Peruvian Elections and Politics: Boluarte era, political crisis continues

[LAKISYLVANIA]

I still don't understand this poll and the results

Peru, CPI poll:

"What kind of regime do you believe is the worst that could happen to the country?"

Chavista: 35%
Communist: 24%
Populist: 12%
Ultraliberal: 8%
Fascist: 5%
Ultraconservative: 4%

Unsure: 12%

Fieldwork: 6-11 March 2021
Sample: 1,300

[LAKISYLVANIA]

I support the protests in Peru. It's clear that Castillo was anticipating a coup with his self-coup and that removing Castillo from office on its own was a coup itself (even if i don't like Castillo myself).

https://twitter.com/DiegoEnLaLucha/status/1602132017767796738

Congress had to be suspended yesterday after a fight broke out.

It's clear that congress never accepted Castillo as a president in the first place. How can you lead a country if you ignore you have a president.

I don't support a government that kills protestors. Maybe y'all do but i don't.

https://www.infobae.com/america/peru/2022/12/11/asociacion-nacional-de-periodistas-del-peru-registro-ataques-contra-21-periodistas-desde-que-se-iniciaron-las-protestas/

Press freedom also under pressure by physical agression towards journalists.

I see that the "Biden should take credit for ousting Castillo" framing really is starting to age well. These are the same ones that would have supported Pinochet helicopter tours or Anez her coup.

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https://twitter.com/el_reportero/status/1602697398068944897

Presidents of Honduras and Mexico spoke out in defence of Castillo, refusing to recognize Dina Boluarte meanwhile.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

I support the protests in Peru. It's clear that Castillo was anticipating a coup with his self-coup and that removing Castillo from office on its own was a coup itself (even if i don't like Castillo myself).

 

Ousting Castillo from office wasn't legitimate and was a coup.

https://twitter.com/manolo_realengo/status/1602692451545845763

[LAKISYLVANIA]

I support the protests in Peru. It's clear that Castillo was anticipating a coup with his self-coup and that removing Castillo from office on its own was a coup itself (even if i don't like Castillo myself).

 

Ousting Castillo from office wasn't legitimate and was a coup.

https://twitter.com/manolo_realengo/status/1602692451545845763

How exactly was it a coup? Furthermore, was Castillo's attempt to close Congress and take control of the judiciary not a coup? or are some coups better than others.

Westerners who instinctively support autocrats just because they say leftist things reeks of noble savagery. It’s just a shade away from the obnoxious statements that come around ever so often that every protest against a leftist leader is financed by the CIA.

The current coup government is illegitimate. It is not elected by the people, there is zero involvement of Peruvian people in this gvment.

Current protests are in favour of Castillo (or against this government in particular) and it's clear that the coup by the government wasn't supported by the people.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

my understanding is that Peru's government set-up for impeachment is massively flawed, basically you can impeach any president for any stupid reason (kind of like USA), but they used bullsh**t reasons to do impeachments 6 times so far in the last few years, and theyve had 6 presidents in 6 years

so Castillo is an outsider and got in and congress blocked EVERYTHING he did, he even tried to compromise with them but they didn't care, and then they impeached him with bullsh**t reasoning. so basically his position is "you guys have been trying to do a coup against me this entire time, that's more of a coup than the coup I'm doing right now"

Western media and US propaganda of course framing it as a self coup. That's what is happening.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

“I support the protests in the United States. It's clear that Trump was anticipating a coup with his self-coup and that removing Trump from office on its own was a coup itself (even if i don't like Trump myself).”

And on the topic of the actual protests - what do they want? New elections? That’s already been announced. What’s left, freeing Castillo? Closing Congress and then…what, Boluarte or (god forbid) José Williams ruling by decree?

Very different:
- USA and Peru have different political traditions. There were 6 impeachments in Peru in 6 years time.
- Biden got elected and had a mandate of the people. This congress does not.
- Biden didn't use violence against journalists and murdered people in the pro-Trump protests.

very ironic that almost everyone here supports a coup government in the belief that they're supporting the democratic side. Peruvians right now are fighting for their democracy and Atlas is cheering for the autocrats.

There really is no comparison, and it is rather disgusting to see several left-wing South American governments close ranks without proper arguments.

AMLO is far from extreme, and had a good argument. You just ignore that argument. I would do the same, close ties with Peru and refuse to recognise Boluarte until she gets a mandate, which is after a free election, that is democratic and with Castillo eligible to run, without his campaign and supporters being harrassed and offended.

As long that doesn't happen, leave Peru, close embassy and sever diplomatic ties. Castillo currently is the legitimate president.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

https://www.as-coa.org/articles/primer-perus-pedro-castillo-impeached-after-attempting-dissolve-congress

On the morning after the impeachment, López Obrador said Castillo had been in contact with him for help. Mexico's Ambassador to Peru Pablo Monroy met with the detained Castillo on December 8 to discuss the possibility of the ousted leader gaining asylum in Mexico.

The foreign ministry of Colombia called for dialogue on the day of Castillo was impeached and condemned attacks on democracy, regardless of where they come from. But the next day, President Gustavo Petro tweeted a thread in which he said that, as a popular leader and former teacher, Castillo had been "cornered from his first day." He described Castillo's move to dissolve Congress in order to head off an impeachment as an error, but that anti-democratic moves can't be responded to with other anti-democratic moves. He later tweeted that the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights should take steps to protect Castillo.

On December 7, Luis Arce, president of Peru's neighbor Bolivia, tweeted: "From the beginning, the Peruvian right tried to overthrow a government that was democratically elected by the people, by the working class seeking more inclusion and social justice." The Honduran government called the impeachment of Castillo a coup.

President-elect of Brazil Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, meanwhile, expressed regret over Castillo's ouster but said lawmakers had followed constitutional order and wished Boluarte success in bringing her country back together. The Bolsonaro government described Castillo's actions as "incompatible" with Peru's Constitution. Argentina's President Alberto Fernández called on political actors to defend human rights and the Constitution but did not mention the coup. Chile's government also voiced regret, as well as confidence that a solution would be found through democratic means while "reaffirming its commitment to democracy and dialogue as the only path to overcoming this complex moment." The Spanish government issued a statement condemning the rupture of the constitutional order and congratulating the country for "reestablishing democratic norms."

This was from 8 december.

https://en.mercopress.com/2022/12/13/argentina-and-three-other-countries-take-diplomatic-turn-and-ask-for-castillo-s-restitution-in-peru

The governments of Colombia, Mexico, Argentina and Bolivia have changed their position regarding the political crisis in Peru, which worsened in the last days after the removal of former president Pedro Castillo from office by the Congress. The government of Alberto Fernandez supported in the last hours the former president, currently under arrest and requesting asylum in Mexico, after the Argentinean Foreign Ministry criticized Castillo for altering the “constitutional order” after attempting a self-coup in which he tried to dissolve the Parliament.

The four countries have signed a document urging Peru to honor the results of their presidential elections and therefore reinstate the deposed Castillo as President. The signatories also underlined that the impeached head of state had been a “victim of undemocratic harassment.”

Signing the document were Presidents Alberto Fernandez of Argentina, Gustavo Petro of Colombia, Andrés Manuel López Obrador of Mexico, and Bolivia's Luis Arce Catacora.

Argentina, Colombia, Bolivia and Mexico ask in a letter for Castillo's restitution.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Including, for example, hiding behind a supposed principle of "non-intervention" to avoid questioning or condemning Nicaragua and Venezuela, or his stance regarding the war in Ukraine.

What a world do we live in if refraining from direct confrontation today is controversial. Why is there even a war in the first place in 2022 in ukraine, think about that. If all we do for diplomacy is: "our way or the highway", then war sooner or later breaks out.

I do disagree with your approaches to diplomacy. I would've condemned the Russian invasion, but i do think it was avoidable with different actions in the past 3 decades. We've never committed to a peaceful world after the cold war. And that's not just Russia's or the third world or every non-western country's fault, it is at most and maybe most importantly our fault, because of pure negligence and arrogance.

Yes, Russia is most at fault for this war, but the trajectory of war and confrontation didn't start in 2022, it started long before that, and even before 2014.

This thread is another example of a repeated western attitude of disdain.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

The only Western attitude of disdain I see is when Westerners act like the Peruvian constitution doesn’t matter and that an incompetent loser should be their dictator.

Which is why the entire country is not functioning because people protest

But to you protesting is meaningless. You just ignore them.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Humala is expelled from her party.



One week into office, Peru’s new President Dina Boluarte battles to contain widespread protests

Peru’s new government declares police state amid protests

I suppose atlas loves police states

https://twitter.com/mrochabrun/status/1603090341128769536

[LAKISYLVANIA]

The only Western attitude of disdain I see is when Westerners act like the Peruvian constitution doesn’t matter and that an incompetent loser should be their dictator.

https://twitter.com/AmericaElige/status/1518704797666402305

https://twitter.com/manolo_realengo/status/1601806135748608000

https://twitter.com/AmericaElige/status/1537129470125125635

I think Peruvians side with me when it comes to "Peruvian constitution" deosn't matter. I'm pretty sure Peruvians side with me instead of some rando American who has no knowledge of Peru and pretends it's like the USA.

I suppose you also don't care about the 7 deaths during protests, most of them being minors. If it's Peruvians blood, it doesn't matter for you. That's how much you care about Peru.

You care more about owning someone on the internet than about human suffering.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Anyway, Boluarte has declared a nationwide state of emergency for 30 days. The rights to freedom of assembly, freedom of movement, and the inviolability of the home (ie search and seizure) have all been suspended.

Should tell you enough about who is the good and who is the bad side in this conflict.

Meanwhile, Castillo and Torres will have a hearing on 18 months of preventative prison for the crime of rebellion and conspiracy to commit rebellion.

How has Castillo started a rebellion, if he was in prison or locked up the entire time?

___

Castillo has failed, but this coup government is plain evil and need to be overthrown. We need immediate fair and democratic elections and constitutional change.

Apparently, AMLO, Fernandez, Arce and Petro all agree with me on this one. And Peruvians are fighting for their democracy, and I support them in that. It's time that Atlas lefties show what their true intentions are. So far the best takes i've seen about the conflict are from republican leaning and independent leaning voters on lokcord.

Impeachment procedures in the USA are different from those in Peru. They're already preparing the next one.

On 5 December 2022, just days before Congress was set to vote on impeaching Castillo, a constitutional complaint was filed by the Subcommittee on Constitutional Accusations against Vice President Dina Boluarte, alleging that she operated a private club while she was the Minister of Development. The allegations against Boluarte created the potential for the vice president to face controversy if Castillo were to be impeached.

And this is how impeachment works in Peru

Congress is dominated by right-wing parties opposed to Castillo, whom they attempted to impeach multiple times using political avenues. Due to broadly interpreted impeachment wording in the Constitution of Peru (1993), Congress can impeach the president on the vague grounds of "moral incapacity", effectively making the legislature more powerful than the executive branch.

People here are defending their case with the move was constitutional, but it should be pretty clear that the constitution does not work in Peru, and that the 1993 constitution by the Fujimori government needs to be overturned in order for the country to function again.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Boric and Lula do recognize Boluarte. Don't know about Ortega.

Boluarte and in particular congress are angry at Mexico and Colombia. And congress is gonna have a vote on censoring Mexico and calling AMLO persona non grata. Peru also is considering expelling diplomats of these four countries: Bolivia, Argentina, Mexico and Colombia.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/14/peru-state-emergency-pedro-castillo-protests

A 30 day national emergency has been declared, and curfew has been debated as well, which will hurt families who want to celebrate christmas. The economy is being hurt since a lot of the protests take place in a heavily mining-based district (copper and silver industry).

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Are people now going to defend a massacre

what is next: genocide denial?

[LAKISYLVANIA]

(trigger warning: footage ayacusco massacre)

https://twitter.com/WaykaPeru/status/1603843492647735309

The coup so many atlas people here support.

This is the regime you support

I hope you can sleep and watch in the mirror this evening

EDIT:

https://twitter.com/aftermathvids/status/1603886756377477120

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Meanwhile, education minister Patricia Correa has resigned in protest over escalating deaths as the military is called in to suppress the protests.

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/peru-ministers-resign-amid-deadly-protests/ar-AA15n9iF?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8f705badbc8045c68f623e5f9ff64145

culture minister also has resigned now.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

From what I've been reading, it failed due to several left and right-wing parties either abstaining or voting it down. Apparently, the justification from the left is that new elections must include a constituent assembly (and/or other lists of grievances), and from the right because they don't want to "cave to violence".

Does all feel a bit like a polity with a death wish by this point.

I'm sure in a country like Peru, Boluarte will not last long as president. That's the point we have been making. And secondly, it is not an excuse for using the military forces like that and shooting Peruvians like meat.

The UN has started an investigation on child violence

UN Committee Urges Peru to Probe Child Protest Violence

And she has not even been in power for 10 days, what a record already.

and all international media cares about is tourists being stranded in peru...

[LAKISYLVANIA]

pink and blue means support for boluarte, red means support for castillo

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https://twitter.com/democracynow/status/1603744546097352704

This Peruvian sociologist calls it "a coup within a coup"

The Sociologist says that if Boluarte resigns, the head of military would become president because he would be next in line since there's no VP in line because she's already president, so if Boluarte is impeached or resigned, the military has all power

José Williams would become president in that case

José Daniel Williams Zapata (born 9 November 1951) is a retired Peruvian Army general who led Operation Chavín de Huántar, a military operation that successfully ended the 1997 Japanese embassy hostage crisis. Serving as Chief of the Joint Command of the Armed Forces of Peru from 2005 to 2006, Williams currently represents the constituency of Lima in the Peruvian Congress as a member of Go on Country - Social Integration Party.

They're trying to get rid of Boluarte



Pressure increases and people have filed constitutional complaints which might start an impeachment procedure.

On 5 December 2022, just days before Congress was set to vote on impeaching Castillo, a constitutional complaint was filed by the Subcommittee on Constitutional Accusations against Vice President Dina Boluarte, alleging that she operated a private club while she was the Minister of Development. The allegations against Boluarte created the potential for the vice president to face controversy if Castillo were to be impeached.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

https://twitter.com/democracynow/status/1603744546097352704

This Peruvian sociologist calls it "a coup within a coup"

The Sociologist says that if Boluarte resigns, the head of military would become president because he would be next in line since there's no VP in line because she's already president, so if Boluarte is impeached or resigned, the military has all power

José Williams would become president in that case

José Daniel Williams Zapata (born 9 November 1951) is a retired Peruvian Army general who led Operation Chavín de Huántar, a military operation that successfully ended the 1997 Japanese embassy hostage crisis. Serving as Chief of the Joint Command of the Armed Forces of Peru from 2005 to 2006, Williams currently represents the constituency of Lima in the Peruvian Congress as a member of Go on Country - Social Integration Party.

They're trying to get rid of Boluarte



Pressure increases and people have filed constitutional complaints which might start an impeachment procedure.

If Boluarte leaves office and Williams becomes president (or someone else chosen by Congress, a la Sagasti) he’d have to call for new general elections immediately (Article 115 of the constitution).

which would be in the interest of the Fuerza Popular (Popular Force) party. I think they would vote in favour of impeaching Boluarte.

Anyways her position is very weak atm.

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I think you can say both that what Castillo tried to do with the autogolpe was bad and what’s happening now is bad.

This is the correct take.

I'm not sure why Laki is going to bat for Castillo being the best and apparently extremely popular (despite voting indicating otherwise) and comparing it to genocide denial.

You're twisting my words.

Castillo obviously is better than this sh**t. I acknowledge what he has done isn't perfect, but it's very clear he tried to prevent this sh**t and secondly no one died during his reign in protests.

The Ayacucho massacre was a massacre, and yes the entire forum is ignoring it, minimizing or it, defending like "Castillo would have done so as well", which is not a scientific comment.

So no, i disagree and like you do often you twist my opinion and a words in a way that suits you, but you say things i haven't said (deliberately), in an attempt to shut me down.

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https://twitter.com/AmericaElige/status/1604288975082070022

https://twitter.com/AmericaElige/status/1604270394856599552

https://twitter.com/AmericaElige/status/1604269064234598400

https://twitter.com/AmericaElige/status/1604267602356080640

[LAKISYLVANIA]

https://twitter.com/RodPerezOficial/status/1605582038790070273

[LAKISYLVANIA]

xx

I'm guessing the relatively high level of retrospective support for the autogolpe attempt is, uh, heavily informed by subsequent events.

"guessing".

In every Peru thread here, most of the posts at least have 1 "probably" or "guessing" word in them. People making conclusions without being informed of what's going on and their prejudices being conflicted with actual events.