Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[Mr. Illini]

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1497047402469109806

Kinda uncomfortable with how consistently good Rubio has been about this whole situation.

Maybe blasphemous but he’s been one of the better major US pols on foreign policy for awhile. Definitely the best Republican

[StateBoiler]

Matt Chance of CNN saying the Su-27 taken down over Kiev was Ukrainian, not Russian.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RALee85/status/1497051901107466243

Damn that sucks.
But the Russians are not in any strong form, inside Kyiv, to have anti-air capability.
Sounds strange.

During the 1st Persian Gulf War, they took an obsolete fighter aircraft, made it into a self-flying drone of sorts and had it fly through the middle of Baghdad figuring the Iraqis would hit it but every anti-aircraft battery in Baghdad would show its location.

There's been questions of "where is the Russian artillery?" It might be they're just allowing Ukrainian equipment to expose itself, then take it out.

[Illiniwek]

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1497047402469109806

Kinda uncomfortable with how consistently good Rubio has been about this whole situation.

Maybe blasphemous but he’s been one of the better major US pols on foreign policy for awhile. Definitely the best Republican

At this point I’d be fine if he was representative of the GOP as a whole.

[sting in the rafters]

https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1497066084154937345?s=20&t=d19RDI...


First trying to set up a summit when it was clear negotiations weren't going anywhere and now this comes out. What indication did Macron have that he should trust a word of what Putin says? Dude got duped.

[2016]

There is IMO only one location where Putin could launch cruise missiles and ballistic missiles and that is from the Russian War Ships in the Black Sea.

[NOVA Green]

As someone who considers myself firmly on the left and has stood against escalation and belligerence from the start on either side; f**k this warmongering imperialist Putin to hell and back.

Ukraine is not a NATO country and we should still not get directly involved in any manner whatsoever. That being said, I am all in favor of sending huge amounts of aid to Ukraine and crushing Russia's economy through sanctions. Certainly a better use of money for weapons than our bloated defense budget.

Motion seconded (Although I do not believe in the current variation of a Christian God, but perhaps more like an Irish Curse in the 400's AD, while reading and writing were saved during the final collapse of the Roman Empire).

[OSR stands with Israel]

Kick Russia off the U.N. Security Council

I realize it's practically unlikely, but god dammit, we need to hit Russia on every single front absent direct confrontation.

There was never a formal process to admit Russia into the U.N. after the USSR's demise, and the Security Council seat was granted via a decision from the UN's legal counsel with no action requested from the General Assembly. That edict could be revoked, and the U.S. could demand a vote in the General Assembly on Russia's Security Council membership. Would such a maneuver save Kyiv? No, but Moscow must be besieged on all fronts if there is any hope of rescuing Ukrainians from a Russian occupation. The worst crisis in post-war Europe demands nothing less than concerted, dramatic action aimed at Moscow's total isolation, and the time to start is now.

The UN is useless

[StateBoiler]

Watching CNN live. Matt Chance reporting from Kiev is talking on video, 7:05am in the morning there, and air raid sirens started going off in the background.

Re the UN, if you want to go lawyer mode technicalities, the charters don't mention the Russian Federation, they say the Soviet Union. It's a functional change made to the UN that's never been put in the paperwork because reforming the UN is more impossible than amending the U.S. Constitution.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

Kick Russia off the U.N. Security Council

I realize it's practically unlikely, but god dammit, we need to hit Russia on every single front absent direct confrontation.

There was never a formal process to admit Russia into the U.N. after the USSR's demise, and the Security Council seat was granted via a decision from the UN's legal counsel with no action requested from the General Assembly. That edict could be revoked, and the U.S. could demand a vote in the General Assembly on Russia's Security Council membership. Would such a maneuver save Kyiv? No, but Moscow must be besieged on all fronts if there is any hope of rescuing Ukrainians from a Russian occupation. The worst crisis in post-war Europe demands nothing less than concerted, dramatic action aimed at Moscow's total isolation, and the time to start is now.

The UN is useless

The UN needs drastic reform sure, but 'useless' is an ignorant thing to say, even if it only served as a forum for nations and people who wouldn't otherwise be talking to do so.

[AndyHogan14]

Watching CNN live. Matt Chance reporting from Kiev is talking on video, 7:05am in the morning there, and air raid sirens started going off in the background.

Re the UN, if you want to go lawyer mode technicalities, the charters don't mention the Russian Federation, they say the Soviet Union. It's a functional change made to the UN that's never been put in the paperwork because reforming the UN is more impossible than amending the U.S. Constitution.

I have had the live stream of Kyiv in the background all day and let me tell you, I was jolted up when the air raid sirens went off. As far as the UN is concerned, it's a nice idea but it is pretty much worthless when one of the five permanent members have a stake in whatever is being debated. It would be pretty hilarious to see Russia kicked from the Security Council due to a technicality though.

[NOVA Green]

The site froze for a while.
Did the Russians hack Virginia's system for a while?
RussianBear must have told the Kremlin how pro-Ukraine our small family is.

I assumed there was some major change of events and that the site overloaded.

Most likely a reverse scenario... Atlas servers were hijacked by pro-Ukranian hackers closely linked with Anonymous and briefly our server bandwidth experienced a short term hiccup, while meanwhile a key Russian base in Belarus just briefly went off-line for about 30-40 minutes. 

All good now.   

[Omega21]

Breaking News:

Keeping up with the most recent Trends, Italian imperator Mario Draghi makes claims to the following areas based on "deep historical ties"

[emailking]

FYI the site often goes down like that between 9 an 11 PM Eastern for some reason. It used to be literally every day around 9:45 PM but since the server upgrade I haven't noticed it as much.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

This individual apparently has some random ax to grind, a sock to weave, perhaps a bit too much mead (Or perhaps harder stuff) on this evening.

I've had a fair amount to drink myself this evening, so I'm happy to give as good as I get, for the next hour or so at any rate.

[lfromnj]

A thought I had at work: forget sanctions, how about a full embargo on trade with Russia?                  I know Europe won't entertain this idea in the slightest. But when it comes to the US, Russia's imports from the US are around 5% of total imports. Meanwhile the US has less than 1% of its imports come from the motherland. An American embargo on Russia would be easy for the US to weather, not so much for Russia.

The US could theoretically get by without much struggle as a whole. However our allies won't be happy depending on how it happens. Along with that Joe Biden can not handle 4 dollar + gas .

[ꙮ]

A thought I had at work: forget sanctions, how about a full embargo on trade with Russia?                  I know Europe won't entertain this idea in the slightest. But when it comes to the US, Russia's imports from the US are around 5% of total imports. Meanwhile the US has less than 1% of its imports come from the motherland. An American embargo on Russia would be easy for the US to weather, not so much for Russia.

The US could theoretically get by without much struggle as a whole. However our allies won't be happy depending on how it happens. Along with that Joe Biden can not handle 4 dollar + gas .

4 dollar+ gas would definitely be harmful for the President (not that that would matter in an ideal world), but a total embargo on Russia would wreck their economy. It's one of the only "peaceful" options that could legitimately swing a longer war in Ukraine's favor. If that were to happen then it would give Biden a victory. The gamble could pay off.



Who am I kidding, even if that happens and Russia is decisively defeated people would hate the gas prices too much.

[Blue3]

This is a great, short speech from the UN ambassador from Kenya, last night:
https://youtu.be/ZxZlaiuicYM




Meanwhile, Russian TV is playing videos of former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, praising Putin
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1496191658387517443


Just like Trump was again: https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-again-praises-putin-moments-before-russia-launches-invasion-of-ukraine-042841605.html



Another reminder, if Trump was President now, we'd probably no longer even be in NATO
https://twitter.com/UrbanAchievr/status/1496499234786451467




As for the protesters, Russia has arrested at least 1700 of them so far
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/russia-arrests-anti-war-protesters_n_6217dc4be4b0f800ce1e2516

[Aurelius]

https://mobile.twitter.com/OSINT_Ukraine/status/1497091109578706945

Turkey is going to tread very carefully around the Montreux treaty. Still worth watching.

[Aurelius]

https://mobile.twitter.com/OSINT_Ukraine/status/1497100193283686402

Ukraine has launched a ballistic missile into an airbase in Russia. 🇺🇦💪

[AndyHogan14]

Can this thread not devolve into a debate over immigration? Thanks.

[Aurelius]

This thread is about the Russia-Ukraine war, not American immigration policy.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Can this thread not devolve into a debate over immigration? Thanks.

I'd like to redouble this request.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

This is a USGD thread covering the domestic American side of this issue.
Please take any immigration debates there.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Also, a sidenote: It took us from November 7 last year to February 24 to get to 100 pages. Anyone want to wager how long it'll take us until we've reached 200?

[ꙮ]

Also, a sidenote: It took us from November 7 last year to February 24 to get to 100 pages. Anyone want to wager how long it'll take us until we've reached 200?

Sunday morning, 8:00 AM.