe the Dems will finally get Jehovah's Witnesses to vote.

[Horus]

1 case reported in Perth, Western Australia bringing total cases in community to 7.

Hence lockdown extended by 1 week to January 4 2022. No indoor gatherings without masks. No concerts, no night clubs.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-27/wa-extends-covid-restrictions-one-new-case-in-hotel-quarantine/100726876

Two people arrested and jailed for not following isolation protocol.

2 jab vaccination rate at 84%.

You guys are insane. 84% vaccination rate yet you're still locked down and still arresting people? Everyone is going to get COVID either way, you are simply postponing the inevitable.

Do you really think this is normal and okay? Freedom House really needs to downgrade that part of the world. There is no way in hell you guys have more freedoms than we do.

[Horus]

Can we just acknowledge this new guidance was made to keep things running and not because it will keep us just as “safe” from Covid? I am for the changes because of the nature of omicron, but as Compucomp is asking, be honest.

The CDC still isn't admitting that they want permanent mask mandates, why would they acknowledge this?

[Horus]

Zero COVID hasn't been plausible since "two weeks to slow the spread" but there's been plenty of strategic incoherence regarding why we are doing much of what we have been doing since then, so many people still believe that is our collective goal.

Nobody on here is arguing for it, maybe a few in the real world, but that definitely has not been the goal since…probably last summer.

Then what is the goal?

Keep hospitals running and not overwhelmed? Lmao

Omicron is mild and we're doing that.

What's the next goal?

[Horus]

Hospitalizations in NJ are at 3604 today (source) and quickly rising. The peak last winter was 3800. Omicron may be less severe than Delta but now we are seeing that since it is ridiculously contagious, the sheer number of infected people can still cause a large number of hospitalizations. This forum should have treated this possibility more seriously instead of dismissing Omicron as the common cold.

So what, then, should “this forum” do about the unvaccinated people now clogging the hospitals? For most of us, Omicron *is* the common cold, if even that. It’s not reasonable to ask us to grind our lives to a halt at this point if the crisis isn’t going to be managed from the top.

This forum could avoid being rabidly anti-containment, screaming and pushing back harshly against any phantom or ghost that vaguely resembles a COVID restriction. I wouldn't be surprised if some of you even called or wrote your elected officials demanding that no restrictions be enacted come hell or high water. I suspect that this has moved the needle from the perspective of Democratic decision makers; they think that not only have they lost all Republican-leaners, but they are also losing a key constituency of supporters, young politically engaged liberals, over the COVID measures. Now, if hospitals overflow and people die needlessly in the Omicron wave, Democrats and Joe Biden will be blamed for not doing enough, and young liberals like the ones on this forum could very well have been the tipping point that caused them to make the wrong decision.

It's really too bad the opposing force, elderly people who fear for their lives, are busy hiding in their homes and not nearly as likely to yell online, get on CNN, or badger their elected officials.

Also, how many people are being hospitalized for COVID as opposed to going to the hospital for something else and happening to test positive?

I'm using the same data source for both numbers, the official NJ COVID page, so I'm comparing apples to apples.

Omicron cannot be contained. It is by far the most transmissible strain yet.

Can't speak for any other elderly people but both of my parents are over 65, boosted, and living and traveling normally. We can't put society on hold for a bunch of elderly anti vaxxers. If fully vaccinated old people are hiding in their homes, they're being neurotic and not following the facts.

[Horus]

So what, then, should “this forum” do about the unvaccinated people now clogging the hospitals? For most of us, Omicron *is* the common cold, if even that. It’s not reasonable to ask us to grind our lives to a halt at this point if the crisis isn’t going to be managed from the top.

bull sh**t, also the omicron is more lethal of the flu

Not for the vaccinated.

[Horus]

We can’t compare omicron to the flu in a positive or negative way simply because it’s too early for substantial death data. Just keep watching the death rates in South Africa and the UK to start, that will give us a good general idea of how it is relative to other strains.

Death rates in SA are already declining.

[Horus]

Covid is over.

Nope, not even close.

For vaccinated Americans, COVID is over.

[Horus]

Previous rules of virus are 'out the window'

The latest surge, which has sent case numbers exploding across the globe, is fueled by the Omicron variant, the most contagious coronavirus strain yet, health experts say.

The virus is now "extraordinarily contagious" and previous mitigation measures that used to help now may not be as helpful, CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner told CNN on Friday.

"At the beginning of this pandemic... we all were taught, you have a significant exposure if you're within six feet of somebody and you're in contact with them for more than 15 minutes. All these rules are out the window," Reiner said. "This is a hyper-contagious virus."

Now, even a quick, transient encounter can lead to an infection, Reiner added, including if someone's mask is loose, or a person quickly pulls their mask down, or an individual enters an elevator in which someone else has just coughed.

"This is how you can contract this virus," Reiner said.

I'm sure all the anti-restriction people on this forum want this information suppressed, like Trump would. If this were widely known, a substantial portion of the population would lock themselves down, and then large parts of the hospitality industry would likely close due to suddenly being unprofitable, all of this with zero intervention by the government. This would be totally unacceptable to these people who demand their hospitality options open at all times come hell or high water.

I don't understand this post: the kind of people who would 'lock themselves down' are the kind of people who already know everything there is to know about the new variant anyway and would act accordingly.

Omicron Covid is one of the most infectious diseases known to humanity, rendering anything other than the most authoritarian, dystopian NPIs ineffectual. If anything, this means we need fewer restrictions, not more, since they will have nothing but the most vanishingly marginal impact on actual transmissibility and will only make people's lives more miserable with no meaningful change to the trajectory of the pandemic.

Unless you want people to be welded into their homes like in Wuhan there is no plausible level of social/economic restriction that will do anything to prevent everyone contracting Covid now. This is grounds for celebration, because it's extraordinarly mild compared to prior variants.

This will be over soon: the pandemic is transitioning from a medical phenomenon to a social/political one. If original Covid had been as mild as omicron and as transmissible we would never have heard of the phrase 'lockdown' because there would never have been any case for such a measure. The only reason we're even talking about public health restrictions now is because it's been normalised over the last two years.

I think you missed my point. I've long given up on government NPI's in the USA, aside from mask mandates, because they will not be put in place even if Omicron had the lethality of Ebola and corpses were piling up in the streets. I'm speaking of actions by cautious individuals in response to this news. I believe there is a substantial proportion of the population, who thought they were being mostly safe but if they were informed just how contagious Omicron is, would cancel that vacation, stop dining out, cancel that gathering they were going to hold, etc. This could then move the market and make hospitality unprofitable, forcing firms there to shut down, all of this with zero intervention by the government.

One could call this a "grassroots lockdown", and based on the posts on this forum, it would trigger people just as much as a government lockdown, which honestly undermines their "freedom" arguments since it would force hospitality firms to operate for their pleasure despite adverse market conditions.

Time will tell whether we see any effect like this, but I have seen several articles in December saying that restaurants in NYC were experiencing mass cancellations of reservations. My firm asked that we WFH for the first two weeks of January unless necessary and several of our competitors have done the same.

Why? That's just postponing the inevitable by a week or two. Every single person in the world is going to get omicron.

Your triple masking does nothing, omicron will come for you all the same.

[Horus]

Previous rules of virus are 'out the window'

The latest surge, which has sent case numbers exploding across the globe, is fueled by the Omicron variant, the most contagious coronavirus strain yet, health experts say.

The virus is now "extraordinarily contagious" and previous mitigation measures that used to help now may not be as helpful, CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner told CNN on Friday.

"At the beginning of this pandemic... we all were taught, you have a significant exposure if you're within six feet of somebody and you're in contact with them for more than 15 minutes. All these rules are out the window," Reiner said. "This is a hyper-contagious virus."

Now, even a quick, transient encounter can lead to an infection, Reiner added, including if someone's mask is loose, or a person quickly pulls their mask down, or an individual enters an elevator in which someone else has just coughed.

"This is how you can contract this virus," Reiner said.

I'm sure all the anti-restriction people on this forum want this information suppressed, like Trump would. If this were widely known, a substantial portion of the population would lock themselves down, and then large parts of the hospitality industry would likely close due to suddenly being unprofitable, all of this with zero intervention by the government. This would be totally unacceptable to these people who demand their hospitality options open at all times come hell or high water.

I don't understand this post: the kind of people who would 'lock themselves down' are the kind of people who already know everything there is to know about the new variant anyway and would act accordingly.

Omicron Covid is one of the most infectious diseases known to humanity, rendering anything other than the most authoritarian, dystopian NPIs ineffectual. If anything, this means we need fewer restrictions, not more, since they will have nothing but the most vanishingly marginal impact on actual transmissibility and will only make people's lives more miserable with no meaningful change to the trajectory of the pandemic.

Unless you want people to be welded into their homes like in Wuhan there is no plausible level of social/economic restriction that will do anything to prevent everyone contracting Covid now. This is grounds for celebration, because it's extraordinarly mild compared to prior variants.

This will be over soon: the pandemic is transitioning from a medical phenomenon to a social/political one. If original Covid had been as mild as omicron and as transmissible we would never have heard of the phrase 'lockdown' because there would never have been any case for such a measure. The only reason we're even talking about public health restrictions now is because it's been normalised over the last two years.

I think you missed my point. I've long given up on government NPI's in the USA, aside from mask mandates, because they will not be put in place even if Omicron had the lethality of Ebola and corpses were piling up in the streets. I'm speaking of actions by cautious individuals in response to this news. I believe there is a substantial proportion of the population, who thought they were being mostly safe but if they were informed just how contagious Omicron is, would cancel that vacation, stop dining out, cancel that gathering they were going to hold, etc. This could then move the market and make hospitality unprofitable, forcing firms there to shut down, all of this with zero intervention by the government.

One could call this a "grassroots lockdown", and based on the posts on this forum, it would trigger people just as much as a government lockdown, which honestly undermines their "freedom" arguments since it would force hospitality firms to operate for their pleasure despite adverse market conditions.

Time will tell whether we see any effect like this, but I have seen several articles in December saying that restaurants in NYC were experiencing mass cancellations of reservations. My firm asked that we WFH for the first two weeks of January unless necessary and several of our competitors have done the same.

Why? That's just postponing the inevitable by a week or two. Every single person in the world is going to get omicron.

Your triple masking does nothing, omicron will come for you all the same.

You're entitled to your opinion. I believe there are many who believe otherwise, particularly if this doctor is right and his statement becomes widely known, enough to move the market. We'll see who is right.

However, if I'm right and the hospitality industry starts to contract simply due to market conditions, then if you're bashing "lockdowns", like many have already done on this forum, you've totally undermined your "pro-freedom" arguments and have shown that you're authoritarian in the other direction. You're demanding that the hospitality sector stay open for your pleasure, regardless of what Omicron does and what market conditions dictate.

People can believe whatever they'd like about the transmissibility of the omicron variant. The facts are, it will get all of us at some point in at most the next 60 days, probably less, if it hasn't already. Nothing I stated was an opinion.

And I'm not demanding anyone stay open. If a business wants to lose money and shut down, they have that right. Virtually none will.

[Horus]

Previous rules of virus are 'out the window'

The latest surge, which has sent case numbers exploding across the globe, is fueled by the Omicron variant, the most contagious coronavirus strain yet, health experts say.

The virus is now "extraordinarily contagious" and previous mitigation measures that used to help now may not be as helpful, CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner told CNN on Friday.

"At the beginning of this pandemic... we all were taught, you have a significant exposure if you're within six feet of somebody and you're in contact with them for more than 15 minutes. All these rules are out the window," Reiner said. "This is a hyper-contagious virus."

Now, even a quick, transient encounter can lead to an infection, Reiner added, including if someone's mask is loose, or a person quickly pulls their mask down, or an individual enters an elevator in which someone else has just coughed.

"This is how you can contract this virus," Reiner said.

I'm sure all the anti-restriction people on this forum want this information suppressed, like Trump would. If this were widely known, a substantial portion of the population would lock themselves down, and then large parts of the hospitality industry would likely close due to suddenly being unprofitable, all of this with zero intervention by the government. This would be totally unacceptable to these people who demand their hospitality options open at all times come hell or high water.

I don't understand this post: the kind of people who would 'lock themselves down' are the kind of people who already know everything there is to know about the new variant anyway and would act accordingly.

Omicron Covid is one of the most infectious diseases known to humanity, rendering anything other than the most authoritarian, dystopian NPIs ineffectual. If anything, this means we need fewer restrictions, not more, since they will have nothing but the most vanishingly marginal impact on actual transmissibility and will only make people's lives more miserable with no meaningful change to the trajectory of the pandemic.

Unless you want people to be welded into their homes like in Wuhan there is no plausible level of social/economic restriction that will do anything to prevent everyone contracting Covid now. This is grounds for celebration, because it's extraordinarly mild compared to prior variants.

This will be over soon: the pandemic is transitioning from a medical phenomenon to a social/political one. If original Covid had been as mild as omicron and as transmissible we would never have heard of the phrase 'lockdown' because there would never have been any case for such a measure. The only reason we're even talking about public health restrictions now is because it's been normalised over the last two years.

I think you missed my point. I've long given up on government NPI's in the USA, aside from mask mandates, because they will not be put in place even if Omicron had the lethality of Ebola and corpses were piling up in the streets. I'm speaking of actions by cautious individuals in response to this news. I believe there is a substantial proportion of the population, who thought they were being mostly safe but if they were informed just how contagious Omicron is, would cancel that vacation, stop dining out, cancel that gathering they were going to hold, etc. This could then move the market and make hospitality unprofitable, forcing firms there to shut down, all of this with zero intervention by the government.

One could call this a "grassroots lockdown", and based on the posts on this forum, it would trigger people just as much as a government lockdown, which honestly undermines their "freedom" arguments since it would force hospitality firms to operate for their pleasure despite adverse market conditions.

Time will tell whether we see any effect like this, but I have seen several articles in December saying that restaurants in NYC were experiencing mass cancellations of reservations. My firm asked that we WFH for the first two weeks of January unless necessary and several of our competitors have done the same.

Why? That's just postponing the inevitable by a week or two. Every single person in the world is going to get omicron.

Your triple masking does nothing, omicron will come for you all the same.

You're entitled to your opinion. I believe there are many who believe otherwise, particularly if this doctor is right and his statement becomes widely known, enough to move the market. We'll see who is right.

However, if I'm right and the hospitality industry starts to contract simply due to market conditions, then if you're bashing "lockdowns", like many have already done on this forum, you've totally undermined your "pro-freedom" arguments and have shown that you're authoritarian in the other direction. You're demanding that the hospitality sector stay open for your pleasure, regardless of what Omicron does and what market conditions dictate.

People can believe whatever they'd like about the transmissibility of the omicron variant. The facts are, it will get all of us at some point in at most the next 60 days, probably less, if it hasn't already. Nothing I stated was an opinion.

And I'm not demanding anyone stay open. If a business wants to lose money and shut down, they have that right. Virtually none will.

No, it's your opinion. It's still possible to avoid being infected by avoiding all human contact and sanitizing everything. I don't believe Omicron has evolved to be Lysol resistant. Also getting a booster does help a bit to prevent infection. If one can't tolerate avoiding human contact, then one incurs risk of catching it. How much human contact you need and how much risk you want to incur, that's up to personal opinion.

If you're willing to stick to what you said about voluntary business shutdowns, then I will respect your opinion. But there are multiple active threads where people are whining about "lockdowns" which are really voluntary business shutdowns and that really is not a respectable opinion since their "pro-freedom" arguments turn into hypocrisy.

Do you do this?

[Horus]

Covid is over.

Nope, not even close.

For vaccinated Americans, COVID is over.

Also a nope.

It's very much a yes. Let me guess, you're a "long COVID" alarmist? lmao

Or do you just distrust vaccine efficacy like most eternal maskers?

[Horus]

Covid is over.

Nope, not even close.

For vaccinated Americans, COVID is over.

Also a nope.

It's very much a yes. Let me guess, you're a "long COVID" alarmist? lmao

Or do you just distrust vaccine efficacy like most eternal maskers?

It’s very much a no because people are still being infected and there are still too many who are not vaccinated. Classy of you to just assume things about me that are 100% incorrect.

Got it so you're in the zero COVID camp? That's even less logical.

COVID is endemic. It will be infecting people for the rest of our lives. If you are fully vaccinated, it is over for you as much as the flu is, if not moreso.

And when you give smart ass one sentence responses without explaining your views, what do you expect people to think?

[Horus]

Covid is over.

Nope, not even close.

For vaccinated Americans, COVID is over.

Also a nope.

It's very much a yes. Let me guess, you're a "long COVID" alarmist? lmao

Or do you just distrust vaccine efficacy like most eternal maskers?

It’s very much a no because people are still being infected and there are still too many who are not vaccinated. Classy of you to just assume things about me that are 100% incorrect.

Got it so you're in the zero COVID camp? That's even less logical.

COVID is endemic. It will be infecting people for the rest of our lives. If you are fully vaccinated, it is over for you as much as the flu is, if not moreso.

Nope, not in that camp either. You’re doing really well here!

It’s just too early for anyone to declare it being over. This won’t go on forever, I’m pretty sure of that.

It's over when society decides it's over. Obviously we have different definitions of over because for me and my loved ones, it is. You can wait for your impossible to reach and always changing benchmarks if you'd like.

[Horus]

Covid is over.

Nope, not even close.

For vaccinated Americans, COVID is over.

Also a nope.

It's very much a yes. Let me guess, you're a "long COVID" alarmist? lmao

Or do you just distrust vaccine efficacy like most eternal maskers?

It’s very much a no because people are still being infected and there are still too many who are not vaccinated. Classy of you to just assume things about me that are 100% incorrect.

Got it so you're in the zero COVID camp? That's even less logical.

COVID is endemic. It will be infecting people for the rest of our lives. If you are fully vaccinated, it is over for you as much as the flu is, if not moreso.

Nope, not in that camp either. You’re doing really well here!

It’s just too early for anyone to declare it being over. This won’t go on forever, I’m pretty sure of that.

It's over when society decides it's over. Obviously we have different definitions of over because for me and my loved ones, it is. You can wait for your impossible to reach and always changing benchmarks if you'd like.

There you go again with an incorrect assumption. My benchmarks haven’t changed at all and aren’t impossible to reach. We are slowly getting to a certain point, we just aren’t quite there. I don’t necessarily enjoy wearing a mask, but it’s not the end of the world. Eventually, we won’t have to wear them.

Eventually is now. I don't wear my mask much of anywhere. Just the doctor and the airport.

And "not quite there" is a far cry from "not even close" which is what you were saying yesterday.

[Horus]

Chicago Teachers Union gearing up for walk out over COVID safety concerns

https://www.wbez.org/stories/chicago-students-to-return-to-class-monday-amid-debate-over-covid-19-safety/086d207e-9bdc-4a74-9eac-7faf5dc1770d

Major development here in Chicago

This is absolutely ridiculous. If you’re scared about COVID, then get vaccinated, and you’ll be fine. There’s absolutely no reason for anyone to want to work at home anymore, unless you’re counting “wanting to do less work” as a reason.

I agree. I’d add that one complicating factor they’re also weighing is staffing shortages. There’s worry over whether, with so many staff in quarantine or isolation, schools will be able to run properly in person.

A simple solution is a vaccine mandate for teachers so this whole issue can be ended.

I work at an office job in which attendance in the office is optional, but anyone who decides to go into the office must prove that they’re vaccinated.  Despite this, there are breakthrough cases, and a few days before Christmas, the office was shut down (and will remain so at least through the end of this week) because of an uptick in breakthrough cases.  There are no known cases so far in which one person with a breakthrough case in the office infected someone else in the office.  But still, whenever someone gets a breakthrough case, they’re sent home, regardless of whether they’re symptomatic.

So this is the question for in person schooling, I’d think: Even if there’s mandatory vaccination, there’ll be breakthrough cases.  With the current Omicron wave, there are quite a few breakthrough cases, but the vaccines limit the severity of the infections, and in many cases they’re asymptomatic.  So if there’s mandatory vaccination, and all teachers and students are vaccinated, but we get a bunch of asymptomatic breakthrough cases amongst teachers, then do we tell them to show up to teach at school anyway, or do we send them home to quarantine?  If the latter, then you could still have staffing shortages despite the vaccination requirement.

This is the same issue that was previously discussed w/ airline pilots.  If they test positive, they're sent home, regardless of whether they have symptoms.

It's not enough to have a vaccine requirement.  The key turn that would have to happen to end this would be to reach a point where someone getting an asymptomatic breakthrough case is treated as no big deal in terms of their threat to others, such that they can continue on the job rather than being sent home.

Will this ever happen? A solid third, at least, of the country is still absolutely petrified of anything COVID. Even if lethality drops to below that of a cold, they will still be terrified. I'm not confident this will ever occur.

[Horus]

Fine then, total hospitalizations in the US are at about 100K and quickly rising. Absolute peak was at 140K last winter. NY and NJ have passed their hospitalization peaks from last winter.

I understand all the hopium and copium that people here are huffing in large quantities on the subject of Omicron, but "mild" does not mean "harmless". Yes, Omicron is milder than Delta, particularly for vaccinated people. No, it's not harmless; there's no way the common cold or the flu caused hospitalizations at this level in the past. And no, the pandemic is not over, despite how much you want it to be. The virus couldn't care less about how over it you are.

Several points about this are questionable:
First and foremost, Delta is still circulating. People seem to be ignoring this point, so trying to hype omicron up into something more significant is grasping at straws.

Second, there have been several articles about the dominant flu strain this year (which is also one of the more severe ones) not matching the vaccines that are out, which is almost certainly behind the increase in hospitalizations.

Third, if you are hospitalized--no matter what reason--and test positive on screening, you are counted among covid hospitalizations. This is a point the CDC has been clear about in their studies, but everybody ignores when reporting the daily numbers. It's also worth noting many ICUs are near capacity even with only a quarter or so of those being COVID patients--we have a major capacity problem in general that is going ignored by much of the media.

And most importantly, the pandemic is now being driven entirely by the unvaccinated. At this point we need either penalization or incentive--hell, I'd be fine with just paying these people $10k or something to get vaccinated so we can get back to a functioning society. Continuing on the Covid Zero nonsense is destructive, both in the short and the longer term.

More copium here:

1. Delta is rapidly being replaced by Omicron, particularly in the Northeast and South where cases have exploded. Yes the CDC's modeling was proven to be shoddy when they "adjusted" the proportion by 50%, but it's still all we have, and it does line up with the fact that cases are exploding in a fashion we have not seen at any point since March 2020.

2. We're talking number of COVID hospitalizations, flu is not relevant.

3. NYC will soon separate the data in the way that you want. I think you're wrong and that most of these COVID hospitalizations are hospitalizations due to COVID, but we'll see.

4. Having a segment of the proportion unvaccinated is like a law of nature in the USA. There's a bunch of numbskulls that just won't get it and there's enough of them that the Republicans see political advantage in catering to them. They're here to stay and that's not going to change. I find it strange that people on this forum are totally in favor of vaccine mandates but strongly against mask mandates, when vaccine mandates are more intrusive and harder to implement and enforce. Remember every state had an indoor mask mandate at one point.

Calling the current government inaction a "COVID Zero" strategy is just a complete farce, and we all agreed that private entites have the right to restrict themselves or close themselves down. It's great to see private entities particularly in the Northeast recognize that Omicron is a threat and are taking action themselves in place of the government which won't do anything, such as ordering employees to WFH, cancelling holiday parties, restricting their hours, restaurants closing dining rooms, or even shutting down entirely for stretches.

A poke in the arm 2-3 times a year is far, far less intrusive than having an anti humanity mask forced on you for the rest of your life.

[Horus]

Fine then, total hospitalizations in the US are at about 100K and quickly rising. Absolute peak was at 140K last winter. NY and NJ have passed their hospitalization peaks from last winter.

I understand all the hopium and copium that people here are huffing in large quantities on the subject of Omicron, but "mild" does not mean "harmless". Yes, Omicron is milder than Delta, particularly for vaccinated people. No, it's not harmless; there's no way the common cold or the flu caused hospitalizations at this level in the past. And no, the pandemic is not over, despite how much you want it to be. The virus couldn't care less about how over it you are.

Several points about this are questionable:
First and foremost, Delta is still circulating. People seem to be ignoring this point, so trying to hype omicron up into something more significant is grasping at straws.

Second, there have been several articles about the dominant flu strain this year (which is also one of the more severe ones) not matching the vaccines that are out, which is almost certainly behind the increase in hospitalizations.

Third, if you are hospitalized--no matter what reason--and test positive on screening, you are counted among covid hospitalizations. This is a point the CDC has been clear about in their studies, but everybody ignores when reporting the daily numbers. It's also worth noting many ICUs are near capacity even with only a quarter or so of those being COVID patients--we have a major capacity problem in general that is going ignored by much of the media.

And most importantly, the pandemic is now being driven entirely by the unvaccinated. At this point we need either penalization or incentive--hell, I'd be fine with just paying these people $10k or something to get vaccinated so we can get back to a functioning society. Continuing on the Covid Zero nonsense is destructive, both in the short and the longer term.

More copium here:

1. Delta is rapidly being replaced by Omicron, particularly in the Northeast and South where cases have exploded. Yes the CDC's modeling was proven to be shoddy when they "adjusted" the proportion by 50%, but it's still all we have, and it does line up with the fact that cases are exploding in a fashion we have not seen at any point since March 2020.

2. We're talking number of COVID hospitalizations, flu is not relevant.

3. NYC will soon separate the data in the way that you want. I think you're wrong and that most of these COVID hospitalizations are hospitalizations due to COVID, but we'll see.

4. Having a segment of the proportion unvaccinated is like a law of nature in the USA. There's a bunch of numbskulls that just won't get it and there's enough of them that the Republicans see political advantage in catering to them. They're here to stay and that's not going to change. I find it strange that people on this forum are totally in favor of vaccine mandates but strongly against mask mandates, when vaccine mandates are more intrusive and harder to implement and enforce. Remember every state had an indoor mask mandate at one point.

Calling the current government inaction a "COVID Zero" strategy is just a complete farce, and we all agreed that private entites have the right to restrict themselves or close themselves down. It's great to see private entities particularly in the Northeast recognize that Omicron is a threat and are taking action themselves in place of the government which won't do anything, such as ordering employees to WFH, cancelling holiday parties, restricting their hours, restaurants closing dining rooms, or even shutting down entirely for stretches.

A poke in the arm 2-3 times a year is far, far less intrusive than having an anti humanity mask forced on you for the rest of your life.

You're just wrong on this. I'm in favor of vaccine mandates but telling people that they have to inject a substance into their bodies is far more intrusive than telling them they have to wear a certain piece of clothing. You wear a shirt and shoes to get service, right? Also smoking is not allowed indoors?

People on this forum are totally out of touch with reality on this. Remember all 50 states implemented indoor mask mandates even without the federal government applying any coercion.

Human breath =\= smoking.

[Horus]

Fine then, total hospitalizations in the US are at about 100K and quickly rising. Absolute peak was at 140K last winter. NY and NJ have passed their hospitalization peaks from last winter.

I understand all the hopium and copium that people here are huffing in large quantities on the subject of Omicron, but "mild" does not mean "harmless". Yes, Omicron is milder than Delta, particularly for vaccinated people. No, it's not harmless; there's no way the common cold or the flu caused hospitalizations at this level in the past. And no, the pandemic is not over, despite how much you want it to be. The virus couldn't care less about how over it you are.

Several points about this are questionable:
First and foremost, Delta is still circulating. People seem to be ignoring this point, so trying to hype omicron up into something more significant is grasping at straws.

Second, there have been several articles about the dominant flu strain this year (which is also one of the more severe ones) not matching the vaccines that are out, which is almost certainly behind the increase in hospitalizations.

Third, if you are hospitalized--no matter what reason--and test positive on screening, you are counted among covid hospitalizations. This is a point the CDC has been clear about in their studies, but everybody ignores when reporting the daily numbers. It's also worth noting many ICUs are near capacity even with only a quarter or so of those being COVID patients--we have a major capacity problem in general that is going ignored by much of the media.

And most importantly, the pandemic is now being driven entirely by the unvaccinated. At this point we need either penalization or incentive--hell, I'd be fine with just paying these people $10k or something to get vaccinated so we can get back to a functioning society. Continuing on the Covid Zero nonsense is destructive, both in the short and the longer term.

More copium here:

1. Delta is rapidly being replaced by Omicron, particularly in the Northeast and South where cases have exploded. Yes the CDC's modeling was proven to be shoddy when they "adjusted" the proportion by 50%, but it's still all we have, and it does line up with the fact that cases are exploding in a fashion we have not seen at any point since March 2020.

2. We're talking number of COVID hospitalizations, flu is not relevant.

3. NYC will soon separate the data in the way that you want. I think you're wrong and that most of these COVID hospitalizations are hospitalizations due to COVID, but we'll see.

4. Having a segment of the proportion unvaccinated is like a law of nature in the USA. There's a bunch of numbskulls that just won't get it and there's enough of them that the Republicans see political advantage in catering to them. They're here to stay and that's not going to change. I find it strange that people on this forum are totally in favor of vaccine mandates but strongly against mask mandates, when vaccine mandates are more intrusive and harder to implement and enforce. Remember every state had an indoor mask mandate at one point.

Calling the current government inaction a "COVID Zero" strategy is just a complete farce, and we all agreed that private entites have the right to restrict themselves or close themselves down. It's great to see private entities particularly in the Northeast recognize that Omicron is a threat and are taking action themselves in place of the government which won't do anything, such as ordering employees to WFH, cancelling holiday parties, restricting their hours, restaurants closing dining rooms, or even shutting down entirely for stretches.

A poke in the arm 2-3 times a year is far, far less intrusive than having an anti humanity mask forced on you for the rest of your life.

You're just wrong on this. I'm in favor of vaccine mandates but telling people that they have to inject a substance into their bodies is far more intrusive than telling them they have to wear a certain piece of clothing. You wear a shirt and shoes to get service, right? Also smoking is not allowed indoors?

People on this forum are totally out of touch with reality on this. Remember all 50 states implemented indoor mask mandates even without the federal government applying any coercion.

Human breath =\= smoking.

COVID breath is more noxious than secondhand smoke. Also you conveniently ignored the part where you claimed that getting injected is less intrusive than putting on a piece of clothing, a clearly ludicrous statement.

It is. Getting injected lasts a few seconds per year.. Wearing an unnecessary piece of cloth for hours a day that limits human interaction, makes the world impossible to access for deaf people and makes society dystopian is far, far more damaging.

Fortunately omicron is the end of COVID.

[Horus]

https://twitter.com/NewDay/status/1478365316048736257

What the hell? The first (D) politician that cares about kids from poor families, not about wealthy lib donors TDS! 🤯

He's really, really good. Totally owns and debunks CNN's talking points. WOW!

The kvetching from the lockdown crowd is absolutely glorious.

[Horus]

This woman's son tested positive for COVID...

...so she decided to put him in the trunk of her car.

And she is, of course, a teacher.

https://m.worldstarhiphop.com/web/video.php?v=wshhv3mDO4TV6VpQE1v0

[Horus]

C) You should only do a PCR test if you have tested positive on the antigen test (they are super expensive anyways so why would you test?)

Because I have a life and want to spend the next two weeks living it instead of hiding inside waiting to find out whether or not I have COVID.  But I also don't want to spread COVID to dozens of other people, especially people I care about, if I do have it.

Dude that ain't cool.  There's literally people that need to get those tests to come back negative in order to get back to work.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here, are you implying I shouldn't get tested even after spending significant time with someone who was infected with COVID, because someone else might need the test more than me?

Correct. It's selfish to hog tests if you're low risk.

[Horus]

C) You should only do a PCR test if you have tested positive on the antigen test (they are super expensive anyways so why would you test?)

Because I have a life and want to spend the next two weeks living it instead of hiding inside waiting to find out whether or not I have COVID.  But I also don't want to spread COVID to dozens of other people, especially people I care about, if I do have it.

Dude that ain't cool.  There's literally people that need to get those tests to come back negative in order to get back to work.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here, are you implying I shouldn't get tested even after spending significant time with someone who was infected with COVID, because someone else might need the test more than me?

Correct. It's selfish to hog tests if you're low risk.

Tell that to my loved ones who don't want to get COVID from me.

Your loved ones are going to get omicron from someone no matter what.

You can't dodge it.