Israel-Gaza war

[Meclazine for Israel]

Video of 21 y.o. French National, Mia Schem, emerges from Gaza.

"Hamas has released a video of a young woman who is understood to be held hostage in the Gaza Strip."

"The video was posted on Hamas' Telegram channel and shows a young woman with a bandaged arm speaking Hebrew. She says her name is Mia Schem, she is 21 years old and from Shoham, near Tel Aviv."


The subtitles on the screenshot read 'I am currently in Gaza (Telegram)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-17/live-updates-israel-gaza-war-latest-news-october-17/102984516

"It is not known when or where the video was recorded."

Meanwhile, not everyone is happy in London and New York with the hostage posters being displayed. In their attempts to keep this a 50:50 internet equivalence argument, muslim women have taken great offence to the kidnap posters.

Muslim Women remove Israeli Kidnap Posters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gbWjmg9A3c

Same in New York. In both cases, only female participants.


(Instagram)

[NOVA Green]

EXHIBIT C: GLOBAL POLITICS AT THE UN

Where is a certain "3rd World dude from Brasil when we need him?"

The U.N. Security Council rejected a Russian resolution Monday night that condemned violence and terrorism against civilians but made no mention of Hamas, whose surprise attack that killed 1,300 Israelis was the worst Jewish massacre since the World War II Nazi Holocaust.

Only four countries joined Russia in voting for the resolution. Four countries voted against it, including the United States. Six countries abstained.

Russia’s U.N. ambassador, Vassily Nebenzia, had urged support for the resolution to respond to the “unprecedented exacerbation” of the situation, citing the council’s inaction since the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip.

The U.S. envoy to the United Nations accused Russia of 'giving cover to terrorist group that brutalizes innocent civilians' by not condemning Hamas in the draft resolution.

It was unclear if the council would vote Monday night on a rival resolution from Brazil that would condemn the Hamas attack.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-16/ty-article-live

[Saint Milei]

This line of thinking isn’t surprising coming from people who think religion is nothing more than a social club that meets once a week or a super vague label . It is not surprising that parents would be very much against their kids marrying someone whose religion would require their kid to convert in order to get married

Of course it's not surprising, but guess what? It's not the parents' marriage. Their adult child can marry whomever they want.

Race and religion isn’t the same thing

Okay, then don't marry a non-Hindui if you don't want to.

Socially pressuring people to marry someone of the same religion when they don't necessarily want to do that is fundamentally wrong.

Your way of thinking is backwards and outdated.

Live your life how you want, but don't try and tell other people how to live theirs.

What all white suburb did you grow up in? No seriously, you can't be this... Nvm you will just report me and I have like 5 in the past 5 days

[NOVA Green]

Exhibit D: Biden Visit to Israel "Quid Pro Quo"

Atlas whines, Atlas weeps, Atlas virtue singles, Atlas cares not, but instead reinforces existing paradigms and mental chains, and clearly gone mad, in many cases lacking rational thought and discourse.

A U.S. official confirmed a Washington Post report that Blinken waited to announce U.S. President Joe Biden's visit to Israel on Wednesday until receiving commitments from Netanyahu concerning a Gaza humanitarian aid package and the creation of civilian safe-zones at the conclusion of the secretary's eight-hour meeting with Israel's war cabinet.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-16/ty-article-live/

[NOVA Green]

EXHIBIT E: ROOTS OF RECENT CONFLICTS

More info dumping on WaPo from Senior Israeli Intelligence

Hamas’s political leadership in exile said it was shocked at the lack of resistance: “We were expecting to get a smaller number of hostages and return, but the army collapsed in front of us, what were we to do?” Ali Barakeh, a Beirut-based Hamas representative, said in an interview with The Washington Post on Monday.

Miri Eisin, a former senior intelligence officer in the Israel Defense Forces, said the operation was the result of at least two years of planning, a period that included two conflicts between the IDF and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, a smaller militant group in Gaza. At the time, Hamas was criticized for standing on the sidelines as PIJ leaders were eliminated by Israeli strikes.

It was part of a vast con, said Eisin, “to lull Israel into complacency,” while Hamas gathered intelligence and quietly built up its capabilities. The fighters’ apparent knowledge of Israeli border towns could have been gleaned in part from the thousands of Gazans who crossed the Israeli border on a daily basis, Eisin said, earning wages in the same communities that were overrun.

The militants burned corpses, beheaded a wounded man with a garden hoe and fatally shot drivers as they entered residential towns, according to hours of videos gathered by the Israeli military, some of which were shared with journalists on Monday. The images could not be independently verified by The Post.

The Hamas attack was, above all, an opportunistic one, experts said, a response to Israeli and Palestinian political dysfunction.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his far-right government had spent months pushing through a plan to weaken his country’s judicial system, setting off nationwide protests, including among military reservists.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/16/hamas-attack-israel/

NOVA GREEN almost Off the Air

[NOVA Green]

J'Accuse...!

1.) Atlas Forum thread of being a master cesspool and swamp of uninformed, low-brow, and generally ignorant opinions in the 1st Degree.

2.) J'Accuse...!

Atlas Forum thread of having a disproportionate amount of individuals who sometimes appear to have an excessive axe to grind, whom in some cases, especially early on lead to certain people potentially advocating mass-murder, regardless of levels of support for either of the two current parties at War.

3.) J'Accuse...!

Atlas Forum thread in recent days, with many of the cray cray hacks dropping off, of having come together to a point where nobody is even talking about what is actually going on today, with a few exceptions.

Hint I like updates from a certain Australian Poster with an Israeli IND Avatar, who also appears to be trying to keep this thread on track.

[NOVA Green]

Top US Commander in Middle East makes surprise visit to Israel.

The top American military commander in the Middle East, Gen. Michael E. Kurilla, arrived in Tel Aviv on Tuesday on an unannounced visit to meet with senior Israeli counterparts and “gain a clear understanding of Israel’s defense requirements,” the general’s headquarters said in a statement.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/10/16/world/israel-hamas-war-news-gaza

[NOVA Green]

Jerusalem Post: US involvement deterred Hezbollah from joining all-out war on Israel

The deployment of US carrier strike groups has deterred Hezbollah from launching an offensive on Israel from its North, the New York Times reported on Tuesday morning, citing a US and Israeli official.

Furthermore, security sources told NYT that Hezbollah's Hassan Nasrallah "does not want all-out war with Israel, for fear of the damage it would do to his group and Lebanon."

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-768739

[NOVA Green]

The Times of Israel update a couple minutes ago...

IDF says over 200 Hamas, Islamic Jihad targets hit in overnight Gaza strikes
Military says number of Hamas members killed in strikes on command center, bank used by terror group

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-october-17-2023/

Obviously the first target Israel hit was the communications building, combined with loss of electricity, makes it much harder to get alternative perspectives, when it comes to IDF claims and "body counts", regardless of whatever attempts to make "surgical strikes".

Not sure how accurate these claims are yet with many memories of American "Smart Bombs" and Cruise Missiles were not nearly as accurate as claimed, let alone the civilian catastrophes unleashed during Iraq War 1.0 and Iraq War 2.0.

Still worth a mention...

[OSR stands with Israel]

A great post I saw from Aurelius on discord about the history of this conflict :

And a reminder of the history of Arab refusal to participate in negotiations:

1937 - Peel commission, rejected
1947 - Partition resolution, rejected
2000 - Camp David, rejected
2001 - Taba, rejected. Arafat starts the second intifada and a year later changes his mind.
2008 - Olmert offer, rejected

Other instances:

1919: Arabs of Palestine refused nominate representatives to the Paris Peace Conference.
1920: San Remo conference decisions, rejected.
1922: League of Nations decisions, rejected.
1937: Peel Commission partition proposal, rejected.
1938: Woodhead partition proposal, rejected
1947: UN General Assembly partition proposal (UNGAR 181), rejected.
1949: Israel's outstretched hand for peace (UNGAR 194), rejected.
1967: Israel's outstretched hand for peace (UNSCR 242), rejected.
1978: Begin/Sa’adat peace proposal, rejected (except for Egypt).
1994: Rabin/Hussein peace agreement, rejected by the rest of the Arab League (except for Egypt).
1995: Rabin's Contour-for-Peace, rejected.
2000: Barak/Clinton peace offer, rejected.
2001: Barak’s offer at Taba, rejected.
2005: Sharon's peace gesture, withdrawal from Gaza, rejected.
2008: Olmert/Bush peace offer, rejected.
2009 to 2021: Netanyahu's repeated invitations to peace talks, rejected.
2014: Kerry's Contour-for-Peace, rejected.

[prag_prog]

last few pages are another example of how most of the leftists on Atlas (or even leftists in West in general) don't know much about India, Hindu/Muslim dynamics etc. I wonder if these people think India was some peaceful society without any inter-religious fights before Modi came into picture.

Anyways...your average Indian barely even knows much about Israrel-Palestine conflict. You might see lot of Israel cheering on social media but India is a vast country and the people you see on twitter are just a very tiny part, mostly BJP influencers. BJP fanatics supporting Israel is due to mix of Israel being a good ally to India + dislike of Islam.

It was quite a long time ago (early 2000's) but one thing I vaguely remember is BJP's previous Prime Minister (Vajpayee) before Modi being pro-Palestine.

[NOVA Green]

A great post I saw from Aurelius on discord about the history of this conflict :

And a reminder of the history of Arab refusal to participate in negotiations:

1937 - Peel commission, rejected
1947 - Partition resolution, rejected
2000 - Camp David, rejected
2001 - Taba, rejected. Arafat starts the second intifada and a year later changes his mind.
2008 - Olmert offer, rejected

Other instances:

1919: Arabs of Palestine refused nominate representatives to the Paris Peace Conference.
1920: San Remo conference decisions, rejected.
1922: League of Nations decisions, rejected.
1937: Peel Commission partition proposal, rejected.
1938: Woodhead partition proposal, rejected
1947: UN General Assembly partition proposal (UNGAR 181), rejected.
1949: Israel's outstretched hand for peace (UNGAR 194), rejected.
1967: Israel's outstretched hand for peace (UNSCR 242), rejected.
1978: Begin/Sa’adat peace proposal, rejected (except for Egypt).
1994: Rabin/Hussein peace agreement, rejected by the rest of the Arab League (except for Egypt).
1995: Rabin's Contour-for-Peace, rejected.
2000: Barak/Clinton peace offer, rejected.
2001: Barak’s offer at Taba, rejected.
2005: Sharon's peace gesture, withdrawal from Gaza, rejected.
2008: Olmert/Bush peace offer, rejected.
2009 to 2021: Netanyahu's repeated invitations to peace talks, rejected.
2014: Kerry's Contour-for-Peace, rejected.

Out of your element Donny.

You seriously coming here not even posting for yourself, but rather a fellow Atlas poster from a Discord server?

OSR--- as a fellow Oregonian who first saw you post, there is a time yo fold them.

Tis not your hill to die on, so why cling to some issue which was never really ever dear to your heart?

Regurgitating lists and numbers of various Israeli-Palestinian negotiations over the decades is not independent thought and opinions.

This is clear more like a ChatGPT on roids or a very sloppy Ctrl P & Ctrl V job.

Hate to mute you just because of this thread, but getting very close to this if you keep posting random gibberish, while meanwhile you are claiming to make a point.

At least post in your words sir....

[OSR stands with Israel]

last few pages are another example of how most of the leftists on Atlas (or even leftists in West in general) don't know much about India, Hindu/Muslim dynamics etc. I wonder if these people think India was some peaceful society without any inter-religious fights before Modi came into picture.

Anyways...your average Indian barely even knows much about Israrel-Palestine conflict. You might see lot of Israel cheering on social media but India is a vast country and the people you see on twitter are just a very tiny part, mostly BJP influencers. BJP fanatics supporting Israel is due to mix of Israel being a good ally to India + dislike of Islam.

It was quite a long time ago (early 2000's) but one thing I vaguely remember is BJP's previous Prime Minister (Vajpayee) before Modi being pro-Palestine.

Eh keep in mind the while Vajpayee wasn’t pro Israel he moved India from being more Pro Palestine to being more neutral overall (process I think started under Rao but then really accelerated post Kargil) . Vajpayee unlike Modi also never had close to a majority government(his best result was 182 seats which is still 91 seats short of a majority) so he was far more reliant on the NDA allies than Modi is so he wasnt able to rock the boat that much as he may otherwise would have.

[OSR stands with Israel]

A great post I saw from Aurelius on discord about the history of this conflict :

And a reminder of the history of Arab refusal to participate in negotiations:

1937 - Peel commission, rejected
1947 - Partition resolution, rejected
2000 - Camp David, rejected
2001 - Taba, rejected. Arafat starts the second intifada and a year later changes his mind.
2008 - Olmert offer, rejected

Other instances:

1919: Arabs of Palestine refused nominate representatives to the Paris Peace Conference.
1920: San Remo conference decisions, rejected.
1922: League of Nations decisions, rejected.
1937: Peel Commission partition proposal, rejected.
1938: Woodhead partition proposal, rejected
1947: UN General Assembly partition proposal (UNGAR 181), rejected.
1949: Israel's outstretched hand for peace (UNGAR 194), rejected.
1967: Israel's outstretched hand for peace (UNSCR 242), rejected.
1978: Begin/Sa’adat peace proposal, rejected (except for Egypt).
1994: Rabin/Hussein peace agreement, rejected by the rest of the Arab League (except for Egypt).
1995: Rabin's Contour-for-Peace, rejected.
2000: Barak/Clinton peace offer, rejected.
2001: Barak’s offer at Taba, rejected.
2005: Sharon's peace gesture, withdrawal from Gaza, rejected.
2008: Olmert/Bush peace offer, rejected.
2009 to 2021: Netanyahu's repeated invitations to peace talks, rejected.
2014: Kerry's Contour-for-Peace, rejected.

Out of your element Donny.

You seriously coming here not even posting for yourself, but rather a fellow Atlas poster from a Discord server?

OSR--- as a fellow Oregonian who first saw you post, there is a time yo fold them.

Tis not your hill to die on, so why cling to some issue which was never really ever dear to your heart?

Regurgitating lists and numbers of various Israeli-Palestinian negotiations over the decades is not independent thought and opinions.

This is clear more like a ChatGPT on roids or a very sloppy Ctrl P & Ctrl V job.

Hate to mute you just because of this thread, but getting very close to this if you keep posting random gibberish, while meanwhile you are claiming to make a point.

At least post in your words sir....

I thought this was a very good post and I thought it should be posted here as well. I just decided to credit the original poster who made this post as this wasnt my post here

[Meclazine for Israel]

Currently 1:30pm in Gaza.

Gaza Live Stream

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcPPJqKsTR8

All appears quiet on the Western Front. In other news, two countries threatening to deport Palestinians who show support for Hamas over the recent Islamic terrorist attack inside Israel.

Australia - Peter Dutton

https://www.2gb.com/they-should-be-deported-dutton-calls-for-action-on-protestors-with-visas/

Australia has 'bad character' laws to deport such people.

USA - Tom Cotton


In a letter to DHS Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, Cotton demanded immediate action be taken to remove all foreign nationals who voiced support for Hamas. (Bill Clark/CQ-Roll Call, Inc via Getty Images)

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sen-cotton-urges-dhs-deport-foreign-nationals-support-hamas-no-place-united-states

Tom's language shows he is serious. He wants all levels of Hamas to be removed - financial, political and military. Tom appeared to raise the issue of Iran being responsible for these attacks and that the US will respond if Hezbollah gets involved.

Jack Carr talks to Peter Zeihan about the situation in Israel.

Danger Close - What's Really Going On In Israel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr4zxfUCX-w

Peter hinted that the only reason the Carrier groups are sitting offshore is to get the US hostages, and are not interested in fighting Hezbollah and Lebanon.

[Silent Hunter]

J'Accuse...!

Ironic you picked that headline as the Dreyfus Affair is the reason modern Zionism exists.

[Meclazine for Israel]

[CumbrianLefty]

You might consider the historical and cultural reasons why a Hindu wouldn’t want Hindu women to marry Muslim men.

Enlighten us.

Muslim men are permitted to marry non-Muslim women, while Muslim women are forbidden to marry non-Muslim men, because (among other reasons) it’s assumed that the children of an interfaith marriage will inherit the religion of their father. So, if you’re a native population trying to maintain its identity in the face of centuries of colonization by an alien power, you might want to minimize such marriages.

How is this line of thinking any different from the people who think the same about interracial marriage "diluting" the white race?

Race and religion isn’t the same thing

The very existence of "the Jewish people" shows that it isn't quite as simple as that.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Egypt and Jordan refusing to take refugees.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/king-abdullah-gaza-no-refugees-jordan-no-refugees-egypt-2023-10-17/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/jordanian-king-warns-mideast-on-brink-of-abyss-refuses-refuge-for-fleeing-gazans/


German Chancellor Olaf Scholz (R) and Jordan’s King Abdullah II (L) shake hands after addressing a joint press conference after a meeting at the Chancellery in Berlin, Germany, on October 17, 2023. (Photo by Tobias SCHWARZ / AFP)

Jordanian King Abdullah II says that neither his country nor Egypt will accept Palestinian refugees, declaring it a “red line.”

“There will be no refugees in Jordan and no refugees in Egypt.”

I think Joe Biden needs to have a chat to these two countries and get them to re-assess their short term goals in life.

[Vosem]

I tried writing my own early timeline but it ended up way too detailed. Generally, the key events are that in 1917 Palestine is conquered by the British Empire, with the support of local Jews and Arabs; because of ideological concerns/successful lobbying the British create an immigration policy very favorable to the Jews; in reaction a genocidal movement develops among the Arabs in the 1920s/1930s; in reaction to this the familiar Jewish paramilitary organizations take shape; because of local Arab sympathy towards the Axis the revolt in 1936-1939 is defeated, and a Jewish-dominated local government runs the area; a partition plan is suggested in 1947, but refused; in an initial war a Jewish government backed by the Eastern Bloc defeats a British-backed Arab coalition.

Palestinian ethnogenesis happens later, in response to defeats taken by the other Arab powers; the PLO is not founded until 1964 and there is no independence declaration until 1988.

Was the British policy of favoritism towards Jewish immigration (which ended at 1939, and so ended up largely not helping the actual Holocaust victims) a very special policy that the locals largely did not support? Yes. (Although note that comparisons with often-very-unpopular modern immigration policies come up naturally; this is something where governments often make decisions pretty divorced from the sentiment of ordinary people, and there is no dispute that the British Mandate was the legitimate government.) But was the Palestinian liberationist ideology basically a genocidal one from the start, before there was any occupation or even a coherent sense of Palestinian ethnos? Also yes. The latter does not seem excusable or justifiable by any normal standards, except either anti-Semitism* or that very special modern leftist viewpoint where, if two parties are conflict, understood broadly, the poorer party is understood to be the more sympathetic party regardless of any other circumstances.

*Itself silly because it is an ideology hostile not only to Jews, but also Bedouin, non-Palestinian Arab governments, and in certain variations also Palestinians of the wrong religion; its fundamental tenet is "we want to kill those different from us".

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

This guy fought with the Kurds in Syria and I've been following a lot of his content as he also works with very legitimate organizations that are helping to train Ukrainian recruits, too. He talks a bit about what the tunnel campaign in Gaza might be like compared to the tunnels the peshmerga had and, needless to say, it's pretty eye opening.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

About 500 killed in hospital airstrike, say Palestinian officals

Breaking now, words can't even describe...

The number of people killed has reached 500 following the alleged air strike on a hospital - according to the Gaza health ministry spokesman.

Meanwhile, Israeli army spokesperson says the cause of the incident not known and the army are looking into the details.

The BBC is working to verify details of the alleged incident.

Pictures emerging from Al Ahli Arab hospital show scenes of chaos - with bloodied and maimed casualties being rushed out on stretchers in the darkness.

Bodies and wrecked vehicles can be seen lying in the rubble strewn street outside.

Unconfirmed videos appeared to show a huge explosion shortly beforehand.

Hundreds of displaced people had been sheltering in a hall on the hospital grounds, according to locals.

Civil defence officials say the explosion was the result of an Israeli airstrike and that hundreds are trapped in the rubble. The Israeli military says it is looking into the incident.

[DavidB.]

https://twitter.com/gaza_report/status/1714335125570191370?s=20

https://twitter.com/gaza_report/status/1714337523592208695?s=20

https://twitter.com/IsraelWarRoom/status/1714339337532555693?s=20

[Logical]

If you understand military PR lingo, "under review" means "we ***ked up and we have no idea how to respond".

[Vosem]

Per Twitter, the cause of the explosion is that a rocket depot was being held under the hospital and exploded inadvertently, most likely because an attempt to fire a rocket from that spot went awry, although it is in principle possible that there was a supremely unlucky Israeli strike. (You'd guess not, since the past few days have seen them successfully take out building floors while leaving the rest of the building intact, but it is possible).

In any case the most responsible for this is the organization keeping rocket depots under hospitals. (It is overwhelmingly likely, just as an Occam's Razor thing, that the organization directly responsible is the one firing rockets from under hospitals, though I suppose we'll hold off until there are actual statements from both sides.)

https://twitter.com/engrishmuffins/status/1714341708031541256