Israel-Gaza war

[Vosem]

Let's stop beating around the bushes and say the obvious:

Hamas has won!

Hamas knows that it can't beat Israel militarily, so it baited Israel into committing genocide for the entire world to see.

Israel is now more isolated than ever and every terrorist killed will be replaced with 10 new ones.

But the whole world united around supporting Israel, including even Arab countries behind the scenes; Hamas leaders are being forced into fleeing Qatar and they've been unable to push back on Israeli advances in Gaza.

How is Israel not achieving all of its objectives? Hell, over the past two months, the two large democracies which replaced their leaders have both picked completely new parties running on support for Israel as a major part of their platform (Wilders, in particular, is much more extreme on the issue than the mainstream Israeli right).

The whole world rallied around Israel after October 7, but all that goodwill dissipated when Israel went full genocidal for the entire world to see.

But it didn't. The Arab countries and European countries are still pushing for Israel to continue the campaign. They've gotten the Republicans and Democrats to compromise on long-standing controversies (like the border) so that they can fund the Israeli war effort.

Oh no!

I remember when we discussed the Nakba, pppolitics, you asked me what I would think 'next', only for me to point out that I've been writing the same things on this topic for over a decade. My honest answer is that I've become more hostile to UN-run 'refugee' agencies, which too often end up encouraging the worst actors to continue genocidal conflicts (this has happened at least twice, with the UNRWA and MONUSCO). We need to become much more serious about enforcing criminal penalties on Western individuals and organizations who send 'aid' to places where it is certain to be intercepted by terrorist organizations. (Frankly the leaders of Amnesty International, like those of Hamas, should hang: it is their actions which guarantee that conflicts will keep generating organizations like Hamas and the FDLR. We will not be free of them until these organizations are also forcibly disbanded.)

[Vosem]

Let's stop beating around the bushes and say the obvious:

Hamas has won!

Hamas knows that it can't beat Israel militarily, so it baited Israel into committing genocide for the entire world to see.

Israel is now more isolated than ever and every terrorist killed will be replaced with 10 new ones.

But the whole world united around supporting Israel, including even Arab countries behind the scenes; Hamas leaders are being forced into fleeing Qatar and they've been unable to push back on Israeli advances in Gaza.

How is Israel not achieving all of its objectives? Hell, over the past two months, the two large democracies which replaced their leaders have both picked completely new parties running on support for Israel as a major part of their platform (Wilders, in particular, is much more extreme on the issue than the mainstream Israeli right).

The whole world rallied around Israel after October 7, but all that goodwill dissipated when Israel went full genocidal for the entire world to see.

But it didn't. The Arab countries and European countries are still pushing for Israel to continue the campaign. They've gotten the Republicans and Democrats to compromise on long-standing controversies (like the border) so that they can fund the Israeli war effort.

Oh no!

I remember when we discussed the Nakba, pppolitics, you asked me what I would think 'next', only for me to point out that I've been writing the same things on this topic for over a decade. My honest answer is that I've become more hostile to UN-run 'refugee' agencies, which too often end up encouraging the worst actors to continue genocidal conflicts (this has happened at least twice, with the UNRWA and MONUSCO). We need to become much more serious about enforcing criminal penalties on Western individuals and organizations who send 'aid' to places where it is certain to be intercepted by terrorist organizations. (Frankly the leaders of Amnesty International, like those of Hamas, should hang: it is their actions which guarantee that conflicts will keep generating organizations like Hamas and the FDLR. We will not be free of them until these organizations are also forcibly disbanded.)

Anyway, glory to the IDF and M23, standing up to the UN.

[pppolitics]

Let's stop beating around the bushes and say the obvious:

Hamas has won!

Hamas knows that it can't beat Israel militarily, so it baited Israel into committing genocide for the entire world to see.

Israel is now more isolated than ever and every terrorist killed will be replaced with 10 new ones.

But the whole world united around supporting Israel, including even Arab countries behind the scenes; Hamas leaders are being forced into fleeing Qatar and they've been unable to push back on Israeli advances in Gaza.

How is Israel not achieving all of its objectives? Hell, over the past two months, the two large democracies which replaced their leaders have both picked completely new parties running on support for Israel as a major part of their platform (Wilders, in particular, is much more extreme on the issue than the mainstream Israeli right).

The whole world rallied around Israel after October 7, but all that goodwill dissipated when Israel went full genocidal for the entire world to see.

But it didn't. The Arab countries and European countries are still pushing for Israel to continue the campaign. They've gotten the Republicans and Democrats to compromise on long-standing controversies (like the border) so that they can fund the Israeli war effort.

Oh no!

I remember when we discussed the Nakba, pppolitics, you asked me what I would think 'next', only for me to point out that I've been writing the same things on this topic for over a decade. My honest answer is that I've become more hostile to UN-run 'refugee' agencies, which too often end up encouraging the worst actors to continue genocidal conflicts (this has happened at least twice, with the UNRWA and MONUSCO). We need to become much more serious about enforcing criminal penalties on Western individuals and organizations who send 'aid' to places where it is certain to be intercepted by terrorist organizations. (Frankly the leaders of Amnesty International, like those of Hamas, should hang: it is their actions which guarantee that conflicts will keep generating organizations like Hamas and the FDLR. We will not be free of them until these organizations are also forcibly disbanded.)

How Israel Secretly Propped Up Hamas

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

[Vosem]

Let's stop beating around the bushes and say the obvious:

Hamas has won!

Hamas knows that it can't beat Israel militarily, so it baited Israel into committing genocide for the entire world to see.

Israel is now more isolated than ever and every terrorist killed will be replaced with 10 new ones.

But the whole world united around supporting Israel, including even Arab countries behind the scenes; Hamas leaders are being forced into fleeing Qatar and they've been unable to push back on Israeli advances in Gaza.

How is Israel not achieving all of its objectives? Hell, over the past two months, the two large democracies which replaced their leaders have both picked completely new parties running on support for Israel as a major part of their platform (Wilders, in particular, is much more extreme on the issue than the mainstream Israeli right).

The whole world rallied around Israel after October 7, but all that goodwill dissipated when Israel went full genocidal for the entire world to see.

But it didn't. The Arab countries and European countries are still pushing for Israel to continue the campaign. They've gotten the Republicans and Democrats to compromise on long-standing controversies (like the border) so that they can fund the Israeli war effort.

Oh no!

I remember when we discussed the Nakba, pppolitics, you asked me what I would think 'next', only for me to point out that I've been writing the same things on this topic for over a decade. My honest answer is that I've become more hostile to UN-run 'refugee' agencies, which too often end up encouraging the worst actors to continue genocidal conflicts (this has happened at least twice, with the UNRWA and MONUSCO). We need to become much more serious about enforcing criminal penalties on Western individuals and organizations who send 'aid' to places where it is certain to be intercepted by terrorist organizations. (Frankly the leaders of Amnesty International, like those of Hamas, should hang: it is their actions which guarantee that conflicts will keep generating organizations like Hamas and the FDLR. We will not be free of them until these organizations are also forcibly disbanded.)

How Israel Secretly Propped Up Hamas

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

It is bad that Israel did that. Maybe it means that someone other than Israel should be bombing Gaza. It doesn't mean that Gaza shouldn't be bombed.

I don't want to defend every aspect of the Israeli state. What I am saying is that for someone to attack Gaza, basically the way it is being attacked now, is morally obligatory, and in a perfect world more countries would actively participate in it.

[pppolitics]

Let's stop beating around the bushes and say the obvious:

Hamas has won!

Hamas knows that it can't beat Israel militarily, so it baited Israel into committing genocide for the entire world to see.

Israel is now more isolated than ever and every terrorist killed will be replaced with 10 new ones.

But the whole world united around supporting Israel, including even Arab countries behind the scenes; Hamas leaders are being forced into fleeing Qatar and they've been unable to push back on Israeli advances in Gaza.

How is Israel not achieving all of its objectives? Hell, over the past two months, the two large democracies which replaced their leaders have both picked completely new parties running on support for Israel as a major part of their platform (Wilders, in particular, is much more extreme on the issue than the mainstream Israeli right).

The whole world rallied around Israel after October 7, but all that goodwill dissipated when Israel went full genocidal for the entire world to see.

But it didn't. The Arab countries and European countries are still pushing for Israel to continue the campaign. They've gotten the Republicans and Democrats to compromise on long-standing controversies (like the border) so that they can fund the Israeli war effort.

Oh no!

I remember when we discussed the Nakba, pppolitics, you asked me what I would think 'next', only for me to point out that I've been writing the same things on this topic for over a decade. My honest answer is that I've become more hostile to UN-run 'refugee' agencies, which too often end up encouraging the worst actors to continue genocidal conflicts (this has happened at least twice, with the UNRWA and MONUSCO). We need to become much more serious about enforcing criminal penalties on Western individuals and organizations who send 'aid' to places where it is certain to be intercepted by terrorist organizations. (Frankly the leaders of Amnesty International, like those of Hamas, should hang: it is their actions which guarantee that conflicts will keep generating organizations like Hamas and the FDLR. We will not be free of them until these organizations are also forcibly disbanded.)

How Israel Secretly Propped Up Hamas

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

It is bad that Israel did that. Maybe it means that someone other than Israel should be bombing Gaza. It doesn't mean that Gaza shouldn't be bombed.

I don't want to defend every aspect of the Israeli state. What I am saying is that for someone to attack Gaza, basically the way it is being attacked now, is morally obligatory, and in a perfect world more countries would actively participate in it.

Nakba wouldn't have happened "in a perfect world".

[Vosem]

Let's stop beating around the bushes and say the obvious:

Hamas has won!

Hamas knows that it can't beat Israel militarily, so it baited Israel into committing genocide for the entire world to see.

Israel is now more isolated than ever and every terrorist killed will be replaced with 10 new ones.

But the whole world united around supporting Israel, including even Arab countries behind the scenes; Hamas leaders are being forced into fleeing Qatar and they've been unable to push back on Israeli advances in Gaza.

How is Israel not achieving all of its objectives? Hell, over the past two months, the two large democracies which replaced their leaders have both picked completely new parties running on support for Israel as a major part of their platform (Wilders, in particular, is much more extreme on the issue than the mainstream Israeli right).

The whole world rallied around Israel after October 7, but all that goodwill dissipated when Israel went full genocidal for the entire world to see.

But it didn't. The Arab countries and European countries are still pushing for Israel to continue the campaign. They've gotten the Republicans and Democrats to compromise on long-standing controversies (like the border) so that they can fund the Israeli war effort.

Oh no!

I remember when we discussed the Nakba, pppolitics, you asked me what I would think 'next', only for me to point out that I've been writing the same things on this topic for over a decade. My honest answer is that I've become more hostile to UN-run 'refugee' agencies, which too often end up encouraging the worst actors to continue genocidal conflicts (this has happened at least twice, with the UNRWA and MONUSCO). We need to become much more serious about enforcing criminal penalties on Western individuals and organizations who send 'aid' to places where it is certain to be intercepted by terrorist organizations. (Frankly the leaders of Amnesty International, like those of Hamas, should hang: it is their actions which guarantee that conflicts will keep generating organizations like Hamas and the FDLR. We will not be free of them until these organizations are also forcibly disbanded.)

How Israel Secretly Propped Up Hamas

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

It is bad that Israel did that. Maybe it means that someone other than Israel should be bombing Gaza. It doesn't mean that Gaza shouldn't be bombed.

I don't want to defend every aspect of the Israeli state. What I am saying is that for someone to attack Gaza, basically the way it is being attacked now, is morally obligatory, and in a perfect world more countries would actively participate in it.

Nakba wouldn't have happened "in a perfect world".

Yes, in a perfect world Zionist immigration would've been welcomed, or fought politically, and not fought with arms and ethnic riots.

(One kind of wants to say that in a perfect world there would be no wars at all, but I kind of wonder if that's not like saying that in a perfect world there would be no crime -- the things it would take to enforce that are dystopian. Certainly the justifications for this war are questioned primarily by racists and fools.)

[Reactionary Libertarian]

This Christmas season, don't just think about Bethlehem 2,023 years ago but think about it being under tyrannical foreign rule right now.
‘Without work and hope’: Bethlehem’s Christmas economy bleeds from Gaza war

The PA's rule may be tyrannical but I'm not sure you can describe it as foreign.

Gosh you're delusional if you think the PA are sovereign anywhere in Palestine.

I don't see how anyone can deny that the PA is currently in control of much of Judea, including Bethlehem. The government in the area holds elections to the PA rather than to the Knesset, no Jews are able to safely reside there as is the case in the rest of PA-occupied Judea, etc

Lol, “PA-occupied Judea”

[Reactionary Libertarian]

Nakba wouldn't have happened "in a perfect world".

In a perfect world, the Romans wouldn’t have kicked the Jews out of Judea.

In reality, we don’t live in a perfect world. Wars of conquest, land loss and ethnic cleaning are extremely common in history. That doesn’t excuse what happened to thousands of Palestinian Arabs in 1948, but it should put it in perspective. Palestinians have every right to be upset over what happened, but you just can’t respond to it by living as permanent refugees, electing terrorists as your government, and teaching your children to be suicide bombers. What’s happening in Gaza is not happening because of the Nakba, it’s happening because Palestinians have chosen to respond to the Nakba by starting a suicidal war with a neighbor much stronger than them. What happened to Palestinians in 1948 was by no means unique, and throughout history many people have responded to such tragedies by accepting reality and building a better life for their children and grandchildren. And if Palestinians did this, they would have a much higher quality of life, much more international support, and a much better chance and getting  at least some of their land back.

[Birdish]

Let's stop beating around the bushes and say the obvious:

Hamas has won!

Hamas knows that it can't beat Israel militarily, so it baited Israel into committing genocide for the entire world to see.

Israel is now more isolated than ever and every terrorist killed will be replaced with 10 new ones.

Hamas is a victim of their own success. They underestimated the damage they would do on October 7th and had no plan on what would happen afterwards. Now Sinwar is hiding in a tunnel under a refugee camp desperately trying not to get caught. Pretending this is some brilliant tactical coup by the Hamas leadership is such a big brain take that I'm not even sure how to respond.

[MT Treasurer]

Israeli strike kills 76 members of one Gaza family, rescue officials say as combat expands in south

How can anyone defend this sh**t? And why is our government so gutless and cowardly to call this out? Who the hell is the superpower here?

"Why is Joe Biden struggling with young voters? How has he collapsed with this group?"

What could possibly be the reason? I am stunned, just stunned.

[Beet]

Nakba wouldn't have happened "in a perfect world".

In a perfect world, the Romans wouldn’t have kicked the Jews out of Judea.

In reality, we don’t live in a perfect world. Wars of conquest, land loss and ethnic cleaning are extremely common in history. That doesn’t excuse what happened to thousands of Palestinian Arabs in 1948, but it should put it in perspective. Palestinians have every right to be upset over what happened, but you just can’t respond to it by living as permanent refugees, electing terrorists as your government, and teaching your children to be suicide bombers. What’s happening in Gaza is not happening because of the Nakba, it’s happening because Palestinians have chosen to respond to the Nakba by starting a suicidal war with a neighbor much stronger than them. What happened to Palestinians in 1948 was by no means unique, and throughout history many people have responded to such tragedies by accepting reality and building a better life for their children and grandchildren. And if Palestinians did this, they would have a much higher quality of life, much more international support, and a much better chance and getting  at least some of their land back.

Ok but this essentially is a might makes right / law of the jungle argument.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Let's stop beating around the bushes and say the obvious:

Hamas has won!

Hamas knows that it can't beat Israel militarily, so it baited Israel into committing genocide for the entire world to see.

Israel is now more isolated than ever and every terrorist killed will be replaced with 10 new ones.

Hamas is a victim of their own success. They underestimated the damage they would do on October 7th and had no plan on what would happen afterwards. Now Sinwar is hiding in a tunnel under a refugee camp desperately trying not to get caught. Pretending this is some brilliant tactical coup by the Hamas leadership is such a big brain take that I'm not even sure how to respond.

Apparently they were banking on a three-pronged attack from Gaza, Lebanon, and the West Bank/Jordan that would have resulted in a full-on invasion and hundreds times more dead, including in the major population centers. In their addled minds, they no doubt thought that Iran would then join the fight while Israel was at its weakest. They succeeded only partway, which was the worst thing that could possibly happen to them.

[pppolitics]

Israeli strike kills 76 members of one Gaza family, rescue officials say as combat expands in south

How can anyone defend this sh**t? And why is our government so gutless and cowardly to call this out? Who the hell is the superpower here?

"Why is Joe Biden struggling with young voters? How has he collapsed with this group?"

What could possibly be the reason? I am stunned, just stunned.

US-funded genocide isn't popular with young voters.

[Reactionary Libertarian]

Nakba wouldn't have happened "in a perfect world".

In a perfect world, the Romans wouldn’t have kicked the Jews out of Judea.

In reality, we don’t live in a perfect world. Wars of conquest, land loss and ethnic cleaning are extremely common in history. That doesn’t excuse what happened to thousands of Palestinian Arabs in 1948, but it should put it in perspective. Palestinians have every right to be upset over what happened, but you just can’t respond to it by living as permanent refugees, electing terrorists as your government, and teaching your children to be suicide bombers. What’s happening in Gaza is not happening because of the Nakba, it’s happening because Palestinians have chosen to respond to the Nakba by starting a suicidal war with a neighbor much stronger than them. What happened to Palestinians in 1948 was by no means unique, and throughout history many people have responded to such tragedies by accepting reality and building a better life for their children and grandchildren. And if Palestinians did this, they would have a much higher quality of life, much more international support, and a much better chance and getting  at least some of their land back.

Ok but this essentially is a might makes right / law of the jungle argument.

“Might makes right and we live in the world we live in” has its flaws but it’s a lot better than the “my great-grandfather was here first” argument, no matter whether it’s being put forth by Jews, Palestinians, American Indians or European White Nationalists. The main issue with wars of conquest today isn’t “stealing land”, since all land is stolen, it’s that modern warfare is so destructive and deadly that all war must be discouraged, including conquest. If not for the advent of nuclear weapons and the devastation of WWI and WWII, wars of conquest would still be acceptable today. That’s why conquest was banned, not because of the “borders are sacred” nonsense.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Let's stop beating around the bushes and say the obvious:

Hamas has won!

Hamas knows that it can't beat Israel militarily, so it baited Israel into committing genocide for the entire world to see.

Israel is now more isolated than ever and every terrorist killed will be replaced with 10 new ones.

Hamas is a victim of their own success. They underestimated the damage they would do on October 7th and had no plan on what would happen afterwards. Now Sinwar is hiding in a tunnel under a refugee camp desperately trying not to get caught. Pretending this is some brilliant tactical coup by the Hamas leadership is such a big brain take that I'm not even sure how to respond.

Hamas isn't primarily fighting for military supremacy. It's fighting for the support of the Arab street. And in that it has been largely successful.

[CumbrianLefty]

Let's stop beating around the bushes and say the obvious:

Hamas has won!

Hamas knows that it can't beat Israel militarily, so it baited Israel into committing genocide for the entire world to see.

Israel is now more isolated than ever and every terrorist killed will be replaced with 10 new ones.

Hamas is a victim of their own success. They underestimated the damage they would do on October 7th and had no plan on what would happen afterwards. Now Sinwar is hiding in a tunnel under a refugee camp desperately trying not to get caught. Pretending this is some brilliant tactical coup by the Hamas leadership is such a big brain take that I'm not even sure how to respond.

Hamas isn't primarily fighting for military supremacy. It's fighting for the support of the Arab street. And in that it has been largely successful.

Its secondary aim is surely to turn people outside the Arab/Muslim world against Israel - it looks like that is also happening to at least a degree.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Let's stop beating around the bushes and say the obvious:

Hamas has won!

Hamas knows that it can't beat Israel militarily, so it baited Israel into committing genocide for the entire world to see.

Israel is now more isolated than ever and every terrorist killed will be replaced with 10 new ones.

Hamas is a victim of their own success. They underestimated the damage they would do on October 7th and had no plan on what would happen afterwards. Now Sinwar is hiding in a tunnel under a refugee camp desperately trying not to get caught. Pretending this is some brilliant tactical coup by the Hamas leadership is such a big brain take that I'm not even sure how to respond.

Hamas isn't primarily fighting for military supremacy. It's fighting for the support of the Arab street. And in that it has been largely successful.

Its secondary aim is surely to turn people outside the Arab/Muslim world against Israel - it looks like that is also happening to at least a degree.

Yes, that also looks fairly successful at the moment.
On a sidenote, the Chinese nationalist plan in the early stages of the (Second) Sino-Japanese War was pretty similar. Show the world that something is happening here, act with the knowledge our opponents will get blamed for everything, and harm their war machine by cutting it off from foreign help.
The last one is going to be hard but they've been pretty successfully done the first two to varying degrees. The first in particular, the first has been completely successful. It is clear that Palestinian resistance, however you may feel about it, is still kicking.

[Silent Hunter]

The Chinese still needed British and American help to remove the Japanese. There is no external military intervention coming that can stop Israeli aircraft from bombing at will.

[Birdish]

In other news, The Times of Israel is reporting on an Egyptian Peace Proposal that the Israelis aren't flat out rejecting.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/egypt-submits-proposal-to-end-war-free-all-hostages-form-pa-hamas-government-to-rule-gaza/

Israeli officials confirm to several Hebrew media outlets that Egypt has placed on the table a new proposal for a truce and a further release of Israeli hostages held by Gazan terrorists, with some indicating Jerusalem isn’t flat-out rejecting it and that it could lead to negotiations.

According to the Saudi news website Asharq, which quotes a source who participated in the talks between Egypt and Hamas in Cairo last week, the Egyptian initiative is a plan to end hostilities and release all the remaining hostages, in three stages.

The first stage would be a two-week halt in fighting, extendable to three or four, in exchange for the release of 40 hostages — women, minors and elderly men, especially sick ones.

In return, Israel would release 120 Palestinian security prisoners of the same categories. During this time, hostilities would stop, Israeli tanks would withdraw, and humanitarian aid would enter Gaza.

The second phase would see an Egypt-sponsored “Palestinian national talk” aimed at ending the division between Palestinian factions — mainly the Palestinian Authority and the Hamas terror group — and leading to the formation of a technocratic government in the West Bank and Gaza that would oversee the reconstruction of Gaza and pave the way for Palestinian parliamentary and presidential elections.

The third stage would include a comprehensive ceasefire, the release of the remaining Israeli hostages, including soldiers, in return for a to-be-determined number of Palestinian security prisoners in Israeli jails affiliated with Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad terror group — including those arrested after October 7 and some convicted of serious terror offenses. In this phase, Israel would withdraw its forces from cities in the Gaza Strip and would allow displaced Gazans from the enclave’s north to return to their homes.

Hopefully it's the start of some progress toward an end to the conflict.

Edit: In theory, If I'm understanding this correctly, Hamas would cease to exist in the sense that it would be absorbed into a new Palestinian Authority. So in a sense, Israel could claim victory on getting rid of Hamas. 

[pppolitics]

The Chinese still needed British and American help to remove the Japanese. There is no external military intervention coming that can stop Israeli aircraft from bombing at will.

Without US’s protection, Iran would come right through the front door.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

The Chinese still needed British and American help to remove the Japanese. There is no external military intervention coming that can stop Israeli aircraft from bombing at will.

Without US’s protection, Iran would come right through the front door.

Iran is actually a complicated thing for Israel. Iran's a roadblock to Islamic world unity which could profoundly threaten the Israelis' freedom of action, while they both make for good foils to each other (useful for domestic stability to have outside boogeymen). At the same time there's significant bad blood that is well known. If the Iranian state collapsed tomorrow it would not be a necessarily positive thing for the Israelis.

[Birdish]

The Chinese still needed British and American help to remove the Japanese. There is no external military intervention coming that can stop Israeli aircraft from bombing at will.

Without US’s protection, Iran would come right through the front door.

And do what?

[Florida Man for Crime]

Hamas has won!

First of all, it is not true that Hamas has won.

Second of all, I will let you clarify this, but my reading of your use of the large font, bold, and exclamation mark is that you are happy about your (perception) that Hamas has won and you consider it a good thing.

Is that an accurate reflection of your intentions, or did you mean to convey some other sort of message?

You do not have to be a supporter of the Israeli government or of things such as its settlement policy (neither of which many people such as myself support) to recognize that Hamas is a horrendous terrorist organization which deliberately seeks to murder large numbers of civilians - especially Israelis, but also Palestinians as well.

You can support Palestine and Palestinian civilians, and that's fine and reasonable if you want to go that way, but that does not mean you need to support Hamas.

I hope you will clarify that you do NOT support Hamas and that you condemn their actions in which they have deliberately murdered civilians, or else I for one will subsequently discount your postings more so than I already do, and I hope other posters will do the same.

If you don't do this, it makes the stances adopted by people such as Vosem for example actually look like a reasonable and sympathetic reaction, which is certainly not something you should want if you want what is best for Palestine and/or the Palestinian people, which nominally you seem to claim to be concerned with.

[Florida Man for Crime]

The Chinese still needed British and American help to remove the Japanese. There is no external military intervention coming that can stop Israeli aircraft from bombing at will.

Without US’s protection, Iran would come right through the front door.

And do what?

Apparently in pppolitics' world, even if Iran could manage to inflict conventional military defeat against Israel in an offensive war, for some reason Iran would have no need to be at all concerned about Israeli nukes.

Maybe pppolitics knows something we don't about that, but I doubt it.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

The Chinese still needed British and American help to remove the Japanese. There is no external military intervention coming that can stop Israeli aircraft from bombing at will.

Without US’s protection, Iran would come right through the front door.

And there wouldn't be an Iran five minutes after that.