Why do liberals want masks and restrictions forever?

[Benjamin Frank]

This is so, so dumb.

1. People who are vaccinated are not dying from Covid.
2. The whole point of restrictions was to stop people who don't want to die from dying. This has been accomplished.
3. Everyone over the age of 12 can get a vaccine, and has had that opportunity for months.
4. People under the age of 12 aren't dying of Covid.
5. People who choose not to be vaccinated and contract Covid have made their choice. They're dumb, but it's their problem. We don't owe them anything.

Therefore
6. Lift all the restrictions. The pandemic is functionally over. The unvaccinated can face their fate alone.

Also, by 'we don't owe them anything' do you mean that they should either not be admitted into a hospital, or that, at the very least, they have to pay the full cost of their own medical treatment?

It means that we shouldn't force the unvaccinated to be safe at the expense of the vaccinated. Obviously, they should have access to medical treatment. But returning to mask mandates or (God forbid) shutdowns to keep people who choose to be unsafe safe just isn't fair to the rest of us. I'm not going to inconvenience myself for those who won't get the shot.

Why should they have access to medical treatment?

Because unlike Covid restrictions, it doesn't inconvenience me. It's literally that simple.

It doesn't? It might prevent you from getting treatment in a full hospital. Also, it costs you money.

I haven't been to a hospital since I was born and I don't mind paying the extra $25 in taxes this might cost me. But at this point, it just isn't fair to ask people who have done everything right this whole damn pandemic to make sacrifices for those who refuse to help themselves despite being given every opportunity.

So, mandate vaccines then.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

This is so, so dumb.

1. People who are vaccinated are not dying from Covid.
2. The whole point of restrictions was to stop people who don't want to die from dying. This has been accomplished.
3. Everyone over the age of 12 can get a vaccine, and has had that opportunity for months.
4. People under the age of 12 aren't dying of Covid.
5. People who choose not to be vaccinated and contract Covid have made their choice. They're dumb, but it's their problem. We don't owe them anything.

Therefore
6. Lift all the restrictions. The pandemic is functionally over. The unvaccinated can face their fate alone.

Also, by 'we don't owe them anything' do you mean that they should either not be admitted into a hospital, or that, at the very least, they have to pay the full cost of their own medical treatment?

It means that we shouldn't force the unvaccinated to be safe at the expense of the vaccinated. Obviously, they should have access to medical treatment. But returning to mask mandates or (God forbid) shutdowns to keep people who choose to be unsafe safe just isn't fair to the rest of us. I'm not going to inconvenience myself for those who won't get the shot.

Why should they have access to medical treatment?

Because unlike Covid restrictions, it doesn't inconvenience me. It's literally that simple.

It doesn't? It might prevent you from getting treatment in a full hospital. Also, it costs you money.

I haven't been to a hospital since I was born and I don't mind paying the extra $25 in taxes this might cost me. But at this point, it just isn't fair to ask people who have done everything right this whole damn pandemic to make sacrifices for those who refuse to help themselves despite being given every opportunity.

So, mandate vaccines then.

Sure. Or not. Let the unvaccinated get sick if they must. Because, again, vaccinated people just aren't dying from this and that's all that matters.

[Benjamin Frank]

This is so, so dumb.

1. People who are vaccinated are not dying from Covid.
2. The whole point of restrictions was to stop people who don't want to die from dying. This has been accomplished.
3. Everyone over the age of 12 can get a vaccine, and has had that opportunity for months.
4. People under the age of 12 aren't dying of Covid.
5. People who choose not to be vaccinated and contract Covid have made their choice. They're dumb, but it's their problem. We don't owe them anything.

Therefore
6. Lift all the restrictions. The pandemic is functionally over. The unvaccinated can face their fate alone.

Also, by 'we don't owe them anything' do you mean that they should either not be admitted into a hospital, or that, at the very least, they have to pay the full cost of their own medical treatment?

It means that we shouldn't force the unvaccinated to be safe at the expense of the vaccinated. Obviously, they should have access to medical treatment. But returning to mask mandates or (God forbid) shutdowns to keep people who choose to be unsafe safe just isn't fair to the rest of us. I'm not going to inconvenience myself for those who won't get the shot.

Why should they have access to medical treatment?

Because unlike Covid restrictions, it doesn't inconvenience me. It's literally that simple.

It doesn't? It might prevent you from getting treatment in a full hospital. Also, it costs you money.

I haven't been to a hospital since I was born and I don't mind paying the extra $25 in taxes this might cost me. But at this point, it just isn't fair to ask people who have done everything right this whole damn pandemic to make sacrifices for those who refuse to help themselves despite being given every opportunity.

So, mandate vaccines then.

Sure. Or not. Let the unvaccinated get sick if they must. Because, again, vaccinated people just aren't dying from this and that's all that matters.

fine, then don't expect treatment if you don't get vaccinated.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

This is so, so dumb.

1. People who are vaccinated are not dying from Covid.
2. The whole point of restrictions was to stop people who don't want to die from dying. This has been accomplished.
3. Everyone over the age of 12 can get a vaccine, and has had that opportunity for months.
4. People under the age of 12 aren't dying of Covid.
5. People who choose not to be vaccinated and contract Covid have made their choice. They're dumb, but it's their problem. We don't owe them anything.

Therefore
6. Lift all the restrictions. The pandemic is functionally over. The unvaccinated can face their fate alone.

Also, by 'we don't owe them anything' do you mean that they should either not be admitted into a hospital, or that, at the very least, they have to pay the full cost of their own medical treatment?

It means that we shouldn't force the unvaccinated to be safe at the expense of the vaccinated. Obviously, they should have access to medical treatment. But returning to mask mandates or (God forbid) shutdowns to keep people who choose to be unsafe safe just isn't fair to the rest of us. I'm not going to inconvenience myself for those who won't get the shot.

Why should they have access to medical treatment?

Because unlike Covid restrictions, it doesn't inconvenience me. It's literally that simple.

It doesn't? It might prevent you from getting treatment in a full hospital. Also, it costs you money.

I haven't been to a hospital since I was born and I don't mind paying the extra $25 in taxes this might cost me. But at this point, it just isn't fair to ask people who have done everything right this whole damn pandemic to make sacrifices for those who refuse to help themselves despite being given every opportunity.

So, mandate vaccines then.

Sure. Or not. Let the unvaccinated get sick if they must. Because, again, vaccinated people just aren't dying from this and that's all that matters.

fine, then don't expect treatment if you don't get vaccinated.

I got vaccinated in April because I'm not a total moron. I just don't believe in protecting the morons from themselves.

[7,052,770]

It's not liberals who are having a problem with "admitting" the vaccine is super effective...

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

It's not Liberals, we are Secularist, Trump had super spreader rallies and he caught Covid, Liberal is Old Fashioned during Cold War era, Just like it's Tories or Traditionalist for Rs

[YE]

I'm really curious. What is with this hysteria on the left? Once you're fully vaccinated, go enjoy your life.

Between Pelosi, Bowser and the derangement of some people on here, it's really getting on my nerves.

Just admit a few things:
1. The vaccine is very effective, even against Delta.
2. Getting it once helps your immune system ward off future infections.
3. It is very rare for kids to get seriously ill from it. Guess what? In an average year, a lot more kids probably die in car accidents or drown in swimming pools.

Not many want restrictions forever to begin with, as evident by the responses here and the relative unpopularity of them, so I think you're overgeneralizing a bit, which I don't fault you for doing lol.

But of the ones that do, depends on who you are talking about. I've gotten downvoted at least five or six times for being anti-mask on Reddit. Fortunately, Reddit is not real life but they're reasons are likely because they live in an overly sheltered bubble who seldom goes outside and thus don't see the unpopularity of restrictions, and in at least some cases, have been reading doomer articles about the pandemic for 18 months, and still don't believe the vaccine. There are also older boomer libs types (I have a friends who post here whose parents fit this category) who are relatively scared of getting it due to their age but whose feelings probably resemble a more generic "better safe than sorry" crowd; they are less inclined to be full doomer on the pandemic but aren't exactly trained public health experts either.

[Benjamin Frank]

In regards to the 'right' to not get vaccinated or to not wear a mask. We need to go further on this.

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1420986538469494788


This is unbelievable. It was his right to exercise his freedom to commit arson.

Just like all humans are going to die anyway, all ships are going to be scuttled anyway. It doesn't really make a difference if he sped that up by a couple years.

[Real Texan Politics]

I doubt liberals in general want them around forever besides a few suburban soccer mom #resist lib Karens on twitter.

Or those theater dudes on tiktok who sing the Frozen parodies about "vaccination day" or whatever.

[Crumpets]

[Pericles]

The unfortunate thing about the Covid pandemic is that there isn't a clear moment where it's over and life is back to normal. The challenge countries face is picking a time based on their own conditions when the balance shifts so that it is no longer worth it or morally right to impose damaging restrictions on people's lives.

[dead0man]

This is so, so dumb.

1. People who are vaccinated are not dying from Covid.
2. The whole point of restrictions was to stop people who don't want to die from dying. This has been accomplished.
3. Everyone over the age of 12 can get a vaccine, and has had that opportunity for months.
4. People under the age of 12 aren't dying of Covid.
5. People who choose not to be vaccinated and contract Covid have made their choice. They're dumb, but it's their problem. We don't owe them anything.

Therefore
6. Lift all the restrictions. The pandemic is functionally over. The unvaccinated can face their fate alone.

Also, by 'we don't owe them anything' do you mean that they should either not be admitted into a hospital, or that, at the very least, they have to pay the full cost of their own medical treatment?

It means that we shouldn't force the unvaccinated to be safe at the expense of the vaccinated. Obviously, they should have access to medical treatment. But returning to mask mandates or (God forbid) shutdowns to keep people who choose to be unsafe safe just isn't fair to the rest of us. I'm not going to inconvenience myself for those who won't get the shot.

Why should they have access to medical treatment?

should the motorcycle rider have access to medical treatment after a crash?  Smokers?  Fatties?  Rock climbers?  Should other groups of people who knowingly do things that are more likely to put them in the hospital not have access to medical treatment?  or just groups of people you don't like for political reasons?

[Benjamin Frank]

This is so, so dumb.

1. People who are vaccinated are not dying from Covid.
2. The whole point of restrictions was to stop people who don't want to die from dying. This has been accomplished.
3. Everyone over the age of 12 can get a vaccine, and has had that opportunity for months.
4. People under the age of 12 aren't dying of Covid.
5. People who choose not to be vaccinated and contract Covid have made their choice. They're dumb, but it's their problem. We don't owe them anything.

Therefore
6. Lift all the restrictions. The pandemic is functionally over. The unvaccinated can face their fate alone.

Also, by 'we don't owe them anything' do you mean that they should either not be admitted into a hospital, or that, at the very least, they have to pay the full cost of their own medical treatment?

It means that we shouldn't force the unvaccinated to be safe at the expense of the vaccinated. Obviously, they should have access to medical treatment. But returning to mask mandates or (God forbid) shutdowns to keep people who choose to be unsafe safe just isn't fair to the rest of us. I'm not going to inconvenience myself for those who won't get the shot.

Why should they have access to medical treatment?

should the motorcycle rider have access to medical treatment after a crash?  Smokers?  Fatties?  Rock climbers?  Should other groups of people who knowingly do things that are more likely to put them in the hospital not have access to medical treatment?  or just groups of people you don't like for political reasons?

I've had this discussion before. When the hospitals fill up, then you're dealing with extreme circumstances.  

Also, in general, it was meant more rhetorically: if these Covidiots don't have a problem exposing negative externalities onto other people and onto society, why should society have any obligation to treat them?

Fatties and rock climbers don't impose similar negative externalities on other people.  Rock climbers actually are far more likely doing themselves a lot more good in terms of their health than bad.  Smokers actually face laws that restrict the negative externalities they can impose on other people . The only argument that is close are speeders, drunk drivers and other unsafe drivers who get into 'accidents' (which you didn't even mention.)  There is no question that treating them creates a moral hazard, but there are other penalties for drunk drivers and speeders, though not nearly enough.

There are also cases where medical doctors can refuse to treat certain people, like an alcoholic not being able to get a liver transplant.

Also, medical doctors can 'fire' their patients for a number of reasons.
https://www.verywellhealth.com/can-my-doctor-fire-or-dismiss-me-as-a-patient-2615017

[Xing]

People actually think more than 0.2% of “liberals” want this?

[jamestroll]

Nope .. Read twitter sometimes.

[compucomp]

Masks and social distancing restrictions should be separated. It was a big mistake to combine them in messaging as now they are conflated in the mind of the public. Social distancing restrictions hurt the economy and are not sustainable except as short term measures. However, masks have negligible cost, don't restrict activities once the usual exceptions for bars and restaurants are carved out, and are sustainable as a long term solution. They're not even so uncomfortable to wear indoors, nobody calls for outdoor mask mandates. There is no rational reason why indoor mask mandates cannot be employed long term.

[It’s so Joever]

The same reason all blue avatars believe that the Capitol terror attack was the best thing for America since 1776 and that Trump is the supreme being.

[Crumpets]

-snip-

Nope .. Read twitter sometimes.

[Goes on Twitter]





[Leaves Twitter]

[Benjamin Frank]

Masks and social distancing restrictions should be separated. It was a big mistake to combine them in messaging as now they are conflated in the mind of the public. Social distancing restrictions hurt the economy and are not sustainable except as short term measures. However, masks have negligible cost, don't restrict activities once the usual exceptions for bars and restaurants are carved out, and are sustainable as a long term solution. They're not even so uncomfortable to wear indoors, nobody calls for outdoor mask mandates. There is no rational reason why indoor mask mandates cannot be employed long term.

Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, there seems to be a lot of evidence that with the Delta Variant especially, that most masks don't actually do much good.  If you can get an N-95 mask and change it regularly as needed, that's different.  Otherwise, social distancing really is the most effective, if not only way, to avoid getting Covid.  I guess there is still debate as to whether getting vaccinated reduces the likelihood of getting Covid.

[Horus]

People actually think more than 0.2% of “liberals” want this?

My guess is around 10-15% of self described liberals and leftists want permanent indoor mask mandates.

[Benjamin Frank]

People actually think more than 0.2% of “liberals” want this?

My guess is around 10-15% of self described liberals and leftists want permanent indoor mask mandates.

I doubt that even 10-15% have ever thought about it.

[Del Tachi]

The unfortunate thing about the Covid pandemic is that there isn't a clear moment where it's over and life is back to normal. The challenge countries face is picking a time based on their own conditions when the balance shifts so that it is no longer worth it or morally right to impose damaging restrictions on people's lives.

This has been clear since before the outset of the pandemic.  Governments do not have a history of forfeiting powers they gain in the name of protecting "public health", "homeland security" or whatever other jargon is driving the current political moment. 

Unfortunately, public health bureaucrats and the academic-medical research complex have every incentive to prolong the pandemic in the name of perpetuating their own relevance.  The media plays along in promoting panic to drive more engagement/views.  Liberals, who are self-reportedly more likely to trust established media and "science", are complicit in this. 

[Torie]

The unfortunate thing about the Covid pandemic is that there isn't a clear moment where it's over and life is back to normal. The challenge countries face is picking a time based on their own conditions when the balance shifts so that it is no longer worth it or morally right to impose damaging restrictions on people's lives.

This has been clear since before the outset of the pandemic.  Governments do not have a history of forfeiting powers they gain in the name of protecting "public health", "homeland security" or whatever other jargon is driving the current political moment. 

Unfortunately, public health bureaucrats and the academic-medical research complex have every incentive to prolong the pandemic in the name of perpetuating their own relevance.  The media plays along in promoting panic to drive more engagement/views.  Liberals, who are self-reportedly more likely to trust established media and "science", are complicit in this. 

Do you actually believe that that is in fact happening?

[Benjamin Frank]

The unfortunate thing about the Covid pandemic is that there isn't a clear moment where it's over and life is back to normal. The challenge countries face is picking a time based on their own conditions when the balance shifts so that it is no longer worth it or morally right to impose damaging restrictions on people's lives.

This has been clear since before the outset of the pandemic.  Governments do not have a history of forfeiting powers they gain in the name of protecting "public health", "homeland security" or whatever other jargon is driving the current political moment.  

Unfortunately, public health bureaucrats and the academic-medical research complex have every incentive to prolong the pandemic in the name of perpetuating their own relevance.  The media plays along in promoting panic to drive more engagement/views.  Liberals, who are self-reportedly more likely to trust established media and "science", are complicit in this.  

I must have imagined all the times that governments have tried as quickly as possible to lift restrictions.

Ironically, there has been no bigger longstanding ongoing violation of civil liberties than what is used in 'the war on drugs'  which Del Tachi supports.  The mind boggles.

It could likely be argued that President Nixon liked the idea of the 'war on drugs' not because he cared about drugs, but because it allowed him to spy on his perceived opponents, many of whom were marijuana users.

[MATTROSE94]

To save lives?