Why do liberals want masks and restrictions forever?

[Roll Roons]

I'm really curious. What is with this hysteria on the left? Once you're fully vaccinated, go enjoy your life.

Between Pelosi, Bowser and the derangement of some people on here, it's really getting on my nerves.

Just admit a few things:
1. The vaccine is very effective, even against Delta.
2. Getting it once helps your immune system ward off future infections.
3. It is very rare for kids to get seriously ill from it. Guess what? In an average year, a lot more kids probably die in car accidents or drown in swimming pools.

[Orwell]

Why do liberals want [strawman argument]?

Thought this was a SirWoodbury thread at first.

[EastwoodS]

Bc it’s the opposite of whatever republicans want and vice versa, welcome to the era of cynicism.

[CookieDamage]

Liberals don't want masks and restrictions forever.

[Bootes Void]

Forever? I expect covid restriction by the end of 2021 in most of the west. It might be around in less developed countries but that's where vaccine passports come to play

[ProudModerate2]

Liberals don't want masks and restrictions forever.

[Benjamin Frank]

When did the venal, selfish and evil South Park's Cartman "I'll do what I want!" become the driving ideology of the Republican Party and why must everybody else cater to that evil?

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

They don’t.

[jamestroll]

For most its not with bad intentions and is for the sake of public health. But many do have an agenda of overthrowing capitalism and expanding governmental control.

I mentioned in the main covid thread that the left wing embrace of remote work is a head scratcher due to the increased inequalities and the eventual vulnerability of mass outsourcing to foreign countries.

[Calthrina950]

I have noticed that the response to the CDC's change in guidance seems to have coalesced along partisan lines. Republican politicians have been vigorous in denouncing the change, while Democratic politicians have either said nothing or have defended the change in guidance. This is an issue on which I strongly disagree with Biden about, and I'm unhappy that this decision was made. I did notice that Pelosi reimposed the mask mandate in the House, which makes no sense at this point. Something on the order of 75% of the House has received the vaccine, which I'd imagine would be above the ideal threshold that was identified earlier this year.

[Alben Barkley]

We do? I haven't worn my mask unless in a setting in which it's required (which it now rarely is) for several weeks, and I have no intention of resuming regularly wearing it again.

[jamestroll]

My problem is that few on the left have any end goal to this. My end is a largely vaccinated population.

I also feel like I have been bullied here just because I am a realist on the situation.

[Hammy]

Because politicians are too lazy or stupid to actually enforce restrictions against the people who are spreading the virus, so they do whatever takes the least amount of brain cells to come up with.

[IAMCANADIAN]

Why do liberals want [strawman argument]?

Thought this was a SirWoodbury thread at first.

This is the response of most democrats in this thread, that this is some kind of strawman argument. The thing is the Democrats position is that "they listen to the Science" and if the science states that we wear masks forever than we should wear masks forever. Every democrat is at least open to the possibility of forever restrictions.

There is no strawman here

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

This is so, so dumb.

1. People who are vaccinated are not dying from Covid.
2. The whole point of restrictions was to stop people who don't want to die from dying. This has been accomplished.
3. Everyone over the age of 12 can get a vaccine, and has had that opportunity for months.
4. People under the age of 12 aren't dying of Covid.
5. People who choose not to be vaccinated and contract Covid have made their choice. They're dumb, but it's their problem. We don't owe them anything.

Therefore
6. Lift all the restrictions. The pandemic is functionally over. The unvaccinated can face their fate alone.

[here2view]

Some do, and they make me ashamed to be a Democrat.

I taught all last year in a mask to middle schoolers, so don't give me any "oH yOu'Re JusT aNtI-MaSk" BS. I proudly wore it when I worked at a grocery store as a second job last year as well.

But my individual risk assessment has drastically changed since last summer as a result of getting vaccinated. Sorry, I'll take my chance with a vaccine that's 85%+ effective against the delta variant when the flu shot typically has a 40-60% efficacy rate. I get the flu shot every year, never had the flu. 

[Alben Barkley]

Why do liberals want [strawman argument]?

Thought this was a SirWoodbury thread at first.

This is the response of most democrats in this thread, that this is some kind of strawman argument. The thing is the Democrats position is that "they listen to the Science" and if the science states that we wear masks forever than we should wear masks forever. Every democrat is at least open to the possibility of forever restrictions.

There is no strawman here

A strawman is arguing against a position your opponent did not actually argue. "Liberals" as a group have not ever once endorsed "masks and restrictions forever," therefore the argument is a strawman. Ironically, your own argument is also a strawman. No one here said anything you are claiming about "the science" either. You are not actually attacking anything anyone in question said. You might be attacking things you might have heard somebody somewhere say, but you are conflating that with what everyone even vaguely politically associated (at least in your mind) with that person thinks, which is not logically valid. Moreover, your argument is strained and based on a ridiculous hypothetical and massive leap in logic anyway; I could just as easily say "The Republicans' position is that they listen to Donald Trump, so if Donald Trump said that we wear masks forever then we wear masks forever. Every Republican is at least open to the possibility of forever restrictions." It would be just as true. But of course, neither Trump or "the science" is actually saying that, making it a totally irrelevant and illogical argument as well as a strawman.

[Benjamin Frank]

This is so, so dumb.

1. People who are vaccinated are not dying from Covid.
2. The whole point of restrictions was to stop people who don't want to die from dying. This has been accomplished.
3. Everyone over the age of 12 can get a vaccine, and has had that opportunity for months.
4. People under the age of 12 aren't dying of Covid.
5. People who choose not to be vaccinated and contract Covid have made their choice. They're dumb, but it's their problem. We don't owe them anything.

Therefore
6. Lift all the restrictions. The pandemic is functionally over. The unvaccinated can face their fate alone.

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1420752375229206542

Also, by 'we don't owe them anything' do you mean that they should either not be admitted into a hospital, or that, at the very least, they have to pay the full cost of their own medical treatment?

[Tartarus Sauce]

This is so, so dumb.

1. People who are vaccinated are not dying from Covid.
2. The whole point of restrictions was to stop people who don't want to die from dying. This has been accomplished.
3. Everyone over the age of 12 can get a vaccine, and has had that opportunity for months.
4. People under the age of 12 aren't dying of Covid.
5. People who choose not to be vaccinated and contract Covid have made their choice. They're dumb, but it's their problem. We don't owe them anything.

Therefore
6. Lift all the restrictions. The pandemic is functionally over. The unvaccinated can face their fate alone.

It's not quite as simple as that. Sub-herd immunity amongst the population means that having a bunch of vaccinated individuals mingling with unvaccinated ones provides opportunities for the virus to bounce around and mutate into a strain not covered by the vaccines. This is why the vaccine hesitant and opt-outs are still posing a public health hazard.

Mask mandates that encompass the vaccinated are an incredibly clumsy and ham-fisted policy response to that problem, however.

[Benjamin Frank]

This is so, so dumb.

1. People who are vaccinated are not dying from Covid.
2. The whole point of restrictions was to stop people who don't want to die from dying. This has been accomplished.
3. Everyone over the age of 12 can get a vaccine, and has had that opportunity for months.
4. People under the age of 12 aren't dying of Covid.
5. People who choose not to be vaccinated and contract Covid have made their choice. They're dumb, but it's their problem. We don't owe them anything.

Therefore
6. Lift all the restrictions. The pandemic is functionally over. The unvaccinated can face their fate alone.

It's not quite as simple as that. Sub-herd immunity amongst the population means that having a bunch of vaccinated individuals mingling with unvaccinated ones provides opportunities for the virus to bounce around and mutate into a strain not covered by the vaccines. This is why the vaccine hesitant and opt-outs are still posing a public health hazard.

Mask mandates for the vaccinated is an incredibly clumsy and ham-fisted policy response to that problem, however.

Unfortunately there is no way to prevent unvaccinated people from 'free riding' on restrictions not also imposed on the vaccinated. 

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

This is so, so dumb.

1. People who are vaccinated are not dying from Covid.
2. The whole point of restrictions was to stop people who don't want to die from dying. This has been accomplished.
3. Everyone over the age of 12 can get a vaccine, and has had that opportunity for months.
4. People under the age of 12 aren't dying of Covid.
5. People who choose not to be vaccinated and contract Covid have made their choice. They're dumb, but it's their problem. We don't owe them anything.

Therefore
6. Lift all the restrictions. The pandemic is functionally over. The unvaccinated can face their fate alone.

Also, by 'we don't owe them anything' do you mean that they should either not be admitted into a hospital, or that, at the very least, they have to pay the full cost of their own medical treatment?

It means that we shouldn't force the unvaccinated to be safe at the expense of the vaccinated. Obviously, they should have access to medical treatment. But returning to mask mandates or (God forbid) shutdowns to keep people who choose to be unsafe safe just isn't fair to the rest of us. I'm not going to inconvenience myself for those who won't get the shot.

[Benjamin Frank]

This is so, so dumb.

1. People who are vaccinated are not dying from Covid.
2. The whole point of restrictions was to stop people who don't want to die from dying. This has been accomplished.
3. Everyone over the age of 12 can get a vaccine, and has had that opportunity for months.
4. People under the age of 12 aren't dying of Covid.
5. People who choose not to be vaccinated and contract Covid have made their choice. They're dumb, but it's their problem. We don't owe them anything.

Therefore
6. Lift all the restrictions. The pandemic is functionally over. The unvaccinated can face their fate alone.

Also, by 'we don't owe them anything' do you mean that they should either not be admitted into a hospital, or that, at the very least, they have to pay the full cost of their own medical treatment?

It means that we shouldn't force the unvaccinated to be safe at the expense of the vaccinated. Obviously, they should have access to medical treatment. But returning to mask mandates or (God forbid) shutdowns to keep people who choose to be unsafe safe just isn't fair to the rest of us. I'm not going to inconvenience myself for those who won't get the shot.

Why should they have access to medical treatment?

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

This is so, so dumb.

1. People who are vaccinated are not dying from Covid.
2. The whole point of restrictions was to stop people who don't want to die from dying. This has been accomplished.
3. Everyone over the age of 12 can get a vaccine, and has had that opportunity for months.
4. People under the age of 12 aren't dying of Covid.
5. People who choose not to be vaccinated and contract Covid have made their choice. They're dumb, but it's their problem. We don't owe them anything.

Therefore
6. Lift all the restrictions. The pandemic is functionally over. The unvaccinated can face their fate alone.

Also, by 'we don't owe them anything' do you mean that they should either not be admitted into a hospital, or that, at the very least, they have to pay the full cost of their own medical treatment?

It means that we shouldn't force the unvaccinated to be safe at the expense of the vaccinated. Obviously, they should have access to medical treatment. But returning to mask mandates or (God forbid) shutdowns to keep people who choose to be unsafe safe just isn't fair to the rest of us. I'm not going to inconvenience myself for those who won't get the shot.

Why should they have access to medical treatment?

Because unlike Covid restrictions, it doesn't inconvenience me. It's literally that simple.

[Benjamin Frank]

This is so, so dumb.

1. People who are vaccinated are not dying from Covid.
2. The whole point of restrictions was to stop people who don't want to die from dying. This has been accomplished.
3. Everyone over the age of 12 can get a vaccine, and has had that opportunity for months.
4. People under the age of 12 aren't dying of Covid.
5. People who choose not to be vaccinated and contract Covid have made their choice. They're dumb, but it's their problem. We don't owe them anything.

Therefore
6. Lift all the restrictions. The pandemic is functionally over. The unvaccinated can face their fate alone.

Also, by 'we don't owe them anything' do you mean that they should either not be admitted into a hospital, or that, at the very least, they have to pay the full cost of their own medical treatment?

It means that we shouldn't force the unvaccinated to be safe at the expense of the vaccinated. Obviously, they should have access to medical treatment. But returning to mask mandates or (God forbid) shutdowns to keep people who choose to be unsafe safe just isn't fair to the rest of us. I'm not going to inconvenience myself for those who won't get the shot.

Why should they have access to medical treatment?

Because unlike Covid restrictions, it doesn't inconvenience me. It's literally that simple.

It doesn't? It might prevent you from getting treatment in a full hospital. Also, it costs you money.

Finally, they still put your safety at risk to some degree.

Also, not on this, but if they don't believe in medical science, why would they want to go to the hospital in the first place?

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

This is so, so dumb.

1. People who are vaccinated are not dying from Covid.
2. The whole point of restrictions was to stop people who don't want to die from dying. This has been accomplished.
3. Everyone over the age of 12 can get a vaccine, and has had that opportunity for months.
4. People under the age of 12 aren't dying of Covid.
5. People who choose not to be vaccinated and contract Covid have made their choice. They're dumb, but it's their problem. We don't owe them anything.

Therefore
6. Lift all the restrictions. The pandemic is functionally over. The unvaccinated can face their fate alone.

Also, by 'we don't owe them anything' do you mean that they should either not be admitted into a hospital, or that, at the very least, they have to pay the full cost of their own medical treatment?

It means that we shouldn't force the unvaccinated to be safe at the expense of the vaccinated. Obviously, they should have access to medical treatment. But returning to mask mandates or (God forbid) shutdowns to keep people who choose to be unsafe safe just isn't fair to the rest of us. I'm not going to inconvenience myself for those who won't get the shot.

Why should they have access to medical treatment?

Because unlike Covid restrictions, it doesn't inconvenience me. It's literally that simple.

It doesn't? It might prevent you from getting treatment in a full hospital. Also, it costs you money.

I haven't been to a hospital since I was born and I don't mind paying the extra $25 in taxes this might cost me. But at this point, it just isn't fair to ask people who have done everything right this whole damn pandemic to make sacrifices for those who refuse to help themselves despite being given every opportunity.