Israel-Gaza war

[Isaak]

In Israel there is talk about RZ and Otzma having to leave the government for the sake of national unity, but I would actually argue it's the Haredim who need to go now. You don't deserve to decide on the (way of) deployment of the army if you fight vehemently to have everyone in the country serve in it except for your own community.

Yeah, I've been wondering if this will be the moment that would finally force the Haredim to do their fair share to defend and support the country that protects their way of life. I agree with them that Torah study should be part of the fabric of a Jewish state, but certainly not at the expense of literally everything else. Their kollelim don't defend themselves.

Military needs are much higher than they were 3 days ago, and Israel can't afford to have 20% of its Jewish population not contributing.

So you want Israel to be even more of a theocracy than it already is.

Do you know what the term "theocracy" means? Because Israel is currently light years away from being one.

But, well, this is a board where everything is also a "genocide" or "ethnic cleansing" these days...

[Isaak]

I'll join the fun.

I like Netanyahu/Israel and Biden's response so far. A few more days of continuous bombing in Gaza and targeted killings of Hamas fighters should lead to an end of the conflict within the next few weeks; but part of me does have a feeling that some other Islamic country will try to involve themselves deeper in this - leading to worsened escalation. Let's hope not, but we'll see.

“Islamic Country”?
The only countries which have even a remote possibility of getting involved on behalf of Hamas are Iran and Syria, and neither of those are likely. Unless you think Bosnia and Bangladesh are gonna start funneling money to bus bombs just because they read the same book…

Nobody else in the Arab World wants to touch this lmao. Palestine is probably screwed long term.

Well, there are already rumors Iran orchestrated planning of it. Zelenskyy seems to be under the impression that Ukraine has evidence of Russian participation as well. There's also Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Turkey nearby; all with differing relations to the U.S. and long-term goals. I wouldn't disqualify the possibility that things become much worse internationally.

Why would Iraq, Lebanon or Turkey (a NATO member state?!) get involved in any way? The first two are the epitome of regime dysfunctionality, and the latter has nothing to gain and an incredible amount to lose.

[Isaak]

I think the brutal truth is that the Egyptian government would rather the Israelis kill them (directly or indirectly) than have to look after 2 million refugees.

In that case, which party would be the main culprit: Egypt for not accepting them, or Israel for killing them? Should Egypt accept to resettle two million of Gazans in permanent refugee camps located in the Sinai peninsula?

Of course not. Why should Egypt accept the settlement of two million Palestinians anywhere on its territory? These people are not Egypt's problem and never will be

[Isaak]

I guess Putin will have some company in The Hague for when they will be tried for war crimes.

Don't think there will be many living Hamas leaders who can be tried after this war ends.

Europe is going to be a mixed bag; while some European governments will likely be accommodating, other European governments are controlled by either Islamophobic or anti-Semitic actors (or both), meaning they will NOT accept refugees.

What are you talking about? Which European governments are controlled by anti-Semitic actors? And why would any such actor be against accepting refugees from Gaza?

Still, given the anti-Semitic outbursts throughout Western Europe, it would be quite difficult to find anyone in favor of importing "more of the same" – you don't have to be Islamophobic to reach the conclusion that there are major problems with this group.

[Isaak]

To all the posters that are being critical of Israel. What would you have done if you were Israel After the Hamas abducted/raped/decapitated a ton of israeli children ?


Death toll is terrible in Gaza but I genuinely don't see how Hamas shouldn't be entirely blamed for that.

I would not go in and genocide a group of people because of terrorists. Responding to Hamas by becoming Hamas isn't the answer.

Do y'all know what a genocide is?? Cuz it isn't civilian casualties and that's it

Exactly.

But according to some users here...

...any military operation that results in more than a few dozen civilian casualties is a "genocide".
...any such operation carried out by the IDF is also "ethnic cleansing".
...any policy that deviates even slightly from secular modernity is "theocratic".

Well, it's one way to make these terms meaningless.

(By the way – the IDF is the only "genocidal" force in the world that actively seeks to minimize civilian casualties. It seems they haven't quite understood what their job ist... or they're terribly bad at it.)

[Isaak]

cutting off aid to Israel is not wise for US interests.

Right now no given how it would look, but our past decade of allowing our money to flow to the increasingly illiberal and traitorous (I care more about this one tbh) country has also not been in our interests. It’s clear our status quo policy did not work, and Israeli leadership needs to be reminded that they are supposed to be our puppet and not the other way around.

Just a reminder that the US is not the center of the universe. Israel has never been its "puppet" (LOL at using this term unironically) and has every right to conduct its foreign policy in accordance with its own national interests. If these don't fully align with those of the US... well, that's not Israel's problem.

And guess what? The US is still going to pay. Because given the politics in the region, even a "traitorous" (LOL again) Israel is a far greater strategic asset than any other ally it has.

[Isaak]

As it turns out, the Israeli's had already bombed this hospital a few days previously. But of course they wouldn't do such a thing a second time.

https://www.anglicannews.org/news/2023/10/anglican-run-al-ahli-arab-hospital-in-gaza-damaged-by-israeli-rocket-fire-as-conflict-continues.aspx

Not a good day for the credibility of neoconservative propagandists and online intelligence assets spreading naked disinfo.

The horseshoe theory is real especially when it comes to foreign policy

Every time I see this term thrown around, it involves reactions to people expressing their empathy for mistreated, bombed or starving people (yes, even brown people — shocking!) and their opposition to the actors committing those crimes, so it probably says a lot more about the 'centrist' people using that term than it does about the term itself..

Israel didnt commit those crimes

I don’t care whether they committed that particular crime (although the idea that most Western media outlets are biased in favor of Palestine in its coverage of this conflict or that the IDF doesn’t have the superior propaganda machine here is preposterous), they’ve already committed more than enough other disproportionate war crimes which have led to preventable deaths among an already suffering, terrorized (especially by the sound of air raid sirens and strikes) and isolated civilian population without any future. A lot of people on the right are fine with that because we’re talking about brown people and Muslims being bombed here, they just won’t say the quiet part out loud.

I have never said those deaths are not tragic, as they 100% are. The question is , what should Israel about the fact:

- Hamas and the PLO have zero interest in peace at all and just want to drive Israel out.

- Egypt and Jordan refuse to help out one bit. Like if Egypt is willing to incorporate Gaza into their nation, the problem would not be anywhere near as bad

- Iran keeps funding Hamas and Hezbollah

- Israel has tried for peace over and over and been rejected


When is it the fault goes to the people leading Palestinians for Palestinians not having a state and there not being peace and when is it the other nation's in the region's fault for behaving the way they do.

 

You make this sound like it would be a small thing. But any annexation of Gaza (without asking its inhabitants?) would be a highly dangerous game for the Egyptian government – and not a simple case of "helping out".

To be honest, it is really tiring to read the ever same fantasies in this thread. Neither will Egypt participate in the administration of the Palestinian Territories nor will any Arab nation accept a significant number of Gazan refugees. They have nothing to gain from making Israel's problem their own. And despite their occasional lip services, they couldn't care less about the fate of the Palestinians.

[Isaak]

The strike on the refugee camp by the IDF is horrific and unacceptable. Shame on Netanyahu and his ilk.

Atrocities do not justify atrocities.

I don't think a Gantz or Lapid led gov would've done anything differently here.

Agree. I really think this whole Netanyahu blame game is a little cheap. His options are obviously extremely limited and almost any other Israeli PM would act similarly.

[Isaak]

https://twitter.com/PaulAustinMurp2/status/1729834160733266143
I don't like simplistic views about foreign policy. It reminds me W Bush and Co.
"You're either with me or against me."

I hate injustice, but beware simplistic views and opinions.

I'm asking how millennials and Gen Z will conduct foreign policy when they'll be in power.

Wow, I didn't know that DR Congo was on the right side of history. I'm sticking with the "white" side though.

I'm asking how millennials and Gen Z will conduct foreign policy when they'll be in power.

Just as those currently in power are doing. Because once they have grown up, they will have to face reality as it is.

[Isaak]

Is this ISIS?

No, it's the IDF (Israel Defence Forces).

Seriously, what is wrong with you? This is a million times better than these terrorists deserve. They were not nearly as humane when they barbarically slaughtered dozens of IDF soldiers on October 7.