COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[jamestroll]

I vote for Democrats because I support left wing policy.

But why why why why why is the left so pro lockdown?

Why are Democratic Governors and local officials willing to let millions have no income and potentially become homeless just to stop some old people from dying?

No stimulus = no lockdown. And to be frank our national debt is already high enough. The best decision of many bad decisions is to just keep the economy open and no new stimulus.

We might be getting to the point where lockdowns are necessary in some states. The latest stats look really bad.

I want to make it clear: I do not care how many people die from Covid-19 at this point.  With no federal stimulus money it is not worth leaving millions and millions homeless and incomeless just to keep some old people from dying. Let them die. I hate to say that but it is true. Do not destroy everyone's livelihoods permanently.

Of course, this discussion could be outdated in a few months. Vaccinations of even only the most vulnerable populations will be a major factor in allowing the economy to move again.

It'd only be for a few weeks so the hospitals don't get completely overloaded during the Winter. This wouldn't be permanent. Things will get much better in the Spring, but we could be headed for a very, very dark winter if we don't act fast.


And this is coming from someone who has largely advocated for re-opening the country for much of the year. The huge case surge during Winter is very, very concerning

again the pro lockdown nazis always side step my concerns about leaving millions of people without ZERO income even for a short period.

Pro lockdown nazi? I've been advocating for re-opening the country since May. But sometimes the facts change; we have a massive COVID surge during the most deadly time of the year in terms of illness. I just think certain areas in places like South Dakota might have to do a temporary lockdown just so there isn't mass death.

Obviously it should be paired with stimulus checks

We do not have any stimulus checks now! That is my whole point.

And even with stimulus checks it is not like most of those jobs would come back anyway. Who are you trying to fool?

[jamestroll]

Examining the situation for a few weeks now, I think we need a national lockdown for 3-4 weeks. Close all nonessential stores and prohibit any in person contacts outside your own household. Additionally, enforce rigorous mask mandates in supermarkets and other essential businesses. That's not a popular stance to take, but I see no other short term solutions. The number of daily new infections must be drastically reduced, or we lose many, many, many more lives. Even people who wouldn't die with proper treatment since the health system can't handle that many COVID-patients.

So millions should be completely incomeless for for a month?

You actually think red state citizens would follow lock downs? answer: they wont and the virus will continue to spread despite a national lockdown.

It works in other countries, so why can't we do the same?

I agree red state citizens won't take it seriously enough. That's why politicizing the pandemic was so horrible. Actually this crisis could help restore unity, at least temporarily, like happened after 9/11.

Again.. someone on the left is side stepping my concerns with people being incomeless..

and whats the point of locking down if most red staters will NOT follow it??? More economic damage for minimal benefit.

and we have almost 28 TRILLION DOLLARS of national debt! No more major stimulus packages please. I am done with this bull.

[jamestroll]

Examining the situation for a few weeks now, I think we need a national lockdown for 3-4 weeks. Close all nonessential stores and prohibit any in person contacts outside your own household. Additionally, enforce rigorous mask mandates in supermarkets and other essential businesses. That's not a popular stance to take, but I see no other short term solutions. The number of daily new infections must be drastically reduced, or we lose many, many, many more lives. Even people who wouldn't die with proper treatment since the health system can't handle that many COVID-patients.

So millions should be completely incomeless for for a month?

You actually think red state citizens would follow lock downs? answer: they wont and the virus will continue to spread despite a national lockdown.

It works in other countries, so why can't we do the same? .

Other countries have more of a social welfare system than we do. We should have better social welfare but we do not.

[jamestroll]

And there wont be a national lock down because Biden is not in office until January 20th. And by that time there will be vaccine distribution to the most vulnerable populations. So it would end up being needless.

[jamestroll]

Examining the situation for a few weeks now, I think we need a national lockdown for 3-4 weeks. Close all nonessential stores and prohibit any in person contacts outside your own household. Additionally, enforce rigorous mask mandates in supermarkets and other essential businesses. That's not a popular stance to take, but I see no other short term solutions. The number of daily new infections must be drastically reduced, or we lose many, many, many more lives. Even people who wouldn't die with proper treatment since the health system can't handle that many COVID-patients.

I agree with the need for it, but the lockdown itself isn't a complete solution. It needs to be accompanied by a major stimulus/bailout for businesses and workers (and should really include comprehensive national healthcare), and it needs to be accompanied by a rollout of coordinated nationwide contact tracing.

The problem is it will take time to pass a stimulus. All the left wants on this site are for people to be locked down and they are all rich here so they obviously do not care if millions are evicted in January. They just want to protect their 110 year old grandmother or something.

Our national debt is at a dangerous level. Therefore, I oppose any new massive stimulus packages. Our best way forward is to keep the economy open and vaccinated vulnerable populations in December/January.

We're not going to be vaccinating significant numbers of people in under three months.

A stimulus could easily be passed... if the GOP were participating in government in good faith.

Whining about the national debt now, on this particular issue, is either massively ignorant or done in bad faith.

Does no one seem to understand that if a stimulus it not passed a lock down is not worth it? I am not poor but I can certainly see through all this talk that all of you people on these thread are privileged or do not have jobs to lose. I had to participate in position elimination discussions earlier this summer for jobs that were supposedly going to come back.

There is no stimulus right now so therefore locking down is completely irresponsible.

[jamestroll]

i do not care how many times people scream at me "stimulus should be passed" . If it is not passed I will not support any lockdowns no matter what. Even if we have 1,000,000 cases per day.

[jamestroll]

Examining the situation for a few weeks now, I think we need a national lockdown for 3-4 weeks. Close all nonessential stores and prohibit any in person contacts outside your own household. Additionally, enforce rigorous mask mandates in supermarkets and other essential businesses. That's not a popular stance to take, but I see no other short term solutions. The number of daily new infections must be drastically reduced, or we lose many, many, many more lives. Even people who wouldn't die with proper treatment since the health system can't handle that many COVID-patients.

I agree with the need for it, but the lockdown itself isn't a complete solution. It needs to be accompanied by a major stimulus/bailout for businesses and workers (and should really include comprehensive national healthcare), and it needs to be accompanied by a rollout of coordinated nationwide contact tracing.

The problem is it will take time to pass a stimulus. All the left wants on this site are for people to be locked down and they are all rich here so they obviously do not care if millions are evicted in January. They just want to protect their 110 year old grandmother or something.

Our national debt is at a dangerous level. Therefore, I oppose any new massive stimulus packages. Our best way forward is to keep the economy open and vaccinated vulnerable populations in December/January.

We're not going to be vaccinating significant numbers of people in under three months.

A stimulus could easily be passed... if the GOP were participating in government in good faith.

Whining about the national debt now, on this particular issue, is either massively ignorant or done in bad faith.

Does no one seem to understand that if a stimulus it not passed a lock down is not worth it? I am not poor but I can certainly see through all this talk that all of you people on these thread are privileged or do not have jobs to lose. I had to participate in position elimination discussions earlier this summer for jobs that were supposedly going to come back.

There is no stimulus right now so therefore locking down is completely irresponsible.

What's alternative? Letting it go, with nearly 2k deaths a day and climbing? And we still don't know the long term underlying health conditions that arose from COVID-19.

The federal debt could be fixed if both parties had enough courage to raise taxes on upper incomes to pay their fair share, close tax loopholes and drastically cut the defense budget.

You are showing your privilege.

You are obviously fine with mass unemployment and millions being evicted and having no income at all.

[jamestroll]

So essentially we will have a national lockdown with no stimulus checks and having larges amount of the country not following it and many red states refusing to comply so we will end up with the virus still spreading rapidly and even more economic damage and masses of  people unemployed.

What a great solution!!!!!

[jamestroll]

But I clearly agree tax loopholes should be closed and we should cut the defense budget massively.

Remember I am anti-military.

[jamestroll]

Examining the situation for a few weeks now, I think we need a national lockdown for 3-4 weeks. Close all nonessential stores and prohibit any in person contacts outside your own household. Additionally, enforce rigorous mask mandates in supermarkets and other essential businesses. That's not a popular stance to take, but I see no other short term solutions. The number of daily new infections must be drastically reduced, or we lose many, many, many more lives. Even people who wouldn't die with proper treatment since the health system can't handle that many COVID-patients.

I agree with the need for it, but the lockdown itself isn't a complete solution. It needs to be accompanied by a major stimulus/bailout for businesses and workers (and should really include comprehensive national healthcare), and it needs to be accompanied by a rollout of coordinated nationwide contact tracing.

The problem is it will take time to pass a stimulus. All the left wants on this site are for people to be locked down and they are all rich here so they obviously do not care if millions are evicted in January. They just want to protect their 110 year old grandmother or something.

Our national debt is at a dangerous level. Therefore, I oppose any new massive stimulus packages. Our best way forward is to keep the economy open and vaccinated vulnerable populations in December/January.

We're not going to be vaccinating significant numbers of people in under three months.

A stimulus could easily be passed... if the GOP were participating in government in good faith.

Whining about the national debt now, on this particular issue, is either massively ignorant or done in bad faith.

Does no one seem to understand that if a stimulus it not passed a lock down is not worth it? I am not poor but I can certainly see through all this talk that all of you people on these thread are privileged or do not have jobs to lose. I had to participate in position elimination discussions earlier this summer for jobs that were supposedly going to come back.

There is no stimulus right now so therefore locking down is completely irresponsible.

What's alternative? Letting it go, with nearly 2k deaths a day and climbing? And we still don't know the long term underlying health conditions that arose from COVID-19.

The federal debt could be fixed if both parties had enough courage to raise taxes on upper incomes to pay their fair share, close tax loopholes and drastically cut the defense budget.

You are showing your privilege.

You are obviously fine with mass unemployment and millions being evicted and having no income at all.

Again, the govt needs to pass a swift aid package. Businsses and factories should remain open has much as possible, under vigrous safety standards.

In the meantime, we need more data where most infections happen to impose specific measures. I'm sure we can get the numbers down if people just refrain from personal contacts during freetime.

Saving lives is still #1 priority of all govt action.

But its perfect fine to leave millions incomeless?

it is funny. My position on covid mitigations has not changed at all during this entire course. For much of the summer I was personally more restrictive than Democratic governors. Now I am less restrictive.

Trust me I do hold the GOP responsible for this they allowed the virus to spread in their states.

[jamestroll]

Examining the situation for a few weeks now, I think we need a national lockdown for 3-4 weeks. Close all nonessential stores and prohibit any in person contacts outside your own household. Additionally, enforce rigorous mask mandates in supermarkets and other essential businesses. That's not a popular stance to take, but I see no other short term solutions. The number of daily new infections must be drastically reduced, or we lose many, many, many more lives. Even people who wouldn't die with proper treatment since the health system can't handle that many COVID-patients.

I agree with the need for it, but the lockdown itself isn't a complete solution. It needs to be accompanied by a major stimulus/bailout for businesses and workers (and should really include comprehensive national healthcare), and it needs to be accompanied by a rollout of coordinated nationwide contact tracing.

The problem is it will take time to pass a stimulus. All the left wants on this site are for people to be locked down and they are all rich here so they obviously do not care if millions are evicted in January. They just want to protect their 110 year old grandmother or something.

Our national debt is at a dangerous level. Therefore, I oppose any new massive stimulus packages. Our best way forward is to keep the economy open and vaccinated vulnerable populations in December/January.

We're not going to be vaccinating significant numbers of people in under three months.

A stimulus could easily be passed... if the GOP were participating in government in good faith.

Whining about the national debt now, on this particular issue, is either massively ignorant or done in bad faith.

Does no one seem to understand that if a stimulus it not passed a lock down is not worth it? I am not poor but I can certainly see through all this talk that all of you people on these thread are privileged or do not have jobs to lose. I had to participate in position elimination discussions earlier this summer for jobs that were supposedly going to come back.

There is no stimulus right now so therefore locking down is completely irresponsible.

What's alternative? Letting it go, with nearly 2k deaths a day and climbing? And we still don't know the long term underlying health conditions that arose from COVID-19.

The federal debt could be fixed if both parties had enough courage to raise taxes on upper incomes to pay their fair share, close tax loopholes and drastically cut the defense budget.

You are showing your privilege.

You are obviously fine with mass unemployment and millions being evicted and having no income at all.

Again, the govt needs to pass a swift aid package. Businsses and factories should remain open has much as possible, under vigrous safety standards.

In the meantime, we need more data where most infections happen to impose specific measures. I'm sure we can get the numbers down if people just refrain from personal contacts during freetime.

Saving lives is still #1 priority of all govt action.

But its perfect fine to leave millions incomeless?

it is funny. My position on covid mitigations has not changed at all during this entire course. For much of the summer I was personally more restrictive than Democratic governors. Now I am less restrictive.

Trust me I do hold the GOP responsible for this they allowed the virus to spread in their states.

Govt aid wouldn't leave them without income.

Sure, it's a choice between the bad and the worse, but people are dying from thid virus by the thousands. It's 2-3 Nine-Elevens every week.

The economic cost will also be higher in the long term if we just do nothing. Millions of people will have long term health issues, even if they survive COVID-19 without life danger.

There is no stimulus right now... if you were the governor would you honestly just let people go without income for many months?

[jamestroll]

I see five posts of mine were reported.

I believe no action should be taken on those posts. I just hold a position that differs from most people on this forum.

And it is not a fringe belief to be anti-lock down and express concern of our national debt.

[jamestroll]

I foolishly supported lockdowns early on because I wanted the pandemic curtailed so we could get back to a strong economy. I foolishly believed that the government would make rationale plans for them to open back up.

In no way am I like the rural GOP on this pandemic.

1) I have always strongly wanted strong mask mandates. Including potential jail time for people who refuse to wear masks.

2) I was not supportive of Virginia's entire phase three. I personally thought allowing gatherings of 250 people was far to much.

3) No conventions! Bar tables should not have been allowed. Restaurant seating with distance is different. But closing down bars and restaurants just puts gatherings in private homes where the virus will still spread.

If anything I would have been far more restrictive than most governors, including Democrats, were in the summer. My positions haven't changed but theirs have.

I had the virus. I got through it. We can not live in fear.

[jamestroll]

I had the virus. I got through it. We can not live in fear.

Nope. I ultimately want Democrats to do well. A good part of why I am opposed to lockdowns is because they are toxic for the Democratic brand.

It is the same reason why I opposed riots. Trust me I wanted to get violent too over blm but I ultimately want Democrats to do well so I opposed riots.

[jamestroll]

I will just watch and let you all see how the economy does in a few weeks.
This won’t fix itself, but if you want to believe that, well go ahead by all means.

Also if it makes you feel better, it appears that those who personally have had a relative die from Covid were more likely to vote for Biden than Trump compared to the general populace. Part of that can be attributed to the geographic diaspora of deaths, but also it would seem that being anti-lockdown has been the cemented GOP position.

lol its very hard for me to change my mind about anything. I have been holding the same view points for months.

I am tired of arguing with the right about masks.

[jamestroll]

If I were in charge there wouldn't have been bars open all night long.. or allowing gatherings of 250 people.. and anti-maskers roaming the streets.

But now I will advocate to protect these peoples incomes: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/business/economy/women-jobs-economy-recession.html

[jamestroll]

I had the virus. I got through it. We can not live in fear.

So because YOU had it and got through it you think everyone else will?

I'm in the middle on all of this and genuinely see both sides. But this is just an extremely selfish view. You do realize millions of people have not fully recovered and still have nasty, often severe side effects, right? They may never fully recover.

It's not all about you.

I am advocating for people's incomes who will be permanently lost.

It is not my problem that Republicans refuse to wear masks.

I am happy with the way GOP Governors are handling the situation now but they should have instituted those same restrictions MONTHS ago.

They are responsible for the situation in this country. Not me. They are not heros now.

[jamestroll]

I had the virus. I got through it. We can not live in fear.

So because YOU had it and got through it you think everyone else will?

I'm in the middle on all of this and genuinely see both sides. But this is just an extremely selfish view. You do realize millions of people have not fully recovered and still have nasty, often severe side effects, right? They may never fully recover.

It's not all about you.

Its selfish of others to expect people to have their livelihoods destroyed.

[jamestroll]

I had the virus. I got through it. We can not live in fear.

Just wait until he gets it again and realizes that there's no acquired immunity to it and that reinfections are typically worse than the first cases.

its rare to get covid twice.

Too bad that I am a mask nazi and am HIGHLY cautious so the chances of me getting it is very unlikely.

[jamestroll]

I had the virus. I got through it. We can not live in fear.

So because YOU had it and got through it you think everyone else will?

I'm in the middle on all of this and genuinely see both sides. But this is just an extremely selfish view. You do realize millions of people have not fully recovered and still have nasty, often severe side effects, right? They may never fully recover.

It's not all about you.

Its selfish of others to expect people to have their livelihoods destroyed.

Here I thought that dying and having people's loved ones die was the ultimate way to destroy one's "livelihood," but hey, you know best.

I lost both parents last year (non covid obviously) which likely influenced my initial decision to support lockdowns and foolishly believed the government would open up responsibly. Which they did not.

In the summer some blue avatars criticized me for being too restrictive on economic activity. lmao

[jamestroll]

I do have legit breathing difficulties when wearing a mask.. I even wear a mask when running or working out in the gym. And no, I will not feel bad for working out in the gym.  The chances of covid reinfection are possible.. and I will not be the one to spread it to others.

[jamestroll]

I feel like the main problem to tackling covid in the US is that our political debate has come to so completely revolve around Trump during his time in office that many people on the left felt reflexively obligated to oppose every position that he took on every issue. 

It obviously didn't help that the "positions" he was taking on covid were so obviously callous, ignorant, and often loony.  So it became impossible for progressives to advocate for a more holistic approach to the crisis in a thoughtful way without getting tarnished through association with Trump's stink.

I agree.

Do you think my positions.. which I have held for months.. are irrational? I was very uneasy with Northam allowing gatherings of  250 people in doors back in the summer....

[jamestroll]

Okay, Pritzker's recent mitigations are more restrictive than I would like but they aren't unreasonable. So I will hold off in supporting impeaching him for now.

[jamestroll]

In no way are my views on lockdowns unreasonable. Especially when I support capacity limits in retail stores.

You all here just want lockdowns because yall are rich and privileged and this is a slippery slope of locking down every winter because of flu season.

[jamestroll]

But anyway I have come to conclusion that I am absolutely 100% right on this and this is a situation in which a mitigated and moderate position has to be taken.

And arguing with others over it and losing my emotions is not worth it because none of these measures are up to me. They are the prerogatives of individual governors and local officials.

I am happy that Governor Northam has essentially tightened restrictions to how I want them and Virginia already has a [relatively] low rate of infection spread so the state will continue to be manageable.