Israel-Gaza war

[Saint Milei]

First off, America First is an old right slogan that focuses on war. I'm the only right poster on this website so I'm the only one that can even use that phrase accurately. Secondly, the embargo on Japan was retarded and didn't help us at all. Fdr slapped the embargo to get involved more and Japans life was on the line during the war which forced them to retaliate. What benefit did the embargo provide for the u.s.? And yes, an embargo, during war times, is an actual of war.

Bold of you to suggest that you are "the only right poster on this website", but perhaps even bolder to suggest that it is possible at all to use phrases "accurately". (Consistently with prior usage, fine, but "accurately"?)

I meant old right poster, not right. And no one on here uses America first correctly.

[Saint Milei]

"what would you do?"

Yeah bro don't tell me you wouldn't go into Iraq after 911!

What does Iraq have to do with 9/11? Or was this intended as a personal insult to another poster’s intelligence, implying they would confuse the two?

I can't help you if you don't get what I said

I am willing to admit the flaws with my ideology, are you with yours . 1920s and 1930s US isolationism was a massive failure . For progressives , the Jimmy Carter presidency shows how much a failure their ideology can be on Foreign policy as well .

Face it , all our ideologies have had moments where we were correct or very wrong and acknowledging that is better than remaining such an ideologue

The u.s. literally devastated Latin American countries in central America during the 20s and 30s so calling us isolationist is laughable. It's not our fault Hitler emerged and even if it was, isolationists didn't create the environment for him to emerge.

Multiple things can be true at the same time :

You blame Hawks and Liberal Internationalists for the way they dealt with the aftermath of WW1 and helping creating the conditions for the Nazis to rise but you can also blame the isolationists for putting their head in the sand and doing nothing in the mid to late 1930s to stop Hitler . Yes mistakes you made in the past can cause massive problems but the answer to that isn’t to just ignore the problems, but rather fix the problem then learn from prior mistakes so you don’t need to deal with such a problem again .

Being so ideological when it comes to foreign policy is a massive mistake and leads to failure

We were under no obligation to stop Hitler in the 30s

[Velasco]

AI confirms the IDF is bombing the routes designated in the "order" to leave northern Gaza

https://twitter.com/amnesty/status/1713631257005830164?t=Oxk0AM5rYMZRpyXUywBGBQ&...

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

The other comment I've heard from more than one person is that while its true that the Palestinian cause has been doomed by Hamas' terror attacks, it doesn't matter because the cause was doomed anyway; that all Hamas has accomplished was to accelerate the inevitable.

Quite. To quote a line that wasn't said by the man who turned down the offer to become Israel's President: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

The Palestinians have spent 75 years engaging in violence against Israel and gone backwards.

They might have learned something from Mahatma Gandhi and his liberation movement in British India if they bothered to early on.  Oh well.  They chose the path of violence, and this is where they ended up -staring down the barrel of genocide.

They tried that a few years ago and got massacred. Unreal levels of depravity on this forum.
https://twitter.com/halaljew/status/1713302344144695379?t=hBxn8JxKYHc7-OTsmUXpjg...

[NOVA Green]

Meanwhile tensions continue to escalate on the Israeli-Lebanese border.

Sure there are traditional playbooks which historically both Hezbollah and IDF do measured proportionate responses whenever tensions heat up.

This latest action appears to be not from Hezbollah, but rather from Hamas military units in South Lebanon.

The IDF and Hezbollah on Sunday had one of the most tense days in the North of the nine-day-old war which to date has still mostly been focused on Gaza.

At the same time, the IDF continued to move closer to the point at which it will invade Gaza, though there were bouts of rain during the day and ongoing negotiations internally within Israel about the war's aims as well as external negotiations about evacuating Palestinian civilians and humanitarian issues.

Sirens were heard in western Galilee on Sunday afternoon close to the Lebanon border in the towns of Nahariya, Rosh Hanikra, Hanita, Gesher HaZiv, Betzet, and Shlomi.

Confusingly, Hamas in Lebanon took responsibility for the rocket fire.

A spokesperson for the Galilee Medical Center in Nahariya announced they received eight people who had been wounded by the rocket fire.

The IDF responded by attacking military infrastructure in southern Lebanon with helicopters.

Besides Hamas in Lebanon, there were also reports of Hezbollah firing systematically to destroy IDF border surveillance equipment to blind its early warning invasion capabilities, much as Hamas made sure to eliminate many IDF border surveillance capabilities on October 7 as it was invading Israel's Gaza corridor. The IDF returned fire, but Hezbollah has been claiming publicly that it is hitting Israel harder than the hits it is receiving in return.

https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/2023-10-15/live-updates-768422

[NOVA Green]

Meanwhile tensions continue to escalate on the Israeli-Lebanese border.

Sure there are traditional playbooks which historically both Hezbollah and IDF do measured proportionate responses whenever tensions heat up.

This latest action appears to be not from Hezbollah, but rather from Hamas military units in South Lebanon.

The IDF and Hezbollah on Sunday had one of the most tense days in the North of the nine-day-old war which to date has still mostly been focused on Gaza.

At the same time, the IDF continued to move closer to the point at which it will invade Gaza, though there were bouts of rain during the day and ongoing negotiations internally within Israel about the war's aims as well as external negotiations about evacuating Palestinian civilians and humanitarian issues.

Sirens were heard in western Galilee on Sunday afternoon close to the Lebanon border in the towns of Nahariya, Rosh Hanikra, Hanita, Gesher HaZiv, Betzet, and Shlomi.

Confusingly, Hamas in Lebanon took responsibility for the rocket fire.

A spokesperson for the Galilee Medical Center in Nahariya announced they received eight people who had been wounded by the rocket fire.

The IDF responded by attacking military infrastructure in southern Lebanon with helicopters.

Besides Hamas in Lebanon, there were also reports of Hezbollah firing systematically to destroy IDF border surveillance equipment to blind its early warning invasion capabilities, much as Hamas made sure to eliminate many IDF border surveillance capabilities on October 7 as it was invading Israel's Gaza corridor. The IDF returned fire, but Hezbollah has been claiming publicly that it is hitting Israel harder than the hits it is receiving in return.

https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/2023-10-15/live-updates-768422

NOVA GREEN Senior

Yes, thank you very much for attempting to keep this thread on topic.

I am surprised that you didn't mention that the Israeli strikes in Lebanon actually hit Hezbollah targets, and not Hamas targets.

The Israel Defense Forces says it has just struck Hezbollah “military infrastructure” in Lebanon.

A video released by the military shows two buildings being shelled, at least one from the sky. It says the attacks seen in the video were carried out Sunday and early Monday.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-october-15-2023/

Keep it up NOVA GREEN Sr. , I like what you are doing here.

Much thanks NOVA GREEN Jr.

[Velasco]

The other comment I've heard from more than one person is that while its true that the Palestinian cause has been doomed by Hamas' terror attacks, it doesn't matter because the cause was doomed anyway; that all Hamas has accomplished was to accelerate the inevitable.

Quite. To quote a line that wasn't said by the man who turned down the offer to become Israel's President: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

The Palestinians have spent 75 years engaging in violence against Israel and gone backwards.

They might have learned something from Mahatma Gandhi and his liberation movement in British India if they bothered to early on.  Oh well.  They chose the path of violence, and this is where they ended up -staring down the barrel of genocide.

They tried that a few years ago and got massacred. Unreal levels of depravity on this forum.

Indeed, this kind of moralyzing posts claiming that Palestinians have a taste for violence and bear a collective guilt for the terrorist actions committed by some groups is appalling. The IDF massacred the March for Return, a peaceful demonstration by the border fence in Gaza

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/two-years-on-people-injured-and-traumatized-during-the-great-march....

  Israeli forces responded by shooting tear gas canisters, some of them dropped from drones, rubber bullets and live ammunition, mostly by snipers. As a result, 214 Palestinians, including 46 children, were killed, and over 36,100, including nearly 8,800 children have been injured. 

Peaceful resistance does not guarantee a peaceful response by a repressive state. The March for Return was basically telling Israeli authorities "Let My People Go". The soldiers opened deadly fire

[NOVA Green]

Israel flying military commanders over Gaza in anticipation of upcoming Ground Invasion / Offensive Ops into Gaza proper.

First confirmed strikes against Palestinian Islamic Jihad targets.

Certainly one must wonder about the status of the hostages, considering IJ is estimated to have roughly (30) hostages, which they want to exchange for their PP/POWs.

The Israeli Air Force has been taking top ground forces commanders for sorties over the Gaza Strip in recent days in order to familiarize them with the territory and provide them a bird’s eye view of the territory in which the military is expected to maneuver as part of a ground incursion, The Times of Israel learned on Sunday.

Brigade and battalion commanders, many of whom have never been inside the Strip which Israel left in 2005, were shown from combat helicopters where ground troops are expected to enter and advance during the looming ground offensive.

As aircraft continued to pound Gaza terror targets, the military said Sunday night it had struck and killed a senior Hamas commander, Muataz Eid, the head of national security for the terror group’s southern district.

The military said it had struck more than 250 targets throughout the Strip over the course of the day, mostly in its north. The targets included Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad military headquarters, observation posts and several rocket launching sites.

NOVA GREEN Sr. Verified Post


https://www.timesofisrael.com/air-force-flying-ground-forces-commanders-over-strip-ahead-of-expected-offensive/

[Frodo]

The other comment I've heard from more than one person is that while its true that the Palestinian cause has been doomed by Hamas' terror attacks, it doesn't matter because the cause was doomed anyway; that all Hamas has accomplished was to accelerate the inevitable.

Quite. To quote a line that wasn't said by the man who turned down the offer to become Israel's President: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

The Palestinians have spent 75 years engaging in violence against Israel and gone backwards.

They might have learned something from Mahatma Gandhi and his liberation movement in British India if they bothered to early on.  Oh well.  They chose the path of violence, and this is where they ended up -staring down the barrel of genocide.

They tried that a few years ago and got massacred. Unreal levels of depravity on this forum.

Indeed, this kind of moralyzing posts claiming that Palestinians have a taste for violence and bear a collective guilt for the terrorist actions committed by some groups are appalling. The IDF massacred the March for Return a peaceful demonstration by the border fence in Gaza

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/two-years-on-people-injured-and-traumatized-during-the-great-march....

  Israeli forces responded by shooting tear gas canisters, some of them dropped from drones, rubber bullets and live ammunition, mostly by snipers. As a result, 214 Palestinians, including 46 children, were killed, and over 36,100, including nearly 8,800 children have been injured. 

There were similar massacres of Indian nationalist protesters, most infamously the 1919 Amritsar massacre.  That did not stop Gandhi and his fellow liberationists from following the path of non-violence and civil disobedience.  That does not appear to be what happened in Palestine.  After that one massacre, that was it for pacifism.  So yes, I think Palestinians already were predisposed to use violence to achieve their ends, much more so than their Indian counterparts. 

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1713427954024300971?s=20

[Vosem]

The reason for opening fire in 2018-19 was that (according to Israeli intelligence, as at least not contradicted by other nations), the marches were a cover for Hamas to launch an attack much like the one that took place this last weekend. I applauded the actions at the time, and it says something very negative about 2023 Israel that they were unready for something that, in 2018-19, they were continuously watching for.

Anyway, the problem is not 'violence' versus 'nonviolence'. The problem is that the goals of Palestinian liberationism are bad and wrong. The ideology should be abandoned. There can then be independence.

https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1713427954024300971?s=20

I came across Ambassador Gilon's Twitter page yesterday -- if there's one guy who comes out of this looking good, it's the Israeli Ambassador to India. Just unreal outpouring of support, apparently with mass volunteering of people to go and fight for the IDF, though I don't know (suspect not) whether the infrastructure exists for that to actually happen.

[NOVA Green]

https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1713427954024300971?s=20

What the heck is this?

I get it that cricket is a big deal in South Asia, as well as places such as England, New Zealand, and Australia.

I know that the World Cup of cricket is going on with the final game in November. I have even briefly bantered about this recently with a couple Indian-American friends who work at the mini-mart across the street.

Are you saying that Pakistan is supporting Hamas, and India is supporting Israel?

Is one side not playing cricket? India's cricket team is roughly 18% Muslim (Roughly same as % of total pop within India).

Yet Muslim cricket players for Indian teams have faced systematic harassment and abuse from fans, including leading BJP political leaders.

Confused in Oregon...

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1713427954024300971?s=20

What the heck is this?

I get it that cricket is a big deal in South Asia, as well as places such as England, New Zealand, and Australia.

I know that the World Cup of cricket is going on with the final game in November. I have even briefly bantered about this recently with a couple Indian-American friends who work at the mini-mart across the street.

Are you saying that Pakistan is supporting Hamas, and India is supporting Israel?

Is one side not playing cricket? India's cricket team is roughly 18% Muslim (Roughly same as % of total pop within India).

Yet Muslim cricket players for Indian teams have faced systematic harassment and abuse from fans, including leading BJP political leaders.

Confused in Oregon...

Modi came out 100% in Support of Israel while Pakistan started going after Israel hard:

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/pakistan-zaman-mehdi-comment-un-human-rights-council-so-called-declaration-of-war-israel-hamas-conflict-2447145-2023-10-10

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

I like that no one even pretends to dispute why Hindu nationalists love Israel so much.

[Velasco]

The other comment I've heard from more than one person is that while its true that the Palestinian cause has been doomed by Hamas' terror attacks, it doesn't matter because the cause was doomed anyway; that all Hamas has accomplished was to accelerate the inevitable.

Quite. To quote a line that wasn't said by the man who turned down the offer to become Israel's President: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

The Palestinians have spent 75 years engaging in violence against Israel and gone backwards.

They might have learned something from Mahatma Gandhi and his liberation movement in British India if they bothered to early on.  Oh well.  They chose the path of violence, and this is where they ended up -staring down the barrel of genocide.

They tried that a few years ago and got massacred. Unreal levels of depravity on this forum.

Indeed, this kind of moralyzing posts claiming that Palestinians have a taste for violence and bear a collective guilt for the terrorist actions committed by some groups are appalling. The IDF massacred the March for Return a peaceful demonstration by the border fence in Gaza

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/two-years-on-people-injured-and-traumatized-during-the-great-march....

  Israeli forces responded by shooting tear gas canisters, some of them dropped from drones, rubber bullets and live ammunition, mostly by snipers. As a result, 214 Palestinians, including 46 children, were killed, and over 36,100, including nearly 8,800 children have been injured. 

There were similar massacres of Indian nationalist protesters, most infamously the 1919 Amritsar massacre.  That did not stop Gandhi and his fellow liberationists from following the path of non-violence and civil disobedience.  That does not appear to be what happened in Palestine.  After that one massacre, that was it for pacifism.  So yes, I think Palestinians already were predisposed to use violence to achieve their ends, much more so than their Indian counterparts. 

 I think it's a tragedy the Palestinian people never had a leading political figure with the stature of Mahatma Ghandi, Martin Luther King or Nelson Mandela. For sure a clear leadership could have helped the Palestinian struggle for dignity. I'm certain that peaceful resistance could be very effective with a good strategy, but sadly the Palestinian people is divided and lacks unifying figures. You can't blame the common Palestinians that try to survive blockade in Gaza,and apartheid in the West Bank. Life is hard enough for them.

On the other hand, there is a lot of peaceful resistance throughout the Occupied Territories,  people trying to resist evictions and forced fisplacements in the West Bank or East Jerusalem... or simply protesting against the humiliations of the occupying forces. That resistance is weak and fragmented, mostly because Israel's strategy has been successful and makes Palestinian unity extremely difficult. There's little in common between Palestine today and India 100 years ago.

Finally I dispute the claim that Palestinians are more predisposed to violence than other peoples, namely the Indians. The Indian resistance could have followed many other paths without the figure of Mahatma Ghandi. Also, the violence and ethnic cleansing unleashed after the independence of India and Pakistan refutes your claim.

Be careful when attribiting bad traits to certain peoples. It may sound a bit racist

[PSOL]

Did Hezbollah actually capture an Israeli military installation by the border?

[OSR stands with Israel]

I like that no one even pretends to dispute why Hindu nationalists love Israel so much.

Hindus feel solidarity for Jews and Israel in general given how similar our history has been. We were oppressed by the two major religions for centuries and then for decades both India and Israel have been attacked over and over by radical Islamists

[Frodo]

The other comment I've heard from more than one person is that while its true that the Palestinian cause has been doomed by Hamas' terror attacks, it doesn't matter because the cause was doomed anyway; that all Hamas has accomplished was to accelerate the inevitable.

Quite. To quote a line that wasn't said by the man who turned down the offer to become Israel's President: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

The Palestinians have spent 75 years engaging in violence against Israel and gone backwards.

They might have learned something from Mahatma Gandhi and his liberation movement in British India if they bothered to early on.  Oh well.  They chose the path of violence, and this is where they ended up -staring down the barrel of genocide.

They tried that a few years ago and got massacred. Unreal levels of depravity on this forum.

Indeed, this kind of moralyzing posts claiming that Palestinians have a taste for violence and bear a collective guilt for the terrorist actions committed by some groups are appalling. The IDF massacred the March for Return a peaceful demonstration by the border fence in Gaza

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/two-years-on-people-injured-and-traumatized-during-the-great-mar.....

  Israeli forces responded by shooting tear gas canisters, some of them dropped from drones, rubber bullets and live ammunition, mostly by snipers. As a result, 214 Palestinians, including 46 children, were killed, and over 36,100, including nearly 8,800 children have been injured. 

There were similar massacres of Indian nationalist protesters, most infamously the 1919 Amritsar massacre.  That did not stop Gandhi and his fellow liberationists from following the path of non-violence and civil disobedience.  That does not appear to be what happened in Palestine.  After that one massacre, that was it for pacifism.  So yes, I think Palestinians already were predisposed to use violence to achieve their ends, much more so than their Indian counterparts. 

 I think it's a tragedy the Palestinian people never had a leading political figure with the stature of Mahatma Ghandi, Martin Luther King or Nelson Mandela. For sure a clear leadership could have helped the Palestinian struggle for dignity. I'm certain that peaceful resistance could be very effective with a good strategy, but sadly the Palestinian people is divided and lacks unifying figures. You can't blame the common Palestinians that try to survive blockade in Gaza,and apartheid in the West Bank. Life is hard enough for them.

On the other hand, there is a lot of peaceful resistance throughout the Occupied Territories,  people trying to resist evictions and forced fisplacements in the West Bank or East Jerusalem... or simply protesting against the humiliations of the occupying forces. That resistance is weak and fragmented, mostly because Israel's strategy has been successful and makes Palestinian unity extremely difficult. There's little in common between Palestine today and India 100 years ago.

Finally I dispute the claim that Palestinians are more predisposed to violence than other peoples, namely the Indians. The Indian resistance could have followed many other paths without the figure of Mahatma Ghandi. Also, the violence and ethnic cleansing unleashed after the independence of India and Pakistan refutes your claim.

Be careful when attribiting bad traits to certain peoples. It may sound a bit racist

It is a pity they chose Yasser Arafat as their larger-than-life liberation figure. 

[jojoju1998]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/178nf31/the_state_of_israel_is_beefing_with_gigi_hadid/

[Meclazine for Israel]

Trump predicts Hamas will attack southern United States in a similar border incursion to October 7.

Hamas Mexico Wing

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyZHqNauOjl/

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

I like that no one even pretends to dispute why Hindu nationalists love Israel so much.

Hindus feel solidarity for Jews and Israel in general given how similar our history has been. We were oppressed by the two major religions for centuries and then for decades both India and Israel have been attacked over and over by radical Islamists

Yes, we know how oppressive it is for you when a Hindu woman chooses to marry a Muslim man.

[NOVA Green]

Trump predicts Hamas will attack southern United States in a similar border incursion to October 7.

Hamas Mexico Wing

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyZHqNauOjl/

Sad thing is that many Americans might well believe this crap.

Still, support for Israel, across both aisles is still much stronger than support for Ukraine.

Activities from Hamas and Hezbollah agents in the USA have traditionally focused much more on "rear base" stuff, such as funneling money from activities such as illegal cigarette sales, informal taxes on businesses within the diaspora, as well as perhaps political lobbying and influencing operations.

The entire concept that Hamas or Hezbollah would create a mass terrorist spectacular event on American soil is complete S**T.

Really what Trump is trying to do here is to appeal to potential swing voters both within the Republican Primary electorate, as well as potentially trying to message to Jewish-American voters, whom might well compose potential swing voters in narrow elections states such as PA, WI, MI, and NV.

Attempting to blend the fear of illegal border swarms with Hamas is par for the course.

Some Atlas posters likely do not remember that Trump's idol is Richard Nixon, but still regardless of Watergate and the illegal carpet bombing of Cambodia, I strongly suspect that history will view Nixon in a more favorable light than Trump.

[NOVA Green]

Did Hezbollah actually capture an Israeli military installation by the border?

??

Sources...

[Pres Mike]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/15/us/politics/biden-israel-gaza.html

President Biden is warning Israel not occupy Gaza, since it will be a disaster. He does says he supports any military effort to destroy Hamas. But afterwards, the Gaza strip needs to be returned to the Palestitian Authroity like pre-2006.

[Senator Incitatus]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/178nf31/the_state_of_israel_is_beefing_with_gigi_hadid/

This seems like an extremely bizarre way for Israel to lose diplomatic favor. No need for this.