Israel-Gaza war

[Aurelius2]

Video from 2021 to illustrate some of the things Palestinians always had to endure and yet it never was worth getting the “Western outrage” like they give it to Ukraine:

~Invading someone else’s land to take it for you is evil and wrong and opens a dangerous precedent where this kind of stuff is validated as fair game!~

Depends on the color of your skin and religion, apparently.

You called Israel part of the "global south" when it was palling around with various dictatorships, and have repeatedly expressed a desire for the West to stop "lecturing" the global south. Our leaders are monstrously hypocritical, but you, personally, have no place to talk.

Reducing it to race is idiotic, too. There are plenty of Palestinians who look whiter than your average Israeli, and they get little to no more sympathy than the rest of them.

I already showed him some pictures of average Israelis to try to dissuade him from this race reductionist talk but it didn't seem to have any effect.

Both Israelis and Palestinians are "off white" for lack of a better term if you insist on classifying them into discrete racial groups.

[Red Velvet]

Video from 2021 to illustrate some of the things Palestinians always had to endure and yet it never was worth getting the “Western outrage” like they give it to Ukraine:

~Invading someone else’s land to take it for you is evil and wrong and opens a dangerous precedent where this kind of stuff is validated as fair game!~

Depends on the color of your skin and religion, apparently.

You called Israel part of the "global south" when it was palling around with various dictatorships, and have repeatedly expressed a desire for the West to stop "lecturing" the global south. Our leaders are monstrously hypocritical, but you, personally, have no place to talk.

Reducing it to race is idiotic, too. There are plenty of Palestinians who look whiter than your average Israeli, and they get little to no more sympathy than the rest of them.

Unless current world order is reformed and true “values-based” internationalism is applied then these abuses and hypocrisy will keep happening because countries will unilaterally try to push for their selfish interests over “morality”.

I don’t know why you’re comparing me with western leader though. I wasn’t aware of my power? I am not the one trying to pass by as a morally perfect liberal hero that always stands up for goodness - even if I’m closer to defending that compared to you - I simply  point out what I see.

And I do it not because I think it’s inherently “wrong” to push for your self-interests considering how chaotic and with no-rule international relations and order are. What annoys me are the false moral arguments being instrumentalized for the sake of self-interests simply because it’s not honest.

If someone can act on their self-interest then everyone can. We either build a new order where same rules and consequences apply to everyone or else the same chaos and war will keep existing.

The obstacle to this are exactly the bigger powers who WANT to keep having opening to commit abuses when it services them and are not willing to abdicate to international rules. Russia, USA, China and even Europe.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Palestinians and Sephardim/Mizrahi Jews are both basically olive-skinned (with a great deal of variation) Mediterranean people. Silly thing to get hung up on.

[Velasco]

It's certainly a disgrace. We (the western world and its liberal values) will pay a high price for it

https://twitter.com/mattduss/status/1713210261996462512?t=bM7yVJGecfofH5zcd3hd5w...

No one with a brain buys the ~west cares about the liberal order~ propaganda discourse outside the West.

The West has propelled dictatorships and genocide when it saw that as aligned to their material self-interests. They use liberalism and democracy as an instrument only, not as a goal, especially in foreign countries.

If a democracy starts going against their interests on any matter, they will promote regime change undercover and more discreetly. If an autocracy starts doing that, then they will be more open about it and justify it as fighting terrorism or dictatorship in name of liberal values.

However, if a democracy or an autocracy aligns with their interests, they will treat as “liberal allies” no matter the horrors they may commit when they happen to be a dictatorship.

I don't buy most of your arguments, but no doubt that most of the folks attacking you without caring to address the fundamental question stressed above are, in fact, validating you

And of course what you are arguing in this post is correct: the West is blatantly hypocrites. Most of the times I prefer Western hypocrisy to the barbarism of autocracies. However, when it comes to situations like this, the West is validating the claims of autocratic regimes. Israel’s disregard of fundamental human rights is impossible to hide and the brutal nature of its response is impossible to tolerate, even in these tragic circumstances

[Red Velvet]

It's certainly a disgrace. We (the western world and its liberal values) will pay a high price for it

https://twitter.com/mattduss/status/1713210261996462512?t=bM7yVJGecfofH5zcd3hd5w...

No one with a brain buys the ~west cares about the liberal order~ propaganda discourse outside the West.

The West has propelled dictatorships and genocide when it saw that as aligned to their material self-interests. They use liberalism and democracy as an instrument only, not as a goal, especially in foreign countries.

If a democracy starts going against their interests on any matter, they will promote regime change undercover and more discreetly. If an autocracy starts doing that, then they will be more open about it and justify it as fighting terrorism or dictatorship in name of liberal values.

However, if a democracy or an autocracy aligns with their interests, they will treat as “liberal allies” no matter the horrors they may commit when they happen to be a dictatorship.

I don't buy most of your arguments, but no doubt that most of the folks attacking you without caring to address the fundamental question stressed above are, in fact, validating you

I know they are, whenever people get too aggressive over politics arguments is either because you have offended them on some level (like supporting homophobia to a gay person will naturally entitle such a response) OR because you made a good valid point they don’t know how to respond to but feel threatened because it goes against their established beliefs.

Since I am always respectful bringing up my opinions, I know it’s the latter.

[Comrade Funk]

This thread is useless. And it's the same people

[Hindsight was 2020]

It's certainly a disgrace. We (the western world and its liberal values) will pay a high price for it

https://twitter.com/mattduss/status/1713210261996462512?t=bM7yVJGecfofH5zcd3hd5w...

No one with a brain buys the ~west cares about the liberal order~ propaganda discourse outside the West.

The West has propelled dictatorships and genocide when it saw that as aligned to their material self-interests. They use liberalism and democracy as an instrument only, not as a goal, especially in foreign countries.

If a democracy starts going against their interests on any matter, they will promote regime change undercover and more discreetly. If an autocracy starts doing that, then they will be more open about it and justify it as fighting terrorism or dictatorship in name of liberal values.

However, if a democracy or an autocracy aligns with their interests, they will treat as “liberal allies” no matter the horrors they may commit when they happen to be a dictatorship.

I don't buy most of your arguments, but no doubt that most of the folks attacking you without caring to address the fundamental question stressed above are, in fact, validating you

Most of us don’t have patience for a poster who (by his own standards) supports genocide of Ukrainians saying how westerners are bunch of hypocrites especially when most westerners here made upset about how Palestinians are treated

[OSR stands with Israel]

I have a question:

How is Hamas supposed to be destroyed with Israel Sieging Gaza. Like there is no good solutions to this, but Gaza will have to be invaded and occupied 

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

It's certainly a disgrace. We (the western world and its liberal values) will pay a high price for it

https://twitter.com/mattduss/status/1713210261996462512?t=bM7yVJGecfofH5zcd3hd5w...

No one with a brain buys the ~west cares about the liberal order~ propaganda discourse outside the West.

The West has propelled dictatorships and genocide when it saw that as aligned to their material self-interests. They use liberalism and democracy as an instrument only, not as a goal, especially in foreign countries.

If a democracy starts going against their interests on any matter, they will promote regime change undercover and more discreetly. If an autocracy starts doing that, then they will be more open about it and justify it as fighting terrorism or dictatorship in name of liberal values.

However, if a democracy or an autocracy aligns with their interests, they will treat as “liberal allies” no matter the horrors they may commit when they happen to be a dictatorship.

I don't buy most of your arguments, but no doubt that most of the folks attacking you without caring to address the fundamental question stressed above are, in fact, validating you

Most of use don’t have patience for a poster who (by his own standards) supports genocide of Ukrainians saying how westerners are bunch of hypocrites especially when most westerners here made upset about how Palestinians are treated

I don't think RV is a hypocrite per se. He has a Kissingerian worldview where all that matters is who's on whose side and who's not, only he's on a different side than Kissinger. What's infuriating is his belief that anyone who claims nobler motives must be lying, but that's different from hypocrisy.

[Coldstream]

It's certainly a disgrace. We (the western world and its liberal values) will pay a high price for it

https://twitter.com/mattduss/status/1713210261996462512?t=bM7yVJGecfofH5zcd3hd5w...

No one with a brain buys the ~west cares about the liberal order~ propaganda discourse outside the West.

The West has propelled dictatorships and genocide when it saw that as aligned to their material self-interests. They use liberalism and democracy as an instrument only, not as a goal, especially in foreign countries.

If a democracy starts going against their interests on any matter, they will promote regime change undercover and more discreetly. If an autocracy starts doing that, then they will be more open about it and justify it as fighting terrorism or dictatorship in name of liberal values.

However, if a democracy or an autocracy aligns with their interests, they will treat as “liberal allies” no matter the horrors they may commit when they happen to be a dictatorship.

I don't buy most of your arguments, but no doubt that most of the folks attacking you without caring to address the fundamental question stressed above are, in fact, validating you

I know they are, whenever people get too aggressive over politics arguments is either because you have offended them on some level (like supporting homophobia to a gay person will naturally entitle such a response) OR because you made a good valid point they don’t know how to respond to but feel threatened because it goes against their established beliefs.

Since I am always respectful bringing up my opinions, I know it’s the latter.

Aside from a solipsist obsession with the idea that everyone else is a hypocrite, you don’t have any opinions.

[kaoras]

It's certainly a disgrace. We (the western world and its liberal values) will pay a high price for it

https://twitter.com/mattduss/status/1713210261996462512?t=bM7yVJGecfofH5zcd3hd5w...

No one with a brain buys the ~west cares about the liberal order~ propaganda discourse outside the West.

The West has propelled dictatorships and genocide when it saw that as aligned to their material self-interests. They use liberalism and democracy as an instrument only, not as a goal, especially in foreign countries.

If a democracy starts going against their interests on any matter, they will promote regime change undercover and more discreetly. If an autocracy starts doing that, then they will be more open about it and justify it as fighting terrorism or dictatorship in name of liberal values.

However, if a democracy or an autocracy aligns with their interests, they will treat as “liberal allies” no matter the horrors they may commit when they happen to be a dictatorship.

I don't buy most of your arguments, but no doubt that most of the folks attacking you without caring to address the fundamental question stressed above are, in fact, validating you

Most of use don’t have patience for a poster who (by his own standards) supports genocide of Ukrainians saying how westerners are bunch of hypocrites especially when most westerners here made upset about how Palestinians are treated

I don't think RV is a hypocrite per se. He has a Kissingerian worldview where all that matters is who's on whose side and who's not, only he's on a different side than Kissinger. What's infuriating is his belief that anyone who claims nobler motives must be lying, but that's different from hypocrisy.

No, actually if you read the Brasil thread he is the same kind of person that he absolutely hates in other countries' political context so he is indeed a massive hypocrite.

[Velasco]

[
Most of us don’t have patience for a poster who (by his own standards) supports genocide of Ukrainians saying how westerners are bunch of hypocrites especially when most westerners here made upset about how Palestinians are treated

I haven't followed the Ukraine-Russia war thread enough to know all his arguments, but I suspect I would be on the opposite side of him on this question. However,  in what concerns the hypocrisy and the double standards of the West (Israel-Palestine vs Russia-Ukraine is a perfect example),  I am afraid most people here are validating him

[Red Velvet]

It's certainly a disgrace. We (the western world and its liberal values) will pay a high price for it

https://twitter.com/mattduss/status/1713210261996462512?t=bM7yVJGecfofH5zcd3hd5w...

No one with a brain buys the ~west cares about the liberal order~ propaganda discourse outside the West.

The West has propelled dictatorships and genocide when it saw that as aligned to their material self-interests. They use liberalism and democracy as an instrument only, not as a goal, especially in foreign countries.

If a democracy starts going against their interests on any matter, they will promote regime change undercover and more discreetly. If an autocracy starts doing that, then they will be more open about it and justify it as fighting terrorism or dictatorship in name of liberal values.

However, if a democracy or an autocracy aligns with their interests, they will treat as “liberal allies” no matter the horrors they may commit when they happen to be a dictatorship.

I don't buy most of your arguments, but no doubt that most of the folks attacking you without caring to address the fundamental question stressed above are, in fact, validating you

Most of use don’t have patience for a poster who (by his own standards) supports genocide of Ukrainians saying how westerners are bunch of hypocrites especially when most westerners here made upset about how Palestinians are treated

I don't think RV is a hypocrite per se. He has a Kissingerian worldview where all that matters is who's on whose side and who's not, only he's on a different side than Kissinger. What's infuriating is his belief that anyone who claims nobler motives must be lying, but that's different from hypocrisy.

I don’t believe in that at all. What happens is that I understand that this is how the real world actually works to this day and how leaderships base themselves to act on. Actions matter more than words and virtue-signaling.

Or else, how do YOU explain the Western leaders hypocrisy that Velasco was asking about? Before you all derailed their point in another smokescreen performance in order to try avoiding that conversation once again?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

https://twitter.com/tomgara/status/1713242053100847556

[Ferguson97]

I have a question:

How is Hamas supposed to be destroyed with Israel Sieging Gaza. Like there is no good solutions to this, but Gaza will have to be invaded and occupied 

Invading and occupying Gaza will radicalize Palestinians into supporting Hamas. If a foreign government invaded your country, blew up your home, killed your family, and forced you to leave your city and march south, how would you feel?

[Aurelius2]

I have a question:

How is Hamas supposed to be destroyed with Israel Sieging Gaza. Like there is no good solutions to this, but Gaza will have to be invaded and occupied 

Invading and occupying Gaza will radicalize Palestinians into supporting Hamas. If a foreign government invaded your country, blew up your home, killed your family, and forced you to leave your city and march south, how would you feel?

That doesn't answer the question of how the hell Israel is supposed to get rid of Hamas otherwise. There is no easy option here.

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1713278701746655358

[OSR stands with Israel]

I have a question:

How is Hamas supposed to be destroyed with Israel Sieging Gaza. Like there is no good solutions to this, but Gaza will have to be invaded and occupied 

Invading and occupying Gaza will radicalize Palestinians into supporting Hamas. If a foreign government invaded your country, blew up your home, killed your family, and forced you to leave your city and march south, how would you feel?

That is why I said what needs to be done is similar to what we did in Germany after 1945. You have to implement a policy similar to Denazification in Gaza and debrainwash them

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Putin and Zelensky have given their thoughts and its quite telling


https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-israeli-ground-operation-gaza-will-result-civilian-losses-2023-10-13/

Russian President Vladimir Putin cautioned Israel on Friday against laying siege to Gaza in the same way that Nazi Germany besieged Leningrad, saying a ground offensive there would lead to an "absolutely unacceptable" number of civilian casualties.

Putin said Israel had been subjected to "an attack unprecedented in its cruelty" by Hamas militants, but was responding with cruel methods of its own.

He said there had been calls even in the United States for a blockade of the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip on a par with "the siege of Leningrad during World War Two".

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/11/zelensky-israel-hamas-war-gaza-visit-netanyahu

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky wants to visit Israel in a show of solidarity with the country amid the fighting in Gaza, two Ukrainian and Israeli officials told Axios.

Zelensky will not be allowed to visit Israel and this is now a diplomatic dead end (at least he was smart enough to get it out there before the IDF response began in earnest). If the Ukrainian government plays their cards cleverly, we won't be hearing much more on this from him, as it'll risk burning sympathy in the Middle East for diminishing returns.

Putin's criticisms will cost him little: they'll find more global support than most of what the Russian state says and does these days. Netanyahu will not rebuff Putin because doing so would cast their existing relationship in a poor light to the Israeli electorate, and because he is an old friend. Their relationship has strengthened trade between the states and most likely deepened each of their personal fortunes.

Especially while Netanyahu is in power, these statements (and the new conflict) will not improve the Israeli approach to Russia and Ukraine. If anything, it may get worse if Israel finds itself facing a munitions shortage and sees shrinking aid to Ukraine as a means to solve it.

Diplomatic tensions re-emerged faster than I thought. It's not that major, but I haven't heard of any other ambassadors protesting like this:

https://twitter.com/grntmedia/status/1713269235240034374?t=ouNnNZkmEgNUXLjqJdDlk...
The refugees who fled Ukraine to Israel and Palestine might be among the most unfortunate dual citizens today.

Edit: [machine translation]

Today, 2 hours before the evacuation of Ukrainians and foreigners from the Gaza Strip, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Israel announced for unknown reasons that they do not guarantee safety and revoke the permission. This was announced by the Ukrainian Ombudsman.

"There is already an official statement from our Ministry of Foreign Affairs, our ambassador sent an official note of protest.

From Israel, we ask that this crossing point be safe and not bombed. From the Palestinian authorities - to simply allow our citizens to leave, and the Egyptian authorities - to simply accept them," he says.

[Red Velvet]

It's certainly a disgrace. We (the western world and its liberal values) will pay a high price for it

https://twitter.com/mattduss/status/1713210261996462512?t=bM7yVJGecfofH5zcd3hd5w...

No one with a brain buys the ~west cares about the liberal order~ propaganda discourse outside the West.

The West has propelled dictatorships and genocide when it saw that as aligned to their material self-interests. They use liberalism and democracy as an instrument only, not as a goal, especially in foreign countries.

If a democracy starts going against their interests on any matter, they will promote regime change undercover and more discreetly. If an autocracy starts doing that, then they will be more open about it and justify it as fighting terrorism or dictatorship in name of liberal values.

However, if a democracy or an autocracy aligns with their interests, they will treat as “liberal allies” no matter the horrors they may commit when they happen to be a dictatorship.

I don't buy most of your arguments, but no doubt that most of the folks attacking you without caring to address the fundamental question stressed above are, in fact, validating you

Most of us don’t have patience for a poster who (by his own standards) supports genocide of Ukrainians saying how westerners are bunch of hypocrites especially when most westerners here made upset about how Palestinians are treated

Gurl, even you don’t believe in that. Read the thread again to see some of the savage stuff said about Palestinians that gets ignored or accepted while an average comment of mine about Westerners hypocrisy gets outrage lol

OSR last comment about Palestinians is a great example.

You and most people here are with the side you identify your own figures more with. And that’s fine. But y’all need to let go of the “moral argument” false protection you use to feel better about that stuff.

This is why I tend to prefer western conservatives like OSR who outright say it because it allows you to know the rules of the game. Liberals believe in the EXACT same stuff and act the same exact way, but they feel more guilty about it so they need to build all this moral narrative story to feel validated.

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

It's certainly a disgrace. We (the western world and its liberal values) will pay a high price for it

https://twitter.com/mattduss/status/1713210261996462512?t=bM7yVJGecfofH5zcd3hd5w...

No one with a brain buys the ~west cares about the liberal order~ propaganda discourse outside the West.

The West has propelled dictatorships and genocide when it saw that as aligned to their material self-interests. They use liberalism and democracy as an instrument only, not as a goal, especially in foreign countries.

If a democracy starts going against their interests on any matter, they will promote regime change undercover and more discreetly. If an autocracy starts doing that, then they will be more open about it and justify it as fighting terrorism or dictatorship in name of liberal values.

However, if a democracy or an autocracy aligns with their interests, they will treat as “liberal allies” no matter the horrors they may commit when they happen to be a dictatorship.

I don't buy most of your arguments, but no doubt that most of the folks attacking you without caring to address the fundamental question stressed above are, in fact, validating you

Most of us don’t have patience for a poster who (by his own standards) supports genocide of Ukrainians saying how westerners are bunch of hypocrites especially when most westerners here made upset about how Palestinians are treated

Upset but somehow no calls for no-fly zones, or sanctions, or sending supplies to Gaza, or treating Israel as a pariah state like South Africa. Mostly a lot of hand wringing and "what can you do?"s from the same people who were most enthusiastic about unending support for Ukraine. RV can make some pretty boneheaded and shortsighted posts but in this case he is absolutely 100% correct

"If only we had some sort of measure we use against countries that violated international law!"

I have a question:

How is Hamas supposed to be destroyed with Israel Sieging Gaza. Like there is no good solutions to this, but Gaza will have to be invaded and occupied 

Times of Israel: "For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces" – The policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from by Tal Schneider https://timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Haaretz: "Both the Egyptians and the Qataris are angry with Hamas, and they were going to cut all ties with them. All of a sudden Netanyahu shows up as a Hamas advocate, pressuring Egypt and the Qataris to continue” with the financial support." https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east...transfer/0000017f-ded8-d856-a37f-ffd88a960000

Mil Intel Dir Yadlin Comments on Gaza, etc. June 13, 2007: "Yadlin said Israel would be "happy" if Hamas took over Gaza because the IDF could then deal with Gaza as a hostile state. He dismissed the Iranian role "as long as they don't have a port." https://web.archive.org/web/20140904145748/https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/07TELAVIV1733_a.html

“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” – Benjamin Netanyahu https://archive.ph/ABPWd#selection-1144.0-1144.1

"How can we possibly deal with the terrorist group we propped up and supported for decades without slaughtering the civilians?"

[OSR stands with Israel]

It's certainly a disgrace. We (the western world and its liberal values) will pay a high price for it

https://twitter.com/mattduss/status/1713210261996462512?t=bM7yVJGecfofH5zcd3hd5w...

No one with a brain buys the ~west cares about the liberal order~ propaganda discourse outside the West.

The West has propelled dictatorships and genocide when it saw that as aligned to their material self-interests. They use liberalism and democracy as an instrument only, not as a goal, especially in foreign countries.

If a democracy starts going against their interests on any matter, they will promote regime change undercover and more discreetly. If an autocracy starts doing that, then they will be more open about it and justify it as fighting terrorism or dictatorship in name of liberal values.

However, if a democracy or an autocracy aligns with their interests, they will treat as “liberal allies” no matter the horrors they may commit when they happen to be a dictatorship.

I don't buy most of your arguments, but no doubt that most of the folks attacking you without caring to address the fundamental question stressed above are, in fact, validating you

Most of us don’t have patience for a poster who (by his own standards) supports genocide of Ukrainians saying how westerners are bunch of hypocrites especially when most westerners here made upset about how Palestinians are treated

Gurl, even you don’t believe in that. Read the thread again to see some of the savage stuff said about Palestinians that gets ignored or accepted while an average comment of mine about Westerners hypocrisy gets outrage lol

OSR last comment about Palestinians is a great example.

You and most people here are with the side you identify your own figures more with. And that’s fine. But y’all need to let go of the “moral argument” false protection you use to feel better about that stuff.

This is why I tend to prefer western conservatives like OSR who outright say it because it allows you to know the rules of the game. Liberals believe in the EXACT same stuff and act the same exact way, but they feel more guilty about it so they need to build all this moral narrative story to feel validated.

A Two state solution would have existed by now if not for :

- Other Middle Eastern Nations invading Israel in 1948 in an attempt to finish what the Nazis begin

- Israel being attacked multiple times after that and invaded multiple times

- Palestinian Leadership not sabotaging peace talks with the Intifada in 2000.


Palestinians and the other Middle Eastern nations are responsible for the current situation not Israel. Israel has just done what they have to do because of all of this

[Agafin]

It's certainly a disgrace. We (the western world and its liberal values) will pay a high price for it

https://twitter.com/mattduss/status/1713210261996462512?t=bM7yVJGecfofH5zcd3hd5w...

This is dumb. Those regimes will say that no matter what.

[PSOL]

It is looking more likely that Israel—with great economic unproductive cost for indeterminate security gains—occupies and settles northern Gaza and its borderlands to surround the southern metropolitan areas similarly to the West Bank in a worst case scenario of massacres and lack of international will to ensure human rights.

This will be the pivotal moment in determining future dynamics since the elimination of Syrian rebels outside of Idlib or the battle of Bakhmut.

[NOVA Green]

This thread is useless. And it's the same people

Well tbf there are some of us that are attempting to keep it on track by primarily focusing on contemporary events rather than rehashing and relitigating all of the various events over the past (100) years.

Sure it is important to have some historical context when discussing the current "Israeli-Gaza War", as this thread was originally named, but yes way too often many posters here:

1.) Have an emotional investment which prevents critical thinking and discourse;

2.) Have their own pet "axes to grind", frequently regurgitations of their musings on various other International General Discussion (IGD) threads;

3.) Can't agree to disagree and shelve the broader Israeli-Palestinian discussion here and instead discuss contemporary events and recent history of this particular conflict,  and move items such as the context of the foundation of Israel and associated historical Palestinian grievances, over to the other thread(s) which were meant for such conversations.

Current reality is that we are talking about two actors, the Israeli State and Hamas, which effectively have been at war for a couple decades, albeit frequently a frozen conflict, with little military exchanges occurring from either side at various periods, and intense escalations at other times.

It is understandable that the initial reactions to what we witnessed following the Hamas assault on Israel, including atrocities against civilian populations, as well as the subsequent Israeli air strikes in Gaza, which have also caused needless civilian casualties (Albeit not intentional), can frequently trigger emotional responses, and cause generally well intentioned posters to s**tpost, but yeah generally agree about how certain posters tend to be a bit more prone to Threadjacking than others.

Their names will rename anonymous to protect the innocent.