Israel-Gaza war

[pppolitics]

I thought that he was going to say "Not US problem. Israel is not the 51st state."

Oh wait, Republicans are hypocrites.

[pppolitics]

Is anyone else surprised that Israel has an alliance with the United States?

Israel has far more in common with Russia than the US.

[pppolitics]

Hopefully we stay the hell out and don't give Israel a cent.

Hopefully we give Israel , air support

Israel isn't asking for any military support. This isn't Ukraine. Hamas is a massively outgunned, incredibly vicious enemy with no chance of victory but every chance of causing immense suffering. It's closer to 9/11 than Pearl Harbor or anything else, in that the attacked country will now take the gloves off.

The US is needed for exactly two things - regular Iron Dome replenishment, which is already assumed, and a firm grip on its UN veto pen. But this isn't their war and Israel doesn't want it to be.

The US has given Israel an abundance of military support over the years, including the F-35s, free of charge.

[pppolitics]

Hopefully we stay the hell out and don't give Israel a cent.

Hopefully we give Israel , air support

Israel isn't asking for any military support. This isn't Ukraine. Hamas is a massively outgunned, incredibly vicious enemy with no chance of victory but every chance of causing immense suffering. It's closer to 9/11 than Pearl Harbor or anything else, in that the attacked country will now take the gloves off.

The US is needed for exactly two things - regular Iron Dome replenishment, which is already assumed, and a firm grip on its UN veto pen. But this isn't their war and Israel doesn't want it to be.

The US has given Israel an abundance of military support over the years, including the F-35s, free of charge.

Yes, they are a great beta tester for US materiel. This is not nearly as one-sided a relationship as some make it out to be.

Ukraine would love to beta test F-35s and all of the US new weapons too.

[pppolitics]

Terrible, terrible, terrible. Hundreds of people have already died, and I fear the count will continue to skyrocket. And this was completely out of the blue, not like the Ukraine war at all. Hopefully it doesn't spill over into other countries.

When people are oppressed and have their land stolen from them, they tend to lash out.

This was entirely predictable.

[pppolitics]

Terrible, terrible, terrible. Hundreds of people have already died, and I fear the count will continue to skyrocket. And this was completely out of the blue, not like the Ukraine war at all. Hopefully it doesn't spill over into other countries.

When people are oppressed and have their land stolen from them, they tend to lash out.

This was entirely predictable.

Are you aware that Hamas-ruled Gaza exists specifically because in 2005 Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza, including forcing Israeli settlers out at gunpoint, under the banner of 'land for peace'?

Israel has no right to Gaza in the first place.

[pppolitics]

Terrible, terrible, terrible. Hundreds of people have already died, and I fear the count will continue to skyrocket. And this was completely out of the blue, not like the Ukraine war at all. Hopefully it doesn't spill over into other countries.

When people are oppressed and have their land stolen from them, they tend to lash out.

This was entirely predictable.

Then the oppressors, who now have an excuse, lash back even harder and the oppressed usually end up in a worse place. People have to be cleverer than that.

What else could the oppressed do other than lash out?

There isn't much of a choice.

[pppolitics]

Actions having consequences is a description, not a prescription.

What actions did the Israeli civilians take?

...do you mean other than illegally occupying Palestinian land?

[pppolitics]

Is anyone else surprised that Israel is allied with the US instead of Russia?

[pppolitics]

Israel is clearly the more sympathetic side in this conflict. Supporting the rights of the Palestinian people shouldn't mean supporting genocidal terrorists.

The Palestinian people have no choice but to side with "genocidal terrorists" because they are powerless against their Israeli oppressors.

[pppolitics]

Actions having consequences is a description, not a prescription.

What actions did the Israeli civilians take?

...do you mean other than illegally occupying Palestinian land?

I'm sure that boy who was killed by Hamas (not going into details) deserved to have his life cut short because you've decided his elders were wrong in wanting to live in the city they chose. It's a lot easier to condemn the indiscriminate massacre of civilians when you don't irrationally hate the victims, that's what I'm learning about this thread.

I would be more sympathetic with the Israelis had Israel withdrawn from illegally occupied territories.

[pppolitics]

Worst case scenario for this war is that the larger Arab superpowers get involved. If it’s mostly Israel vs. Hamas Israel would win easily.

Let Israel and Iran destroy each other.

It's a win-win: two authoritarian states destroy one another.

[pppolitics]

Worst case scenario for this war is that the larger Arab superpowers get involved. If it’s mostly Israel vs. Hamas Israel would win easily.

We should threaten to get involved on behalf of Israel if thats the case.

We don't need to get involved.

Let Israel and Iran destroy each other.

It's a win-win: two authoritarian states destroy one another.

[pppolitics]

Worst case scenario for this war is that the larger Arab superpowers get involved. If it’s mostly Israel vs. Hamas Israel would win easily.

Let Israel and Iran destroy each other.

It's a win-win: two authoritarian states destroy one another.

What a ghoulish thing to wish for. The states will not disappear without hundreds of thousands, if not (much more likely) millions, of people dying.

The US need not get involved esp. there is no "good" side to align with.

[pppolitics]

Worst case scenario for this war is that the larger Arab superpowers get involved. If it’s mostly Israel vs. Hamas Israel would win easily.

Let Israel and Iran destroy each other.

It's a win-win: two authoritarian states destroy one another.

Hell no, if Iran declares war on Israel then we should provide Israel with air support. Let's see how Iran would like to deal with the greatest military superpower the world has ever seen and especially the greatest air power the world has ever seen.

We must not let Israel fall under any circumstance. The history over the past many centuries show that when there is no Jewish country existing , it leads to horrible oppression and we cannot stand by and let that ever happen again. The fact is Jews need a refuge from potential oppression and that is why a Jewish nation must exist

What does the US get in return?

We are not standing up for democratic values since Israel is not a democracy.

[pppolitics]

Worst case scenario for this war is that the larger Arab superpowers get involved. If it’s mostly Israel vs. Hamas Israel would win easily.

Let Israel and Iran destroy each other.

It's a win-win: two authoritarian states destroy one another.

Hell no, if Iran declares war on Israel then we should provide Israel with air support. Let's see how Iran would like to deal with the greatest military superpower the world has ever seen and especially the greatest air power the world has ever seen.

We must not let Israel fall under any circumstance. The history over the past many centuries show that when there is no Jewish country existing , it leads to horrible oppression and we cannot stand by and let that ever happen again. The fact is Jews need a refuge from potential oppression and that is why a Jewish nation must exist

We should provide as much help to Israel as they were willing to give to Ukraine.

Agree.

[pppolitics]

Worst case scenario for this war is that the larger Arab superpowers get involved. If it’s mostly Israel vs. Hamas Israel would win easily.

Let Israel and Iran destroy each other.

It's a win-win: two authoritarian states destroy one another.

Hell no, if Iran declares war on Israel then we should provide Israel with air support. Let's see how Iran would like to deal with the greatest military superpower the world has ever seen and especially the greatest air power the world has ever seen.

We must not let Israel fall under any circumstance. The history over the past many centuries show that when there is no Jewish country existing , it leads to horrible oppression and we cannot stand by and let that ever happen again. The fact is Jews need a refuge from potential oppression and that is why a Jewish nation must exist

We should provide as much help to Israel as they were willing to give to Ukraine.

This is a lol worthy comparison . Yes Israel should support Ukraine more but we should not let a situation arise where Jews have no potential refuge from oppression like it existed for centuries.

If forced to choose , I would say its more important from a Humanitarian perspective for Israel to be saved because there are many nations that could be a potential refuge for Ukrainians as there are many Christian Countries on the planet while there is only one Jewish nation.

What does the US get in return?

We are not standing up for democratic values since Israel is not a democracy.

[pppolitics]

Worst case scenario for this war is that the larger Arab superpowers get involved. If it’s mostly Israel vs. Hamas Israel would win easily.

Let Israel and Iran destroy each other.

It's a win-win: two authoritarian states destroy one another.

Hell no, if Iran declares war on Israel then we should provide Israel with air support. Let's see how Iran would like to deal with the greatest military superpower the world has ever seen and especially the greatest air power the world has ever seen.

We must not let Israel fall under any circumstance. The history over the past many centuries show that when there is no Jewish country existing , it leads to horrible oppression and we cannot stand by and let that ever happen again. The fact is Jews need a refuge from potential oppression and that is why a Jewish nation must exist

We should provide as much help to Israel as they were willing to give to Ukraine.

This is a lol worthy comparison . Yes Israel should support Ukraine more but we should not let a situation arise where Jews have no potential refuge from oppression like it existed for centuries.

If forced to choose , I would say its more important from a Humanitarian perspective for Israel to be saved because there are many nations that could be a potential refuge for Ukrainians as there are many Christian Countries on the planet while there is only one Jewish nation.

What does the US get in return?

We are not standing up for democratic values since Israel is not a democracy.

Ensuring a Jewish Nation exists. Something are more important than a democracy and given the oppression Jews have faced over the centuries, them having a nation is more important than Israel being a democracy.

Why is ensuring the survival of an authoritarian "Jewish Nation" in the US interest?

[pppolitics]

Worst case scenario for this war is that the larger Arab superpowers get involved. If it’s mostly Israel vs. Hamas Israel would win easily.

Let Israel and Iran destroy each other.

It's a win-win: two authoritarian states destroy one another.

Hell no, if Iran declares war on Israel then we should provide Israel with air support. Let's see how Iran would like to deal with the greatest military superpower the world has ever seen and especially the greatest air power the world has ever seen.

We must not let Israel fall under any circumstance. The history over the past many centuries show that when there is no Jewish country existing , it leads to horrible oppression and we cannot stand by and let that ever happen again. The fact is Jews need a refuge from potential oppression and that is why a Jewish nation must exist

We should provide as much help to Israel as they were willing to give to Ukraine.

This is a lol worthy comparison . Yes Israel should support Ukraine more but we should not let a situation arise where Jews have no potential refuge from oppression like it existed for centuries.

If forced to choose , I would say its more important from a Humanitarian perspective for Israel to be saved because there are many nations that could be a potential refuge for Ukrainians as there are many Christian Countries on the planet while there is only one Jewish nation.

What does the US get in return?

We are not standing up for democratic values since Israel is not a democracy.

Ensuring a Jewish Nation exists. Something are more important than a democracy and given the oppression Jews have faced over the centuries, them having a nation is more important than Israel being a democracy.

Why is "[Jewish people] have a nation" more important than "Israel being a democracy"?

[pppolitics]

Worst case scenario for this war is that the larger Arab superpowers get involved. If it’s mostly Israel vs. Hamas Israel would win easily.

Let Israel and Iran destroy each other.

It's a win-win: two authoritarian states destroy one another.

Hell no, if Iran declares war on Israel then we should provide Israel with air support. Let's see how Iran would like to deal with the greatest military superpower the world has ever seen and especially the greatest air power the world has ever seen.

We must not let Israel fall under any circumstance. The history over the past many centuries show that when there is no Jewish country existing , it leads to horrible oppression and we cannot stand by and let that ever happen again. The fact is Jews need a refuge from potential oppression and that is why a Jewish nation must exist

We should provide as much help to Israel as they were willing to give to Ukraine.

This is a lol worthy comparison . Yes Israel should support Ukraine more but we should not let a situation arise where Jews have no potential refuge from oppression like it existed for centuries.

If forced to choose , I would say its more important from a Humanitarian perspective for Israel to be saved because there are many nations that could be a potential refuge for Ukrainians as there are many Christian Countries on the planet while there is only one Jewish nation.

What does the US get in return?

We are not standing up for democratic values since Israel is not a democracy.

Ensuring a Jewish Nation exists. Something are more important than a democracy and given the oppression Jews have faced over the centuries, them having a nation is more important than Israel being a democracy.

Why is ensuring the survival of an authoritarian "Jewish Nation" in the US interest?

Genocide is bad and Jews have a recent (and long) history of suffering this in the diaspora. Anyway, please take this to the other thread.

...and why should the US be concerned about any of this?

The US wants to support democracies around the world, but Israel is not a democracy.

[pppolitics]

Israel is not a democracy.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is a democracy only in name.

[pppolitics]

Israel is not a democracy.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is a democracy only in name.

Total lie.

How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?

[pppolitics]

Israel is not a democracy.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is a democracy only in name.

Total lie.

How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?

All Arab-Israelis can vote in Israeli elections, and all Palestinian residents of Judea and Samaria can vote in Palestinian Authority elections. The alternative would be for Israel to annex Judea and Samaria -- do you want Israel to do that?

Why don't you answer my question?

--> "How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?"

[pppolitics]

then in the same breath talk about how Hamas is the democratic choice of the people of Gaza

Who said that?

...certainly wasn't me

[pppolitics]

Israel is not a democracy.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is a democracy only in name.

Total lie.

How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?

All Arab-Israelis can vote in Israeli elections, and all Palestinian residents of Judea and Samaria can vote in Palestinian Authority elections. The alternative would be for Israel to annex Judea and Samaria -- do you want Israel to do that?

Why don't you answer my question?

--> "How many percent of Palestinians in West Bank can participate in Israel's elections?"

None who are not citizens, of course. But that's an irrelevant question, just like asking "What % of Mexicans in Mexico can vote in American elections?"

The United States is not occupying Mexico as far as I am aware.