Israel-Gaza war

[Ferguson97]

Iranian embassy in Syria: "time is up"

what the hell did they mean by this

https://twitter.com/IranembassyDam/status/1714441734300524929

[Indy Texas]

It's clear this is becoming an inflection point in international sentiment. Over a decade of diplomacy with Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States has been incinerated. The West Bank has become a powder keg.

If Israel did not bomb the hospital, they need to release all of the available video footage from before, during and after the explosion so the public can see for themselves just what did or did not happen.

And they'd better do it now, before POTUS arrives and they have an opportunity to tank our international standing along with theirs.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I don't buy Hamas hitting their own hospital for one second.

[Ferguson97]

I don't buy Hamas hitting their own hospital for one second.

Assad gassed his own people, why would this be any different?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

I don't buy Hamas hitting their own hospital for one second.

Assad gassed his own people, why would this be any different?

No one is is saying that Hamas blew up the hospital intentionally.

[pppolitics]

It's clear this is becoming an inflection point in international sentiment. Over a decade of diplomacy with Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States has been incinerated. The West Bank has become a powder keg.

If Israel did not bomb the hospital, they need to release all of the available video footage from before, during and after the explosion so the public can see for themselves just what did or did not happen.

And they'd better do it now, before POTUS arrives and they have an opportunity to tank our international standing along with theirs.

This is not a good look.

Biden should cancel the trip.

[YPestis25]

Does anyone have any information on the Iranian reaction? The tweet from the embassy in Damascus certainly seems to indicate something serious is coming.

[Meclazine for Israel]

The IDF has an overhead UAV or Satellite imagery of the event of the Gaza Hospital explosion.

The IDF will release this footage. I saw it briefly on the TV. There is no doubt it will reveal the actual truth, but it's not on the internet yet.

Things to keep in mind:

1. Israel announce which building they are about to destroy giving time for evacuation of civilians.
2. This building was not on their list.
3. In the last fight between Hamas and Israel, 30-40% of all rockets launched from Gaza landed inside Gaza.
4. Hamas store weapons and have their rocket launch sites in hospitals and schools.
5. Video footage of the event was captured showing a Hamas rocket launch preceding the hospital explosion.

Gaza Live Stream (referenced times top left)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtruJztXE5w

Alleged Rocket Launch: 19:59:43 (Top Cam)
Rockets Intercepted 20:01:15- 20:20:25 (Bottom Right Cam)

The time of the hospital explosion has not been released.

I cannot pinpoint it on that footage. You can hear an explosions at 20:00:05, 22 seconds later.

We will have to wait for the overhead footage to be released to verify what happened.

Time, locations, missiles, rockets etc. It appeared to have 5cm resolution with black and white footage looking straight down on the exact moment the explosion occurred.

Meanwhile, the US President thought it might be useful to pay the Middle East a visit.

Joe Biden heading to Tel Aviv

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1u1zY5loFg

[lfromnj]

Are there any instances of Palestinian missiles causing this kind of damage? I imagine terrorists would have done so already against Israeli target. Perhaps capable but missed? Or is this clearly a bunker buster?

No, there are not, because Israel does not need to hide weapons depots in hospitals. This is very clearly 'something set off an explosion on or under the ground'.

Anyway, more fun media bias news (just from today!) -- compare story to headline:

https://twitter.com/PyriticVictory/status/1714382118770401512

Not sure whats wtf considering Israel actually did a 1 for 1000 trade 10 years ago.

The headline might be cut off depending on your browser, but the headline is 'Hamas says it's willing to release all civilian hostages immediately if Gaza bombing stops'. The article reveals that there are other pretty large demands.

Israel did do a 1 for 1000 trade 10 years ago, but it was deeply unpopular with the public, obviously bad policy, certainly contributed to where we are today by incentivizing Hamas to take hostages, and I would really hope we're not living in a world stupid enough for that mistake to happen twice. "There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee..."

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4135847,00.html
It had 80% support and it makes some sense. IDf soldiers are conscripts after all.

[Vosem]

https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1714381171901997133

Apparently rocket motor failure can explain the second blast, rather than explosives on the ground, though I still think explosives on the ground is the simplest solution and therefore the likeliest.

In any case, Meclazine, I suspect anything shown on TV has been on the Internet for a while, and I doubt there's any more footage left to release; both governments have made their points and I'd be surprised if there's more stuff either has (not to say that, like, security camera footage might not be found later, but I don't think there's anything one side or the other is waiting to release). OSINT accounts have basically settled on the IDF explanation of "Palestinian rocket hit the hospital and caused the explosion", though I don't think there's any conclusive account of what caused the explosion available. (My very very strong guess is "the hospital was used to store rockets and something like this is true for every hospital in Gaza", which would be consistent with prior practice, but it's not as though I've physically been there and can prove it.) There might be postwar investigations which can uncover something, but I think for the moment we've gotten all the information we're getting.

Are there any instances of Palestinian missiles causing this kind of damage? I imagine terrorists would have done so already against Israeli target. Perhaps capable but missed? Or is this clearly a bunker buster?

No, there are not, because Israel does not need to hide weapons depots in hospitals. This is very clearly 'something set off an explosion on or under the ground'.

Anyway, more fun media bias news (just from today!) -- compare story to headline:

https://twitter.com/PyriticVictory/status/1714382118770401512

Not sure whats wtf considering Israel actually did a 1 for 1000 trade 10 years ago.

The headline might be cut off depending on your browser, but the headline is 'Hamas says it's willing to release all civilian hostages immediately if Gaza bombing stops'. The article reveals that there are other pretty large demands.

Israel did do a 1 for 1000 trade 10 years ago, but it was deeply unpopular with the public, obviously bad policy, certainly contributed to where we are today by incentivizing Hamas to take hostages, and I would really hope we're not living in a world stupid enough for that mistake to happen twice. "There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee..."

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4135847,00.html
It had 80% support and it makes some sense. IDf soldiers are conscripts after all.

It was popular at the time, but it's since become a staple of anti-Netanyahu rhetoric and an example of him being too soft on the Palestinian issue; here's Bennett critiquing him over it and here's Livni. It's legacy is very negative; there are counts of how many Israelis have been killed by individuals released in the exchange (though the exact numbers vary) and it's very unlikely to happen again.

It's clear this is becoming an inflection point in international sentiment. Over a decade of diplomacy with Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States has been incinerated. The West Bank has become a powder keg.

If Israel did not bomb the hospital, they need to release all of the available video footage from before, during and after the explosion so the public can see for themselves just what did or did not happen.

And they'd better do it now, before POTUS arrives and they have an opportunity to tank our international standing along with theirs.

This is not a good look.

Biden should cancel the trip.

Isn't it? I feel like a lot of the "not a good look" stuff between 2009-19 ended up working out in Israel's favor in public opinion, and it's at least possible to imagine that reflecting on Biden himself. So far in this conflict at least in the West public opinion has been pretty uniformly pro-Israel, but then that makes sense given decades of shifts.

[Meclazine for Israel]

In any case, Meclazine, I suspect anything shown on TV has been on the Internet for a while, and I doubt there's any more footage left to release;

Nice work. That definitely confirms the timing of the event that is shown.

The footage I saw on Australian TV from the Israeli's is super-super detailed from above looking straight down.

They will provide evidence from this event which they will release:

Lt Col Jonathan Conricus Speaks


(Israel's Defence Forces spokesperson Lieutenant Colonel Jonathan Conricus told Sky News Australia it will release audio and visuals that were "proof" terrorists had misfired a rocket that struck a Gaza hospital on Tuesday, killing hundreds of people. Picture: idf.il)

Jonathan is 100% certain. The IDF will release this aerial footage in the next couple of hours concerning this misfire from Islamic Jihad. I just saw a few seconds on TV a little while ago. It's not on the internet.

Jonathan also raised the issue of a civilian massacre of Gaza citizens trying to move south out of Gaza City last Friday. He suggested they were killed and the southern main road was destroyed by Hamas-directed explosions.

Hamas appears to be killing it's own citizens if what he is saying can be proven.

Audio and video footage soon to be provided surrounding the Gaza Hospital strike.

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

We all eagerly await Israel's airtight proof that they didn't assassinate Shireen Abu Akleh bomb the hospital

EDIT: Another example of the IDF demonstrating their legendary capacity for honesty:

Last week, an Israel Defense Forces spokesman told CNN: "I can tell you with certainty that white phosphorus is absolutely not being used."

1 week later:

Israel has admitted – after mounting pressure – that its troops may have used white phosphorus shells in contravention of international law, during its three-week offensive in the Gaza Strip.

One of the places most seriously affected by the use of white phosphorus was the main UN compound in Gaza City, which was hit by three shells on 15 January. The same munition was used in a strike on the al-Quds hospital in Gaza City the same day.

Under review by Colonel Shai Alkalai is the use of white phosphorus by a reserve paratroop brigade in northern Israel.

According to army sources the brigade fired up to 20 phosphorus shells in a heavily built-up area around the Gaza township of Beit Lahiya, one of the worst hit areas of Gaza.

[Illiniwek]

It's clear this is becoming an inflection point in international sentiment. Over a decade of diplomacy with Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States has been incinerated. The West Bank has become a powder keg.

If Israel did not bomb the hospital, they need to release all of the available video footage from before, during and after the explosion so the public can see for themselves just what did or did not happen.

And they'd better do it now, before POTUS arrives and they have an opportunity to tank our international standing along with theirs.

This is not a good look.

Biden should cancel the trip.

I agree, if I’m him I turn the plane around.

[NOVA Green]

I mean, they legitimately don't just level buildings with hundreds of civilian casualties, but either way it seems nobody is disputing "there was a depot in the hospital and it blew up", which I think is sufficient to assign blame.

Possibly the Israelis struck something in the hospital and caused a much bigger explosion than they'd anticipated.

It's common for warships to be sunk not from the initial impact of the missile but a fire causing the magazines to explode. That's why firefighting is a key part of all sailors' training.

Plausible...

Hospitals traditionally also utilize tons of compressed gas cylinders, not to mention perhaps Natural Gas tanks, many of the extremely flammables would likely be staged in outdoor storage areas and concrete pads.

Still not hard to envision a scenario that Hamas or IJ tosses up a few tiny rockets from a concrete surface slab, boot scoots and boogies, and Israeli artillery does the massive counter-barrage (40) minutes later and hits an outdoor tarmac with a massive refugee tent as well as Compressed Gas vessels, which cause the massive civilian casualty numbers.

Honestly seems a bit more plausible than:

1.) Hamas / PIJ Rocket Malfunction

2.) Israeli jet strike hits Ammo Dump, which conveniently just happened to be staged outside and not underground in bunkers / tunnels.

Reality is that both Hamas and Israel have reasons to potentially distort breaking news events for their own benefits.

Still, both Hamas and Israel have reasons to cloud events, but either way one looks at it, this is definitely a massive net negative for Israel when it comes to regional and global public opinion.

The USA was supposed to represent the brand of massive targeted strikes with minimum of civilian casualties as opposed to the wars of old.

Israel naturally has frequently enjoined extremely targeted strikes.

Regardless of what exactly caused this horrific human tragedy, it is clear that currently the threat to Israeli Civilians are mostly minimized, and it is incumbent upon Israel to absolutely and completely minimize any mass civilian casualty deaths in Gaza, considering where we are at now.

[Horus]

It's clear this is becoming an inflection point in international sentiment. Over a decade of diplomacy with Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States has been incinerated. The West Bank has become a powder keg.

If Israel did not bomb the hospital, they need to release all of the available video footage from before, during and after the explosion so the public can see for themselves just what did or did not happen.

And they'd better do it now, before POTUS arrives and they have an opportunity to tank our international standing along with theirs.

This is not a good look.

Biden should cancel the trip.

I agree, if I’m him I turn the plane around.

He won't do it. While his rhetoric is a bit less pro Israel than his predecessors, I just don't see this happening. He will meet with Bibi and make a speech about "full commitment to Israel" that no one under age 45 will like other than GMac.

[GALeftist]

https://twitter.com/ME_Observer_/status/1714335552252653989

That thread I posted earlier notwithstanding, one thing that I haven't found a satisfactory explanation for is why there's this whistling noise before the hospital gets hit. It sure seems like something that's moving faster than terminal velocity, and other videos I've found of Israeli airstrikes have remarkably similar whistles. Again, not an expert, and I think I'm still leaning towards the PIJ missile theory, but (it seems to me) a warhead detached from its missile wouldn't be accelerating like this.

[pppolitics]

It's clear this is becoming an inflection point in international sentiment. Over a decade of diplomacy with Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States has been incinerated. The West Bank has become a powder keg.

If Israel did not bomb the hospital, they need to release all of the available video footage from before, during and after the explosion so the public can see for themselves just what did or did not happen.

And they'd better do it now, before POTUS arrives and they have an opportunity to tank our international standing along with theirs.

This is not a good look.

Biden should cancel the trip.

I agree, if I’m him I turn the plane around.

He won't do it. While his rhetoric is a bit less pro Israel than his predecessors, I just don't see this happening. He will meet with Bibi and make a speech about "full commitment to Israel" that no one under age 45 will like other than GMac.

He is just adding fuel to the fire.

Let's be honest: absolutely nobody believes that the US can be an honest broker (in this case).

Everyone knows that the US is covering Israel's ass.

[Pericles]

I hate how the worst people are on the right side of the argument in this conflict.

[pppolitics]

https://twitter.com/ME_Observer_/status/1714335552252653989

That thread I posted earlier notwithstanding, one thing that I haven't found a satisfactory explanation for is why there's this whistling noise before the hospital gets hit. It sure seems like something that's moving faster than terminal velocity, and other videos I've found of Israeli airstrikes have remarkably similar whistles. Again, not an expert, and I think I'm still leaning towards the PIJ missile theory, but (it seems to me) a warhead detached from its missile wouldn't be accelerating like this.

A lot of users on Twitter are claiming the sound is "proof" that the attack was caused by a JDAM.

[Vosem]

I hate how the worst people are on the right side of the argument in this conflict.

This is me. When you're being mean to me, this is who you're being mean to.



For those who don't get the joke, my username means "eight" in Russian, which is why it's an octopus.

[Yellowhammer]

As it turns out, the Israeli's had already bombed this hospital a few days previously. But of course they wouldn't do such a thing a second time.

https://www.anglicannews.org/news/2023/10/anglican-run-al-ahli-arab-hospital-in-gaza-damaged-by-israeli-rocket-fire-as-conflict-continues.aspx

Not a good day for the credibility of neoconservative propagandists and online intelligence assets spreading naked disinfo.

[NOVA Green]

Wow!

Extremely excited to see at least all these posters on this thread are actually discussing real events versus the major numbers of posts over the past couple days.

Congrats Atlas!

Now I can go back to lurk mode with occasional updates, now that it appears that posters are actually closer to "on-topic", versus the inanity and the clown show from so many posters we have seen over the past couple days.

I guess it takes a massive amount of civilian human deaths for Atlas to pay attention, to what has and is still going on, where we used to have tons of virtue Singler's, representing moral authority.

Still reminds me a bit of the legendary Leonard Cohen song from way back in the dayz: "The Story of Isaac".

This has happens to him playing live in Bonn Germany 1980.

[Meclazine for Israel]

....one thing that I haven't found a satisfactory explanation for is why there's this whistling noise before the hospital gets hit.

That is what they sound like. The sound will be different depending on the rocket, it's velocity relative to your location and relative to the speed of sound.

Hamas Rocket Hits Ashdod

https://youtu.be/8PyJRG5FfxY

Why don't we wait for the evidence to see what actually happened?

President Biden said the US will conduct an independent investigation.

I would say it's too early to be definitive either way until we see some video, audio and analysis of the munitions used.

[Donerail]

If we can just wrap some things up here:

IDF has released what they purport to be intercepted audio between two Hamas fighters, stating it was a PIJ rocket launched from a cemetery near the hospital that failed.
https://twitter.com/IDFSpokesperson/status/1714541413944250869

And if you don't trust the IDF (reasonable), Quds News has published a daylight photo of the site:
https://twitter.com/qudsn/status/1714521896723636575

No crater, and the surrounding buildings are mostly intact. Not conclusive, but it seems like a rocket failure, not an airstrike and not a secret weapons depot exploding.

Some are suggesting from the photograph that casualties may also be overstated, but without a look inside the hospital (and knowing thousands of people were sheltering in the hospital and on the grounds last night) I'd hesitate to draw any conclusions there.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Some are suggesting from the photograph that casualties may also be overstated, but without a look inside the hospital (and knowing thousands of people were sheltering in the hospital and on the grounds last night) I'd hesitate to draw any conclusions there.

Yes, that seems like hopium to me. Outright denying that this was a mass death of civilians just doesn't connect with reality.