Why do liberals want masks and restrictions forever?

[DabbingSanta]

Hilarious that the most extreme Delta doomer in this thread is now someone named "CentristRepublican," should we change the thread title now?

His comments are not anything near being an "extreme Delta doomer."
Any no where did he say he wants "masks and restrictions forever" (the actual thread title you make light of).
Learn to read.

His only contributions to this thread in this thread are condescendingly telling us that he's socially distancing and masking and everyone else who isn't is an idiot, doubting the effectiveness of vaccines by overexaggerating the dangers of breakthrough cases due to his own paranoia, and putting his ignorance about viral diseases on full display by not knowing that the flu is deadly. I'm pretty sure that qualifies as a "doomer."

Besides, as you pointed out already, my only other contribution is this thread is pointing out what a ridiculous premise this question is since it's an overexaggeration and mask authoritians exist on all sides of the political spectrum and I was merely pointing out how it was funny that both the OP and CentristRepublican are both self described moderate Republicans.

So I think you and your friend are the ones who actually need to learn how to read.

A lot of "self described moderate Republicans" on here are actually communists.  This might cause a stir but hear me out. The word "liberal" implies you're for personal and economic freedoms.  The mask cult is not for either.  Advocating for control of businesses and personal affairs before 2020 would have been an insane fringe position.  Normalizing it has caused nothing but trouble.  Time to call it what it is — communism.  If you support lockdowns and mask mandates, you are advocating for communism.

Or maybe we just want to stop irrational people from being a threat to themselves and others, and want to potentially save lives. If my wanting that triggers you to call me a 'communist,' I'm fine with that. At least I want to save lives. You don't. That to me matters for more than whatever random label you choose to give me (knowing basically nothing about my political views except for the fact that I support masks and lockdowns).

Mask mandates and lockdowns are an authoritarian-left position taken right from China's play book.  There's a lot of self proclaimed "moderates" and "conservatives" on here that are not all that moderate or conservative at all, and it really shows with this issue.   The argument that these restrictions have saved lives is pretty dubious, as numerous places which implemented total lockdowns/mask mandates still suffered from high rates of death.  It's time to live and let live.  If you are worried about COVID, get vaccinated, wear a mask, and avoid crowds.  Stop trying to dictate your views on others.  People can make their own decisions on what precautions they need to take.

[Torie]

The above post really gets under my skin. I will leave it at that.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

I don't care if someone claims to be liberal, conservative, or moderate. We essentially have post-pandemic masks now. The mayor of Fargo, North Dakota, said way back in May that the pandemic is over in the U.S., yet some parts of the U.S. keep doubling down on masks.

Illinois is on Phase 5 of its reopening plan, which is considered post-pandemic. Yet Illinois keeps doubling down on masks. Various settings in Illinois still require masks (or are just beginning to require them) even though the state has essentially declared the pandemic over.

[politicallefty]

The above post really gets under my skin. I will leave it at that.

It's a form of rabid individualism that doesn't consider the impact of being a part of a larger whole. Live and let live for many is live and let die. I am an adamant proponent of bodily autonomy, which is why even I am very hesitant to require vaccines as a matter of law (I don't think vaccines are a violation of bodily autonomy, but I prefer not forcing it in that way). However, I do support vaccine passports such as what NYC is proposing. If you want to participate in society, you have certain responsibilities. The coronavirus has no greater friend than Ron DeSantis, prohibiting cruise ships from asking for vaccine status and stopping schools from enforcing mask mandates.

Mask mandates and social distancing are not fundamental violations of individual rights. If you are truly oppressed, you do not live in a Western democratic society. It is important for all of us, regardless of vaccination status, to stop this virus as soon as possible. We are at extreme risk of a mutation that could render our vaccines either entirely ineffective or far less efficacious. Even short of that, outbreaks among the unvaccinated are quickly filling up hospital beds. Those that are vaccinated, but with other medical needs are now finding themselves without beds in certain areas of the country. I would've expected better from the vaccinated left. All we have to do is wear a mask in areas of high or substantial transmission in certain indoor places. That's it. No one is calling for more lockdowns or even strict enforcement of social distancing (I do miss the one-way aisle arrows in grocery stores, even aside from the pandemic issues).

[Calthrina950]

Nate Silver, the famed FiveThirtyEight analyst and political contributor, provided this helpful breakdown of the American electorate, and their views on restrictions, including mask-wearing:

Almost everyone on this forum seems to fall into Groups A, B, and C. I don't think we have anyone who is in Group E. Most Democrats, progressives, and leftists here (such as politicallefty) seem to fall into Group B, while most Republicans, independents, and libertarians here are in Group C. We have one person that I know of (Del Tachi) who falls into Group D.

[politicallefty]

Almost everyone on this forum seems to fall into Groups A, B, and C. I don't think we have anyone who is in Group E. Most Democrats, progressives, and leftists here (such as politicallefty) seem to fall into Group B, while most Republicans, independents, and libertarians here are in Group C. We have one person that I know of (Del Tachi) who falls into Group D.

That is a fair assessment of my stance, although it seems like a lot of progressives and those on the left on this forum are really in Group C (and I can count on one hand how many I see in Group A). I am firmly in Group B, although things would have to get extraordinarily bad for me to be firmly in Group A (maybe a subset of that group, depending on how bad things could be). That would essentially require the vaccines to start being ineffective or substantially less effective. I really hope that doesn't happen. I didn't get vaccinated because it was fun. I did it to protect myself and others. It was a huge sigh of relief for me on a personal basis. But I am very concerned about the possibility of a mutation that will seriously set us back. To be honest, I'm almost expecting it by the end of the year. Group D is too large to crush this virus and its mutant variants.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

I'm in Group C (except the "center right" part).

[Donerail]

(Lil Pump voice) Group C gang, Group C gang, Group C gang, Group C gang

[Horus]

Group C, which I'm a part of, probably skews not only heavily young but also male making them overrepresented on Atlas. Otoh Group E is probably 90% women which explains why there's no one with these views here.

The teachers unions for example, which I'd assume are heavily woman dominated, seem to be going above and beyond to cater to group E.

[beaver2.0]

I think group C might be a bit larger than that image indicates.  Or is overrepresented on here.

[DS0816]

I'm really curious. What is with this hysteria on the left? Once you're fully vaccinated, go enjoy your life.

…

They are not the actual left.

They are corrupt.

They want control.

[Dr. Arch]

My Friend's mother is in Group E, but she also believes the vaccine makes you magnetic and is manufactured by Bill Gates to get a chip into you. She's never leaving Group E by the look of things.

[JGibson]

I am in Group B, with traces of Group A.

[TheTide]

I don't know how many different ways sane people will have to spell it out for you before it finally sinks in (if ever), but: Masks save lives.

A far more effective way of "saving lives" is ordering items online, which I would wager that the great majority of those wearing masks in grocery stores have the capacity and time to do.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Almost everyone on this forum seems to fall into Groups A, B, and C. I don't think we have anyone who is in Group E. Most Democrats, progressives, and leftists here (such as politicallefty) seem to fall into Group B, while most Republicans, independents, and libertarians here are in Group C. We have one person that I know of (Del Tachi) who falls into Group D.

That is a fair assessment of my stance, although it seems like a lot of progressives and those on the left on this forum are really in Group C (and I can count on one hand how many I see in Group A). I am firmly in Group B, although things would have to get extraordinarily bad for me to be firmly in Group A (maybe a subset of that group, depending on how bad things could be). That would essentially require the vaccines to start being ineffective or substantially less effective. I really hope that doesn't happen. I didn't get vaccinated because it was fun. I did it to protect myself and others. It was a huge sigh of relief for me on a personal basis. But I am very concerned about the possibility of a mutation that will seriously set us back. To be honest, I'm almost expecting it by the end of the year. Group D is too large to crush this virus and its mutant variants.

'A Few Mutations Away': The Threat of a Vaccine-Proof Variant

July 30, 2021 -- The CDC Director Rochelle Walensky, MD, made a dire prediction during a media briefing this week that, if we weren't already living within the reality of the COVID-19 pandemic, would sound more like a pitch for a movie about a dystopian future.

"For the amount of virus circulating in this country right now largely among unvaccinated people, the largest concern that we in public health and science are worried about is that the virus…[becomes] a very transmissible virus that has the potential to evade our vaccines in terms of how it protects us from severe disease and death," Walensky told reporters on Tuesday.

"The viral evolution is a bit like a ticking clock. The more we allow infections to occur, the more likely changes will occur. When we have lots of people infected, we give more chances to the virus to diversify and then adapt to selective pressures," says Ray, vice-chair of medicine for data integrity and analytics and professor in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine in Baltimore, Maryland.

"The problem is if the virus changes in such a way that the spike protein — which the antibodies from the vaccine are directed against — are no longer effective at binding and destroying the virus, and the virus escapes immune surveillance," Nelson says.

Delta infections among vaccinated likely contagious; Lambda variant shows vaccine resistance in lab August 2, 2021

The Lambda variant of the coronavirus, first identified in Peru and now spreading in South America, is highly infectious and more resistant to vaccines than the original version of the virus the emerged from Wuhan, China, Japanese researchers have found.

In laboratory experiments, they found that three mutations in Lambda's spike protein, known as RSYLTPGD246-253N, 260 L452Q and F490S, help it resist neutralization by vaccine-induced antibodies. Two additional mutations, T76I and L452Q, help make Lambda highly infectious, they found. In a paper posted on Wednesday on bioRxiv ahead of peer review, the researchers warn that with Lambda being labeled a "Variant of Interest" by the World Health Organization, rather than a "Variant of Concern," people might not realize it is a serious ongoing threat.

I'm in group A. We do not have the pandemic under control. Once we get to the point where we can effectively do contact tracing on new outbreaks we can relax. Until then, we need to get everyone vaccinated, mask, keep up social distancing and hygiene protocols, and avoid super-spread events at all costs. (I would say "avoid super-spreader events like the plague" but that apparently means "just do it anyway" now.)

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Incidentally, Group C is the default for people I know in real life. Group D was the default back before vaccines were available.

[Ferguson97]

Hilarious that the most extreme Delta doomer in this thread is now someone named "CentristRepublican," should we change the thread title now?

His comments are not anything near being an "extreme Delta doomer."
Any no where did he say he wants "masks and restrictions forever" (the actual thread title you make light of).
Learn to read.

His only contributions to this thread in this thread are condescendingly telling us that he's socially distancing and masking and everyone else who isn't is an idiot, doubting the effectiveness of vaccines by overexaggerating the dangers of breakthrough cases due to his own paranoia, and putting his ignorance about viral diseases on full display by not knowing that the flu is deadly. I'm pretty sure that qualifies as a "doomer."

Besides, as you pointed out already, my only other contribution is this thread is pointing out what a ridiculous premise this question is since it's an overexaggeration and mask authoritians exist on all sides of the political spectrum and I was merely pointing out how it was funny that both the OP and CentristRepublican are both self described moderate Republicans.

So I think you and your friend are the ones who actually need to learn how to read.

A lot of "self described moderate Republicans" on here are actually communists.  This might cause a stir but hear me out. The word "liberal" implies you're for personal and economic freedoms.  The mask cult is not for either.  Advocating for control of businesses and personal affairs before 2020 would have been an insane fringe position.  Normalizing it has caused nothing but trouble.  Time to call it what it is — communism.  If you support lockdowns and mask mandates, you are advocating for communism.

Or maybe we just want to stop irrational people from being a threat to themselves and others, and want to potentially save lives. If my wanting that triggers you to call me a 'communist,' I'm fine with that. At least I want to save lives. You don't. That to me matters for more than whatever random label you choose to give me (knowing basically nothing about my political views except for the fact that I support masks and lockdowns).

Mask mandates and lockdowns are an authoritarian-left position taken right from China's play book.  There's a lot of self proclaimed "moderates" and "conservatives" on here that are not all that moderate or conservative at all, and it really shows with this issue.   The argument that these restrictions have saved lives is pretty dubious, as numerous places which implemented total lockdowns/mask mandates still suffered from high rates of death.  It's time to live and let live.  If you are worried about COVID, get vaccinated, wear a mask, and avoid crowds.  Stop trying to dictate your views on others.  People can make their own decisions on what precautions they need to take.

I don’t want to hear any tears from an unvaccinated/unmasked person who gets covid then.

And the idea that lockdowns are authoritarian is laughable

[Bandit3 the Worker]

And the idea that lockdowns are authoritarian is laughable

If placing entire countries or states on house arrest isn't authoritarian, what is?

[Badger]

And the idea that lockdowns are authoritarian is laughable

If placing entire countries or states on house arrest isn't authoritarian, what is?

That....didn't happen?

[DabbingSanta]

And the idea that lockdowns are authoritarian is laughable

If placing entire countries or states on house arrest isn't authoritarian, what is?

That....didn't happen?

It's actually amazing that people on different sides of the aisle live in completely alternative realities.  I can't even grasp at this take. Like.... were you watching the news the past 18 months? It wasn't so bad in America outside places like New York City but there were many countries that did completely shut down (Spain, France, UK, Australia, etc)

[compucomp]

And the idea that lockdowns are authoritarian is laughable

If placing entire countries or states on house arrest isn't authoritarian, what is?

That....didn't happen?

It's actually amazing that people on different sides of the aisle live in completely alternative realities.  I can't even grasp at this take. Like.... were you watching the news the past 18 months? It wasn't so bad in America outside places like New York City but there were many countries that did completely shut down (Spain, France, UK, Australia, etc)

Indeed, except we're in reality and you're the one with the alternative reality. Sean Spicer might blush at the alternative facts you're trying to peddle now. In the USA the shelter-in-place orders were not enforced at all. Where were the police patrolling the streets telling people to go home? Oh right, this didn't happen whatsoever anywhere. Businesses were shut down, yes, but in many states a substantial fraction of businesses were able to be classified as essential businesses and continue to run.

In any case, the shelter-in-place orders and business shutdowns all ended by July 2020. So for the last year, while the pandemic continued to rage out of control, there has been no shutdown anywhere in the USA. You're truly blind and delusional if you think that some capacity restrictions and mask mandates could be called "placing entire countries or states on house arrest".

[Xing]

I don’t like wearing a mask and don’t want permanent restrictions, but the degree to which people lose their minds over having to wear a piece of cloth is so American. In several East Asian countries, mask-wearing in public places was somewhat common among some long before the pandemic, and doing such a minimal amount of effort to try and curb infection is seen as a no-brainer, rather than “BuT mUh FrEeDoM!!!”

[Schiff for Senate]

I don't know how many different ways sane people will have to spell it out for you before it finally sinks in (if ever), but: Masks save lives.

A far more effective way of "saving lives" is ordering items online, which I would wager that the great majority of those wearing masks in grocery stores have the capacity and time to do.

Agreed. But for those who do need to go to the grocery store, for whatever reason, masks are a must. Of course, online shopping is the safest option, but it can't always be utilized, and that's when masks are necessary.

[OSR stands with Israel]

I don't know how many different ways sane people will have to spell it out for you before it finally sinks in (if ever), but: Masks save lives.

A far more effective way of "saving lives" is ordering items online, which I would wager that the great majority of those wearing masks in grocery stores have the capacity and time to do.

Agreed. But for those who do need to go to the grocery store, for whatever reason, masks are a must. Of course, online shopping is the safest option, but it can't always be utilized, and that's when masks are necessary.

More than 80% of people in  my liberal Portland suburb dont wear masks anymore in stores

[Badger]

And the idea that lockdowns are authoritarian is laughable

If placing entire countries or states on house arrest isn't authoritarian, what is?

That....didn't happen?

It's actually amazing that people on different sides of the aisle live in completely alternative realities.  I can't even grasp at this take. Like.... were you watching the news the past 18 months? It wasn't so bad in America outside places like New York City but there were many countries that did completely shut down (Spain, France, UK, Australia, etc)

What's even weirder here is that on just about every other issue band it is very much on "this" (my) side of the aisle.

He is one of those far left likely voted Green types whose anti-vaxxer ism is an example of horseshoe Theory