Dems/leaners: Should Biden drop out?

[MT Treasurer]

It won’t happen — the human condition (ego and pride > survival) won’t allow it. Like Trump, Biden is driven by his ego and the people who have been the most vocal in dismissing all warning signs and pushing for his candidacy (including on this forum) will not admit that they were in fact wrong all along because they have attached their views to their own egos. Biden could have "retired for health reasons" several months or arguably even weeks ago, but good luck with that when we get to New Hampshire.

It’s fun to watch — grab your popcorn (if you’re not a Democrat, that is — if you’re a Democrat, you can still hold out hope for a spectacular GOP implosion, a complete collapse in GOP turnout and/or a third-party candidate taking votes away from the GOP nominee).

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

The voters are deciding anyway. An inoffensive  generic D Congressman is running against Biden, and we'll actually get to know soon if Democratic voters really want to dump Biden or not.

But this is the wrong way to think about this.
Democratic voters don't want Biden to be defeated. That would be a repudiation of his administration and accomplishments.  They want him to declare victory and retire on top.

That's just supposition and assertion. There's no data supporting that idea that Democrats are having that particular thought process.

Personally I think it makes more sense to just dismiss the polls saying that 75% or whatever of Democrats don't want Biden to be the nominee than try to contrive a reason why they might really think that but still ultimately vote for him in colossal landslides anyway.

Or maybe I'm totally wrong, the polls are right, and Phillips will win or at least give Biden a scare. I kinda doubt it though.

You can’t “contrive” a reason why voters might want Biden to retire but also don’t want to instead vote for one of a bunch of weird randos?

Most Democrats like Biden.  Most of them haven’t heard of Dean Phillips, but most that have don’t like the negative message that Phillips is running against him. 

They also don’t want Biden to run again. If he didn’t run, the Dems would get several options far better than Dean Phillips.  It doesn’t seem that hard to understand.

[Woody]

Joe Biden should resign. He is the worst and most incompetent president in American history.

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

not if Newsom or Harris is the likely nominee, as seems to be the case.

[Beet]

Plenty of people want him to drop put, no one seems to want to advocate for a replacement. Harris and Newsom are both rather weak. Those that really want him gone if they are sincere need to come up with the alternative and fast.

A "replacement" should be chosen through the normal primary process, just like every election cycle without the incumbent running. I could easily list 6-8 stronger candidates off the top of my head (and have in other threads), but the voters should decide.

The voters will decide anyway. But if you have an active opinion that Biden should drop out and think it's important, then you should come up with an alternative. It is much harder to oppose something with nothing. If you want him out you need pressure, and there's not going to be sufficient pressure without a clear alternative.

[7,052,770]

You can’t “contrive” a reason why voters might want Biden to retire but also don’t want to instead vote for one of a bunch of weird randos?

Most Democrats like Biden.  Most of them haven’t heard of Dean Phillips, but most that have don’t like the negative message that Phillips is running against him. 

They also don’t want Biden to run again. If he didn’t run, the Dems would get several options far better than Dean Phillips.  It doesn’t seem that hard to understand.

If all of that is true, then Democrats don't really want a different candidate than Biden. Several polls have said that an overwhelming majority of Democratic voters want a "generic democrat" over Biden, and I can understand that doesn't mean they want a nut like Marianne Williamson over him, but Dean Phillips is not a "random weirdo" at all, but just a normal, inoffensive Congressman, someone who fits the "generic Democrat" label to a T as well as any of the 25+ candidates from 2020. If voters truly want a generic Democrat instead of Biden, they now have that opportunity.

Except I think we all know that Phillips is going to get like 5% in the contested primary, which is damning evidence that the polls are wrong and Democratic voters don't really want to replace Biden with someone else. (Or maybe I'm wrong and we'll find out that they do.) I think it's kinda to try to weave a narrative for both the upcoming Biden landslides results and also the polls to both be true with something like "welllllll, the voters do want someone other than Biden, but only if he drops out on his own (which, ok, he's not going to do unless he starts losing), but even though they want someone else, they won't actually vote for someone else!"

[dw93]

not if Newsom or Harris is the likely nominee, as seems to be the case.

This, and the it's now too late for Biden to drop out and have a normal primary and prevent Newsom or Harris from being the nominee. If someone like Whitmer, Cooper, Beshear, Walz, or even Pritzker had a shot at being the nominee in the event that Biden were to decline to seek re election, I'd be okay with him dropping out, but with Newsom or Harris as the alternatives at this point, I'd rather take my chances with Biden, and for all of you saying the Democrats should run "anyone," give me one good reason Harris or Newsom would be stronger than Biden that isn't age.

[All Along The Watchtower]

No and I really wish people would stop making these threads and start thinking things through for at least a few seconds.

[emailking]

Definitely not. He's been an incredible President.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Plenty of people want him to drop put, no one seems to want to advocate for a replacement. Harris and Newsom are both rather weak. Those that really want him gone if they are sincere need to come up with the alternative and fast.

A "replacement" should be chosen through the normal primary process, just like every election cycle without the incumbent running. I could easily list 6-8 stronger candidates off the top of my head (and have in other threads), but the voters should decide.

The voters will decide anyway. But if you have an active opinion that Biden should drop out and think it's important, then you should come up with an alternative. It is much harder to oppose something with nothing. If you want him out you need pressure, and there's not going to be sufficient pressure without a clear alternative.

Any of the following (and I’m sure several more if I thought a little harder):
- Wes Moore
- Steve Beshear
- Tammy Duckworth
- Raphael Warnock
- Mark Kelly
- Wes Moore
- Gretchen Whitmer
- Jared Polis
- Josh Shapiro

[cherry mandarin]

Any of the following (and I’m sure several more as well, if I just thought a little harder):
- Wes Moore
- Steve Beshear
- Wes Moore

Lol. Also, Biden's a couple of years older than even the elderly Beshear ...

[PSOL]

Plenty of people want him to drop put, no one seems to want to advocate for a replacement. Harris and Newsom are both rather weak. Those that really want him gone if they are sincere need to come up with the alternative and fast.

A "replacement" should be chosen through the normal primary process, just like every election cycle without the incumbent running. I could easily list 6-8 stronger candidates off the top of my head (and have in other threads), but the voters should decide.

The voters will decide anyway. But if you have an active opinion that Biden should drop out and think it's important, then you should come up with an alternative. It is much harder to oppose something with nothing. If you want him out you need pressure, and there's not going to be sufficient pressure without a clear alternative.

Any of the following (and I’m sure several more if I thought a little harder):
- Wes Moore
- Steve Beshear
- Tammy Duckworth
- Raphael Warnock
- Mark Kelly
- Wes Moore
- Gretchen Whitmer
- Jared Polis
- Josh Shapiro

Why any of these people would risk their future careers as a sacrificial lamb candidate is beyond me, and Democrats poisoning the well when these people are still needed in their current role or to be used elsewhere is suicidal.

Biden is the candidate chosen to deal with the Trump question in 2020, he's the least risk option at this point unless you want to appear even weaker downballot. If you want, you can find some sacrificial lamb to be brought in during a brokered convention–Laura Kelly seems doable as an inoffensive candidate–but be prepared to deal with the consequences of it turning into a media circus because it will be a general s•••show.

[S019]

His polling is bad enough that he should, but realistically it would be hard to pull off now that he has declared without massively damaging his and the Democratic party's credibility. He should've just stuck to his original plans and passed the torch to Harris, but now it'd be hard to pull off.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Any of the following (and I’m sure several more as well, if I just thought a little harder):
- Wes Moore
- Steve Beshear
- Wes Moore

Lol. Also, Biden's a couple of years older than even the elderly Beshear ...

Yeah, that was a brain fart on my part, though I’m curious why you quoted Moore twice.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Plenty of people want him to drop put, no one seems to want to advocate for a replacement. Harris and Newsom are both rather weak. Those that really want him gone if they are sincere need to come up with the alternative and fast.

A "replacement" should be chosen through the normal primary process, just like every election cycle without the incumbent running. I could easily list 6-8 stronger candidates off the top of my head (and have in other threads), but the voters should decide.

The voters will decide anyway. But if you have an active opinion that Biden should drop out and think it's important, then you should come up with an alternative. It is much harder to oppose something with nothing. If you want him out you need pressure, and there's not going to be sufficient pressure without a clear alternative.

Any of the following (and I’m sure several more if I thought a little harder):
- Wes Moore
- Steve Beshear
- Tammy Duckworth
- Raphael Warnock
- Mark Kelly
- Wes Moore
- Gretchen Whitmer
- Jared Polis
- Josh Shapiro

Why any of these people would risk their future careers as a sacrificial lamb candidate is beyond me, and Democrats poisoning the well when these people are still needed in their current role or to be used elsewhere is suicidal.

Biden is the candidate chosen to deal with the Trump question in 2020, he's the least risk option at this point unless you want to appear even weaker downballot. If you want, you can find some sacrificial lamb to be brought in during a brokered convention–Laura Kelly seems doable as an inoffensive candidate–but be prepared to deal with the consequences of it turning into a media circus because it will be a general s•••show.

I’m absolutely not saying any of these people should run -against- Biden.  I’m saying they are stronger alternatives if Biden retires.

[PSOL]

Actually doing the research, Laura Kelly is term limited for the next race for Governor and is less risky of damning Democratic chances in 2028. She'd be a perfect sacrificial lamb candidate instead of Whitmer, who Democrats need for the primaries for the next presidential election.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

No, look at the Iowa poll I just posted if we win Iowa Fink for sure is gonna run against Ernst

[RussFeingoldWasRobbed]

His polling is bad enough that he should, but realistically it would be hard to pull off now that he has declared without massively damaging his and the Democratic party's credibility. He should've just stuck to his original plans and passed the torch to Harris, but now it'd be hard to pull off.

We'd still be better off than if he is the nominee. I swear to god

[7,052,770]

Plenty of people want him to drop put, no one seems to want to advocate for a replacement. Harris and Newsom are both rather weak. Those that really want him gone if they are sincere need to come up with the alternative and fast.

A "replacement" should be chosen through the normal primary process, just like every election cycle without the incumbent running. I could easily list 6-8 stronger candidates off the top of my head (and have in other threads), but the voters should decide.

The voters will decide anyway. But if you have an active opinion that Biden should drop out and think it's important, then you should come up with an alternative. It is much harder to oppose something with nothing. If you want him out you need pressure, and there's not going to be sufficient pressure without a clear alternative.

Any of the following (and I’m sure several more if I thought a little harder):
- Wes Moore
- Steve Beshear
- Tammy Duckworth
- Raphael Warnock
- Mark Kelly
- Wes Moore
- Gretchen Whitmer
- Jared Polis
- Josh Shapiro

Why any of these people would risk their future careers as a sacrificial lamb candidate is beyond me, and Democrats poisoning the well when these people are still needed in their current role or to be used elsewhere is suicidal.

Biden is the candidate chosen to deal with the Trump question in 2020, he's the least risk option at this point unless you want to appear even weaker downballot. If you want, you can find some sacrificial lamb to be brought in during a brokered convention–Laura Kelly seems doable as an inoffensive candidate–but be prepared to deal with the consequences of it turning into a media circus because it will be a general s•••show.

I’m absolutely not saying any of these people should run -against- Biden.  I’m saying they are stronger alternatives if Biden retires.

If 75% or whatever of Democratic voters actually want a different candidate than Biden, these candidates shouldn't be afraid of running against him. The fact that nobody but Dean Phillips is willing to do so tells me that none of those guys really believe that Biden's situation is so dire.

[RussFeingoldWasRobbed]

Plenty of people want him to drop put, no one seems to want to advocate for a replacement. Harris and Newsom are both rather weak. Those that really want him gone if they are sincere need to come up with the alternative and fast.

A "replacement" should be chosen through the normal primary process, just like every election cycle without the incumbent running. I could easily list 6-8 stronger candidates off the top of my head (and have in other threads), but the voters should decide.

The voters will decide anyway. But if you have an active opinion that Biden should drop out and think it's important, then you should come up with an alternative. It is much harder to oppose something with nothing. If you want him out you need pressure, and there's not going to be sufficient pressure without a clear alternative.

Any of the following (and I’m sure several more if I thought a little harder):
- Wes Moore
- Steve Beshear
- Tammy Duckworth
- Raphael Warnock
- Mark Kelly
- Wes Moore
- Gretchen Whitmer
- Jared Polis
- Josh Shapiro

Why any of these people would risk their future careers as a sacrificial lamb candidate is beyond me, and Democrats poisoning the well when these people are still needed in their current role or to be used elsewhere is suicidal.

Biden is the candidate chosen to deal with the Trump question in 2020, he's the least risk option at this point unless you want to appear even weaker downballot. If you want, you can find some sacrificial lamb to be brought in during a brokered convention–Laura Kelly seems doable as an inoffensive candidate–but be prepared to deal with the consequences of it turning into a media circus because it will be a general s•••show.

I’m absolutely not saying any of these people should run -against- Biden.  I’m saying they are stronger alternatives if Biden retires.

If 75% or whatever of Democratic voters actually want a different candidate than Biden, these candidates shouldn't be afraid of running against him. The fact that nobody but Dean Phillips is willing to do so tells me that none of those guys really believe that Biden's situation is so dire.

No one said democratic voters were in touch with reality. The reality is we are doomed if we don't run someone else. Period. You can put your fingers in your ears and cry about ageism and how unfair it is but reality is reality. Biden is unpopular, he's damaged beyond belief and we need to pass the torch to anybody else. Whitmer, Beshear, and again, even Newsom or Harris would be better at this point!

[Person Man]

I’d be open to it but I doubt it would make things materially better. Maybe it would give a clear sign that we are triaging the WH and need to Congress as a check on Trump and his alt-right agenda.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

I just posted some good polls in IA and AZ and we have Biden +8

[7,052,770]

Plenty of people want him to drop put, no one seems to want to advocate for a replacement. Harris and Newsom are both rather weak. Those that really want him gone if they are sincere need to come up with the alternative and fast.

A "replacement" should be chosen through the normal primary process, just like every election cycle without the incumbent running. I could easily list 6-8 stronger candidates off the top of my head (and have in other threads), but the voters should decide.

The voters will decide anyway. But if you have an active opinion that Biden should drop out and think it's important, then you should come up with an alternative. It is much harder to oppose something with nothing. If you want him out you need pressure, and there's not going to be sufficient pressure without a clear alternative.

Any of the following (and I’m sure several more if I thought a little harder):
- Wes Moore
- Steve Beshear
- Tammy Duckworth
- Raphael Warnock
- Mark Kelly
- Wes Moore
- Gretchen Whitmer
- Jared Polis
- Josh Shapiro

Why any of these people would risk their future careers as a sacrificial lamb candidate is beyond me, and Democrats poisoning the well when these people are still needed in their current role or to be used elsewhere is suicidal.

Biden is the candidate chosen to deal with the Trump question in 2020, he's the least risk option at this point unless you want to appear even weaker downballot. If you want, you can find some sacrificial lamb to be brought in during a brokered convention–Laura Kelly seems doable as an inoffensive candidate–but be prepared to deal with the consequences of it turning into a media circus because it will be a general s•••show.

I’m absolutely not saying any of these people should run -against- Biden.  I’m saying they are stronger alternatives if Biden retires.

If 75% or whatever of Democratic voters actually want a different candidate than Biden, these candidates shouldn't be afraid of running against him. The fact that nobody but Dean Phillips is willing to do so tells me that none of those guys really believe that Biden's situation is so dire.

No one said democratic voters were in touch with reality. The reality is we are doomed if we don't run someone else. Period. You can put your fingers in your ears and cry about ageism and how unfair it is but reality is reality. Biden is unpopular, he's damaged beyond belief and we need to pass the torch to anybody else. Whitmer, Beshear, and again, even Newsom or Harris would be better at this point!

If all these polls are true, Newsom should jump in today. He'd be the favorite for the nomination and could probably clinch it before the halfway point.

[Sir Mohamed]

Plenty of people want him to drop put, no one seems to want to advocate for a replacement. Harris and Newsom are both rather weak. Those that really want him gone if they are sincere need to come up with the alternative and fast.

A "replacement" should be chosen through the normal primary process, just like every election cycle without the incumbent running. I could easily list 6-8 stronger candidates off the top of my head (and have in other threads), but the voters should decide.

The voters will decide anyway. But if you have an active opinion that Biden should drop out and think it's important, then you should come up with an alternative. It is much harder to oppose something with nothing. If you want him out you need pressure, and there's not going to be sufficient pressure without a clear alternative.

Any of the following (and I’m sure several more if I thought a little harder):
- Wes Moore
- Steve Beshear
- Tammy Duckworth
- Raphael Warnock
- Mark Kelly
- Wes Moore
- Gretchen Whitmer
- Jared Polis
- Josh Shapiro

Why any of these people would risk their future careers as a sacrificial lamb candidate is beyond me, and Democrats poisoning the well when these people are still needed in their current role or to be used elsewhere is suicidal.

Biden is the candidate chosen to deal with the Trump question in 2020, he's the least risk option at this point unless you want to appear even weaker downballot. If you want, you can find some sacrificial lamb to be brought in during a brokered convention–Laura Kelly seems doable as an inoffensive candidate–but be prepared to deal with the consequences of it turning into a media circus because it will be a general s•••show.

I’m absolutely not saying any of these people should run -against- Biden.  I’m saying they are stronger alternatives if Biden retires.

If 75% or whatever of Democratic voters actually want a different candidate than Biden, these candidates shouldn't be afraid of running against him. The fact that nobody but Dean Phillips is willing to do so tells me that none of those guys really believe that Biden's situation is so dire.

No one said democratic voters were in touch with reality. The reality is we are doomed if we don't run someone else. Period. You can put your fingers in your ears and cry about ageism and how unfair it is but reality is reality. Biden is unpopular, he's damaged beyond belief and we need to pass the torch to anybody else. Whitmer, Beshear, and again, even Newsom or Harris would be better at this point!

If all these polls are true, Newsom should jump in today. He'd be the favorite for the nomination and could probably clinch it before the halfway point.

Not sure he would win enough black support in a primary against Harris. Newsom would be a formidable GE candidate though, especially since he's charismatic and a good messager.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Plenty of people want him to drop put, no one seems to want to advocate for a replacement. Harris and Newsom are both rather weak. Those that really want him gone if they are sincere need to come up with the alternative and fast.

A "replacement" should be chosen through the normal primary process, just like every election cycle without the incumbent running. I could easily list 6-8 stronger candidates off the top of my head (and have in other threads), but the voters should decide.

The voters will decide anyway. But if you have an active opinion that Biden should drop out and think it's important, then you should come up with an alternative. It is much harder to oppose something with nothing. If you want him out you need pressure, and there's not going to be sufficient pressure without a clear alternative.

Any of the following (and I’m sure several more if I thought a little harder):
- Wes Moore
- Steve Beshear
- Tammy Duckworth
- Raphael Warnock
- Mark Kelly
- Wes Moore
- Gretchen Whitmer
- Jared Polis
- Josh Shapiro

Why any of these people would risk their future careers as a sacrificial lamb candidate is beyond me, and Democrats poisoning the well when these people are still needed in their current role or to be used elsewhere is suicidal.

Biden is the candidate chosen to deal with the Trump question in 2020, he's the least risk option at this point unless you want to appear even weaker downballot. If you want, you can find some sacrificial lamb to be brought in during a brokered convention–Laura Kelly seems doable as an inoffensive candidate–but be prepared to deal with the consequences of it turning into a media circus because it will be a general s•••show.

I’m absolutely not saying any of these people should run -against- Biden.  I’m saying they are stronger alternatives if Biden retires.

If 75% or whatever of Democratic voters actually want a different candidate than Biden, these candidates shouldn't be afraid of running against him. The fact that nobody but Dean Phillips is willing to do so tells me that none of those guys really believe that Biden's situation is so dire.

No one said democratic voters were in touch with reality. The reality is we are doomed if we don't run someone else. Period. You can put your fingers in your ears and cry about ageism and how unfair it is but reality is reality. Biden is unpopular, he's damaged beyond belief and we need to pass the torch to anybody else. Whitmer, Beshear, and again, even Newsom or Harris would be better at this point!

I've posted in other threads about why it is not possible for another Dem to run against Biden.
Biden has been a very good president, and most Democrats believe this.  The only reason he shouldn't be the nominee is that he is too old.

But you just can't run a campaign on this message.  You simply can't run an ad saying "My opponent has been a great president, and I agree with him on everything.  But he's probably going to die soon, so vote for me!"

A lot of Democratic voters agree with the sentiment in the back of their minds.  But you can't say it in a campaign.  It's just too morbid and would immediate turn off voters for speaking the unspeakable out loud.  It's something that Biden needs to come to terms with himself, and it's really disheartening given his long career of terrific public service that he apparently isn't willing to do it.