Why do liberals want masks and restrictions forever?

[Donerail]

Masks have negligible cost, don't restrict activities once the usual exceptions for bars and restaurants are carved out, and are sustainable as a long term solution. They're not even so uncomfortable to wear indoors, nobody calls for outdoor mask mandates. There is no rational reason why indoor mask mandates cannot be employed long term.

Mr. Computer, are you employed?

[pppolitics]

Why do liberals want [strawman argument]?

Thought this was a SirWoodbury thread at first.

Actually, this is a loaded question fallacy.

[Skunk]

The actual amount of "liberals" who want indefinite mask mandates and social restrictions are really low. A niche internet forum like this is bound to overrepresent introverted people who don't have as high of a desire to interact face to face in person with friends again and thus view masks and social distancing efforts as "low cost" compared to everyone else. Even with that though there are still plenty left leaning users, myself included, who don't wear masks given the option.

[Del Tachi]

The unfortunate thing about the Covid pandemic is that there isn't a clear moment where it's over and life is back to normal. The challenge countries face is picking a time based on their own conditions when the balance shifts so that it is no longer worth it or morally right to impose damaging restrictions on people's lives.

This has been clear since before the outset of the pandemic.  Governments do not have a history of forfeiting powers they gain in the name of protecting "public health", "homeland security" or whatever other jargon is driving the current political moment. 

Unfortunately, public health bureaucrats and the academic-medical research complex have every incentive to prolong the pandemic in the name of perpetuating their own relevance.  The media plays along in promoting panic to drive more engagement/views.  Liberals, who are self-reportedly more likely to trust established media and "science", are complicit in this. 

Do you actually believe that that is in fact happening?

It is not a conspiracy to note that a prolonged, constant state of COVID-19 fanactism stands to personally, professionally, politically and monetarily benefit many individuals who have made their careers as public health bureaucrats, research physicians, and/or medical journalists.  It is easily observable how people, from Tony Fauci to Andy Slavitt, have relished in the celebrity and new influence the pandemic has brought them.  They will not easily give it up.

Of course, this kind of rent-seeking behavior is not something that is unique to the COVID crisis or this particular subset of the technocrat class.  But it's much more dumbfounding to see people oblivious to this reality than it is to hear even the most anti-vax conspiracy theories or whatever.

[Torie]

The unfortunate thing about the Covid pandemic is that there isn't a clear moment where it's over and life is back to normal. The challenge countries face is picking a time based on their own conditions when the balance shifts so that it is no longer worth it or morally right to impose damaging restrictions on people's lives.

This has been clear since before the outset of the pandemic.  Governments do not have a history of forfeiting powers they gain in the name of protecting "public health", "homeland security" or whatever other jargon is driving the current political moment. 

Unfortunately, public health bureaucrats and the academic-medical research complex have every incentive to prolong the pandemic in the name of perpetuating their own relevance.  The media plays along in promoting panic to drive more engagement/views.  Liberals, who are self-reportedly more likely to trust established media and "science", are complicit in this. 

Do you actually believe that that is in fact happening?

It is not a conspiracy to note that a prolonged, constant state of COVID-19 fanactism stands to personally, professionally, politically and monetarily benefit many individuals who have made their careers as public health bureaucrats, research physicians, and/or medical journalists.  It is easily observable how people, from Tony Fauci to Andy Slavitt, have relished in the celebrity and new influence the pandemic has brought them.  They will not easily give it up.

Of course, this kind of rent-seeking behavior is not something that is unique to the COVID crisis or this particular subset of the technocrat class.  But it's much more dumbfounding to see people oblivious to this reality than it is to hear even the most anti-vax conspiracy theories or whatever.

Yeah, but my question beyond the theoretical possibility of "corrupt" bureaucratic self aggrandizement and power grabbing, is whether or not YOU actually believe that is happening here.

I ask because I actually believe what these people are telling me, and I want them to tell others, because it might actually either save my live (or has saved my life), and allowed me to some extent to actually venture out from my lair. I also believe what my doctor is telling me, and we are personal friends who really care about each other, and he is a man in whom I have great confidence.

[politicallefty]

Of course not. I don't want most restrictions in place anymore, even now. I want places to be open as much as possible and practicable. One of the big issues seems to be schools. I want them open as much as we can do it. If we need masks and social distancing, so be it. That should be an absolute for those under 12 that cannot get the vaccine at this time. All those working in schools, including teachers, should be required to get the vaccine by a set time. If you're still on your vaccine regimen (i.e. prior to two weeks after your second shot), you should be required to wear a mask.

But as for this anti-mask hysteria, it's just plain lunacy. I don't hate masks. I don't enjoy masks. They're simply a tool that we use to protect ourselves. Do you guys hate winter coats when it goes under 40-45F? What about sunblock when you're on the beach in the middle of summer? Very likely no to both. Wearing a mask is NOT a symbol of oppression. If you believe that, you are in desperate need of perspective. I do not, however, want to get rid of masks entirely. They are an effective tool in our arsenal against many pathogens. Once we get through this pandemic (or at least once we have this virus under control), should we wear them 24/7/365? No. Should we as a society consider wearing them (on a voluntary, though encouraged, basis) during the winter months? Absolutely.

[Donerail]

I must have missed when my local government required me to wear sunscreen

[leonardothered]

Because people aren't getting vaccines, which means that we have to go back to masks. If everyone had gotten the vaccine we'd effectively be done with the crisis. I know people with the vaccine who are getting covid; most the the unvaccinated people got it in the meantime before Delta, and some people are getting it twice.

[Pres Mike]

Only 11% of the country still wear a mask. But that was before the recent wave of mask mandates so it may have gone up

That said, its clear liberals don't want to wear masks anymore than anyone else. Its just a very small percentage of twitter crazy DOOMERS who want to wear mask forever. Sometimes local officials like in LA and St. Louis are too accomandating of these people

[Inmate Trump]

I think the better question is, Why do Republicans refuse to get vaccinated?

[Torie]

I want to wear a mask forever, because I really enjoy having trouble breathing. Other liberals love them because they think they are a cool fashion accessory. I hope that helps.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Secularist didn't impose the mandate the Surgeon General Adkins and CDC imposed masks Mandate and Asian countries and certain jobs like Construction jobs require you to wear mask at all rimes

The Surgeon General office and Adkins were tied to Pence

[morgieb]

Because some don't have desire to leave the country, have jobs they can do at home and don't have friends. That allows them to take the ultra-conservative approach to COVID, ignoring the impact it has on 90% of the population.

[Donerail]

Not an epidemiologist, but I don't think you could have contracted COVID, a disease caused by a virus first released and detected in Wuhan in November 2019, in either December 2018 or April 2019.

[Schiff for Senate]

I'm really curious. What is with this hysteria on the left? Once you're fully vaccinated, go enjoy your life.

Between Pelosi, Bowser and the derangement of some people on here, it's really getting on my nerves.

Just admit a few things:
1. The vaccine is very effective, even against Delta.
2. Getting it once helps your immune system ward off future infections.
3. It is very rare for kids to get seriously ill from it. Guess what? In an average year, a lot more kids probably die in car accidents or drown in swimming pools.

The variant is spreading rapidly and reaching even doubly-vaccinated people. Masks are just an additional precaution. Is it really a lot to ask to where a mask (it takes 5 seconds and costs, like, 5 cents) if it will potentially save lives? Or is your liberterian, anti-government streak more important to you than the fact that a deadly, unpredictable pandemic is still raging? It's precisely because there are a lot of similarly irrational folk who have this mindset that a mask mandate is a necessary precaution.

I'm not going to 'admit' to #1 when it's a falsehood. The delta variant has reached even doubly-vaccinated people!! It's hard to rationalize with someone whose very facts and information is inaccurate, outdated, and/or incomplete. Your argument fits the bill.

In response to #2, I say simply: not against the delta variant.

As for #3...Okay, great. What about adults? Or are only childrens' lives important to you?

And to your first sentence, I must say, it's hard to enjoy your life knowing that you may have given someone else a deadly disease because of your own pigheadedness, or possibly even yourself.

[Schiff for Senate]

The actual amount of "liberals" who want indefinite mask mandates and social restrictions are really low. A niche internet forum like this is bound to overrepresent introverted people who don't have as high of a desire to interact face to face in person with friends again and thus view masks and social distancing efforts as "low cost" compared to everyone else. Even with that though there are still plenty left leaning users, myself included, who don't wear masks given the option.

And I thought that liberals, at least, were rational with regards to the pandemic. It seems as if the whole nation has collectively lost its mind and has thrown caution and safety to the winds. Luckily, I'm in that small percentage of mask-wearers and who social distance or stay home.

It appears the country is suffering from two pandemics simulataneously, each of which is helping fuel the other: COVID19 and idiocy/irrationality.

[Donerail]

Just admit a few things:
3. It is very rare for kids to get seriously ill from it. Guess what? In an average year, a lot more kids probably die in car accidents or drown in swimming pools.

As for #3...Okay, great. What about adults? Or are only childrens' lives important to you?

The focus is on children because children are the only remaining large population of the "involuntarily unvaccinated." Children under 12 (along with a small handful of people with allergies or certain rare medical conditions) can't get the vaccine, because it isn't approved for them.

Unvaccinated adults, with the exceptions of the small populations I mentioned, are unvaccinated by choice. That's their personal health decision, and they're free to make that choice. But we shouldn't be making policy to cater to those people and help them avoid the consequences of their choices. I'm tired of doing things to protect the health of people who seem entirely uninterested in protecting themselves.

[compucomp]

If by "liberals support masks and restrictions" you mean "a majority of Americans support masks and restrictions, even including 24% of Republicans", then you'd be right:

https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=457095.0

[ElectionsGuy]

I can never forgive the Democratic Party for the policies and ways they've conducted themselves throughout this pandemic. A lot of Republicans haven't been much better either. Every month or so since March 2020 I think to myself "they can't get any more unhinged, irrational, and authoritarian, can they" and they do.

[OSR stands with Israel]

The actual amount of "liberals" who want indefinite mask mandates and social restrictions are really low. A niche internet forum like this is bound to overrepresent introverted people who don't have as high of a desire to interact face to face in person with friends again and thus view masks and social distancing efforts as "low cost" compared to everyone else. Even with that though there are still plenty left leaning users, myself included, who don't wear masks given the option.

And I thought that liberals, at least, were rational with regards to the pandemic. It seems as if the whole nation has collectively lost its mind and has thrown caution and safety to the winds. Luckily, I'm in that small percentage of mask-wearers and who social distance or stay home.

It appears the country is suffering from two pandemics simulataneously, each of which is helping fuel the other: COVID19 and idiocy/irrationality.

The whole point of the Vaccine is so we dont need to socially distance anymore .


Also number of hospitalizations matter more than number of cases

[Schiff for Senate]

The actual amount of "liberals" who want indefinite mask mandates and social restrictions are really low. A niche internet forum like this is bound to overrepresent introverted people who don't have as high of a desire to interact face to face in person with friends again and thus view masks and social distancing efforts as "low cost" compared to everyone else. Even with that though there are still plenty left leaning users, myself included, who don't wear masks given the option.

And I thought that liberals, at least, were rational with regards to the pandemic. It seems as if the whole nation has collectively lost its mind and has thrown caution and safety to the winds. Luckily, I'm in that small percentage of mask-wearers and who social distance or stay home.

It appears the country is suffering from two pandemics simulataneously, each of which is helping fuel the other: COVID19 and idiocy/irrationality.

The whole point of the Vaccine is so we dont need to socially distance anymore

I agree that was the point of the vaccine.

  But a delta variant has since emerged that transcends that purpose, and is reaching even the doubly-vaccinated. Masks are an added precaution to protect oneself from this variant, and social distancing is key.

  If you want, you can ignore the delta variant once you're vaccinated, pretend it doesn't exist, and then stop mask-wearing and social distancing. You'll be doing so at the risk of the health of yourself and your family, as well as other people whom you meet. I wouldn't necessarily support a mask mandate if by not wearing masks you're hurting only yourself, but not wearing masks can have  effects on even those who are wearing masks and have done their best to be careful and protect themselves and those around them.

 For instance, during the January 6 attack, the members of congress were all enclosed in a 'safe room' with little space (certainly not 6 feet between them all), and Democrats begged pigheaded Republicans to just wear masks for the duration of the attack. The selfish Republicans declined, even though Lisa Blunt Rochester (D-DE) offered them free masks, and soon, Democrats who'd tried their best to social distance all along were infected - Bonnie Watson Coleman (D-NJ), a senior citizen who had survived cancer, and Brad Schneider (D-IL), who was so worried that his family might get infected he'd driven from Illinois to Washington every day.
To put it another way, it's sort of like how people who smoke not only hurt themselves but can give non-smokers lung cancer from secondhand smoke.

  Yes, it's unfortunate that the delta variant is reaching even the vaccinated, but that's all the more reason to wear masks. And just because the delta variant is reaching the vaccinated isn't an argument to remain unvaccinated - if you're vaccinated, there's a way lower chance of getting COVID19. A strong correlation has been found between counties/areas with low vaccination rates and counties/areas with high case numbers, and between counties/areas with high vaccination rates and counties/areas with low case numbers. The vaccine can reduce the likelihood of getting COVID19 significantly, but unfortunately, it's becoming clearer that it can't always stop the COVID19 variant, so wear masks even if you're vaccinated. Get vaccinated and wear masks. Getting vaccinated and then not wearing masks is, in some ways, because you've done the big step (being vaccinated) and haven't done what's very easy to do (just putting on a surgical mask or two), and are still putting yourself and those around you at some risk of getting the deadly variant.

[Schiff for Senate]

I can never forgive the Democratic Party for the policies and ways they've conducted themselves throughout this pandemic. A lot of Republicans haven't been much better either. Every month or so since March 2020 I think to myself "they can't get any more unhinged, irrational, and authoritarian, can they" and they do.

Yes, their saving thousands of lives at the cost of forcing some stubborn, selfish people to wear surgical masks that take two seconds, literally, to put on (and which cost 10 cents or something apiece) is an unforgivable crime.

[Schiff for Senate]

Only 11% of the country still wear a mask. But that was before the recent wave of mask mandates so it may have gone up

That said, its clear liberals don't want to wear masks anymore than anyone else. Its just a very small percentage of twitter crazy DOOMERS who want to wear mask forever. Sometimes local officials like in LA and St. Louis are too accomandating of these people

I agree. It shouldn't be allowed for people to wear masks to keep themselves and those around them healthy!

[OSR stands with Israel]

The actual amount of "liberals" who want indefinite mask mandates and social restrictions are really low. A niche internet forum like this is bound to overrepresent introverted people who don't have as high of a desire to interact face to face in person with friends again and thus view masks and social distancing efforts as "low cost" compared to everyone else. Even with that though there are still plenty left leaning users, myself included, who don't wear masks given the option.

And I thought that liberals, at least, were rational with regards to the pandemic. It seems as if the whole nation has collectively lost its mind and has thrown caution and safety to the winds. Luckily, I'm in that small percentage of mask-wearers and who social distance or stay home.

It appears the country is suffering from two pandemics simulataneously, each of which is helping fuel the other: COVID19 and idiocy/irrationality.

The whole point of the Vaccine is so we dont need to socially distance anymore

  Yes, it's unfortunate that the delta variant is reaching even the vaccinated, but that's all the more reason to wear masks. And just because the delta variant is reaching the vaccinated isn't an argument to remain unvaccinated - if you're vaccinated, there's a way lower chance of getting COVID19. A strong correlation has been found between counties/areas with low vaccination rates and counties/areas with high case numbers, and between counties/areas with high vaccination rates and counties/areas with low case numbers. The vaccine can reduce the likelihood of getting COVID19 significantly, but unfortunately, it's becoming clearer that it can't always stop the COVID19 variant, so wear masks even if you're vaccinated. Get vaccinated and wear masks. Getting vaccinated and then not wearing masks is, in some ways, because you've done the big step (being vaccinated) and haven't done what's very easy to do (just putting on a surgical mask or two), and are still putting yourself and those around you at some risk of getting the deadly variant.

The number of hospitalizations matter far more than the number of cases as  Keep in mind the last time we had this many cases the number of hospitalizations was 3 times higher than it is now

[DabbingSanta]

Because they are insane.

This is a really a fault of the fake news media.  They've been doing so much fearmongering disguised as "fact based reporting" and a significant portion of Americans have bought into it.  There's also a portion of the auth-left which supports excessive government intervention, believing it will lead to a communist revolution of sorts.

I firmly believe this group will cause Democrats to lose a huge amount of support, especially if this is still ongoing leading up to 2024.  People are sick and tired of the mask cult and their nonsense.