Virginia megathread

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

This is one of those "I'm not saying a darned thing until it's confirmed" type of situations.

It's beyond confirmed now. Too bad Gillespie's people didn't find this, then we wouldn't have this pathetic disgrace as our governor.

Four things are, I think, obvious to everyone here:

1) Ralph Northam needs to resign immediately

2) God really likes screwing with Ed Gillespie

3) You [SirWoodbury] couldn't care less whether Northam is a racist and are only excited about this because Northam is a Democrat and you (wrongly, I suspect) believe Democrats are going to defend Northam

4) You [SirWoodbury] criticizing anyone else's racist behavior is basically the pot calling the kettle black,

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Remember when our good friends on the left were calling Ed Gillespie racist? Good times

Remember when more blue avatars defended Northam's klan photo than red avatars?  Good times.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Any chance that VA Republicans attempt to sway him toward switching parties again? It might be his only chance at leverage given that the Democratic consensus points toward demanding his resignation.

He’d certainly win over SirWoodbury if he did that.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Jesus, how sure are we this is real?

Pretty darn sure. Northam admitted he's in the picture, but hasn't said whether he's the Klansman or the guy in blackface.

Some people knew of this picture before today:

https://twitter.com/dbongino/status/1091517061128441857

To be fair, Bongino has the credibility of a drunken Sean Spicer

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I wanted to see the moonwalk.

Same. For a split second, I thought we were going to get it lol.

We would've if his wife wasn't there

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

They’d still be demanding that he resign (and I certainly would), you guys don’t seem to understand that the condemnation of Northam is coming from a genuine place in contrast to the Republican condemnations of Steve King whose racism was apparently fine by the GOP until he used the term “white supremicist.”  Just because the Republican party happily gives Trump a free pass on being a racist, misogynistic bigot who pals around with anti-Semites like Steve Bannon doesn’t mean that no one on the Democratic side talks like a preacher b/c they go to church every Sunday with respect to these sorts of issues.  All due respect, but this thread honestly reads like OP twisting himself in knots and grasping at straws to find some sort of “Democrats are the real hypocrites here” angle.  And speaking of hypocrisy, where was the Virginia Republican Party’s concern about racism when Corey Stewart was nominated for Senate last year?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

OUR GOVERNOR IS A KLANSMAN!

I take it that you are saying this like you are excited, proud and acceptable of it.
Your kind-of-guy, right?

Of course not. I think he should resign.

Because he is a Democrat

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

They’d still be demanding that he resign (and I certainly would), you guys don’t seem to understand that the condemnation of Northam is coming from a genuine place in contrast to the Republican condemnations of Steve King whose racism was apparently fine by the GOP until he used the term “white supremicist.”  Just because the Republican party happily gives Trump a free pass on being a racist, misogynistic bigot who pals around with anti-Semites like Steve Bannon doesn’t mean that no one on the Democratic side talks like a preacher b/c they go to church every Sunday with respect to these sorts of issues.  All due respect, but this thread honestly reads like OP twisting himself in knots and grasping at straws to find some sort of “Democrats are the real hypocrites here” angle.  And speaking of hypocrisy, where was the Virginia Republican Party’s concern about racism when Corey Stewart was nominated for Senate last year?

Would you condemn Joe Biden for his offensive comments on segregation back in his 30's?

1) Link?

2) How is it that you somehow managed to come out of this looking like the biggest hypocrite on Atlas?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Looking increasingly likely that Northam was not in the photo and idiot partisans jumped to conclusions again. The blackface was done by a friend with the same pair of pants as are in a different photo. This friend is shorter than Northam. As Klan LARPer is shorter than cool pants friend in blackface, this proves NORTHAM is INNOCENT!

Citation needed. I'm serious. How is it becoming increasingly likely? If so, obviously this changes everything, but I have a hard time believing that after his near admission to the matter the day before he declined resigning.

https://twitter.com/Valnofux/status/1091913317961080832?s=19

So you’re saying A) Northam was the one in the Klan robe or B) He didn’t have the same pants on in both pictures.  How does that suggest he wasn’t in the picture?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Looking increasingly likely that Northam was not in the photo and idiot partisans jumped to conclusions again. The blackface was done by a friend with the same pair of pants as are in a different photo. This friend is shorter than Northam. As Klan LARPer is shorter than cool pants friend in blackface, this proves NORTHAM is INNOCENT!

Citation needed. I'm serious. How is it becoming increasingly likely? If so, obviously this changes everything, but I have a hard time believing that after his near admission to the matter the day before he declined resigning.

https://twitter.com/Valnofux/status/1091913317961080832?s=19

So you’re saying A) Northam was the one in the Klan robe or B) He didn’t have the same pants on in both pictures.  How does that suggest he wasn’t in the picture?

Read my first post again. Klan LARPer is SHORTER than man with same pants in both photos! Northam is taller. Daddy Ralph has been vindicated.

Because no two people could possibly own the same kind of pants

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

They’d still be demanding that he resign (and I certainly would), you guys don’t seem to understand that the condemnation of Northam is coming from a genuine place in contrast to the Republican condemnations of Steve King whose racism was apparently fine by the GOP until he used the term “white supremicist.”  Just because the Republican party happily gives Trump a free pass on being a racist, misogynistic bigot who pals around with anti-Semites like Steve Bannon doesn’t mean that no one on the Democratic side talks like a preacher b/c they go to church every Sunday with respect to these sorts of issues.  All due respect, but this thread honestly reads like OP twisting himself in knots and grasping at straws to find some sort of “Democrats are the real hypocrites here” angle.  And speaking of hypocrisy, where was the Virginia Republican Party’s concern about racism when Corey Stewart was nominated for Senate last year?

Would you condemn Joe Biden for his offensive comments on segregation back in his 30's?

1) Link?

2) How is it that you somehow managed to come out of this looking like the biggest hypocrite on Atlas?

1) https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/joe-biden-embraced-segregation-in-1975-claiming-it-was-a-matter-of-black-pride
2) I am not responding to slander.

1) I think what Biden said was dumb, gross, out-of-touch and certainly fair game for people to attack him for, but unless I missed something when I skimmed the article, I also wouldn’t put the comments about busing in that article in the same category as what Northam did.  Northam’s actions were far worse.  I didn't see a quote where Biden specifically mentions segregation, but maybe you can identify the specific quote you're referring to.

2) You’re thinking of libel.  Slander refers to a false spoken statement.  

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

No way Fairfax resigns, if you think Franken going caused a firestorm imagine Fairfax  going over a clear RW smear. At some point Dems have to draw a line.

1) Franken wasn’t smeared, he sexually assaulted multiple women and proved unfit for elected office.  

2) The allegations against Fairfax don’t seem very credible and we’ve already seen Republicans try to use false allegations of this sort (against Richard Blumenthal and Gil Cisneros) as a political weapon.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I notice that not one on individual on here (with one or two exceptions), has actually ventured to give a faithful response to Fuzzy Bear's initial question. It should be blatantly obvious that Democrats would not be calling for Northam to resign if his replacement were to be a Republican. A big part of why Franken was forced out was because Democrats knew that he would have a Democratic replacement, appointed by a Democratic Governor. The same applies here-if Northam goes, he will be replaced with another Democrat.

Translation: “Anyone who doesn’t answer how I want them must be lying.  They can’t possibly have a different opinion than me in good faith.”

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

As if Democrats haven't done the same...

They have not.

Need I remind you of the Kavanaugh hearings?

The difference is that Dr. Ford's attempted rape allegations were extremely credible and more likely than not true, as were a second woman's (Deborah Ramirez was her name IIRC) sexual assault allegations against Kavanaugh.  There's a big difference between saying a would-be rapist facing extremely credible allegations of both attempted rape and sexual assault does not belong on the Supreme Court and making up false allegations to try to smear a political opponent.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

As if Democrats haven't done the same...

They have not.

Need I remind you of the Kavanaugh hearings?

The difference is that Dr. Ford's attempted rape allegations were extremely credible and more likely than not true, as were a second woman's (Deborah Ramirez was her name IIRC) sexual assault allegations against Kavanaugh.  There's a big difference between saying a would-be rapist facing extremely credible allegations of both attempted rape and sexual assault does not belong on the Supreme Court and making up false allegations to try to smear a political opponent.

Many of Dr. Ford's allegations were unfounded or were discredited, to say nothing of the holes in the allegations made by both Deborah Ramirez and Julie Swetnick, especially Swetnick.

As if Democrats haven't done the same...

They have not.

Need I remind you of the Kavanaugh hearings?

Well founded allegations versus non credible allegations art related to Party politics. You really are a hack.

My views over the Kavanaugh hearings have changed over the past few months. While I still think that Trump should have pulled his nomination and put forth Kethledge or Hardiman in Kavanaugh's place, I also believe that there was a serious rush to judgment in the matter.

Dr. Ford and Deborah Ramirez’s allegations were both extremely credible and in no way discredited.  If you think otherwise, please post specific, non-op-ed evidence to support your claims from credible sources.  The Swatnick stuff was likely a false allegation, but no one took her claims that seriously for more than like half-a-day and they’re also irrelevant given that I didn’t even bring them up.  Just b/c C is not true, doesn’t mean A or B aren’t true.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

As if Democrats haven't done the same...

They have not.

Need I remind you of the Kavanaugh hearings?

The difference is that Dr. Ford's attempted rape allegations were extremely credible and more likely than not true, as were a second woman's (Deborah Ramirez was her name IIRC) sexual assault allegations against Kavanaugh.  There's a big difference between saying a would-be rapist facing extremely credible allegations of both attempted rape and sexual assault does not belong on the Supreme Court and making up false allegations to try to smear a political opponent.

Many of Dr. Ford's allegations were unfounded or were discredited, to say nothing of the holes in the allegations made by both Deborah Ramirez and Julie Swetnick, especially Swetnick.

As if Democrats haven't done the same...

They have not.

Need I remind you of the Kavanaugh hearings?

Well founded allegations versus non credible allegations art related to Party politics. You really are a hack.

My views over the Kavanaugh hearings have changed over the past few months. While I still think that Trump should have pulled his nomination and put forth Kethledge or Hardiman in Kavanaugh's place, I also believe that there was a serious rush to judgment in the matter.

Dr. Ford and Deborah Ramirez’s allegations were both extremely credible and in no way discredited.  If you think otherwise, please post specific, non-op-ed evidence to support your claims from credible sources.  The Swatnick stuff was likely a false allegation, but no one took her claims that seriously for more than like half-a-day and they’re also irrelevant given that I didn’t even bring them up.  Just b/c C is not true, doesn’t mean A or B aren’t true.

I would refer you to the memo written by the prosecutor who questioned Dr. Ford: https://static.politico.com/28/7f/80157df74b96bb352b10f8b7aa66/09-30-18-mitchell-memo-ford-allegations.pdf.

You mean the one appointed by Senate Republicans to question Dr. Ford for them?  Yeah, that’s not exactly the most objective source nor did you cite anything specific.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/WVUCavalier/status/1092246798436102146

All the knives are coming out.

Even if this does turn out to be true, I called people that in middle school and never would’ve even considered the possibility it could mean anything other than “loser.”  I’d never use the word today now that I know how hurtful it is to members of the LGBT community, but I don’t think using the word in the early to mid 2000s automatically makes someone a homophobe.  Granted, I’m a cisgendered heterosexual whose prejudice against transgender folks was something that took a good eight years to truly overcome, but that’s my perspective.  Take that for what it’s worth.  

Regardless, this certainly isn’t even remotely as bad as what Northam or Fairfax [setting aside the credibility questions here] and the idea that Herring should step down over it is silly.  Also this sounds like a random some dude, not really sure why I should take him at his word.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/WVUCavalier/status/1092246798436102146

All the knives are coming out.

Even if this does turn out to be true, I called people that in middle school and never would’ve even considered the possibility it could mean anything other than “loser.”  I’d never use the word today now that I know how hurtful it is to members of the LGBT community, but I don’t think using the word in the early to mid 2000s automatically makes someone a homophobe.  Granted, I’m a cisgendered heterosexual whose prejudice against transgender folks was something that took a good eight years to truly overcome, but that’s my perspective.  Take that for what it’s worth.  

Regardless, this certainly isn’t even remotely as bad as what Northam or Fairfax [setting aside the credibility questions here] and the idea that Herring should step down over it is silly.  Also this sounds like a random some dude, not really sure why I should take him at his word.

I thought the exact same thing about using the term in Middle School. In the early 80s it was ubiquitous. And usually it was a generic designation of being a loser, weird, a******, whatever. Still hateful and would never repeat it today, same as you.

But that said, Mark Herring was hardly in Middle School. He was a candidate for State Attorney General.

He was actually a member of the Loudon County Board of Supervisors at the time, but point taken.  Even so, I don’t think this is bad enough *if true* [which is far from certain] to warrant more than an apology.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/WVUCavalier/status/1092246798436102146

All the knives are coming out.

Even if this does turn out to be true, I called people that in middle school and never would’ve even considered the possibility it could mean anything other than “loser.”  I’d never use the word today now that I know how hurtful it is to members of the LGBT community, but I don’t think using the word in the early to mid 2000s automatically makes someone a homophobe.  Granted, I’m a cisgendered heterosexual whose prejudice against transgender folks was something that took a good eight years to truly overcome, but that’s my perspective.  Take that for what it’s worth.  

Regardless, this certainly isn’t even remotely as bad as what Northam or Fairfax [setting aside the credibility questions here] and the idea that Herring should step down over it is silly.  Also this sounds like a random some dude, not really sure why I should take him at his word.

I thought the exact same thing about using the term in Middle School. In the early 80s it was ubiquitous. And usually it was a generic designation of being a loser, weird, a******, whatever. Still hateful and would never repeat it today, same as you.

But that said, Mark Herring was hardly in Middle School. He was a candidate for State Attorney General.

He was actually a member of the Loudon County Board of Supervisors at the time, but point taken.  Even so, I don’t think this is bad enough *if true* [which is far from certain] to warrant more than an apology.

Concur, IF it is also with a suitable (and frankly easy) explanation for how his views have changed during the intervening 15 years.

Well, that goes without saying.  But this is an easy fix and not something he needs to resign over in and of itself.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I'm usually hesitant to trot out this and similar lines, but Fairfax is very, very much "reacting like someone who's guilty would".

Yeah.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

In 2003? That just made him a moderate Democrat.

In my conservative Christian high school in the late 90s we knew enough not to slur gays with that word.

I'm being facetious in excusing Herring above, but only partly. In the late '90s and early '00s, people knew well it was a slur, but it was also socially acceptable to use it among friends (i.e., you don't think anyone around you is gay) without worrying that you looked like a caveman, and I bet a lot of people you knew in high school used it then. It's not socially acceptable any more, but some people were late to get the memo.

Look at what Joy Reid was saying 10 years ago...

As a gay man, I've seen the country evolve hugely on gay rights in 20 years and social acceptability of homophobia, so if people disown past homophobia and get with the program with word and deed, I'll excuse it. Yes, this goes for conservatives, too.

Speaking as a Jewish-American, I’ve found that a lot of things that are obvious anti-Semitic dog whistles to me (“Hollywood liberal” and “New York values”) don’t always register as such to non-Jews until it is pointed out and explained to them, not b/c the term in question wasn’t anti-Semitic, but b/c the first people who notice these things tend to be bigots and members of the targeted minority group.  

I can only speak as a cisgendered heterosexual, but I used the word in middle school as essentially a meaner version of loser.  Granted, Herring was an adult lawyer when he allegedly used the term and I was a kid, but I didn’t learn it was an anti-gay slur until like 2006-ish (I remember the year b/c it was shortly Webb was declared the winner in Virginia which flipped the Senate, I think I read something about him having possibly used the term).  

It’s not always easy to keep up with the changes in what is and isn’t offensive language.  I only found out a couple months ago that the word “retarded” is now considered a slur and I still don’t know what word I am supposed to use instead.  I never meant anything by it, the word had simply always been what people with that IQ level were called as far as I knew.  My only point is simply that this stuff isn’t always as obviously cut-and-dry to everyone as it may seem to a member of the targeted minority group.  

If Herring used the term at all [which remains far from certain], I think it’s possible that he simply said it in anger as a generic insult rather than as a slur against gays and if that’s how he meant it, I don’t think this is really even remotely in the same category as what Northam did (to say nothing of Fairfax, who is just looking worse and worse by the day).  Even if he meant it as a slur at the time and has grown as a person since, I agree that it’d be a forgivable mistake.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/kasie/status/1093187988140580864

I hope there is a recording of this. Fairfax has got to go.

Yes, as do Donald Trump and Brett Kavanaugh.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

At least Herring has a proper apology. I don't think you can handle it much better than this so if anyone might survive it'll be him.

This.  That said, I’m gonna have to pray on whether I think Herring should resign.  My instinct is no given how he’s handling things and that the VA black caucus supports him, but I worry that this is the partisan hack in me talking.  This is going to take some thought/soul-searching; I am of two minds atm.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Unless one of the two sides presents some kind of evidence I don't see how anyone can claim to know what the truth is.

Everything Fairfax has done suggests he did what he’s been accused of.  Fairfax needs to go even if it means Republicans pick up all three statewide offices.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Unless one of the two sides presents some kind of evidence I don't see how anyone can claim to know what the truth is.

Everything Fairfax has done suggests he did what he’s been accused of.  Fairfax needs to go even if it means Republicans pick up all three statewide offices.

Except they won't. Herring isn't resigning. But Fairfax absolutely needs to go.

Sure, but my point is priority number one is getting rid of Fairfax.