Israel-Gaza war

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

This is the wrong attitude. You need to actively work on peace. Or there won't be peace. It's basically negligent to not work on a long-lasting peace. Because if we get to a ceasefire or some kind of temporary peace, sooner or later conflict is bound to happen again. And again, and again and again. And even if Hamas is taken out, someone is going to take over out of the ruins of what is going to be the graveyard.

It's the same thing as with climate change. Postponing isn't good for anything, stop freezing conflicts because it makes peace impossible if nobody keeps working actively on peace which seems to be a trend... in later decades. How many long-lasting peaces have we seen since the cold war or especially fall of USSR? (regarding break-off states and so on)

Peace can happen the same way it did in South Africa: Hamas (or some broad 'Palestinian liberationism' party) can join a Likud-led (or broadly 'Israeli right' party) government, much like the National Party became a junior partner to the ANC. It can submit to a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, aid the Israeli right in its agenda, and reject its former beliefs not just in its rhetoric but deep in its soul.

When no one supports genocide, and when those who once did have cast off the parts of them that did so and rejected them, and Palestinian liberationism is left in the same dustbin as apartheid, then there will be peace.

My guess is that this is not very realistic; unlike the National Party, Hamas is not culturally close to movements which would encourage them to take these steps. In that case, warfare will continue until someone wins. In this particular conflict, the disparity of power, and the trend in the growth of the disparity of power, (and the trend in the growth of the disparity of allies), leave no doubt as to the outcome.

Amazing post. Absolutely love when you're on an entirely alien wavelength. The sun is an avocado.

[Death of a Salesman]

"The suitcase or the coffin" happened in Algeria, to the Mizrahim, and just this year in Nagorno-Karabakh. Israel has the ability to force it in Gaza. If Palestinians will like to avoid it, they need to stop supporting Hamas.

[Estrella]

The Gaza Strip has no future as a political entity.

Its people, regrettably, will need to be evacuated to Egypt and the city of Gaza likely destroyed. If not, the scenes unfolded over the past week will continue for another thousand years.

Israel is not absent of blame of course, indeed they deserve a lot of it, but what has transpired since the partition cannot be changed. We can only look ahead now.

This is genocidal rhetoric. I understand that tempers are running high now, and I truly do understand why, but can we please draw a line somewhere? The median age in Gaza is 18. If you endorse this you are endorsing the forcible expulsion or more likely death of mostly children.

This is not genocidal rhetoric.

The problem with Gaza is that it's too close to Israel.  It's a thorn penetrating up into Israel's territory.  Israel's racist, genocidal, Nazi enemies use it as a salient from which they have repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly launched attacks on Israeli civilians to try and conquer the country and wipe its citizens off the earth.

This is simply a strategic liability for Israel.  Gaza at this point isn't a proper city.  It's a military fort administered by terrorists.  It's the equivalent of saying Cuba should expel the Americans from Guantanamo.  Imagine if North Korea had a military base in the San Juan Islands that they used to constantly launch rockets and attacks on Seattle.  Would it be genocidal to say that the North Koreans should be expelled and the base destroyed?

Gaza is a completely failed city.  It's a sprawling morass of cheap concrete and rebar.  It's not like it's Jerusalem or some city that it's critically culturally important for an ethnic group to have access to.  It is not cultural genocide by any stretch to push the Arabs out of Gaza.

Frankly it would be better in the long run since under Israeli administration it could actually be built into a modern, humane, decent city, with the Islamic cultural heritage (a handful of mosques and gravesites) not only kept intact but preserved and made safe and available for pilgrimage and tourism.  Right now those mosques are used as safe hiding spots for Hamas terrorists, they know Israel won't bomb them because the international condemnation for destroying a cultural site would be too great.

Can you explain to me, please, how it is possible that a "military fort" has a population of 2 million and is, as noted above, about 75% women and children?

Gaza is not a military fort that had two million civillians corralled into it by Israel. It’s a civillian city that Hamas turned into a military fort and the largest human shield in the world after they took over in a bloody coup, purged the opposition and instituted a dictatorship. That doesn’t mean any civillian casualties deliberately caused by Israel will be justified; but the people of Gaza wouldn’t be in this situation in the first place if it wasn’t for Hamas.

[Senator Incitatus]

If 300 Israelis people are dead (the number is actually higher) that is 3 9/11s.

Are you under the impression the 9/11 flights were mostly empty and crashed into the sides of mountains?

[lfromnj]

If 300 Israelis people are dead (the number is actually higher) that is 3 9/11s.

Are you under the impression the 9/11 flights were mostly empty and crashed into the sides of mountains?

Hes probably doing it as per capita.

[KaiserDave]

This thread is full of the most deranged and dangerous delusion, the most absurd ignorance, and the most vile bloodlust. It's sickening. I didn't want to say anything but now I feel like I have to. Firstly, anyone who blames Jews for their own deaths, simply shut up (Edit: I see you reccing this post who do you think I am talking about). That is the absolute nicest way I can put it. I would much rather say how I really feel but restraint is important.

But onto my primary point. Sorry, if you think it's okay to suggest that 2 million people should pick up and leave their homes, be driven elsewhere, that is deranged. You are not a serious person, you're either very ignorant or you're a dangerous fiend who thankfully isn't in a position of real power (unfortunately there are people like you who are).

You are suggesting the IDF conquer Gaza, then go house to house and round up the Arabs (on what legal basis? how do you decide who goes?) and then force them into trucks, and if they resist? What if they don't go? Do you feel comfortable detaining them in overcrowded jails or camps, what about summarily shooting them (Ben-Gvir I think would approve)? What will it take? You then want to invade Egypt, and plop 2 million people into the Sinai.

That is deranged, thousands would die. It is not only ethnic cleansing, it is indeed borderline genocidal. It's true that Hamas has taken Gaza hostage for their antisemitic death mission, but if this is your solution, you are completely, utterly mad. You are deranged.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Can you explain to me, please, how it is possible that a "military fort" has a population of 2 million and is, as noted above, about 75% women and children?

Why does it matter what the population is?  It's completely irrelevant to the analogy.  Also Gaza's population has sextupled over the last 50 years since Israel took it over from Egypt.  Used to be not that many people lived there.  Now it's become incredibly densely populated but it's not like it's the ancestral home to millions of people or anything.

And even if it was... what a home.  A completely failed state, a maze of worthless buildings and broken, unmaintained infrastructure, completely devoid of natural resources.  What a great loss it would be for people to move!

Please realize, I don't actually care if the Palestinian civilians leave, that is not the objective.  If it were possible for them to stay there and live in peace with the Israelis, I'd be happy with that.  I'd even be fine if no Jews were allowed to live in Gaza and it was a Muslim-only city like Mecca.  The problem is that it doesn't seem possible that this can happen, because the people there love Hamas and as long as they're there, they're going to harbor Hamas, and Gaza will continue to be essentially a terrorist military base within Israel.  It seems to me that the only way to stop the violence against Jews coming out of Hamas would be for most of the people currently there to be moved to Egypt.

If you have an alternative proposal, I'm happy to hear it.  But I think a mass population transfer out of Gaza would be far more humane than continuing the status quo of Hamas operating a salient within the state of Israel that they use as a military base for terrorist attacks, with the full support of the population.

[Death of a Salesman]

The atrocities Hamas is committing are appalling, but it's even more horrifying that we're finding out about these incidents because Hamas is spreading videos of them.

[WalterWhite]

http://www.neareastconsulting.com/plc2006/blmain.html

A majority of people in the West Bank believe in Israel's right to exist. The Hamas terrorist organization is not representative of the views of the average person in the West Bank; acting like it is either legitimizes rhetoric calling for the destruction of Palestine/Israel, and it legitimizes Hamas' terrorism.

[KaiserDave]

Can you explain to me, please, how it is possible that a "military fort" has a population of 2 million and is, as noted above, about 75% women and children?

Why does it matter what the population is?  It's completely irrelevant to the analogy.  Also Gaza's population has sextupled over the last 50 years since Israel took it over from Egypt.  Used to be not that many people lived there.  Now it's become incredibly densely populated but it's not like it's the ancestral home to millions of people or anything.

And even if it was... what a home.  A completely failed state, a maze of worthless buildings and broken, unmaintained infrastructure, completely devoid of natural resources.  What a great loss it would be for people to move.

Please realize, I don't actually care if the Palestinian civilians leave.  If it were possible for them to stay there and live in peace with the Israelis, I'd be happy with that.  I'd even be fine if no Jews were allowed to live in Gaza and it was a Muslim-only city like Mecca.  The problem is that it doesn't seem possible that this can happen, because the people there love Hamas and as long as they're there, they're going to harbor Hamas, and Gaza will continue to be essentially a terrorist military base within Israel.  It seems to me that the only way to stop the violence against Jews coming out of Hamas would be for most of the people currently there to be moved to Egypt.

If you have an alternative proposal, I'm happy to hear it.  But I think a mass population transfer out of Gaza would be far more humane than continuing the status quo of Hamas operating a salient within the state of Israel that they use as a military base for terrorist attacks, with the full support of the population.

Of course it matters! A "military fort" makes it seem like it is a wholly military target where any kind of violent conduct is justified. The fact is, the undeniable fact is, that while Hamas has taken the area hostage and uses it as a terrorist camp, it is still a very dense civilian urban area, it is not a wholly military target!

[GALeftist]

The Gaza Strip has no future as a political entity.

Its people, regrettably, will need to be evacuated to Egypt and the city of Gaza likely destroyed. If not, the scenes unfolded over the past week will continue for another thousand years.

Israel is not absent of blame of course, indeed they deserve a lot of it, but what has transpired since the partition cannot be changed. We can only look ahead now.

This is genocidal rhetoric. I understand that tempers are running high now, and I truly do understand why, but can we please draw a line somewhere? The median age in Gaza is 18. If you endorse this you are endorsing the forcible expulsion or more likely death of mostly children.

This is not genocidal rhetoric.

The problem with Gaza is that it's too close to Israel.  It's a thorn penetrating up into Israel's territory.  Israel's racist, genocidal, Nazi enemies use it as a salient from which they have repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly launched attacks on Israeli civilians to try and conquer the country and wipe its citizens off the earth.

This is simply a strategic liability for Israel.  Gaza at this point isn't a proper city.  It's a military fort administered by terrorists.  It's the equivalent of saying Cuba should expel the Americans from Guantanamo.  Imagine if North Korea had a military base in the San Juan Islands that they used to constantly launch rockets and attacks on Seattle.  Would it be genocidal to say that the North Koreans should be expelled and the base destroyed?

Gaza is a completely failed city.  It's a sprawling morass of cheap concrete and rebar.  It's not like it's Jerusalem or some city that it's critically culturally important for an ethnic group to have access to.  It is not cultural genocide by any stretch to push the Arabs out of Gaza.

Frankly it would be better in the long run since under Israeli administration it could actually be built into a modern, humane, decent city, with the Islamic cultural heritage (a handful of mosques and gravesites) not only kept intact but preserved and made safe and available for pilgrimage and tourism.  Right now those mosques are used as safe hiding spots for Hamas terrorists, they know Israel won't bomb them because the international condemnation for destroying a cultural site would be too great.

Can you explain to me, please, how it is possible that a "military fort" has a population of 2 million and is, as noted above, about 75% women and children?

Gaza is not a military fort that had two million civillians corralled into it by Israel. It’s a civillian city that Hamas turned into a military fort and the largest human shield in the world after they took over in a bloody coup, purged the opposition and instituted a dictatorship. That doesn’t mean any civillian casualties deliberately caused by Israel will be justified; but the people of Gaza wouldn’t be in this situation in the first place if it wasn’t for Hamas.

I agree fully with this, and Hamas is indefensible, as I've said numerous times, but it would not justify expelling so many innocents from their homeland – and, given the realities on the ground, expulsion is frankly optimistic. Egypt is not about to let these 2 million Palestinians into Egypt, and I'd frankly be surprised if they let in 2 thousand. If Gaza is annexed to Israel, its current population will mostly die.

I've seen numerous people assert that "Palestinians in Gaza" support Hamas, so they share culpability for its actions. I have a couple questions regarding this. Firstly, even in 2006, Hamas won less than 45% of the vote – not even a majority. Secondly, as I noted, the Palestinian population is very young – the median Palestinian was three years old when the last Palestinian elections were held. How are we to know whether these Palestinians support Hamas or not? Thirdly, even if a majority of Palestinians support Hamas, one must admit that it is nothing resembling an overwhelming majority. Should the sizeable proportion, if not majority, of Palestinians who oppose Hamas just be condemned to death?

Ultimately Hamas's actions have revealed to all reasonable parties that something must be done. I fully accept that the IDF will have to root out Hamas in Gaza, and I also accept that this will result in civilian casualties. That's the nature of war. What I do not accept is this push for unspeakable crimes to be perpetrated in Gaza by intentionally eliminating its civilian population. I promise you that such crimes would only worsen this horrible conflict.

[Death of a Salesman]

This thread is full of the most deranged and dangerous delusion, the most absurd ignorance, and the most vile bloodlust. It's sickening. I didn't want to say anything but now I feel like I have to. Firstly, anyone who blames Jews for their own deaths, simply shut up. That is the absolute nicest way I can put it. I would much rather say how I really feel but restraint is important.

But onto my primary point. Sorry, if you think it's okay to suggest that 2 million people should pick up and leave their homes, be driven elsewhere, that is deranged. You are not a serious person, you're either very ignorant or you're a dangerous fiend who thankfully isn't in a position of real power (unfortunately there are people like you who are).

You are suggesting the IDF conquer Gaza, then go house to house and round up the Arabs (on what legal basis? how do you decide who goes?) and then force them into trucks, and if they resist? What if they don't go? Do you feel comfortable detaining them in overcrowded jails or camps, what about summarily shooting them (Ben-Gvir I think would approve)? What will it take? You then want to invade Egypt, and plop 2 million people into the Sinai.

That is deranged, thousands would die. It is not only ethnic cleansing, it is indeed borderline genocidal. It's true that Hamas has taken Gaza hostage for their antisemitic death mission, but if this is your solution, you are completely, utterly mad. You are deranged.

This has happened before! At some level of outrage, it will happen here.

[KaiserDave]

This thread is full of the most deranged and dangerous delusion, the most absurd ignorance, and the most vile bloodlust. It's sickening. I didn't want to say anything but now I feel like I have to. Firstly, anyone who blames Jews for their own deaths, simply shut up. That is the absolute nicest way I can put it. I would much rather say how I really feel but restraint is important.

But onto my primary point. Sorry, if you think it's okay to suggest that 2 million people should pick up and leave their homes, be driven elsewhere, that is deranged. You are not a serious person, you're either very ignorant or you're a dangerous fiend who thankfully isn't in a position of real power (unfortunately there are people like you who are).

You are suggesting the IDF conquer Gaza, then go house to house and round up the Arabs (on what legal basis? how do you decide who goes?) and then force them into trucks, and if they resist? What if they don't go? Do you feel comfortable detaining them in overcrowded jails or camps, what about summarily shooting them (Ben-Gvir I think would approve)? What will it take? You then want to invade Egypt, and plop 2 million people into the Sinai.

That is deranged, thousands would die. It is not only ethnic cleansing, it is indeed borderline genocidal. It's true that Hamas has taken Gaza hostage for their antisemitic death mission, but if this is your solution, you are completely, utterly mad. You are deranged.

This has happened before! At some level of outrage, it will happen here.

Is this supposed to make it not terrible?

[Pericles]

What this thread shows is that random online commentators are not serious people to discuss sensitive conflicts with.

[GeneralMacArthur]

But onto my primary point. Sorry, if you think it's okay to suggest that 2 million people should pick up and leave their homes, be driven elsewhere, that is deranged. You are not a serious person, you're either very ignorant or you're a dangerous fiend who thankfully isn't in a position of real power (unfortunately there are people like you who are).

You are suggesting the IDF conquer Gaza, then go house to house and round up the Arabs (on what legal basis? how do you decide who goes?) and then force them into trucks, and if they resist? What if they don't go? Do you feel comfortable detaining them in overcrowded jails or camps, what about summarily shooting them (Ben-Gvir I think would approve)? What will it take? You then want to invade Egypt, and plop 2 million people into the Sinai.

That is deranged, thousands would die. It is not only ethnic cleansing, it is indeed borderline genocidal. It's true that Hamas has taken Gaza hostage for their antisemitic death mission, but if this is your solution, you are completely, utterly mad. You are deranged.

Egypt can manage the logistics.  Or the international community can do it.  The United States currently pays Egypt over a billion dollars a year to maintain the peace.  The Egyptian population has absolutely exploded over the last couple decades and increases by over 2 million every single year.  Which they have had to build new cities and infrastructure to support, relying heavily on international aid to do so.  Accommodating two million more people -- in particular, people who are culturally and ethnically homogenous within Egyptian society -- is not as difficult of a challenge as it sounds.  I'm sure Israel itself would be happy to pay $20 billion or whatever it would cost to help Egypt build a new home for the people of Gaza.

There's a suburb of Egypt named 10th of Ramadan City.  It's a four-hour drive from Gaza.  It's named after the start of the Yom Kippur War.  It has expanded every year with tens of thousands of new homes.

Egypt can just build a new city.  They can call it "October 6, 2023 City" in honor of the most recent genocidal attack on the Jews.  Get the Chinese to show you how to build those ghost cities that have hundreds of thousands of vacant housing units, with modern infrastructure, waiting for people to move in.  Are you really telling me it would be inhumane for the people of Gaza to move to such a place?  I'm not advocating for a giant refugee camp or anything like that.  Just move them to somewhere that has a near-identical culture and lifestyle to their current situation, except far more humane and modern.  And not governed by a terrorist group.

There are plenty of people in this thread who have happily advocated for years that the Jewish settlers be expelled from the settlements in the West Bank.  Presumably those people don't want to leave so what would your proposed logistics be?  How would that not be a "genocidal" "forced population transfer" by the same logic?

[Death of a Salesman]

This thread is full of the most deranged and dangerous delusion, the most absurd ignorance, and the most vile bloodlust. It's sickening. I didn't want to say anything but now I feel like I have to. Firstly, anyone who blames Jews for their own deaths, simply shut up. That is the absolute nicest way I can put it. I would much rather say how I really feel but restraint is important.

But onto my primary point. Sorry, if you think it's okay to suggest that 2 million people should pick up and leave their homes, be driven elsewhere, that is deranged. You are not a serious person, you're either very ignorant or you're a dangerous fiend who thankfully isn't in a position of real power (unfortunately there are people like you who are).

You are suggesting the IDF conquer Gaza, then go house to house and round up the Arabs (on what legal basis? how do you decide who goes?) and then force them into trucks, and if they resist? What if they don't go? Do you feel comfortable detaining them in overcrowded jails or camps, what about summarily shooting them (Ben-Gvir I think would approve)? What will it take? You then want to invade Egypt, and plop 2 million people into the Sinai.

That is deranged, thousands would die. It is not only ethnic cleansing, it is indeed borderline genocidal. It's true that Hamas has taken Gaza hostage for their antisemitic death mission, but if this is your solution, you are completely, utterly mad. You are deranged.

This has happened before! At some level of outrage, it will happen here.

Is this supposed to make it not terrible?

If the people of Palestine want to live in peace, they need to stop supporting war. If they're going to back a band of savages, they can do in Egypt.

[KaiserDave]

But onto my primary point. Sorry, if you think it's okay to suggest that 2 million people should pick up and leave their homes, be driven elsewhere, that is deranged. You are not a serious person, you're either very ignorant or you're a dangerous fiend who thankfully isn't in a position of real power (unfortunately there are people like you who are).

You are suggesting the IDF conquer Gaza, then go house to house and round up the Arabs (on what legal basis? how do you decide who goes?) and then force them into trucks, and if they resist? What if they don't go? Do you feel comfortable detaining them in overcrowded jails or camps, what about summarily shooting them (Ben-Gvir I think would approve)? What will it take? You then want to invade Egypt, and plop 2 million people into the Sinai.

That is deranged, thousands would die. It is not only ethnic cleansing, it is indeed borderline genocidal. It's true that Hamas has taken Gaza hostage for their antisemitic death mission, but if this is your solution, you are completely, utterly mad. You are deranged.

Egypt can manage the logistics.  Or the international community can do it.  The United States currently pays Egypt over a billion dollars a year to maintain the peace.  The Egyptian population has absolutely exploded over the last couple decades and increases by over 2 million every single year.  Which they have had to build new cities and infrastructure to support, relying heavily on international aid to do so.  Accommodating two million more people -- in particular, people who are culturally and ethnically homogenous within Egyptian society -- is not as difficult of a challenge as it sounds.  I'm sure Israel itself would be happy to pay $20 billion or whatever it would cost to help Egypt build a new home for the people of Gaza.

There's a suburb of Egypt named 10th of Ramadan City.  It's a four-hour drive from Gaza.  It's named after the start of the Yom Kippur War.  It has expanded every year with tens of thousands of new homes.

Egypt can just build a new city.  They can call it "October 6, 2023 City" in honor of the most recent genocidal attack on the Jews.  Get the Chinese to show you how to build those ghost cities that have hundreds of thousands of vacant housing units, with modern infrastructure, waiting for people to move in.  Are you really telling me it would be inhumane for the people of Gaza to move to such a place?  I'm not advocating for a giant refugee camp or anything like that.  Just move them to somewhere that has a near-identical culture and lifestyle to their current situation, except far more humane and modern.  And not governed by a terrorist group.

There are plenty of people in this thread who have happily advocated for years that the Jewish settlers be expelled from the settlements in the West Bank.  Presumably those people don't want to leave so what would your proposed logistics be?  How would that not be a "genocidal" "forced population transfer" by the same logic?

Egypt is never going to agree to that, period. I'm sorry you wasted all that time typing.

[KaiserDave]

This thread is full of the most deranged and dangerous delusion, the most absurd ignorance, and the most vile bloodlust. It's sickening. I didn't want to say anything but now I feel like I have to. Firstly, anyone who blames Jews for their own deaths, simply shut up. That is the absolute nicest way I can put it. I would much rather say how I really feel but restraint is important.

But onto my primary point. Sorry, if you think it's okay to suggest that 2 million people should pick up and leave their homes, be driven elsewhere, that is deranged. You are not a serious person, you're either very ignorant or you're a dangerous fiend who thankfully isn't in a position of real power (unfortunately there are people like you who are).

You are suggesting the IDF conquer Gaza, then go house to house and round up the Arabs (on what legal basis? how do you decide who goes?) and then force them into trucks, and if they resist? What if they don't go? Do you feel comfortable detaining them in overcrowded jails or camps, what about summarily shooting them (Ben-Gvir I think would approve)? What will it take? You then want to invade Egypt, and plop 2 million people into the Sinai.

That is deranged, thousands would die. It is not only ethnic cleansing, it is indeed borderline genocidal. It's true that Hamas has taken Gaza hostage for their antisemitic death mission, but if this is your solution, you are completely, utterly mad. You are deranged.

This has happened before! At some level of outrage, it will happen here.

Is this supposed to make it not terrible?

If the people of Palestine want to live in peace, they need to stop supporting war. If they're going to back a band of savages, they can do in Egypt.

Add one more to the Atlas ethnic cleansing brigade.

[GeneralMacArthur]

But onto my primary point. Sorry, if you think it's okay to suggest that 2 million people should pick up and leave their homes, be driven elsewhere, that is deranged. You are not a serious person, you're either very ignorant or you're a dangerous fiend who thankfully isn't in a position of real power (unfortunately there are people like you who are).

You are suggesting the IDF conquer Gaza, then go house to house and round up the Arabs (on what legal basis? how do you decide who goes?) and then force them into trucks, and if they resist? What if they don't go? Do you feel comfortable detaining them in overcrowded jails or camps, what about summarily shooting them (Ben-Gvir I think would approve)? What will it take? You then want to invade Egypt, and plop 2 million people into the Sinai.

That is deranged, thousands would die. It is not only ethnic cleansing, it is indeed borderline genocidal. It's true that Hamas has taken Gaza hostage for their antisemitic death mission, but if this is your solution, you are completely, utterly mad. You are deranged.

Egypt can manage the logistics.  Or the international community can do it.  The United States currently pays Egypt over a billion dollars a year to maintain the peace.  The Egyptian population has absolutely exploded over the last couple decades and increases by over 2 million every single year.  Which they have had to build new cities and infrastructure to support, relying heavily on international aid to do so.  Accommodating two million more people -- in particular, people who are culturally and ethnically homogenous within Egyptian society -- is not as difficult of a challenge as it sounds.  I'm sure Israel itself would be happy to pay $20 billion or whatever it would cost to help Egypt build a new home for the people of Gaza.

There's a suburb of Egypt named 10th of Ramadan City.  It's a four-hour drive from Gaza.  It's named after the start of the Yom Kippur War.  It has expanded every year with tens of thousands of new homes.

Egypt can just build a new city.  They can call it "October 6, 2023 City" in honor of the most recent genocidal attack on the Jews.  Get the Chinese to show you how to build those ghost cities that have hundreds of thousands of vacant housing units, with modern infrastructure, waiting for people to move in.  Are you really telling me it would be inhumane for the people of Gaza to move to such a place?  I'm not advocating for a giant refugee camp or anything like that.  Just move them to somewhere that has a near-identical culture and lifestyle to their current situation, except far more humane and modern.  And not governed by a terrorist group.

There are plenty of people in this thread who have happily advocated for years that the Jewish settlers be expelled from the settlements in the West Bank.  Presumably those people don't want to leave so what would your proposed logistics be?  How would that not be a "genocidal" "forced population transfer" by the same logic?

Egypt is never going to agree to that, period. I'm sorry you wasted all that time typing.

Egypt's GDP is 2% of the United States.  I'm sure they'd agree to it for the right price.  They agreed to demilitarize the Sinai, diplomatically recognize Israel and make peace for far less.

Look, even if Egypt demanded $100B -- $50,000 per person -- would that not be worth it?  Worth it for the United States to make a huge move towards peace?  Worth it for Israel to get rid of by far their biggest security problem?

[Pericles]

People don't understand the concept of human rights. Civilian populations don't have to 'deserve' (whatever tf that means) not to be ethnically cleansed and genocided-it's the most basic right that everyone should expect and have.

[KaiserDave]

Yes, Egypt is undergoing a massive population boom, which importantly, they are already not capable of supporting. The economy is not growing commensurate with their population, living conditions are terrible, poverty and homelessness are on the rise, and their is mass bureaucratic confusion and chaos. Furthermore, Egypt is run by a secular military dictatorship which is terrified of political Islam. So why would they ever agree to admit 2 million (quite literally) penniless Gazans, many of whom are ideologically radical? Many of whom are probably literally in Hamas, and would become instant enemies of the Egyptian state.

At least Haley/Ryan, who is completely deranged, has honestly admitted that Egypt would have to be forced to admit the Gazans, which makes his proposal even more insane.

[lfromnj]

The Gaza Strip has no future as a political entity.

Its people, regrettably, will need to be evacuated to Egypt and the city of Gaza likely destroyed. If not, the scenes unfolded over the past week will continue for another thousand years.

Israel is not absent of blame of course, indeed they deserve a lot of it, but what has transpired since the partition cannot be changed. We can only look ahead now.

This is genocidal rhetoric. I understand that tempers are running high now, and I truly do understand why, but can we please draw a line somewhere? The median age in Gaza is 18. If you endorse this you are endorsing the forcible expulsion or more likely death of mostly children.

This is not genocidal rhetoric.

The problem with Gaza is that it's too close to Israel.  It's a thorn penetrating up into Israel's territory.  Israel's racist, genocidal, Nazi enemies use it as a salient from which they have repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly launched attacks on Israeli civilians to try and conquer the country and wipe its citizens off the earth.

This is simply a strategic liability for Israel.  Gaza at this point isn't a proper city.  It's a military fort administered by terrorists.  It's the equivalent of saying Cuba should expel the Americans from Guantanamo.  Imagine if North Korea had a military base in the San Juan Islands that they used to constantly launch rockets and attacks on Seattle.  Would it be genocidal to say that the North Koreans should be expelled and the base destroyed?

Gaza is a completely failed city.  It's a sprawling morass of cheap concrete and rebar.  It's not like it's Jerusalem or some city that it's critically culturally important for an ethnic group to have access to.  It is not cultural genocide by any stretch to push the Arabs out of Gaza.

Frankly it would be better in the long run since under Israeli administration it could actually be built into a modern, humane, decent city, with the Islamic cultural heritage (a handful of mosques and gravesites) not only kept intact but preserved and made safe and available for pilgrimage and tourism.  Right now those mosques are used as safe hiding spots for Hamas terrorists, they know Israel won't bomb them because the international condemnation for destroying a cultural site would be too great.

Can you explain to me, please, how it is possible that a "military fort" has a population of 2 million and is, as noted above, about 75% women and children?

Gaza is not a military fort that had two million civillians corralled into it by Israel. It’s a civillian city that Hamas turned into a military fort and the largest human shield in the world after they took over in a bloody coup, purged the opposition and instituted a dictatorship. That doesn’t mean any civillian casualties deliberately caused by Israel will be justified; but the people of Gaza wouldn’t be in this situation in the first place if it wasn’t for Hamas.

I agree fully with this, and Hamas is indefensible, as I've said numerous times, but it would not justify expelling so many innocents from their homeland – and, given the realities on the ground, expulsion is frankly optimistic. Egypt is not about to let these 2 million Palestinians into Egypt, and I'd frankly be surprised if they let in 2 thousand. If Gaza is annexed to Israel, its current population will mostly die.

I've seen numerous people assert that "Palestinians in Gaza" support Hamas, so they share culpability for its actions. I have a couple questions regarding this. Firstly, even in 2006, Hamas won less than 45% of the vote – not even a majority. Secondly, as I noted, the Palestinian population is very young – the median Palestinian was three years old when the last Palestinian elections were held. How are we to know whether these Palestinians support Hamas or not? Thirdly, even if a majority of Palestinians support Hamas, one must admit that it is nothing resembling an overwhelming majority. Should the sizeable proportion, if not majority, of Palestinians who oppose Hamas just be condemned to death?

Ultimately Hamas's actions have revealed to all reasonable parties that something must be done. I fully accept that the IDF will have to root out Hamas in Gaza, and I also accept that this will result in civilian casualties. That's the nature of war. What I do not accept is this push for unspeakable crimes to be perpetrated in Gaza by intentionally eliminating its civilian population. I promise you that such crimes would only worsen this horrible conflict.

Hamas got 45% of the vote after a serious gesture of goodwill by the Israeli government . After 15 years there stands little to reason that Hamas isn't more popular now .

[KaiserDave]

But onto my primary point. Sorry, if you think it's okay to suggest that 2 million people should pick up and leave their homes, be driven elsewhere, that is deranged. You are not a serious person, you're either very ignorant or you're a dangerous fiend who thankfully isn't in a position of real power (unfortunately there are people like you who are).

You are suggesting the IDF conquer Gaza, then go house to house and round up the Arabs (on what legal basis? how do you decide who goes?) and then force them into trucks, and if they resist? What if they don't go? Do you feel comfortable detaining them in overcrowded jails or camps, what about summarily shooting them (Ben-Gvir I think would approve)? What will it take? You then want to invade Egypt, and plop 2 million people into the Sinai.

That is deranged, thousands would die. It is not only ethnic cleansing, it is indeed borderline genocidal. It's true that Hamas has taken Gaza hostage for their antisemitic death mission, but if this is your solution, you are completely, utterly mad. You are deranged.

Egypt can manage the logistics.  Or the international community can do it.  The United States currently pays Egypt over a billion dollars a year to maintain the peace.  The Egyptian population has absolutely exploded over the last couple decades and increases by over 2 million every single year.  Which they have had to build new cities and infrastructure to support, relying heavily on international aid to do so.  Accommodating two million more people -- in particular, people who are culturally and ethnically homogenous within Egyptian society -- is not as difficult of a challenge as it sounds.  I'm sure Israel itself would be happy to pay $20 billion or whatever it would cost to help Egypt build a new home for the people of Gaza.

There's a suburb of Egypt named 10th of Ramadan City.  It's a four-hour drive from Gaza.  It's named after the start of the Yom Kippur War.  It has expanded every year with tens of thousands of new homes.

Egypt can just build a new city.  They can call it "October 6, 2023 City" in honor of the most recent genocidal attack on the Jews.  Get the Chinese to show you how to build those ghost cities that have hundreds of thousands of vacant housing units, with modern infrastructure, waiting for people to move in.  Are you really telling me it would be inhumane for the people of Gaza to move to such a place?  I'm not advocating for a giant refugee camp or anything like that.  Just move them to somewhere that has a near-identical culture and lifestyle to their current situation, except far more humane and modern.  And not governed by a terrorist group.

There are plenty of people in this thread who have happily advocated for years that the Jewish settlers be expelled from the settlements in the West Bank.  Presumably those people don't want to leave so what would your proposed logistics be?  How would that not be a "genocidal" "forced population transfer" by the same logic?

Egypt is never going to agree to that, period. I'm sorry you wasted all that time typing.

Egypt's GDP is 2% of the United States.  I'm sure they'd agree to it for the right price.  They agreed to demilitarize the Sinai, diplomatically recognize Israel and make peace for far less.

Look, even if Egypt demanded $100B -- $50,000 per person -- would that not be worth it?  Worth it for the United States to make a huge move towards peace?  Worth it for Israel to get rid of by far their biggest security problem?

Someone should have told this magical revelation to Israeli policymakers earlier this century!

[DavidB.]

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1711120223577788653?s=20
Catastrophically stupid move on their part if true. This will not help them at all. It will just give the public in a lot of Western countries - the ones the hostages are from - the sense that this is not just a war against the Jews, but one against the West.

[GALeftist]

Hamas got 45% of the vote after a serious gesture of goodwill by the Israeli government . After 15 years there stands little to reason that Hamas isn't more popular now .

I'm not so confident. In 2006 Hamas was often seen as a protest vote (even they didn't expect to win), whereas today they are governing in Gaza and have not exactly done a bang-up job.