Israel-Gaza war

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Elon Musk visits Kfar Aza Kibbutz with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu

Elon Musk

https://youtu.be/6nWwzR-I0iw

Elon's facial expression caught my attention. Very flat.

[bilaps]

The MSM is doing what it typically does which is names, smiling faces, ages, and emotion laden stories of individual Israeli hostages freed, not a single one of Palestinian prisoners freed, just numbers in passing. If I hadn't been blackpilled on the MSM already from Covid this would have done it.

Given what some of them were imprisoned for, reporting on the the individual stories of the Palestinian prisoners would only turn the west more in favour of Israel. I don't think you've really thought this idea through

Israeli law allows for Palestinians to be held INDEFINETELY without trial. Israel have two tier system of judiciary in the occupied West Bank. One, civil law for Israelis and another Military law for Palestinians.  Israelis have arrested more people in the last few days than the number of prisoners which they released. Argue with that.

People are now able to find out what happens on a daily basis in West Bank without MSM. They can't control anymore what young people can see, that's why they wanna ban likes of tik-tok because they can't control the message which doesn't suits them. History didn't start on October 7h and although some heinous crimes have been committed on that day, everything must be put into the context. Palestinian hatred towards Israelis and the West didn't fall out of sky.

[Pericles]

If those poll results are accurate, it's no surprise to see a 'rally round the flag' effect in wartime.

[PSOL]

Laki, it sounds like something is lost in translation perhaps but it is inaccurate to suggest only Hamas are defending Palestinians

You are right, which makes one of the most frustrating aspects of coverage on this conflict.

The main coordinating organization defending Palestine is the Joint Room for Palestinian Resistance Factions—including much of what constitutes the PLO and PNA and groups independent of it—and anyone disregarding that this multifront war is not including all its parts is as inane as denying there isn’t a wartime Coalition government in Israel.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Another 11 hostages released by Hamas terrorists.


11 Hostages released yesterday, mainly children. (CNN)

The World just looks on in horror and now gets to read about their family reunion, the initial capture involving murder and mayhem and then the sheer terror their families must have gone through over the last 51 days. In yet another obtuse display by Hamas, they had armed terrorists in black balaclavas handing over babies held by women wearing pink.

Hamas has not released many of the parents of the released children.


Small children were among 11 hostages handed over by Hamas on Monday. Photograph: Anadolu/Getty Images

A deal has been reached to extend the truce for 2 days, presumably as Hamas plans to release more Israeli hostages.

ITV News

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOXxzkWDRu8

Hard to watch for any parent. Thomas Hand spoke for the first time about his daughter Emily.

Most of the parents of the children released today from Gaza still remain captive by Hamas. ITV said another 6 Thai's were release in addition to the 11 Israeli's.

Mark Regev, chief political advisor to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, talks to the media about the humanitarian pause.

MSNBC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHOgDjvRUfU

Sky News Australia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4jQ9k9yRx8

The amazing part is how Hamas are completely unaware just how bad this looks. The image of militants in balaclavas with machine guns guarding toddlers who are now separated from their father. It's the worst PR look imaginable.

Mark Regev discussed the kidnapping of twin toddlers aged 3. He believes the only reason why the hostages were released was because of the intense military action taken by Israel. Once Hamas finish handing over terrorists, Mark said that Israel are preparing to resume hostilities.

"Israeli's simply refuse to live any longer next to this terror enclave on our southern border."

[Hnv1]

So Hamas are claiming the Bibas family is held by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine's Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades, so they can't release them as they demand Israel release Ahmad Sa'adat from prison.



Mind you, the PFLP has less than a thousand supporters in Gaza, whereas Hamas has thousands of men in Khan Younis.

[Agafin]

Hamas's attack and the subsequent IDF response flipped the table.

I've read your entire post and yet I fail to see how this statement could be true. How can anyone look at Gaza and think that it is in a better position than on Oct 6? The strip is now divided in 2 for crying out loud, half of it is just ruins. If I were to put my shoes in a gazan's, all I would realise is that there is exactly 0% chance that Israel ever accepts them as their neighbours. And that surrounding arab countries (most notably, saudi Arabia) don't give a sh*t as they clearly value their relations with the US and even Israel, more.

Also, the fact that Hamas has accepted a 1:3 ratio for the release of hostages seems like an admission of failure to me. We are a far cry from the 1000:1 from a decade ago, or their demand of every palestinian prisoner from October 7. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Israel has arrested more palestinians since Oct 7 than have been released since the prisoner/hostage swap was reached.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Hamas now publishing propaganda they say is from their captives in an attempt to win the last vestiges of support from the young Western crowd who appears to follow their cause.



It's basically a "thank you for kidnapping us" letter.

[CumbrianLefty]

Hamas's attack and the subsequent IDF response flipped the table.

I've read your entire post and yet I fail to see how this statement could be true. How can anyone look at Gaza and think that it is in a better position than on Oct 6? The strip is now divided in 2 for crying out loud, half of it is just ruins. If I were to put my shoes in a gazan's, all I would realise is that there is exactly 0% chance that Israel ever accepts them as their neighbours. And that surrounding arab countries (most notably, saudi Arabia) don't give a sh*t as they clearly value their relations with the US and even Israel, more.

Also, the fact that Hamas has accepted a 1:3 ratio for the release of hostages seems like an admission of failure to me. We are a far cry from the 1000:1 from a decade ago, or their demand of every palestinian prisoner from October 7. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Israel has arrested more palestinians since Oct 7 than have been released since the prisoner/hostage swap was reached.

Yes, at a fundamental level Hamas have totally failed. They are fortunate that Israel's now familiar ineptitude and brutality have obscured this reality as much as it has, but that cannot last forever.

[Silent Hunter]

A report on their treatment:

https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/gaza-news/article-775480

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Says Itamar Ben-Gvir on Twitter:
עצירת המלחמה = פירוק הממשלה
(Stopping the war = dissolution of the government)*
https://twitter.com/itamarbengvir/status/1729567921989419239?s=20
*=to be clear, this is the tweet fed into Heb->Eng in Google Translate

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

If the report of Hamas offering to release all the hostages including soldiers in exchange for ending the war can be trusted, I don't see how Netanyahu can turn it down - and how Gantz can refuse to a temporary alliance to make Ben-Gvir irrelevant.

Thing is, though, this will mean ALL the hostages - not "Oh, we can't find 70 of them". And then even when the war ends, I can't imagine Gaza won't start a new one in a few months with rockets and Israel won't treat it like a minor affair.

[Vosem]

No, any conclusion in which Hamas does not surrender unconditionally, and agree to implement the directives of the Israeli government, is unacceptable. If Israel is unwilling to bomb Gaza then other countries, or private organizations, should do it, though I think Israel is the country most enthusiastic about this (and also is who the territory belongs to legally), so it makes the most sense.

The role of America and other Western countries should be shutting down aid organizations that are trying to send aid to territories under Hamas's control and criminalizing their activities, instead of cooperating with them. Aid can be sent to territories ruled by Hamas once Hamas either stops ruling them or surrenders unconditionally. The Israeli blockade of Gaza was indeed unjust; it should have always been an Earth blockade. Flotillas of private individuals from around the world should travel to Gaza to destroy the government and ideology there, until Palestinian liberationism is crushed under the weight of eight billion human souls.

[Florida Man for Crime]

If the report of Hamas offering to release all the hostages including soldiers in exchange for ending the war can be trusted, I don't see how Netanyahu can turn it down - and how Gantz can refuse to a temporary alliance to make Ben-Gvir irrelevant.

Thing is, though, this will mean ALL the hostages - not "Oh, we can't find 70 of them". And then even when the war ends, I can't imagine Gaza won't start a new one in a few months with rockets and Israel won't treat it like a minor affair.

If I were Netanyahu and that were offered, what I would do is accept it.

And then I would immediately restart the war as soon as all the hostages were safe.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

If the report of Hamas offering to release all the hostages including soldiers in exchange for ending the war can be trusted, I don't see how Netanyahu can turn it down - and how Gantz can refuse to a temporary alliance to make Ben-Gvir irrelevant.

Thing is, though, this will mean ALL the hostages - not "Oh, we can't find 70 of them". And then even when the war ends, I can't imagine Gaza won't start a new one in a few months with rockets and Israel won't treat it like a minor affair.

If I were Netanyahu and that were offered, what I would do is accept it.

And then I would immediately restart the war as soon as all the hostages were safe.

It would certainly be justified, but due to the world's rancid hypocrisy towards Israel, I imagine he would have to wait until there was a small but clear provocation from Hamas.

[Pres Mike]

No, any conclusion in which Hamas does not surrender unconditionally, and agree to implement the directives of the Israeli government, is unacceptable. If Israel is unwilling to bomb Gaza then other countries, or private organizations, should do it, though I think Israel is the country most enthusiastic about this (and also is who the territory belongs to legally), so it makes the most sense.

The role of America and other Western countries should be shutting down aid organizations that are trying to send aid to territories under Hamas's control and criminalizing their activities, instead of cooperating with them. Aid can be sent to territories ruled by Hamas once Hamas either stops ruling them or surrenders unconditionally. The Israeli blockade of Gaza was indeed unjust; it should have always been an Earth blockade. Flotillas of private individuals from around the world should travel to Gaza to destroy the government and ideology there, until Palestinian liberationism is crushed under the weight of eight billion human souls.

Your just a troll at this point

[Comrade Funk]

No, any conclusion in which Hamas does not surrender unconditionally, and agree to implement the directives of the Israeli government, is unacceptable. If Israel is unwilling to bomb Gaza then other countries, or private organizations, should do it, though I think Israel is the country most enthusiastic about this (and also is who the territory belongs to legally), so it makes the most sense.

The role of America and other Western countries should be shutting down aid organizations that are trying to send aid to territories under Hamas's control and criminalizing their activities, instead of cooperating with them. Aid can be sent to territories ruled by Hamas once Hamas either stops ruling them or surrenders unconditionally. The Israeli blockade of Gaza was indeed unjust; it should have always been an Earth blockade. Flotillas of private individuals from around the world should travel to Gaza to destroy the government and ideology there, until Palestinian liberationism is crushed under the weight of eight billion human souls.

Your just a troll at this point

He's not a troll. He enjoys the bombing.

[Pres Mike]

No, any conclusion in which Hamas does not surrender unconditionally, and agree to implement the directives of the Israeli government, is unacceptable. If Israel is unwilling to bomb Gaza then other countries, or private organizations, should do it, though I think Israel is the country most enthusiastic about this (and also is who the territory belongs to legally), so it makes the most sense.

The role of America and other Western countries should be shutting down aid organizations that are trying to send aid to territories under Hamas's control and criminalizing their activities, instead of cooperating with them. Aid can be sent to territories ruled by Hamas once Hamas either stops ruling them or surrenders unconditionally. The Israeli blockade of Gaza was indeed unjust; it should have always been an Earth blockade. Flotillas of private individuals from around the world should travel to Gaza to destroy the government and ideology there, until Palestinian liberationism is crushed under the weight of eight billion human souls.

Your just a troll at this point

He's not a troll. He enjoys the bombing.

Disgusting

[Meclazine for Israel]

Israel now face some tough choices as listed above.

IDF Spokesman Lt. Col. Jon Conricus talks about the next phase of the War to three different conservative media outlets.

It is interesting to see what he thinks the way forward is for this conflict.

Lt. Col. Jon Conricus - Spokesperson for the IDF.

Sky News

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YSM01kkr4Y

Fox News

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J3t4Q0HHuQ

News Nation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cQv8R4Hxes

A more detailed look at the visit to the Kibbutz in southern Israel by Elon Musk with an extended interview with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for the forum’s listening pleasure.

Elon Musk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZJq1WmGM8s

[All Along The Watchtower]

Flotillas of private individuals from around the world should travel to Gaza to destroy the government and ideology there, until Palestinian liberationism is crushed under the weight of eight billion human souls.

le edge, my dude. le edge.
 

[Vosem]

No, any conclusion in which Hamas does not surrender unconditionally, and agree to implement the directives of the Israeli government, is unacceptable. If Israel is unwilling to bomb Gaza then other countries, or private organizations, should do it, though I think Israel is the country most enthusiastic about this (and also is who the territory belongs to legally), so it makes the most sense.

The role of America and other Western countries should be shutting down aid organizations that are trying to send aid to territories under Hamas's control and criminalizing their activities, instead of cooperating with them. Aid can be sent to territories ruled by Hamas once Hamas either stops ruling them or surrenders unconditionally. The Israeli blockade of Gaza was indeed unjust; it should have always been an Earth blockade. Flotillas of private individuals from around the world should travel to Gaza to destroy the government and ideology there, until Palestinian liberationism is crushed under the weight of eight billion human souls.

Your just a troll at this point

He's not a troll. He enjoys the bombing.

It is, in the current circumstances, better than its absence. No peace without unconditional surrender from Hamas. Ideally, though this is not realistic in 2023, there would be no peace without an unconditional surrender from all of Palestinian liberationism, which would include their foreign backers.

Flotillas of private individuals from around the world should travel to Gaza to destroy the government and ideology there, until Palestinian liberationism is crushed under the weight of eight billion human souls.

le edge, my dude. le edge.
 

as I believe I said in IRC, Vosem appears so absurd because he explicitly states what are meant only to be the implicit tenets of neoliberal ideology.

Came across this quote in an old thread the other day and I just love it. There's no trolling. I explicitly want many outcomes reverse to those of the contemporary First World left and I have been arguing more-or-less the same positions -- certainly the same basic worldview -- for over a decade just on Atlas. There will be peace when the Palestinians themselves denounce Palestinian liberationism, and when instead of being publicly executed individuals who collaborate with Zionists are lionized, and monuments about them are built and maintained, like to the White Rose.

(Also, when have I not supported the blockade? What edge?)

[All Along The Watchtower]

No, any conclusion in which Hamas does not surrender unconditionally, and agree to implement the directives of the Israeli government, is unacceptable. If Israel is unwilling to bomb Gaza then other countries, or private organizations, should do it, though I think Israel is the country most enthusiastic about this (and also is who the territory belongs to legally), so it makes the most sense.

The role of America and other Western countries should be shutting down aid organizations that are trying to send aid to territories under Hamas's control and criminalizing their activities, instead of cooperating with them. Aid can be sent to territories ruled by Hamas once Hamas either stops ruling them or surrenders unconditionally. The Israeli blockade of Gaza was indeed unjust; it should have always been an Earth blockade. Flotillas of private individuals from around the world should travel to Gaza to destroy the government and ideology there, until Palestinian liberationism is crushed under the weight of eight billion human souls.

Your just a troll at this point

He's not a troll. He enjoys the bombing.

It is, in the current circumstances, better than its absence. No peace without unconditional surrender from Hamas. Ideally, though this is not realistic in 2023, there would be no peace without an unconditional surrender from all of Palestinian liberationism, which would include their foreign backers.

Flotillas of private individuals from around the world should travel to Gaza to destroy the government and ideology there, until Palestinian liberationism is crushed under the weight of eight billion human souls.

le edge, my dude. le edge.
 

as I believe I said in IRC, Vosem appears so absurd because he explicitly states what are meant only to be the implicit tenets of neoliberal ideology.

Came across this quote in an old thread the other day and I just love it. There's no trolling. I explicitly want many outcomes reverse to those of the contemporary First World left and I have been arguing more-or-less the same positions -- certainly the same basic worldview -- for over a decade just on Atlas. There will be peace when the Palestinians themselves denounce Palestinian liberationism, and when instead of being publicly executed individuals who collaborate with Zionists are lionized, and monuments about them are built and maintained, like to the White Rose.

(Also, when have I not supported the blockade? What edge?)

I admire your sunny optimism, but more realistic than anything you’ve outlined here is Israel and the Islamic Republic of Iran having full diplomatic relations within the next few months.

[Vosem]

I admire your sunny optimism, but more realistic than anything you’ve outlined here is Israel and the Islamic Republic of Iran having full diplomatic relations within the next few months.

I doubt Hamas will surrender unconditionally (though they may; Imperial Japan did), but I think their total defeat is clearly possible. You don't hear much about the PFLP these days. Contrary to the statements of others, eternal guerrilla war is probably not happens if Gaza is reoccupied, since it wasn't what you saw for decades earlier and it's not what you see in the West Bank. Intifadas are the exceptions, not the rule.

Obviously the whole world is not on Israel's side; my perspective is that everyone should be if they were reasonable, including the Palestinians themselves, but that isn't how things work. I think things have generally been improving for Israel on the perception front almost linearly since around the late 1970s, but past is no indicator of future. (I struggle to see a world where perceptions don't continue improving in Europe, Latin America, and East Africa, though. The US is iffy -- there's a lot that can be written about generational divides -- but I'm pretty confident that the current tactics of pro-Palestinian protesters are guaranteed to cause a much-larger backlash, much as what happened with BLM, and I don't think ordinary Americans find the argument that Gaza is being bombed too hard remotely persuasive.) When I write things like "flotillas of ordinary people from around the world should attack Gaza", it is not necessarily because I predict that something like that will happen -- it won't -- but because it is always important, in any scenario, to keep in mind what would constitute justice and reasonable behavior.

[jaichind]

UN vote on a resolution demanding Israel to "withdraw from all occupied Syrian Golan to the line of June 4, 1967."

Fairly predictable and representative of the current world alignment on Israel-Hamas

[jaichind]

Bloomberg: "Saudi Arabia Offers Iran Investment to Limit Israel-Hamas War"

(Bloomberg) -- Saudi Arabia has approached Iran with an offer to boost cooperation and invest in its sanctions-stricken economy if the Islamic Republic stops its regional proxies from turning the Israel-Hamas war into a wider conflict.