Israel-Gaza war

[Horus]

https://twitter.com/RollingStone/status/1737982283536060834?s=20

Yeah it's been time for the South Africa treatment, but if this doesn't convince the Israel firsters nothing will.

They claimed there was a literal Bond villain lair under there.

[Pericles]

This Christmas season, don't just think about Bethlehem 2,023 years ago but think about it being under tyrannical foreign rule right now.
‘Without work and hope’: Bethlehem’s Christmas economy bleeds from Gaza war

‘Impossible to rejoice’
Vendors like Juqman had suffered “setbacks” due to “quarantines, and COVID measures” in recent years, which caused a decline in the economy, he said.

They were hoping for “a prosperous season” around the holiday season this year, he added.

He said he believes what’s happening in the West Bank amounts to “collective punishment”, and is unprecedented. It threatens the existence of hotels, companies and the entire tourism sector in Bethlehem, he added.

Rula Maayah, the Palestinian minister for tourism, said that the tourism sector has incurred significant losses as a result of the Israeli assault on Gaza.

The losses for this year are expected to amount to $200m, Maayah said. According to her, at least 60 percent of the losses directly affect Bethlehem.

People from all over the world, including the United States, Russia Romania, Poland, Italy, Spain and India would visit the city every year, Maayah said.

At a time when the world is celebrating Christmas, Bethlehem is “sad, silent, in pain, and completely besieged”, Maayah said.

[pppolitics]

Israel’s military campaign in Gaza seen as among the most destructive in recent history, experts say

JERUSALEM (AP) — The Israeli military campaign in Gaza, experts say, now sits among the deadliest and most destructive in recent history.

In just over two months, the offensive has wreaked more destruction than the razing of Syria’s Aleppo between 2012 and 2016, Ukraine’s Mariupol or, proportionally, the Allied bombing of Germany in World War II. It has killed more civilians than the U.S.-led coalition did in its three-year campaign against the Islamic State group.

[...]

By some measures, destruction in Gaza has outpaced Allied bombings of Germany during World War II.

Between 1942 and 1945, the allies attacked 51 major German cities and towns, destroying about 40-50% of their urban areas, said Robert Pape, a U.S. military historian. Pape said this amounted to 10% of buildings across Germany, compared to over 33% across Gaza, a densely populated territory of just 140 square miles (360 square kilometers).

“Gaza is one of the most intense civilian punishment campaigns in history,” said Pape. “It now sits comfortably in the top quartile of the most devastating bombing campaigns ever.”

The U.S.-led coalition’s 2017 assault to expel the Islamic State group from the Iraqi city of Mosul was considered one of the most intense attacks on a city in generations. That nine-month battle killed around 10,000 civilians, a third of them from coalition bombardment, according an Associated Press investigation at the time.

During the 2014-2017 campaign to defeat IS in Iraq, the coalition carried out nearly 15,000 strikes across the country, according to Airwars, a London-based independent group that tracks recent conflicts. By comparison, the Israeli military said last week it has conducted 22,000 strikes in Gaza.

[...]

https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-bombs-destruction-death-toll-scope-419488c511f83c85baea22458472a796

[pppolitics]

A Times Investigation Tracked Israel’s Use of One of Its Most Destructive Bombs in South Gaza

During the first six weeks of the war in Gaza, Israel routinely used one of its biggest and most destructive bombs in areas it designated safe for civilians, according to an analysis of visual evidence by The New York Times.

The video investigation focuses on the use of 2,000-pound bombs in an area of southern Gaza where Israel had ordered civilians to move for safety. While bombs of that size are used by several Western militaries, munitions experts say they are almost never dropped by U.S. forces in densely populated areas anymore.

The Times programmed an artificial intelligence tool to scan satellite imagery of south Gaza for bomb craters. Times reporters manually reviewed the search results, looking for craters measuring roughly 40 feet across or larger. Munitions experts say typically only 2,000-pound bombs form craters of that size in Gaza’s light, sandy soil.

Ultimately, the investigation identified 208 craters in satellite imagery and drone footage. Because of limited satellite imagery and variations in a bomb’s effects, there are likely to have been many cases that were not captured. But the findings reveal that 2,000-pound bombs posed a pervasive threat to civilians seeking safety across south Gaza.

In response to questions about the bomb’s use in south Gaza, an Israeli military spokesman said in a statement to The Times that Israel’s priority was destroying Hamas and “questions of this kind will be looked into at a later stage.” The spokesman also said that the I.D.F. “takes feasible precautions to mitigate civilian harm.”

But U.S. officials have said that Israel should do more to reduce civilian casualties while fighting Hamas. The Pentagon increased shipments to Israel of smaller bombs that it considers better suited to urban environments like Gaza. Still, since October, the United States has also sent more than 5,000 MK-84 munitions — a type of 2,000-pound bomb.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/21/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-bomb-investigation.html

[patzer]

This Christmas season, don't just think about Bethlehem 2,023 years ago but think about it being under tyrannical foreign rule right now.
‘Without work and hope’: Bethlehem’s Christmas economy bleeds from Gaza war

The PA's rule may be tyrannical but I'm not sure you can describe it as foreign.

[pppolitics]

‘Not seen since Vietnam’: Israel dropped hundreds of 2,000-pound bombs on Gaza, analysis shows

CNN — In the first month of its war in Gaza, Israel dropped hundreds of massive bombs, many of them capable of killing or wounding people more than 1,000 feet away, analysis by CNN and artificial intelligence company Synthetaic suggests.

Satellite imagery from those early days of the war reveals more than 500 impact craters over 12 meters (40 feet) in diameter, consistent with those left behind by 2,000-pound bombs. Those are four times heavier than the largest bombs the United States dropped on ISIS in Mosul, Iraq, during the war against the extremist group there.

Weapons and warfare experts blame the extensive use of heavy munitions such as the 2,000-pound bomb for the soaring death toll. The population of Gaza is packed together much more tightly than almost anywhere else on earth, so the use of such heavy munitions has a profound effect.

“The use of 2,000-pound bombs in an area as densely populated as Gaza means it will take decades for communities to recover,” said John Chappell, advocacy and legal fellow at CIVIC, a DC-based group focused on minimizing civilian harm in conflict.

Israel has come under pressure internationally over the scale of the devastation in Gaza, with even staunch ally US President Joe Biden accusing Israel of “indiscriminate bombing” of the coastal strip.

Israeli officials have argued that its heavy munitions are necessary to eliminating Hamas, whose fighters killed more than 1,200 people and took more than 240 hostages on October 7. They also claim that Israel is doing all it can to minimize civilian casualties.

“In response to Hamas’ barbaric attacks, the IDF is operating to dismantle Hamas’ military and administrative capabilities,” the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said in a statement in response to CNN’s reporting. “In stark contrast to Hamas’ intentional attacks on Israeli men, women and children, the IDF follows international law and takes feasible precautions to mitigate civilian harm.”

Hamas relies on a sprawling tunnel network that is believed to crisscross the Gaza Strip. Proponents of Israel’s campaign in Gaza argue that the heavy munitions act as bunker busters, helping to destroy Hamas’ underground infrastructure.

But 2,000-pound bombs are normally used sparingly by Western militaries, experts say, because of their potential impact on densely populated areas like Gaza. International humanitarian law prohibits indiscriminate bombing.

Marc Garlasco a former US defense intelligence analyst and former UN war crimes investigator, said the density of Israel’s first month of bombardment in Gaza had “not been seen since Vietnam.”

Garlasco, now a military adviser at PAX, a Dutch non-governmental organization that advocates for peace, reviewed all the incidents analyzed in this report for CNN.

“You’d have to go back to the Vietnam war to make a comparison,” said Garlasco. “Even in both Iraq wars it was never that dense.”

The heavy munitions, mostly manufactured by the US, can cause high casualty events and can have a lethal fragmentation radius – an area of exposure to injury or death around the target – of up to 365 meters (about 1,198 feet), or the equivalent of 58 soccer fields in area.

Weapons and warfare experts blame the extensive use of heavy weaponry, such as the 2,000-pound bomb for the soaring death toll. According to authorities in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip, about 20,000 people have been killed since October 7.

Most of the dead are women and children, according to those figures.

[...]

https://www.cnn.com/gaza-israel-big-bombs/index.html

[Meclazine for Israel]

Nikki Hayley talks about where Palestinian refugees should go.

Hamas Friendly Countries

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1KUqJQr6Jw/

We have this giant Islamic Elephant in the room. Israel occupy about 3% of the Middle East. Every other country surrounding them are Muslim, yet they won't take any of their brothers and sisters at their greatest hour of need, not even sick babies.

Who is helping their Muslim brothers?

I wonder why Jordan and Egypt wont take any Palestinian refugees?

[super6646]

Nikki Hayley talks about where Palestinian refugees should go.

Hamas Friendly Countries

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1KUqJQr6Jw/

We have this giant Islamic Elephant in the room. Israel occupy about 3% of the Middle East. Every other country surrounding them are Muslim, yet they won't take any of their brothers and sisters at their greatest hour of need, bot even sick babies.

I wonder why Jordan and Egypt wont take any Palestinian refugees?

Because of what’s happened when they’ve taken in Palestinians before lol.

In saying that, it’s pretty unfair to the children and co. They are stuck in a hard place to say the least through no fault of their own.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

Why is ModernBourbon allowed to comment on this? He thinks Israelis have collective responsibility for this while his own country slaughters tens of thousands in Ukraine.

[Horus]

Why is ModernBourbon allowed to comment on this? He thinks Israelis have collective responsibility for this while his own country slaughters tens of thousands in Ukraine.

IIRC ModernBourbon lives in Canada and is either a first or second gen Soviet Jewish immigrant. He is anti Putin and even had a signature skewering him a few years back.

[Pericles]

This Christmas season, don't just think about Bethlehem 2,023 years ago but think about it being under tyrannical foreign rule right now.
‘Without work and hope’: Bethlehem’s Christmas economy bleeds from Gaza war

The PA's rule may be tyrannical but I'm not sure you can describe it as foreign.

Gosh you're delusional if you think the PA are sovereign anywhere in Palestine.

[patzer]

This Christmas season, don't just think about Bethlehem 2,023 years ago but think about it being under tyrannical foreign rule right now.
‘Without work and hope’: Bethlehem’s Christmas economy bleeds from Gaza war

The PA's rule may be tyrannical but I'm not sure you can describe it as foreign.

Gosh you're delusional if you think the PA are sovereign anywhere in Palestine.

I don't see how anyone can deny that the PA is currently in control of much of Judea, including Bethlehem. The government in the area holds elections to the PA rather than to the Knesset, no Jews are able to safely reside there as is the case in the rest of PA-occupied Judea, etc

[CumbrianLefty]

Why is ModernBourbon allowed to comment on this? He thinks Israelis have collective responsibility for this while his own country slaughters tens of thousands in Ukraine.

Whilst I have limited time for the concept of "collective responsibility", as its advocates never tire of pointing out Israel is a democracy - unlike Gaza and indeed most neighbouring countries.

(and Russia, of course)

And yes, assuming the poster you refer to is pppolitics - they are very much pro-Ukraine.

[Comrade Funk]

Israeli strike kills 76 members of one Gaza family, rescue officials say as combat expands in south

How can anyone defend this sh**t? And why is our government so gutless and cowardly to call this out? Who the hell is the superpower here?

[pppolitics]

Israeli strike kills 76 members of one Gaza family, rescue officials say as combat expands in south

How can anyone defend this sh**t? And why is our government so gutless and cowardly to call this out? Who the hell is the superpower here?

The Biden administration will say that is very concerned about civilian casualties, all the while asking Congress to send more weapons to Israel with no strings attached.

[pppolitics]

Why is ModernBourbon allowed to comment on this? He thinks Israelis have collective responsibility for this while his own country slaughters tens of thousands in Ukraine.

He said that he opposes the war in Ukraine.

I don't blame every person for what his/her government does.

[Silent Hunter]

I don't see how anyone can deny that the PA is currently in control of much of Judea, including Bethlehem. The government in the area holds elections to the PA rather than to the Knesset, no Jews are able to safely reside there as is the case in the rest of PA-occupied Judea, etc

Could a Jew even openly walk in those locations unarmed? Even armed, they would get attacked.

[Vosem]

Israeli strike kills 76 members of one Gaza family, rescue officials say as combat expands in south

How can anyone defend this sh**t? And why is our government so gutless and cowardly to call this out? Who the hell is the superpower here?

I mean, we have been over the goals of both parties and we have been over plausible alternatives. I don't really understand how people decry it.

[Meclazine for Israel]

INTEL has 20,000 employees in Israel.

INTEL CEO

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1NhWuoLBUm/

Despite their employees being kidnapped, killed and called up for reserve duty, Pat Gelsinger says his team in Israel have not missed a beat.

[pppolitics]

Let's stop beating around the bushes and say the obvious:

Hamas has won!
Israel is now more isolated than ever and every terrorist killed will be replaced with 10 new ones.

[Vosem]

Let's stop beating around the bushes and say the obvious:

Hamas has won!

Hamas knows that it can't beat Israel militarily, so it baited Israel into committing genocide for the entire world to see.

Israel is now more isolated than ever and every terrorist killed will be replaced with 10 new ones.

But the whole world united around supporting Israel, including even Arab countries behind the scenes; Hamas leaders are being forced into fleeing Qatar and they've been unable to push back on Israeli advances in Gaza.

How is Israel not achieving all of its objectives? Hell, over the past two months, the two large democracies which replaced their leaders have both picked completely new parties running on support for Israel as a major part of their platform (Wilders, in particular, is much more extreme on the issue than the mainstream Israeli right).

[Vosem]

Let's stop beating around the bushes and say the obvious:

Hamas has won!

Hamas knows that it can't beat Israel militarily, so it baited Israel into committing genocide for the entire world to see.

Israel is now more isolated than ever and every terrorist killed will be replaced with 10 new ones.

But the whole world united around supporting Israel, including even Arab countries behind the scenes; Hamas leaders are being forced into fleeing Qatar and they've been unable to push back on Israeli advances in Gaza.

How is Israel not achieving all of its objectives? Hell, over the past two months, the two large democracies which replaced their leaders have both picked completely new parties running on support for Israel as a major part of their platform (Wilders, in particular, is much more extreme on the issue than the mainstream Israeli right).

Even more so, the protestors on the Palestinian side who are not motivated by racism lost hardest of all: everyone fundamentally thinks the Palestinian movement is racist, and by rewarding Hamas for holding human shields, they've guaranteed that the next ten incidents of urban combat will have far more civilian casualties than they would've otherwise. (Of course, this assumes reducing civilian casualties is actually what they care about, which is perhaps questionable).

Hell, for evidence of Israel winning, you can look at your own signature. (Do you think I should copy it, and make it also my signature? I don't want to plagiarize.) Reminiscent of your earlier signature mocking a prediction that three Republicans would be rising stars...when two of them became Speakers of the House, and one became House Majority Leader. Rising stars is exactly who they were.

[pppolitics]

Let's stop beating around the bushes and say the obvious:

Hamas has won!

Hamas knows that it can't beat Israel militarily, so it baited Israel into committing genocide for the entire world to see.

Israel is now more isolated than ever and every terrorist killed will be replaced with 10 new ones.

But the whole world united around supporting Israel, including even Arab countries behind the scenes; Hamas leaders are being forced into fleeing Qatar and they've been unable to push back on Israeli advances in Gaza.

How is Israel not achieving all of its objectives? Hell, over the past two months, the two large democracies which replaced their leaders have both picked completely new parties running on support for Israel as a major part of their platform (Wilders, in particular, is much more extreme on the issue than the mainstream Israeli right).

The whole world rallied around Israel after October 7, but all that goodwill dissipated

[Vosem]

Let's stop beating around the bushes and say the obvious:

Hamas has won!

Hamas knows that it can't beat Israel militarily, so it baited Israel into committing genocide for the entire world to see.

Israel is now more isolated than ever and every terrorist killed will be replaced with 10 new ones.

But the whole world united around supporting Israel, including even Arab countries behind the scenes; Hamas leaders are being forced into fleeing Qatar and they've been unable to push back on Israeli advances in Gaza.

How is Israel not achieving all of its objectives? Hell, over the past two months, the two large democracies which replaced their leaders have both picked completely new parties running on support for Israel as a major part of their platform (Wilders, in particular, is much more extreme on the issue than the mainstream Israeli right).

The whole world rallied around Israel after October 7, but all that goodwill dissipated when Israel went full genocidal for the entire world to see.

But it didn't. The Arab countries and European countries are still pushing for Israel to continue the campaign. They've gotten the Republicans and Democrats to compromise on long-standing controversies (like the border) so that they can fund the Israeli war effort.

Hamas's actual allies, outside of North Yemen, have abandoned it: neither Hezbollah, nor Iran, nor the Syrian government, has chosen to attack Israel. It appears much likelier now that regimes outside the Levant which are sympathetic to Hamas (like North Yemen) or even just not entirely negative (like Qatar) will be attacked by Israeli allies in the next few years.

This fits earlier patterns: support for Israel in the 21st-century has globally risen during periods of intense conflict, whether that's in Lebanon (2006) or Gaza (2009, 2014, very likely this time). The war machine is the reason that Israel's foreign supporters continue to support it.

[pppolitics]

Let's stop beating around the bushes and say the obvious:

Hamas has won!

Hamas knows that it can't beat Israel militarily, so it baited Israel into committing genocide for the entire world to see.

Israel is now more isolated than ever and every terrorist killed will be replaced with 10 new ones.

But the whole world united around supporting Israel, including even Arab countries behind the scenes; Hamas leaders are being forced into fleeing Qatar and they've been unable to push back on Israeli advances in Gaza.

How is Israel not achieving all of its objectives? Hell, over the past two months, the two large democracies which replaced their leaders have both picked completely new parties running on support for Israel as a major part of their platform (Wilders, in particular, is much more extreme on the issue than the mainstream Israeli right).

The whole world rallied around Israel after October 7, but all that goodwill dissipated when Israel went full genocidal for the entire world to see.

But it didn't. The Arab countries and European countries are still pushing for Israel to continue the campaign. They've gotten the Republicans and Democrats to compromise on long-standing controversies (like the border) so that they can fund the Israeli war effort.