Israel-Gaza war

[LAKISYLVANIA]

But onto my primary point. Sorry, if you think it's okay to suggest that 2 million people should pick up and leave their homes, be driven elsewhere, that is deranged. You are not a serious person, you're either very ignorant or you're a dangerous fiend who thankfully isn't in a position of real power (unfortunately there are people like you who are).

You are suggesting the IDF conquer Gaza, then go house to house and round up the Arabs (on what legal basis? how do you decide who goes?) and then force them into trucks, and if they resist? What if they don't go? Do you feel comfortable detaining them in overcrowded jails or camps, what about summarily shooting them (Ben-Gvir I think would approve)? What will it take? You then want to invade Egypt, and plop 2 million people into the Sinai.

That is deranged, thousands would die. It is not only ethnic cleansing, it is indeed borderline genocidal. It's true that Hamas has taken Gaza hostage for their antisemitic death mission, but if this is your solution, you are completely, utterly mad. You are deranged.

Egypt can manage the logistics.  Or the international community can do it.  The United States currently pays Egypt over a billion dollars a year to maintain the peace.  The Egyptian population has absolutely exploded over the last couple decades and increases by over 2 million every single year.  Which they have had to build new cities and infrastructure to support, relying heavily on international aid to do so.  Accommodating two million more people -- in particular, people who are culturally and ethnically homogenous within Egyptian society -- is not as difficult of a challenge as it sounds.  I'm sure Israel itself would be happy to pay $20 billion or whatever it would cost to help Egypt build a new home for the people of Gaza.

There's a suburb of Egypt named 10th of Ramadan City.  It's a four-hour drive from Gaza.  It's named after the start of the Yom Kippur War.  It has expanded every year with tens of thousands of new homes.

Egypt can just build a new city.  They can call it "October 6, 2023 City" in honor of the most recent genocidal attack on the Jews.  Get the Chinese to show you how to build those ghost cities that have hundreds of thousands of vacant housing units, with modern infrastructure, waiting for people to move in.  Are you really telling me it would be inhumane for the people of Gaza to move to such a place?  I'm not advocating for a giant refugee camp or anything like that.  Just move them to somewhere that has a near-identical culture and lifestyle to their current situation, except far more humane and modern.  And not governed by a terrorist group.

There are plenty of people in this thread who have happily advocated for years that the Jewish settlers be expelled from the settlements in the West Bank.  Presumably those people don't want to leave so what would your proposed logistics be?  How would that not be a "genocidal" "forced population transfer" by the same logic?

Egypt is never going to agree to that, period. I'm sorry you wasted all that time typing.

Egypt's GDP is 2% of the United States.  I'm sure they'd agree to it for the right price.  They agreed to demilitarize the Sinai, diplomatically recognize Israel and make peace for far less.

Look, even if Egypt demanded $100B -- $50,000 per person -- would that not be worth it?  Worth it for the United States to make a huge move towards peace?  Worth it for Israel to get rid of by far their biggest security problem?

Why are you advocating forced deportation and expulsion.

[Torrain]

Assuming this is borne out, and, given Iran’s President endorsed Hamas’ approach this morning… it feels like a ramp towards further escalation.
https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1711120355585089821

[Velasco]

I'd say a majority of the Israeli society has tried to ignore Gaza and the very existence of the Palestinians submitted to its governent and armed forces. The previous dysfunctional coalition government aimed to "shrink the conflict" (in the words if an influential liberal zionist). Interesting thoughts by Anshel Pfeffer (Haaretz, The Economist):

 "Netanyahu tried to ignore Gaza over his many years in office (...) Now he will be renembered forever for this disaster"

https://twitter.com/AnshelPfeffer/status/1710861402582221223?t=f6xbuMXEBYWpRVvKS...

Reportedly Smotrich has said "it's time to be cruel" at a heated cabinet meeting, even if that implies the killing of Israeli hostages in Gaza

With Israel’s hard-right government, a negotiated settlement appears unthinkable. Yesterday, Netanyahu called on Palestinians in Gaza to “leave” – it is unclear where to – and threatened an indiscriminate wave of bombing against Hamas. Since then, hundreds of Palestinians have been killed. In a cabinet meeting, finance minister Bezalel Smotrich called for “cruel” retaliation, which suggests the dozens of Israeli hostages in Gaza could well die as a result of the bombings. For the extreme right in Israe

l, this is also an opportunity to escalate tensions between Israel and the West Bank, the other Palestinian territory between the west bank of the River Jordan and the eastern frontier of Israel, as members of the Knesset openly speak about large-scale expulsion of Palestinians as a desired outcome.  

Some commentators believe the attack to be an Iranian-coordinated attempt to foil the Saudi “normalisation” with Israel. Such explanations are unconvincing. The willingness of Gulf states to normalise relations with Israel may have galvanised Hamas’s willingness to act. But a major escalation in Palestine/Israel was already under way, with a dramatic rise in Palestinian casualties in the West Bank, the ethnic cleansing of several small communities, intensified settlers’ attacks, and blatant changes to the status quo at the al-Aqsa mosque/Temple Mount in Jerusalem. Many, therefore, believed a popular uprising – another intifada – was only a matter of time.

It may have been that Hamas decided that an escalation was coming and it wanted to keep the initiative in its own hands, rather than respond to a popular uprising. This attack is the largest military blow Palestinians have ever dealt to Israel. As the Palestinian National Authority, which controls the West Bank, and its 87-year-old head, Mahmoud Abbas, fade into insignificance, Hamas aims to position itself as the real Palestinian leadership for the next stage – even if that means risking a confrontation whose outcome no one can predict.  

https://twitter.com/YairWallach/status/1711069912167227860?t=iFLZYo5RHQTSOtso4LC...

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Assuming this is borne out, and, given Iran’s President endorsed Hamas’ approach this morning… it feels like a ramp towards further escalation.
https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1711120355585089821

Are we sure this is correct?

https://twitter.com/mrandystevens/status/1711121948401651930

[GeneralMacArthur]

Egypt's GDP is 2% of the United States.  I'm sure they'd agree to it for the right price.  They agreed to demilitarize the Sinai, diplomatically recognize Israel and make peace for far less.

Look, even if Egypt demanded $100B -- $50,000 per person -- would that not be worth it?  Worth it for the United States to make a huge move towards peace?  Worth it for Israel to get rid of by far their biggest security problem?

Why are you advocating forced deportation and expulsion.

Because it's more humane than letting Hamas continue to rape and slaughter people and I don't see any practical middle ground.  Letting them continue to live in Gaza while Israel builds a giant wall of defenses hasn't worked.

[pppolitics]

Can you explain to me, please, how it is possible that a "military fort" has a population of 2 million and is, as noted above, about 75% women and children?

Why does it matter what the population is?  It's completely irrelevant to the analogy.  Also Gaza's population has sextupled over the last 50 years since Israel took it over from Egypt.  Used to be not that many people lived there.  Now it's become incredibly densely populated but it's not like it's the ancestral home to millions of people or anything.

And even if it was... what a home.  A completely failed state, a maze of worthless buildings and broken, unmaintained infrastructure, completely devoid of natural resources.  What a great loss it would be for people to move!

Please realize, I don't actually care if the Palestinian civilians leave, that is not the objective.  If it were possible for them to stay there and live in peace with the Israelis, I'd be happy with that.  I'd even be fine if no Jews were allowed to live in Gaza and it was a Muslim-only city like Mecca.  The problem is that it doesn't seem possible that this can happen, because the people there love Hamas and as long as they're there, they're going to harbor Hamas, and Gaza will continue to be essentially a terrorist military base within Israel.  It seems to me that the only way to stop the violence against Jews coming out of Hamas would be for most of the people currently there to be moved to Egypt.

If you have an alternative proposal, I'm happy to hear it.  But I think a mass population transfer out of Gaza would be far more humane than continuing the status quo of Hamas operating a salient within the state of Israel that they use as a military base for terrorist attacks, with the full support of the population.

You want to mass deport the Palestinians even though they were there before Israel was even a country.

That is what the Russians did with the Crimea Tartar.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Egypt's GDP is 2% of the United States.  I'm sure they'd agree to it for the right price.  They agreed to demilitarize the Sinai, diplomatically recognize Israel and make peace for far less.

Look, even if Egypt demanded $100B -- $50,000 per person -- would that not be worth it?  Worth it for the United States to make a huge move towards peace?  Worth it for Israel to get rid of by far their biggest security problem?

Why are you advocating forced deportation and expulsion.

Because it's more humane than letting Hamas continue to rape and slaughter people and I don't see any practical middle ground.  Letting them continue to live in Gaza while Israel builds a giant wall of defenses hasn't worked.

If this is what you consider "humane", i don't want to know what you consider inhumane.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Egypt's GDP is 2% of the United States.  I'm sure they'd agree to it for the right price.  They agreed to demilitarize the Sinai, diplomatically recognize Israel and make peace for far less.

Look, even if Egypt demanded $100B -- $50,000 per person -- would that not be worth it?  Worth it for the United States to make a huge move towards peace?  Worth it for Israel to get rid of by far their biggest security problem?

Why are you advocating forced deportation and expulsion.

Because it's more humane than letting Hamas continue to rape and slaughter people and I don't see any practical middle ground.  Letting them continue to live in Gaza while Israel builds a giant wall of defenses hasn't worked.

If this is what you consider "humane", i don't want to know what you consider inhumane.

There's isn't really a humane option here.  Unfortunately you have to pick the lesser of many available evils.  It's very easy to sit in the peanut gallery and just say "how dare you, how inhumane" to any proposed solution.  Very easy and cowardly.  It's much more difficult, of course, to actually try to figure out how to save lives.

[GeneralMacArthur]

You want to mass deport the Palestinians even though they were there before Israel was even a country.

That is what the Russians did with the Crimea Tartar.

The two situations are not remotely comparable and you know why.

[pppolitics]

Israel is far stronger than Hamas and has the power to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

That's not an endorsement. It's just a power analysis. They could do it if they choose to do it.

It would be very terrible for many innocent people. Hezbollah would certainly enter the war and other nations would consider doing so, which would make it harder but more likely for Israel to attempt it.

It's why those posters justifying what Hamas has done are not only evil - as is anyone who justifies mass rape and murder - but outright stupid.

I've seen some here compare Israel to Russia. I could rant about Netanyahu for paragraphs, but what I find interesting in that comparison is that Russia is loudly, actively challenging a world order that (often imperfectly) condemns solving disputes through violence.

Pro-Hamas posters have embraced this idea already. On a genocidal scale in the case of the poster who received a laughable 24-hour mute for expressing hopes that over nine million people would be killed or displaced.

But they seem to feel it can be one-sided. It can't. And if Israel decides they won't be held back by the horror of westerners or the prospect of fighting their neighbors, they have the power to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

If people posting here give the slightest sh*t about Palestinians -

anyone endorsing terrorists embezzling billions from them and using them as human shields does not

- then you don't want them predictably blown to sh*t by their more powerful and enraged enemy.

God, there are millions of people who actually exist in these places. It would be unimaginably horrible for these outcomes to occur. Celebrating something that makes it more likely is evil.

Ethnically cleansing probably is a bridge too far for Israel's supporters in the United States.

Israel would lose billions in subsidies that it has been getting annually from the United States.

Of course, that doesn't mean that Israel wouldn't try it.

[pppolitics]

But onto my primary point. Sorry, if you think it's okay to suggest that 2 million people should pick up and leave their homes, be driven elsewhere, that is deranged. You are not a serious person, you're either very ignorant or you're a dangerous fiend who thankfully isn't in a position of real power (unfortunately there are people like you who are).

You are suggesting the IDF conquer Gaza, then go house to house and round up the Arabs (on what legal basis? how do you decide who goes?) and then force them into trucks, and if they resist? What if they don't go? Do you feel comfortable detaining them in overcrowded jails or camps, what about summarily shooting them (Ben-Gvir I think would approve)? What will it take? You then want to invade Egypt, and plop 2 million people into the Sinai.

That is deranged, thousands would die. It is not only ethnic cleansing, it is indeed borderline genocidal. It's true that Hamas has taken Gaza hostage for their antisemitic death mission, but if this is your solution, you are completely, utterly mad. You are deranged.

Egypt can manage the logistics.  Or the international community can do it.  The United States currently pays Egypt over a billion dollars a year to maintain the peace.  The Egyptian population has absolutely exploded over the last couple decades and increases by over 2 million every single year.  Which they have had to build new cities and infrastructure to support, relying heavily on international aid to do so.  Accommodating two million more people -- in particular, people who are culturally and ethnically homogenous within Egyptian society -- is not as difficult of a challenge as it sounds.  I'm sure Israel itself would be happy to pay $20 billion or whatever it would cost to help Egypt build a new home for the people of Gaza.

There's a suburb of Egypt named 10th of Ramadan City.  It's a four-hour drive from Gaza.  It's named after the start of the Yom Kippur War.  It has expanded every year with tens of thousands of new homes.

Egypt can just build a new city.  They can call it "October 6, 2023 City" in honor of the most recent genocidal attack on the Jews.  Get the Chinese to show you how to build those ghost cities that have hundreds of thousands of vacant housing units, with modern infrastructure, waiting for people to move in.  Are you really telling me it would be inhumane for the people of Gaza to move to such a place?  I'm not advocating for a giant refugee camp or anything like that.  Just move them to somewhere that has a near-identical culture and lifestyle to their current situation, except far more humane and modern.  And not governed by a terrorist group.

There are plenty of people in this thread who have happily advocated for years that the Jewish settlers be expelled from the settlements in the West Bank.  Presumably those people don't want to leave so what would your proposed logistics be?  How would that not be a "genocidal" "forced population transfer" by the same logic?

Israel gets more aid from the United States than Egypt.

[pppolitics]

This thread is full of the most deranged and dangerous delusion, the most absurd ignorance, and the most vile bloodlust. It's sickening. I didn't want to say anything but now I feel like I have to. Firstly, anyone who blames Jews for their own deaths, simply shut up. That is the absolute nicest way I can put it. I would much rather say how I really feel but restraint is important.

But onto my primary point. Sorry, if you think it's okay to suggest that 2 million people should pick up and leave their homes, be driven elsewhere, that is deranged. You are not a serious person, you're either very ignorant or you're a dangerous fiend who thankfully isn't in a position of real power (unfortunately there are people like you who are).

You are suggesting the IDF conquer Gaza, then go house to house and round up the Arabs (on what legal basis? how do you decide who goes?) and then force them into trucks, and if they resist? What if they don't go? Do you feel comfortable detaining them in overcrowded jails or camps, what about summarily shooting them (Ben-Gvir I think would approve)? What will it take? You then want to invade Egypt, and plop 2 million people into the Sinai.

That is deranged, thousands would die. It is not only ethnic cleansing, it is indeed borderline genocidal. It's true that Hamas has taken Gaza hostage for their antisemitic death mission, but if this is your solution, you are completely, utterly mad. You are deranged.

This has happened before! At some level of outrage, it will happen here.

Is this supposed to make it not terrible?

If the people of Palestine want to live in peace, they need to stop supporting war. If they're going to back a band of savages, they can do in Egypt.

If the people of Israel want to live in peace, they need to leave illegally occupied territories.

[pppolitics]

But onto my primary point. Sorry, if you think it's okay to suggest that 2 million people should pick up and leave their homes, be driven elsewhere, that is deranged. You are not a serious person, you're either very ignorant or you're a dangerous fiend who thankfully isn't in a position of real power (unfortunately there are people like you who are).

You are suggesting the IDF conquer Gaza, then go house to house and round up the Arabs (on what legal basis? how do you decide who goes?) and then force them into trucks, and if they resist? What if they don't go? Do you feel comfortable detaining them in overcrowded jails or camps, what about summarily shooting them (Ben-Gvir I think would approve)? What will it take? You then want to invade Egypt, and plop 2 million people into the Sinai.

That is deranged, thousands would die. It is not only ethnic cleansing, it is indeed borderline genocidal. It's true that Hamas has taken Gaza hostage for their antisemitic death mission, but if this is your solution, you are completely, utterly mad. You are deranged.

Egypt can manage the logistics.  Or the international community can do it.  The United States currently pays Egypt over a billion dollars a year to maintain the peace.  The Egyptian population has absolutely exploded over the last couple decades and increases by over 2 million every single year.  Which they have had to build new cities and infrastructure to support, relying heavily on international aid to do so.  Accommodating two million more people -- in particular, people who are culturally and ethnically homogenous within Egyptian society -- is not as difficult of a challenge as it sounds.  I'm sure Israel itself would be happy to pay $20 billion or whatever it would cost to help Egypt build a new home for the people of Gaza.

There's a suburb of Egypt named 10th of Ramadan City.  It's a four-hour drive from Gaza.  It's named after the start of the Yom Kippur War.  It has expanded every year with tens of thousands of new homes.

Egypt can just build a new city.  They can call it "October 6, 2023 City" in honor of the most recent genocidal attack on the Jews.  Get the Chinese to show you how to build those ghost cities that have hundreds of thousands of vacant housing units, with modern infrastructure, waiting for people to move in.  Are you really telling me it would be inhumane for the people of Gaza to move to such a place?  I'm not advocating for a giant refugee camp or anything like that.  Just move them to somewhere that has a near-identical culture and lifestyle to their current situation, except far more humane and modern.  And not governed by a terrorist group.

There are plenty of people in this thread who have happily advocated for years that the Jewish settlers be expelled from the settlements in the West Bank.  Presumably those people don't want to leave so what would your proposed logistics be?  How would that not be a "genocidal" "forced population transfer" by the same logic?

Egypt is never going to agree to that, period. I'm sorry you wasted all that time typing.

Egypt's GDP is 2% of the United States.  I'm sure they'd agree to it for the right price.  They agreed to demilitarize the Sinai, diplomatically recognize Israel and make peace for far less.

Look, even if Egypt demanded $100B -- $50,000 per person -- would that not be worth it?  Worth it for the United States to make a huge move towards peace?  Worth it for Israel to get rid of by far their biggest security problem?

And why would the United States pay? What's in it for the United States?

[Death of a Salesman]

This thread is full of the most deranged and dangerous delusion, the most absurd ignorance, and the most vile bloodlust. It's sickening. I didn't want to say anything but now I feel like I have to. Firstly, anyone who blames Jews for their own deaths, simply shut up. That is the absolute nicest way I can put it. I would much rather say how I really feel but restraint is important.

But onto my primary point. Sorry, if you think it's okay to suggest that 2 million people should pick up and leave their homes, be driven elsewhere, that is deranged. You are not a serious person, you're either very ignorant or you're a dangerous fiend who thankfully isn't in a position of real power (unfortunately there are people like you who are).

You are suggesting the IDF conquer Gaza, then go house to house and round up the Arabs (on what legal basis? how do you decide who goes?) and then force them into trucks, and if they resist? What if they don't go? Do you feel comfortable detaining them in overcrowded jails or camps, what about summarily shooting them (Ben-Gvir I think would approve)? What will it take? You then want to invade Egypt, and plop 2 million people into the Sinai.

That is deranged, thousands would die. It is not only ethnic cleansing, it is indeed borderline genocidal. It's true that Hamas has taken Gaza hostage for their antisemitic death mission, but if this is your solution, you are completely, utterly mad. You are deranged.

This has happened before! At some level of outrage, it will happen here.

Is this supposed to make it not terrible?

If the people of Palestine want to live in peace, they need to stop supporting war. If they're going to back a band of savages, they can do in Egypt.

If the people of Israel want to live in peace, they need to leave illegally occupied territories.

They've made much better use of the land. Why would they leave?

[GeneralMacArthur]

If the people of Israel want to live in peace, they need to leave illegally occupied territories.

Israel left Gaza in 2005.  That's how Hamas came to be allowed to fester.

The West Bank is pretty much irrelevant in this discussion.  Anyone who thinks this Hamas attack was caused by Israeli settlements in the West Bank is an idiot.

Egypt's GDP is 2% of the United States.  I'm sure they'd agree to it for the right price.  They agreed to demilitarize the Sinai, diplomatically recognize Israel and make peace for far less.

Look, even if Egypt demanded $100B -- $50,000 per person -- would that not be worth it?  Worth it for the United States to make a huge move towards peace?  Worth it for Israel to get rid of by far their biggest security problem?

And why would the United States pay? What's in it for the United States?

The United States has been trying to resolve the Israel/Palestine conflict for fifty years and we've expended tons of resources on it.  Israel is one of our biggest allies, protecting them from Palestine is obviously in our interests, and also frees up their military/intelligence apparatus to focus more on the Iranian threat.

It used to be that ending this conflict was also in our interests because Palestinian terrorists launched attacks against the west and within the United States.  In fact on 9/11 a lot of people initially thought it was Palestinian terrorists who had done the attacks, because they had hijacked multiple flights in the previous decades.  This hasn't been a problem so much recently due to how seriously the USA has taken the terror threat and how successful Israel has been at weakening Palestine.  Which of course is part of why so many young people have a much more sympathetic view of Palestine these days.

[pppolitics]

You want to mass deport the Palestinians even though they were there before Israel was even a country.

That is what the Russians did with the Crimea Tartar.

The two situations are not remotely comparable and you know why.

...you meant because the Crimea Tartar wasn't strong enough to fight back

[Not Me, Us]

What’s interesting about the genocide option being proposed is that anyone actually thinks this would LOWER tensions. All it would do is ensure whoever survives the great trek into the Sinai will be even more radicalized than they already are and any chance of normalized relations between Egypt and Israel will be destroyed. And what’s stopping Hamas from firing rockets out of the Sinai? What happens then, does Israel get a free genocide pass there too? What about after that? These people are not going to give up after seeing butchers search their city house by house, deporting them from the only life they’ve ever known. This would only make the problem worse, and anyone who can’t see that is either willfully ignorant or brain damaged.

[pppolitics]

Egypt's GDP is 2% of the United States.  I'm sure they'd agree to it for the right price.  They agreed to demilitarize the Sinai, diplomatically recognize Israel and make peace for far less.

Look, even if Egypt demanded $100B -- $50,000 per person -- would that not be worth it?  Worth it for the United States to make a huge move towards peace?  Worth it for Israel to get rid of by far their biggest security problem?

Why are you advocating forced deportation and expulsion.

Because it's more humane than letting Hamas continue to rape and slaughter people and I don't see any practical middle ground.  Letting them continue to live in Gaza while Israel builds a giant wall of defenses hasn't worked.

If this is what you consider "humane", i don't want to know what you consider inhumane.

There's isn't really a humane option here.  Unfortunately you have to pick the lesser of many available evils.  It's very easy to sit in the peanut gallery and just say "how dare you, how inhumane" to any proposed solution.  Very easy and cowardly.  It's much more difficult, of course, to actually try to figure out how to save lives.

...and why should it be the Palestinians, not the Israelis, who are forcefully deported?

The Palestinians were there before Israel was even a country.

[pppolitics]

This thread is full of the most deranged and dangerous delusion, the most absurd ignorance, and the most vile bloodlust. It's sickening. I didn't want to say anything but now I feel like I have to. Firstly, anyone who blames Jews for their own deaths, simply shut up. That is the absolute nicest way I can put it. I would much rather say how I really feel but restraint is important.

But onto my primary point. Sorry, if you think it's okay to suggest that 2 million people should pick up and leave their homes, be driven elsewhere, that is deranged. You are not a serious person, you're either very ignorant or you're a dangerous fiend who thankfully isn't in a position of real power (unfortunately there are people like you who are).

You are suggesting the IDF conquer Gaza, then go house to house and round up the Arabs (on what legal basis? how do you decide who goes?) and then force them into trucks, and if they resist? What if they don't go? Do you feel comfortable detaining them in overcrowded jails or camps, what about summarily shooting them (Ben-Gvir I think would approve)? What will it take? You then want to invade Egypt, and plop 2 million people into the Sinai.

That is deranged, thousands would die. It is not only ethnic cleansing, it is indeed borderline genocidal. It's true that Hamas has taken Gaza hostage for their antisemitic death mission, but if this is your solution, you are completely, utterly mad. You are deranged.

This has happened before! At some level of outrage, it will happen here.

Is this supposed to make it not terrible?

If the people of Palestine want to live in peace, they need to stop supporting war. If they're going to back a band of savages, they can do in Egypt.

If the people of Israel want to live in peace, they need to leave illegally occupied territories.

They've made much better use of the land. Why would they leave?

What if I turn the land around your house into an orange farm?

It's now time for you to leave because I made better use of the land.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

...and why should it be the Palestinians, not the Israelis, who are forcefully deported?

The Palestinians were there before Israel was even a concept.

I oppose the mass expulsion of Arabs from Gaza (shocking that this even needs to be said), but this is a very bad argument. One could just as well say that the Israelis were there before Palestine was even a concept.

The correct answer is that forceful deportations are not a valid way of solving the problem, not that the Jews are the ones who "deserve" to be deported.

[Not Me, Us]

...and why should it be the Palestinians, not the Israelis, who are forcefully deported?

The Palestinians were there before Israel was even a concept.

I oppose the mass expulsion of Arabs from Gaza (shocking that this even needs to be said), but this is a very bad argument. One could just as well say that the Israelis were there before Palestine was even a concept.

The correct answer is that forceful deportations are not a valid way of solving the problem, not that the Jews are the ones who "deserve" to be deported.

Shocking that this even needs to be said. The vast majority of Israelis were born there and have lived there their entire lives. Genocide is never an option, and it’s horrific that this idea is being thrown around so wantonly.

[Bacon King]

What this thread shows is that random online commentators are not serious people to discuss sensitive conflicts with.

Actually I quite like a few of them

that's the worst part of this dumpster fire of a thread, really. All the stupid and insane posts ITT are rehashing the same dumb arguments over and over at such an absurdly high volume it totally drowns out the genuinely good posts some people have been making. I catch up on this thread and wade through five pages of trash and along the way discover genuine nuggets of insightful wisdom that could -- should -- have been the start of a fascinating discussion I'd delight in reading. But instead they were ignored, hidden by the swarm of posts from people who lack sanity or empathy or both.

Some of you folks are among the intelligent people I've ever known, and I'll always value what you bring to the table. Some of these people have even contributed to this thread!

It kinda makes me sad in a way, like a brief unexpected glimpse into a parallel world, one where this forum is truly the kind of cool place i very much wish it could be

[Middle-aged Europe]

What this thread shows is that random online commentators are not serious people to discuss sensitive conflicts with.

Actually I quite like a few of them

that's the worst part of this dumpster fire of a thread, really. All the stupid and insane posts ITT are rehashing the same dumb arguments over and over at such an absurdly high volume it totally drowns out the genuinely good posts some people have been making. I catch up on this thread and wade through five pages of trash and along the way discover genuine nuggets of insightful wisdom that could -- should -- have been the start of a fascinating discussion I'd delight in reading. But instead they were ignored, hidden by the swarm of posts from people who lack sanity or empathy or both.

Some of you folks are among the intelligent people I've ever known, and I'll always value what you bring to the table. Some of these people have even contributed to this thread!

It kinda makes me sad in a way, like a brief unexpected glimpse into a parallel world, one where this forum is truly the kind of cool place i very much wish it could be

This thread is a mess that proves once again that Israel/Palestine is a hot-button issues that always manages to bring out the worst in people, for some reason.

[Bacon King]

He's making what we call ethnic cleansing. You're responding with your own call for ethnic cleansing,  just against the group you find to be worse. There doesn't seem much point in engaging with someone like you, but your question has an easy answer

"it's wrong and immoral to suggest one group inherently deserves to live more than another group does. That said, it's obvious which group deserves it more and I'm gonna tell you exactly why"

[pppolitics]

...and why should it be the Palestinians, not the Israelis, who are forcefully deported?

The Palestinians were there before Israel was even a concept.

...and why should it be the Palestinians, not the Israelis, who are forcefully deported?

The Palestinians were there before Israel was even a concept.

I oppose the mass expulsion of Arabs from Gaza (shocking that this even needs to be said), but this is a very bad argument. One could just as well say that the Israelis were there before Palestine was even a concept.

The correct answer is that forceful deportations are not a valid way of solving the problem, not that the Jews are the ones who "deserve" to be deported.

Shocking that this even needs to be said. The vast majority of Israelis were born there and have lived there their entire lives. Genocide is never an option, and it’s horrific that this idea is being thrown around so wantonly.

I oppose the mass expulsion of Arabs from Gaza (shocking that this even needs to be said), but this is a very bad argument. One could just as well say that the Israelis were there before Palestine was even a concept.

The correct answer is that forceful deportations are not a valid way of solving the problem, not that the Jews are the ones who "deserve" to be deported.

I was just pointing out how flawed his argument is and that I could just easily flipped it around.