Israel-Gaza war

[ChiefFireWaterMike]

There is only one option, the destruction of terrorism in its totality.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

I spent several hours today worried if my cousin in Ashkelon was okay and I still don't want to invade Egypt. Curious how that works.

[afleitch]

Hash has cleared this thread once already.

I have woken up to 19 reported messages which I will process.

Do not say things or take positions that violate the ToS. Be aware of the words you are using, preferably before you use them, and the fact you are talking about human conflict and human lives.

Otherwise this thread will be shorn of anything opinion related.

Good?

Lovely.

[jaichind]

One of many possible reasons for Israel's intelligence failure is that Hamas most likely uses Huawei to communicate means that Five Eyes is not likely to be able to listen in on their communications.

https://twitter.com/AimenDean/status/1710709661509247118

[Agafin]

I've just seen the tweet from Corbyn and holy crap, it seems like people were actually right about him. It was not a witch hunt or anything of the sort, Corbyn truly is an anti-semitic, anti-western, pro-communist sympathizer. How did he ever manage to become the leader of labour?

[jaichind]

Iran English language newspapers on conflict

[Meclazine for Israel]

Fresh booms on the Gaza City video live stream.

Something just went bang.

[jaichind]

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-egypt-attack-tourism-af8a02136c390721a0fdef647394154c

"Policeman in Egypt kills 2 Israelis and 1 Egyptian at tourist site"

My understanding is that the number of Israelis killed is now at more than 2

[Bacon King]

They elected Hamas to power in the first place.  After Israel withdrew. 

in 2006, a plurality of voters in the Gaza Strip voted for Hamas candidates to represent them in the legislature of the Palestinian National Authority.

The cumulative vote totals of Districts 12 thru 16, the five Gaza-based districts, was as follows:

Hamas: 48.27%
Fatah: 43.60%
others: 8.13%

so even in this election 17 years ago, most Gazans didn't vote for Hamas.

nor did most Hamas voters support the party's hardline stances, as this post-election survey demonstrates. 75% say Hamas should acknowledge Israel's right to exist and abandon their commitment to Israel's elimination. Also, 84% support peace with Israel. Because these numbers are so large, we can mathematically infer that even a majority of Hamas's own voters opposed their belligerence and warmongering!

Regardless of all the above, however, this vote was NOT about "who controls the Gaza Strip", it's about "who will represent you in the PNA Legislative Council". In no way should these results be used to legitimize the Hamas coup AGAINST the PNA, nor its armed takeover of the Gaza Strip and its imposition of a de facto independent government not affiliated with the rest of Palestine

The Hamas dictatorship has no democratic legitimacy whatsoever. The results of a PNA legislative election did not somehow proactively ratify the Hamas coup AGAINST the PNA - it's a claim literally straight out of the propaganda Hamas uses to maintain their dictatorship.

Hamas is a terrorist group and the many innocent civilians forced to live under its thumb are not in any way responsible for the horrifying massacres and other atrocities Hamas is doing.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

I've just seen the tweet from Corbyn and holy crap, it seems like people were actually right about him. It was not a witch hunt or anything of the sort, Corbyn truly is an anti-semitic, anti-western, pro-communist sympathizer. How did he ever manage to become the leader of labour?

https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1710632920950489167

What is anti-semitic about this?

I stand with Corbyn.

[windjammer]

They elected Hamas to power in the first place.  After Israel withdrew. 

in 2006, a plurality of voters in the Gaza Strip voted for Hamas candidates to represent them in the legislature of the Palestinian National Authority.

The cumulative vote totals of Districts 12 thru 16, the five Gaza-based districts, was as follows:

Hamas: 48.27%
Fatah: 43.60%
others: 8.13%

so even in this election 17 years ago, most Gazans didn't vote for Hamas.

nor did most Hamas voters support the party's hardline stances, as this post-election survey demonstrates. 75% say Hamas should acknowledge Israel's right to exist and abandon their commitment to Israel's elimination. Also, 84% support peace with Israel. Because these numbers are so large, we can mathematically infer that even a majority of Hamas's own voters opposed their belligerence and warmongering!

Regardless of all the above, however, this vote was NOT about "who controls the Gaza Strip", it's about "who will represent you in the PNA Legislative Council". In no way should these results be used to legitimize the Hamas coup AGAINST the PNA, nor its armed takeover of the Gaza Strip and its imposition of a de facto independent government not affiliated with the rest of Palestine

The Hamas dictatorship has no democratic legitimacy whatsoever. The results of a PNA legislative election did not somehow proactively ratify the Hamas coup AGAINST the PNA - it's a claim literally straight out of the propaganda Hamas uses to maintain their dictatorship.

Hamas is a terrorist group and the many innocent civilians forced to live under its thumb are not in any way responsible for the horrifying massacres and other atrocities Hamas is doing.

Looking at the polls I suppose that people from Gaza would support Fatah over Hamas but let's not pretend otherwise Hamas doesn't have a significant part of Gaza"s population that are backing its methods. Probably not 50% but at least 30% and this is scary in itself.

[SnowLabrador]

I've seen a lot of speculation in one of my Discord servers that now is the perfect time for China to invade Taiwan, when nobody is paying attention to the Asia-Pacific. I'm sick of living through history.

[bilaps]

Israel evacuating 22 settlements near Gaza.

[jaichind]

Like Austria, Germany also switches from Ukraine to Israel

[Logical]

Like Austria, Germany also switches from Ukraine to Israel

Stock trader perplexed at the passage of time.

[Damocles]

Then there’s the people on Discord who say things like, “Israel should have a larger artillery park than both Koreas combined and have it trained on Gaza and the West Bank on quick-reaction alert 24/7, just in case…”

To be clear, they’re advocating Israel having enough artillery to completely level every building in Gaza and in the West Bank several times over. Oh, and Israel is not a party to various international conventions banning the use of biological or chemical weapons, has large stocks of napalm and other incendiary weapons, and refuses to ban either cluster munitions or land mines, so…

[CumbrianLefty]

Great job on the thread everyone! Congratulations due all around.

I can confidently say that after keeping up with this all day, that I hardly know more from this thread than I did at 10:00am. On the plus side I now know what an East German apartment looked like.

As predicted, we reach page 25 on same day.
I've never seen a thread in IGD move this quickly.

Russia Ukraine?

The only singular day I ever recall things moving remotely this quickly was the Prigozhin "mutiny" and even then I don't think it moved this fast. The 20,000+ posts in the RU-UA war megathread built up over many months and practically two years, didn't they?

Russia-Ukraine pushed 35 pages on Feb 24, 2022.

But the thread was started a few months before the actual war began.

[jaichind]

Well, if Israel is going to have a position (from 2016) that "We Don’t Want ISIS Defeated in Syria" which I totally understand from a geopolitical perspective then they should not complain when now others might say "We do not want Hamas defeated in Gaza"

[CumbrianLefty]

Well, if Israel is going to have a position (from 2016) that "We Don’t Want ISIS Defeated in Syria" which I totally understand from a geopolitical perspective then they should not complain when now others might say "We do not want Hamas defeated in Gaza"

And on this occasion, you make a not unreasonable point. In several respects, these horrible events are the "cleverness" of certain prominent people in Israel coming back to bite them.

Which does not alter the need for Hamas to be crushed, just in case anyone misunderstands.

[Bacon King]

Well, if Israel is going to have a position (from 2016) that "We Don’t Want ISIS Defeated in Syria" which I totally understand from a geopolitical perspective then they should not complain when now others might say "We do not want Hamas defeated in Gaza"

I tried looking up the source here so I could fact-check it and understand/judge the context for myself.

Only a few random blogs and fringe websites have ever posted this headline by this author. Each one provides a source link, each link takes you to one of the different rando sites where the author posted it, each time linking his own identical post on another site as the sole source. I traveled down these links to see where it went, and it carried me through literally every result google gave me when i searched the headline before the trail ended when it linked to a post on blogspot that no longer exists.

Each identical copy of the post claims this news was covered on the Hebrew language news site NRG, and they're reporting it from there... but i have found literally no evidence this article exists

since then, NRG rebranded itself to "Makorrishon" but it maintains a complete archive of the old NRG site here: https://www.makorrishon.co.il/nrg/online/HP_0.html

I have already spent too much of my pre-work free time this morning attempting in vain to locate this original source and at this point I'm like 80% sure it never existed, which I probably should have known based on the fact that it wasn't linked anywhere in that daisy chain of reposts.

I have to actually go to work now but anyone who wants to claim this image as factual is certainly free to continue searching the NRG website in my stead

[CumbrianLefty]

And as for that (predictable as clockwork) Jezza tweet - yes it is crassly simplistic and totally misreads how most people in the UK (including Labour supporters) currently see this.

But actually, obviously anti-Semitic? Not convinced tbh - and to the extent Corbyn *is* AS, it is rather more a process of omission than commission. He doesn't actually hate Jews in the overt way that a completely rancid bigot like Chris Williamson does. But he doesn't really care about them either.

[jaichind]

I tried looking up the source here so I could fact-check it and understand/judge the context for myself.

Only a few random blogs and fringe websites have ever posted this headline by this author. Each one provides a source link, each link takes you to one of the different rando sites where the author posted it, each time linking his own identical post on another site as the sole source. I traveled down these links to see where it went, and it carried me through literally every result google gave me when i searched the headline before the trail ended when it linked to a post on blogspot that no longer exists.

Each identical copy of the post claims this news was covered on the Hebrew language news site NRG, and they're reporting it from there... but i have found literally no evidence this article exists

since then, NRG rebranded itself to "Makorrishon" but it maintains a complete archive of the old NRG site here: https://www.makorrishon.co.il/nrg/online/HP_0.html

I have already spent too much of my pre-work free time this morning attempting in vain to locate this original source and at this point I'm like 80% sure it never existed, which I probably should have known based on the fact that it wasn't linked anywhere in that daisy chain of reposts.

I have to actually go to work now but anyone who wants to claim this image as factual is certainly free to continue searching the NRG website in my stead

The link to the original article is gone.  There is a link of something similar in 2016

"Ya'alon: In choice between Iran and ISIS, I prefer ISIS"

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4755215,00.html

[DavidB.]

The link to the original article is gone.  There is a link of something similar in 2016

"Ya'alon: In choice between Iran and ISIS, I prefer ISIS"

That's a completely different statement than the original claim to which Bacon King was responding.

[Ferguson97]

Like Austria, Germany also switches from Ukraine to Israel

Stock trader perplexed at the passage of time.

I wonder if these people thought that everyone switching their Facebook profile pictures from the pink equals sign to the French flag back in the 2010s meant they stopped supporting gay marriage. It's the same logic, that you can only care about one thing at once.

[jaichind]

The link to the original article is gone.  There is a link of something similar in 2016

"Ya'alon: In choice between Iran and ISIS, I prefer ISIS"

That's a completely different statement than the original claim to which Bacon King was responding.

Did some more digging.  Found

https://middleeastpress.com/english/israeli-general-we-do-not-want-isis-defeat-in-syria/

"Israeli General: We Do Not Want ISIS Defeat In Syria"

MEP: Israeli intelligence Chief, Major General Herzi Halevi, said that the last three months have been the most difficult for ISIS since its inception.

In a speech delivered at “Herzliya” conference yesterday, Halevi explicitly said “Israel” does not want the situation in Syria to end with the defeat of ISIS “, the Israeli NRG site reported.