Peruvian Elections and Politics: Boluarte era, political crisis continues

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

I do know this is news for you, but Congress was also an elected body.

[Lumine]

We can debate the merits of "moral incapacity" and its potential for abuse, but Congress hasn't done anything illegal or unconstitutional.

Castillo - who, lest we forget, has been blatantly and transparently corrupt - flagrantly tried to rip up the Constitution by taking actions that were nowhere near lawful. That it fell apart immediately is is no way grounds not to consider for what it is, an actual coup attempt.

There really is no comparison, and it is rather disgusting to see several left-wing South American governments close ranks without proper arguments.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

“I support the protests in the United States. It's clear that Trump was anticipating a coup with his self-coup and that removing Trump from office on its own was a coup itself (even if i don't like Trump myself).”

And on the topic of the actual protests - what do they want? New elections? That’s already been announced. What’s left, freeing Castillo? Closing Congress and then…what, Boluarte or (god forbid) José Williams ruling by decree?

Very different:
- USA and Peru have different political traditions. There were 6 impeachments in Peru in 6 years time.
- Biden got elected and had a mandate of the people. This congress does not.
- Biden didn't use violence against journalists and murdered people in the pro-Trump protests.

very ironic that almost everyone here supports a coup government in the belief that they're supporting the democratic side. Peruvians right now are fighting for their democracy and Atlas is cheering for the autocrats.

There really is no comparison, and it is rather disgusting to see several left-wing South American governments close ranks without proper arguments.

AMLO is far from extreme, and had a good argument. You just ignore that argument. I would do the same, close ties with Peru and refuse to recognise Boluarte until she gets a mandate, which is after a free election, that is democratic and with Castillo eligible to run, without his campaign and supporters being harrassed and offended.

As long that doesn't happen, leave Peru, close embassy and sever diplomatic ties. Castillo currently is the legitimate president.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

https://www.as-coa.org/articles/primer-perus-pedro-castillo-impeached-after-attempting-dissolve-congress

On the morning after the impeachment, López Obrador said Castillo had been in contact with him for help. Mexico's Ambassador to Peru Pablo Monroy met with the detained Castillo on December 8 to discuss the possibility of the ousted leader gaining asylum in Mexico.

The foreign ministry of Colombia called for dialogue on the day of Castillo was impeached and condemned attacks on democracy, regardless of where they come from. But the next day, President Gustavo Petro tweeted a thread in which he said that, as a popular leader and former teacher, Castillo had been "cornered from his first day." He described Castillo's move to dissolve Congress in order to head off an impeachment as an error, but that anti-democratic moves can't be responded to with other anti-democratic moves. He later tweeted that the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights should take steps to protect Castillo.

On December 7, Luis Arce, president of Peru's neighbor Bolivia, tweeted: "From the beginning, the Peruvian right tried to overthrow a government that was democratically elected by the people, by the working class seeking more inclusion and social justice." The Honduran government called the impeachment of Castillo a coup.

President-elect of Brazil Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, meanwhile, expressed regret over Castillo's ouster but said lawmakers had followed constitutional order and wished Boluarte success in bringing her country back together. The Bolsonaro government described Castillo's actions as "incompatible" with Peru's Constitution. Argentina's President Alberto Fernández called on political actors to defend human rights and the Constitution but did not mention the coup. Chile's government also voiced regret, as well as confidence that a solution would be found through democratic means while "reaffirming its commitment to democracy and dialogue as the only path to overcoming this complex moment." The Spanish government issued a statement condemning the rupture of the constitutional order and congratulating the country for "reestablishing democratic norms."

This was from 8 december.

https://en.mercopress.com/2022/12/13/argentina-and-three-other-countries-take-diplomatic-turn-and-ask-for-castillo-s-restitution-in-peru

The governments of Colombia, Mexico, Argentina and Bolivia have changed their position regarding the political crisis in Peru, which worsened in the last days after the removal of former president Pedro Castillo from office by the Congress. The government of Alberto Fernandez supported in the last hours the former president, currently under arrest and requesting asylum in Mexico, after the Argentinean Foreign Ministry criticized Castillo for altering the “constitutional order” after attempting a self-coup in which he tried to dissolve the Parliament.

The four countries have signed a document urging Peru to honor the results of their presidential elections and therefore reinstate the deposed Castillo as President. The signatories also underlined that the impeached head of state had been a “victim of undemocratic harassment.”

Signing the document were Presidents Alberto Fernandez of Argentina, Gustavo Petro of Colombia, Andrés Manuel López Obrador of Mexico, and Bolivia's Luis Arce Catacora.

Argentina, Colombia, Bolivia and Mexico ask in a letter for Castillo's restitution.

[Lumine]

Boularte is the Vice President, first in line per the constitution, and ascended into office when the previous incumbent was legally impeached from office. So I don't see how she's an illegitimate head of state, unless we're going with the - rather irresponsible - argument that being elected shields Castillo from the consequences of his actions.

As for the specific case of AMLO, he may indeed not be extreme, but his foreign policy approaches have often been highly questionable. Including, for example, hiding behind a supposed principle of "non-intervention" to avoid questioning or condemning Nicaragua and Venezuela, or his stance regarding the war in Ukraine.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

“Legitimacy is when you’re elected, and the more elected you are the more legitimacy you have. Unless you were elected Vice President or to Congress.”

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

https://twitter.com/VLADIMIR_CERRON/status/1602714238283399168?s=20&t=Tgn4BB...

Cerrón talking about “the rich who took down Castillo” as if his own brother and most of the PL caucus (and its offshoots) didn’t vote for the impeachment. Luckily everyone’s reactions to the coup, then and now, are preserved for the judgment of history.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Including, for example, hiding behind a supposed principle of "non-intervention" to avoid questioning or condemning Nicaragua and Venezuela, or his stance regarding the war in Ukraine.

What a world do we live in if refraining from direct confrontation today is controversial. Why is there even a war in the first place in 2022 in ukraine, think about that. If all we do for diplomacy is: "our way or the highway", then war sooner or later breaks out.

I do disagree with your approaches to diplomacy. I would've condemned the Russian invasion, but i do think it was avoidable with different actions in the past 3 decades. We've never committed to a peaceful world after the cold war. And that's not just Russia's or the third world or every non-western country's fault, it is at most and maybe most importantly our fault, because of pure negligence and arrogance.

Yes, Russia is most at fault for this war, but the trajectory of war and confrontation didn't start in 2022, it started long before that, and even before 2014.

This thread is another example of a repeated western attitude of disdain.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

The only Western attitude of disdain I see is when Westerners act like the Peruvian constitution doesn’t matter and that an incompetent loser should be their dictator.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

The only Western attitude of disdain I see is when Westerners act like the Peruvian constitution doesn’t matter and that an incompetent loser should be their dictator.

Which is why the entire country is not functioning because people protest

But to you protesting is meaningless. You just ignore them.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

The only Western attitude of disdain I see is when Westerners act like the Peruvian constitution doesn’t matter and that an incompetent loser should be their dictator.

Which is why the entire country is not functioning because people protest

But to you protesting is meaningless. You just ignore them.

People protested against Castillo because they thought he stole the election. What’s your point?

[Isaak]

The only Western attitude of disdain I see is when Westerners act like the Peruvian constitution doesn’t matter and that an incompetent loser should be their dictator.

But to you protesting is meaningless. You just ignore them.

Protesting in favor of a corrupt and incompetent wannabe putschist ist indeed meaningless.

One can only hope that people will learn their lesson someday – the more of an "outsider" your candidate is, the more of an irresponsible wacko he will turn out. This applies to both Western and non-Western nations.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Humala is expelled from her party.



One week into office, Peru’s new President Dina Boluarte battles to contain widespread protests

Peru’s new government declares police state amid protests

I suppose atlas loves police states

https://twitter.com/mrochabrun/status/1603090341128769536

[LAKISYLVANIA]

The only Western attitude of disdain I see is when Westerners act like the Peruvian constitution doesn’t matter and that an incompetent loser should be their dictator.

https://twitter.com/AmericaElige/status/1518704797666402305

https://twitter.com/manolo_realengo/status/1601806135748608000

https://twitter.com/AmericaElige/status/1537129470125125635

I think Peruvians side with me when it comes to "Peruvian constitution" deosn't matter. I'm pretty sure Peruvians side with me instead of some rando American who has no knowledge of Peru and pretends it's like the USA.

I suppose you also don't care about the 7 deaths during protests, most of them being minors. If it's Peruvians blood, it doesn't matter for you. That's how much you care about Peru.

You care more about owning someone on the internet than about human suffering.

[PSOL]

The new cabinet members are all austerity freaks and sellouts, so the same people that led to this crisis in the first place.

The vast majority of the politicians and civil officials in Peru should resign, as they’ve failed at meeting a basic right of the vast majority of the population in doing the best to maximize efficient and good living to the best it can be. Instead they are failing at serving the people at large.

Both the Peruvian economic elite, those deciding the current anti-human course, and the shopkeepers should also resign en masse and surrender their power for contributing to this crisis by putting short term greed over an efficient society.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

The only Western attitude of disdain I see is when Westerners act like the Peruvian constitution doesn’t matter and that an incompetent loser should be their dictator.

https://twitter.com/AmericaElige/status/1518704797666402305

https://twitter.com/manolo_realengo/status/1601806135748608000

https://twitter.com/AmericaElige/status/1537129470125125635

I think Peruvians side with me when it comes to "Peruvian constitution" deosn't matter. I'm pretty sure Peruvians side with me instead of some rando American who has no knowledge of Peru and pretends it's like the USA.

I suppose you also don't care about the 7 deaths during protests, most of them being minors. If it's Peruvians blood, it doesn't matter for you. That's how much you care about Peru.

You care more about owning someone on the internet than about human suffering.

Oh, please, spare me the tankie hysterics. I wanted Castillo to succeed. I wanted him to be a good president. I sympathize with the minors who have been killed (as indeed people were killed in protests under Castillo, Sagasti, etc).

But unlike some people I have zero tolerance for failed dictators and their supporters. I don’t care that the Lima elite was racist and classist towards him. I don’t care that Congress was trying to get him impeached even before he gave them countless valid reasons to do so. I don’t care that the people who are protesting see themselves in him. He tried to unilaterally dissolve Congress and take over the judiciary so he could rule by decree. He tried to usurp the law and the democracy that millions of people in Peru struggled for decades to build. I have no respect for him or for anyone who wants to restore him to power. I’m not going to condescend to the rural poor (as if they were universal in supporting him, which is false - look at the counterprotests in those same regions) by acting like their circumstances excuse their support of autocracy.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Anyway, Boluarte has declared a nationwide state of emergency for 30 days. The rights to freedom of assembly, freedom of movement, and the inviolability of the home (ie search and seizure) have all been suspended.

She’s also now saying that she’s open to moving elections forward to December of 2023. The Cusco regional government has called for dialogue between the cabinet and the various regional governments, ministerial presence in the most affected areas, and early elections with reforms to the electoral system.

Meanwhile, Castillo and Torres will have a hearing on 18 months of preventative prison for the crime of rebellion and conspiracy to commit rebellion.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Anyway, Boluarte has declared a nationwide state of emergency for 30 days. The rights to freedom of assembly, freedom of movement, and the inviolability of the home (ie search and seizure) have all been suspended.

Should tell you enough about who is the good and who is the bad side in this conflict.

Meanwhile, Castillo and Torres will have a hearing on 18 months of preventative prison for the crime of rebellion and conspiracy to commit rebellion.

How has Castillo started a rebellion, if he was in prison or locked up the entire time?

___

Castillo has failed, but this coup government is plain evil and need to be overthrown. We need immediate fair and democratic elections and constitutional change.

Apparently, AMLO, Fernandez, Arce and Petro all agree with me on this one. And Peruvians are fighting for their democracy, and I support them in that. It's time that Atlas lefties show what their true intentions are. So far the best takes i've seen about the conflict are from republican leaning and independent leaning voters on lokcord.

Impeachment procedures in the USA are different from those in Peru. They're already preparing the next one.

On 5 December 2022, just days before Congress was set to vote on impeaching Castillo, a constitutional complaint was filed by the Subcommittee on Constitutional Accusations against Vice President Dina Boluarte, alleging that she operated a private club while she was the Minister of Development. The allegations against Boluarte created the potential for the vice president to face controversy if Castillo were to be impeached.

And this is how impeachment works in Peru

Congress is dominated by right-wing parties opposed to Castillo, whom they attempted to impeach multiple times using political avenues. Due to broadly interpreted impeachment wording in the Constitution of Peru (1993), Congress can impeach the president on the vague grounds of "moral incapacity", effectively making the legislature more powerful than the executive branch.

People here are defending their case with the move was constitutional, but it should be pretty clear that the constitution does not work in Peru, and that the 1993 constitution by the Fujimori government needs to be overturned in order for the country to function again.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

This is besides the point but neoliberals and the military couping a far-left president who was also attempting a coup has to be the most LATAM politics thing ever.

[Edu]

A good rule of thumb is to take the opposite position that Alberto Fernandez takes. You are almost 100% going to be right every time lol

[Helsinkian]

The current coup government is illegitimate. It is not elected by the people, there is zero involvement of Peruvian people in this gvment.

Out of curiosity, do you think that Gerald Ford was an illegitimate president?

If the polls you shared regarding the people's views regarding the constitution are accurate, then I guess the Peruvian people will fill the next congress with people running on rewriting it, right? Then again, how did rewriting the constitution work out in Peru's southern neighbour...?

But anyway, what is so bad with the congress having the power to impeach the president for any reason? That's how it works in parliamentary systems with prime ministers who can be ejected by parliament at any time with a motion of no confidence. Latin America has long suffered from the strongmen brought about by the presidential system. If anything, more Latin American countries should move toward parliamentarianism.

[warandwar]

The only Western attitude of disdain I see is when Westerners act like the Peruvian constitution doesn’t matter and that an incompetent loser should be their dictator.

https://twitter.com/AmericaElige/status/1518704797666402305

https://twitter.com/manolo_realengo/status/1601806135748608000

https://twitter.com/AmericaElige/status/1537129470125125635

I think Peruvians side with me when it comes to "Peruvian constitution" deosn't matter. I'm pretty sure Peruvians side with me instead of some rando American who has no knowledge of Peru and pretends it's like the USA.

I suppose you also don't care about the 7 deaths during protests, most of them being minors. If it's Peruvians blood, it doesn't matter for you. That's how much you care about Peru.

You care more about owning someone on the internet than about human suffering.

Completely agree on all counts, Laki!

This whole case seems to prove the constitutional order to be completely broken in Peru. Pretty silly to meme about it when there's blood and spent cartridges in the street.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

If we're discussing democratic mandates, then it's worth recalling that Castillo polled 19% of the vote in the first round and won the runoff with a margin of 0.3pts. Enough to be the constitutionally and electorally legitimate President, certainly, but not enough to claim much of a mandate for radical political action let alone radical constitutional tinkering let alone an attempt to pull off an Autogolpe. I would suggest that the whole experience - and, frankly, the whole experience of Peruvian politics over the past few decades,* suggests that an Executive Presidency is not a good idea for the country.

_{*Every single elected President has ended up in prison or ought to have done: Garcia avoided it by topping himself like an Agatha Christie villain and Toledo has been trying to dodge it - but presumably will fail in the end as he lost that case last year - by hiding out in the United States.}

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Boric and Lula do recognize Boluarte. Don't know about Ortega.

Boluarte and in particular congress are angry at Mexico and Colombia. And congress is gonna have a vote on censoring Mexico and calling AMLO persona non grata. Peru also is considering expelling diplomats of these four countries: Bolivia, Argentina, Mexico and Colombia.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/14/peru-state-emergency-pedro-castillo-protests

A 30 day national emergency has been declared, and curfew has been debated as well, which will hurt families who want to celebrate christmas. The economy is being hurt since a lot of the protests take place in a heavily mining-based district (copper and silver industry).

[An American Tail: Fubart Goes West]

If we're discussing democratic mandates, then it's worth recalling that Castillo polled 19% of the vote in the first round and won the runoff with a margin of 0.3pts. Enough to be the constitutionally and electorally legitimate President, certainly, but not enough to claim much of a mandate for radical political action let alone radical constitutional tinkering let alone an attempt to pull off an Autogolpe. I would suggest that the whole experience - and, frankly, the whole experience of Peruvian politics over the past few decades,* suggests that an Executive Presidency is not a good idea for the country.

_{*Every single elected President has ended up in prison or ought to have done: Garcia avoided it by topping himself like an Agatha Christie villain and Toledo has been trying to dodge it - but presumably will fail in the end as he lost that case last year - by hiding out in the United States.}

I think that some of the issue is their top-two system. Castillo got about 19% and Keiko Fujimori got about 13.5%, then Peruvians got to pick and, as they did in the previous two elections, Keiko lost by under 1%. I wonder how it would’ve gone if there was an instant runoff system instead.

In a way, Peru’s politics are starting to remind me of Israel’s in the sense that there’s constant turnover, splintering coalitions/parties, and bare majorities either for or against a polarizing figure (Keiko Fujimori vs Bibi Netanyahu).