Israel-Gaza war

[Libertas Vel Mors]

https://twitter.com/YousefMunayyer/status/1710777795159228886?t=wajpLhMMxHwcSi0A...

At this point I really don't see why Mods aren't letting us have these discussions. If Likud is having this discussion then I think it is worth considering. I am a free speech absolutist, so I do have a much greater tolerance for this kind of stuff even in other fields, but given the circumstances I do think that in the coming days both Israel and certain Western factions may be considering/supporting options like this.

Are you actually out of your fücking mind? Why in Allah's name should genocide and ethnic cleansing EVER be considered an option?

1. I can't answer on the merits due to moderating policy for the latter. I will say for the former that genocide is always wrong because it takes innocent lives unnecessarily.

2. It should be discussed and freely debated because its going to be a major policy discussion in Israel and the West over the following days. Israel cannot allow Hamas to freely exist in the Gaza Strip after this, and it cannot afford to permanently occupy the Gaza Strip. That lives only one realistic option, as I believe many already recognize.

Rot in Jahannam you fücking bastard

Yeah I'm not the one cheering on murderers and savages.

What would you do if an enclave of cartel members (backed by 2 million people who enthusiastically supported the cartel members and molested the bodies of captured American women and American soldiers in the street) bombarded New York 24/7? Would you say "sorry, yeah, nothing the US can do"?

What if the US had given them everything they wanted re: their enclave, and even kicked Americans out of their homes to do so, but those cartel members still used that as an opportunity to spend the next two decades raiding the US, and then escalating their raids to the point of invading the US and slaughtering and raping Americans, under the demand the US give the entire Southwest back to Mexico? Would you still say the same thing?

Well for starters, I wouldn't be supporting fücking genocide, unlike you.

Genocide is immoral and wrong because it kills innocent people. I don't support genocide.

And what the hell do you think "expelling the Gaza strip population" would entail genius?

Demolishing homes and expelling the population to Egypt, like what happened with Germans after WW2. Let Egypt take care of them, pay for the camps etc, so long as they are at least 100 miles from the Israeli border.

And if they refuse or Egypt refuses to take them in then what?

Egypt can't refuse. Once they're past the Egyptian border and Israel is offering to pay for the camps Egypt won't be able to simply let them starve.

And do tell us how you're gonna make them get across the Egyptian border? I'm sure it's not gonna be sunshine and rainbows like you think it's gonna be.

Trucks? It won't be any more deaths than an occupation would be anyway, which is what everyone else is proposing, because every 16+ male is going to be trying to suicide bomb Israelis either way. The question is simply whether this happens once or for the next several decades.

[Ferguson97]

Genocide is immoral and wrong because it kills innocent people. I don't support genocide.

so reading between the lines here, you obviously support ethnic cleansing

you think that won't kill innocent people??

Yeah, actually. Give the Gazans to Egypt. Pay for the refugee camps even but don't let Gaza continue to exist as a terrorist installation.

And if [when] Egypt says “no, f**k off”?

Give Egypt no choice. Move them past the Egyptian border and Egypt will not be able to say no without sparking an internal revolution.  

You are completely insane.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I have avoided this thread until now, but Haley/Ryan has forced me to jump in. I believe Israel should carry out an operation to destroy the infrastructure of Hamas in the Gaza Strip and eliminate them as a political and military force. This is what I believe to be a reasonable, albeit hawkish position. Haley/Ryan's call for ethnic cleansing is out of line, inappropriate, ghoulish, and if Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing, it would face global condemnation.

How does Israel do that? If they do it once they pop up again. Do you want Israel to occupy Gaza forever?

If that is what it takes, yes. Infinitely preferable to the scenario you outline. Israel is in a no-win position: they tried land for peace in Gaza and it clearly failed. This tragically suggests that some sort of indefinite occupation is probably the only acceptable outcome, unless they can manage to sufficiently bribe Egypt to foist Gaza off on them (which is not going to happen, it is pure wishful thinking).

That means hundreds of Israelis dead per year. There is not West Bank solution here because Gaza is so dense: Israel can't even just maintain troops at the edge of cities because Gaza is basically one urban conglameration.

I agree that Egypt won't voluntarily take them which is why Egypt can't be given a choice.

Are you suggesting invading or threatening to invade Egypt if they don't admit the entire Gazan population?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Genocide is immoral and wrong because it kills innocent people. I don't support genocide.

so reading between the lines here, you obviously support ethnic cleansing

you think that won't kill innocent people??

Yeah, actually. Give the Gazans to Egypt. Pay for the refugee camps even but don't let Gaza continue to exist as a terrorist installation.

And if [when] Egypt says “no, f**k off”?

Give Egypt no choice. Move them past the Egyptian border and Egypt will not be able to say no without sparking an internal revolution.  

You are completely insane.

Right, unlike the people who want a nation of 8 million to spend the next several decades occupying Gaza all so that the people who elected Hamas, who support Hamas, who rape and molest Israelis in the streets, don't have to live in a country of their co-religionists, paid for by the Israeli government.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

I have avoided this thread until now, but Haley/Ryan has forced me to jump in. I believe Israel should carry out an operation to destroy the infrastructure of Hamas in the Gaza Strip and eliminate them as a political and military force. This is what I believe to be a reasonable, albeit hawkish position. Haley/Ryan's call for ethnic cleansing is out of line, inappropriate, ghoulish, and if Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing, it would face global condemnation.

How does Israel do that? If they do it once they pop up again. Do you want Israel to occupy Gaza forever?

If that is what it takes, yes. Infinitely preferable to the scenario you outline. Israel is in a no-win position: they tried land for peace in Gaza and it clearly failed. This tragically suggests that some sort of indefinite occupation is probably the only acceptable outcome, unless they can manage to sufficiently bribe Egypt to foist Gaza off on them (which is not going to happen, it is pure wishful thinking).

That means hundreds of Israelis dead per year. There is not West Bank solution here because Gaza is so dense: Israel can't even just maintain troops at the edge of cities because Gaza is basically one urban conglameration.

I agree that Egypt won't voluntarily take them which is why Egypt can't be given a choice.

Are you suggesting invading or threatening to invade Egypt if they don't admit the entire Gazan population?

No, just literally moving people across the border. You don't need to go all the way to Cairo, just across the border as it already exists.

[Aurelius2]

I have avoided this thread until now, but Haley/Ryan has forced me to jump in. I believe Israel should carry out an operation to destroy the infrastructure of Hamas in the Gaza Strip and eliminate them as a political and military force. This is what I believe to be a reasonable, albeit hawkish position. Haley/Ryan's call for ethnic cleansing is out of line, inappropriate, ghoulish, and if Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing, it would face global condemnation.

How does Israel do that? If they do it once they pop up again. Do you want Israel to occupy Gaza forever?

If that is what it takes, yes. Infinitely preferable to the scenario you outline. Israel is in a no-win position: they tried land for peace in Gaza and it clearly failed. This tragically suggests that some sort of indefinite occupation is probably the only acceptable outcome, unless they can manage to sufficiently bribe Egypt to foist Gaza off on them (which is not going to happen, it is pure wishful thinking).

That means hundreds of Israelis dead per year. There is not West Bank solution here because Gaza is so dense: Israel can't even just maintain troops at the edge of cities because Gaza is basically one urban conglameration.

I agree that Egypt won't voluntarily take them which is why Egypt can't be given a choice.

I imagine that trying to force Egypt to take them would likely trigger a regional gang-up war against Israel along the lines of the Six Day War or the Yom Kippur War. Egypt does not want two million refugees who have been radicalized into supporting extreme Islamists, which the Egyptian regime loathes, and who will probably attempt to launch attacks into Israel from Egyptian territory. Forcing Egypt to take them would likely mean another invasion of the Sinai. And Israel no longer has the huge military advantage they had back in the days of those wars. Iran's influence has changed all that.

It is true that there is no good solution here. If the UN wasn't so rabidly anti-Israel I would be tempted to propose just handing off Gaza to the UN as a protectorate.

[Horus]

I have avoided this thread until now, but Haley/Ryan has forced me to jump in. I believe Israel should carry out an operation to destroy the infrastructure of Hamas in the Gaza Strip and eliminate them as a political and military force. This is what I believe to be a reasonable, albeit hawkish position. Haley/Ryan's call for ethnic cleansing is out of line, inappropriate, ghoulish, and if Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing, it would face global condemnation.

How does Israel do that? If they do it once they pop up again. Do you want Israel to occupy Gaza forever?

If that is what it takes, yes. Infinitely preferable to the scenario you outline. Israel is in a no-win position: they tried land for peace in Gaza and it clearly failed. This tragically suggests that some sort of indefinite occupation is probably the only acceptable outcome, unless they can manage to sufficiently bribe Egypt to foist Gaza off on them (which is not going to happen, it is pure wishful thinking).

That means hundreds of Israelis dead per year. There is not West Bank solution here because Gaza is so dense: Israel can't even just maintain troops at the edge of cities because Gaza is basically one urban conglameration.

I agree that Egypt won't voluntarily take them which is why Egypt can't be given a choice.

Are you suggesting invading or threatening to invade Egypt if they don't admit the entire Gazan population?

No, just literally moving people across the border. You don't need to go all the way to Cairo, just across the border as it already exists.

So an invasion.

[Hnv1]

Watching some of the drone footage from the early wave Hamas released. I see Russian fingertips.

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

https://twitter.com/YousefMunayyer/status/1710777795159228886?t=wajpLhMMxHwcSi0A...

At this point I really don't see why Mods aren't letting us have these discussions. If Likud is having this discussion then I think it is worth considering. I am a free speech absolutist, so I do have a much greater tolerance for this kind of stuff even in other fields, but given the circumstances I do think that in the coming days both Israel and certain Western factions may be considering/supporting options like this.

Are you actually out of your fücking mind? Why in Allah's name should genocide and ethnic cleansing EVER be considered an option?

1. I can't answer on the merits due to moderating policy for the latter. I will say for the former that genocide is always wrong because it takes innocent lives unnecessarily.

2. It should be discussed and freely debated because its going to be a major policy discussion in Israel and the West over the following days. Israel cannot allow Hamas to freely exist in the Gaza Strip after this, and it cannot afford to permanently occupy the Gaza Strip. That lives only one realistic option, as I believe many already recognize.

Rot in Jahannam you fücking bastard

Yeah I'm not the one cheering on murderers and savages.

What would you do if an enclave of cartel members (backed by 2 million people who enthusiastically supported the cartel members and molested the bodies of captured American women and American soldiers in the street) bombarded New York 24/7? Would you say "sorry, yeah, nothing the US can do"?

What if the US had given them everything they wanted re: their enclave, and even kicked Americans out of their homes to do so, but those cartel members still used that as an opportunity to spend the next two decades raiding the US, and then escalating their raids to the point of invading the US and slaughtering and raping Americans, under the demand the US give the entire Southwest back to Mexico? Would you still say the same thing?

Well for starters, I wouldn't be supporting fücking genocide, unlike you.

Genocide is immoral and wrong because it kills innocent people. I don't support genocide.

And what the hell do you think "expelling the Gaza strip population" would entail genius?

Demolishing homes and expelling the population to Egypt, like what happened with Germans after WW2. Let Egypt take care of them, pay for the camps etc, so long as they are at least 100 miles from the Israeli border.

And if they refuse or Egypt refuses to take them in then what?

Egypt can't refuse. Once they're past the Egyptian border and Israel is offering to pay for the camps Egypt won't be able to simply let them starve.

And do tell us how you're gonna make them get across the Egyptian border? I'm sure it's not gonna be sunshine and rainbows like you think it's gonna be.

Trucks? It won't be any more deaths than an occupation would be anyway, which is what everyone else is proposing, because every 16+ male is going to be trying to suicide bomb Israelis either way. The question is simply whether this happens once or for the next several decades.

And if they refuse to leave their homes to board Israeli trucks with totally peaceful intentions towards them being stranded in Egypt then what? Shoot first, ask questions later?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

I have avoided this thread until now, but Haley/Ryan has forced me to jump in. I believe Israel should carry out an operation to destroy the infrastructure of Hamas in the Gaza Strip and eliminate them as a political and military force. This is what I believe to be a reasonable, albeit hawkish position. Haley/Ryan's call for ethnic cleansing is out of line, inappropriate, ghoulish, and if Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing, it would face global condemnation.

How does Israel do that? If they do it once they pop up again. Do you want Israel to occupy Gaza forever?

If that is what it takes, yes. Infinitely preferable to the scenario you outline. Israel is in a no-win position: they tried land for peace in Gaza and it clearly failed. This tragically suggests that some sort of indefinite occupation is probably the only acceptable outcome, unless they can manage to sufficiently bribe Egypt to foist Gaza off on them (which is not going to happen, it is pure wishful thinking).

That means hundreds of Israelis dead per year. There is not West Bank solution here because Gaza is so dense: Israel can't even just maintain troops at the edge of cities because Gaza is basically one urban conglameration.

I agree that Egypt won't voluntarily take them which is why Egypt can't be given a choice.

I imagine that trying to force Egypt to take them would likely trigger a regional gang-up war against Israel along the lines of the Six Day War or the Yom Kippur War. Egypt does not want two million refugees who have been radicalized into supporting extreme Islamists, which the Egyptian regime loathes, and who will probably attempt to launch attacks into Israel from Egyptian territory. Forcing Egypt to take them would likely mean another invasion of the Sinai. And Israel no longer has the huge military advantage they had back in the days of those wars. Iran's influence has changed all that.

No, it probably just means a situation along the types that already exist in Lebanon and Syria where Egypt establishes huge refugee camps. Egypt definitely does not want to and cannot fight Israel in a conventional war. Actually, its military advantage is probably bigger today.

Separately, isn't it telling (not in a bad faith way, just in a this is impractical way) that your stance is that "israel can't send them to egypt because egypt wouldn't want to deal with these crazy terrorists" but that Israel should have to govern these people instead?

[Bacon King]

Demolishing homes and expelling the population to Egypt, like what happened with Germans after WW2. Let Egypt take care of them, pay for the camps etc, so long as they are at least 100 miles from the Israeli border.

this is unhinged

the Gaza Strip has a population of two million people ffs

you want to take this massive population and force them to live in camps, forcibly concentrating all those people together, to guarantee they stay out? Even though most of them have never done anything wrong?

you think this is a normal thing leaders will propose as a solution? you think Egypt or anywhere else for that matter would be willing to go along with it? You think this is a morally acceptable outcome??

i will say again: you are literally a sociopath

[Damocles]

Ironic that those posters here who advocate for a “Final Solution” to the “Palestinian question” do so in the context of that particular state and society, and in that particular part of the world. Shameful!

[Libertas Vel Mors]

https://twitter.com/YousefMunayyer/status/1710777795159228886?t=wajpLhMMxHwcSi0A...

At this point I really don't see why Mods aren't letting us have these discussions. If Likud is having this discussion then I think it is worth considering. I am a free speech absolutist, so I do have a much greater tolerance for this kind of stuff even in other fields, but given the circumstances I do think that in the coming days both Israel and certain Western factions may be considering/supporting options like this.

Are you actually out of your fücking mind? Why in Allah's name should genocide and ethnic cleansing EVER be considered an option?

1. I can't answer on the merits due to moderating policy for the latter. I will say for the former that genocide is always wrong because it takes innocent lives unnecessarily.

2. It should be discussed and freely debated because its going to be a major policy discussion in Israel and the West over the following days. Israel cannot allow Hamas to freely exist in the Gaza Strip after this, and it cannot afford to permanently occupy the Gaza Strip. That lives only one realistic option, as I believe many already recognize.

Rot in Jahannam you fücking bastard

Yeah I'm not the one cheering on murderers and savages.

What would you do if an enclave of cartel members (backed by 2 million people who enthusiastically supported the cartel members and molested the bodies of captured American women and American soldiers in the street) bombarded New York 24/7? Would you say "sorry, yeah, nothing the US can do"?

What if the US had given them everything they wanted re: their enclave, and even kicked Americans out of their homes to do so, but those cartel members still used that as an opportunity to spend the next two decades raiding the US, and then escalating their raids to the point of invading the US and slaughtering and raping Americans, under the demand the US give the entire Southwest back to Mexico? Would you still say the same thing?

Well for starters, I wouldn't be supporting fücking genocide, unlike you.

Genocide is immoral and wrong because it kills innocent people. I don't support genocide.

And what the hell do you think "expelling the Gaza strip population" would entail genius?

Demolishing homes and expelling the population to Egypt, like what happened with Germans after WW2. Let Egypt take care of them, pay for the camps etc, so long as they are at least 100 miles from the Israeli border.

And if they refuse or Egypt refuses to take them in then what?

Egypt can't refuse. Once they're past the Egyptian border and Israel is offering to pay for the camps Egypt won't be able to simply let them starve.

And do tell us how you're gonna make them get across the Egyptian border? I'm sure it's not gonna be sunshine and rainbows like you think it's gonna be.

Trucks? It won't be any more deaths than an occupation would be anyway, which is what everyone else is proposing, because every 16+ male is going to be trying to suicide bomb Israelis either way. The question is simply whether this happens once or for the next several decades.

And if they refuse to leave their homes to board Israeli trucks with totally peaceful intentions towards being stranded in Egypt then what? Shoot first, ask questions later?

Just literally force them on? Same way Hamas forced Israelis on to trucks today, or that Germans were moved in 1946 in a much less justified expulsion.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Ironic that those posters here who advocate for a “Final Solution” to the “Palestinian question” do so in the context of that particular state and society, and in that particular part of the world. Shameful!

I don't advocate for any sort of final solution: this would leave the entire West Bank as a continuing problem. It would just move 2 million people from one scrap of desert to another.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Demolishing homes and expelling the population to Egypt, like what happened with Germans after WW2. Let Egypt take care of them, pay for the camps etc, so long as they are at least 100 miles from the Israeli border.

this is unhinged

the Gaza Strip has a population of two million people ffs

you want to take this massive population and force them to live in camps, forcibly concentrating all those people together, to guarantee they stay out? Even though most of them have never done anything wrong?

you think this is a normal thing leaders will propose as a solution? you think Egypt or anywhere else for that matter would be willing to go along with it? You think this is a morally acceptable outcome??

i will say again: you are literally a sociopath

Gaza is literally already a dense concentration of people similar to refugee camps in Lebanon and Syria. And I don't think it, I know it. Read Hebrew language media or just the tweet that started this.

And I don't think its morally ideal but I think the alternative is morally far worse because it forces the victims to police the perpetrators rather than punishing them.

[Aurelius2]

I have avoided this thread until now, but Haley/Ryan has forced me to jump in. I believe Israel should carry out an operation to destroy the infrastructure of Hamas in the Gaza Strip and eliminate them as a political and military force. This is what I believe to be a reasonable, albeit hawkish position. Haley/Ryan's call for ethnic cleansing is out of line, inappropriate, ghoulish, and if Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing, it would face global condemnation.

How does Israel do that? If they do it once they pop up again. Do you want Israel to occupy Gaza forever?

If that is what it takes, yes. Infinitely preferable to the scenario you outline. Israel is in a no-win position: they tried land for peace in Gaza and it clearly failed. This tragically suggests that some sort of indefinite occupation is probably the only acceptable outcome, unless they can manage to sufficiently bribe Egypt to foist Gaza off on them (which is not going to happen, it is pure wishful thinking).

That means hundreds of Israelis dead per year. There is not West Bank solution here because Gaza is so dense: Israel can't even just maintain troops at the edge of cities because Gaza is basically one urban conglameration.

I agree that Egypt won't voluntarily take them which is why Egypt can't be given a choice.

I imagine that trying to force Egypt to take them would likely trigger a regional gang-up war against Israel along the lines of the Six Day War or the Yom Kippur War. Egypt does not want two million refugees who have been radicalized into supporting extreme Islamists, which the Egyptian regime loathes, and who will probably attempt to launch attacks into Israel from Egyptian territory. Forcing Egypt to take them would likely mean another invasion of the Sinai. And Israel no longer has the huge military advantage they had back in the days of those wars. Iran's influence has changed all that.

No, it probably just means a situation along the types that already exist in Lebanon and Syria where Egypt establishes huge refugee camps. Egypt definitely does not want to and cannot fight Israel in a conventional war. Actually, its military advantage is probably bigger today.

Separately, isn't it telling (not in a bad faith way, just in a this is impractical way) that your stance is that "israel can't send them to egypt because egypt wouldn't want to deal with these crazy terrorists" but that Israel should have to govern these people instead?

I am not going to pretend I have a good solution here, but I'm not going to endorse forcing 2 million people out of their homes. I get that I am behind my keyboard thousands of miles from this whole mess, and that many (most?) Israelis will probably feel differently and just desperately want something, anything to stop the terrorist attacks. I'm not going to pretend I know with certainty that if I and my loved ones had been under attack like this our whole lives I wouldn't think differently.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

I have avoided this thread until now, but Haley/Ryan has forced me to jump in. I believe Israel should carry out an operation to destroy the infrastructure of Hamas in the Gaza Strip and eliminate them as a political and military force. This is what I believe to be a reasonable, albeit hawkish position. Haley/Ryan's call for ethnic cleansing is out of line, inappropriate, ghoulish, and if Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing, it would face global condemnation.

How does Israel do that? If they do it once they pop up again. Do you want Israel to occupy Gaza forever?

If that is what it takes, yes. Infinitely preferable to the scenario you outline. Israel is in a no-win position: they tried land for peace in Gaza and it clearly failed. This tragically suggests that some sort of indefinite occupation is probably the only acceptable outcome, unless they can manage to sufficiently bribe Egypt to foist Gaza off on them (which is not going to happen, it is pure wishful thinking).

That means hundreds of Israelis dead per year. There is not West Bank solution here because Gaza is so dense: Israel can't even just maintain troops at the edge of cities because Gaza is basically one urban conglameration.

I agree that Egypt won't voluntarily take them which is why Egypt can't be given a choice.

I imagine that trying to force Egypt to take them would likely trigger a regional gang-up war against Israel along the lines of the Six Day War or the Yom Kippur War. Egypt does not want two million refugees who have been radicalized into supporting extreme Islamists, which the Egyptian regime loathes, and who will probably attempt to launch attacks into Israel from Egyptian territory. Forcing Egypt to take them would likely mean another invasion of the Sinai. And Israel no longer has the huge military advantage they had back in the days of those wars. Iran's influence has changed all that.

No, it probably just means a situation along the types that already exist in Lebanon and Syria where Egypt establishes huge refugee camps. Egypt definitely does not want to and cannot fight Israel in a conventional war. Actually, its military advantage is probably bigger today.

Separately, isn't it telling (not in a bad faith way, just in a this is impractical way) that your stance is that "israel can't send them to egypt because egypt wouldn't want to deal with these crazy terrorists" but that Israel should have to govern these people instead?

How is this Egypt's problem? How do you actually think forcing Egypt to accept refugees for your little ethnic cleansing experiment would fare out long-term?  How do you think those consequences would affect Israel?

[soundchaser]

Hamas was elected by a narrow margin in 2006, so pretending there’s been any real choice for the people of Gaza in the last two decades is disingenuous at best. The other reasons why ethnic cleansing aren’t ok should be fairly obvious aside from that.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

I have avoided this thread until now, but Haley/Ryan has forced me to jump in. I believe Israel should carry out an operation to destroy the infrastructure of Hamas in the Gaza Strip and eliminate them as a political and military force. This is what I believe to be a reasonable, albeit hawkish position. Haley/Ryan's call for ethnic cleansing is out of line, inappropriate, ghoulish, and if Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing, it would face global condemnation.

How does Israel do that? If they do it once they pop up again. Do you want Israel to occupy Gaza forever?

If that is what it takes, yes. Infinitely preferable to the scenario you outline. Israel is in a no-win position: they tried land for peace in Gaza and it clearly failed. This tragically suggests that some sort of indefinite occupation is probably the only acceptable outcome, unless they can manage to sufficiently bribe Egypt to foist Gaza off on them (which is not going to happen, it is pure wishful thinking).

That means hundreds of Israelis dead per year. There is not West Bank solution here because Gaza is so dense: Israel can't even just maintain troops at the edge of cities because Gaza is basically one urban conglameration.

I agree that Egypt won't voluntarily take them which is why Egypt can't be given a choice.

I imagine that trying to force Egypt to take them would likely trigger a regional gang-up war against Israel along the lines of the Six Day War or the Yom Kippur War. Egypt does not want two million refugees who have been radicalized into supporting extreme Islamists, which the Egyptian regime loathes, and who will probably attempt to launch attacks into Israel from Egyptian territory. Forcing Egypt to take them would likely mean another invasion of the Sinai. And Israel no longer has the huge military advantage they had back in the days of those wars. Iran's influence has changed all that.

No, it probably just means a situation along the types that already exist in Lebanon and Syria where Egypt establishes huge refugee camps. Egypt definitely does not want to and cannot fight Israel in a conventional war. Actually, its military advantage is probably bigger today.

Separately, isn't it telling (not in a bad faith way, just in a this is impractical way) that your stance is that "israel can't send them to egypt because egypt wouldn't want to deal with these crazy terrorists" but that Israel should have to govern these people instead?

I am not going to pretend I have a good solution here, but I'm not going to endorse forcing 2 million people out of their homes. I get that I am behind my keyboard thousands of miles from this whole mess, and that many (most?) Israelis will probably feel differently and just desperately want something, anything to stop the terrorist attacks.

I agree it's not ideal. But there is literally no other plausible solution that is not

A. This happens again, and again

B. All Israelis vanish into thin air

C. Thousands of Israelis lose their lives policing Gaza

D. Far worse

[H. Ross Peron]

It's very similar to the Tet Offensive so far and I suspect the end result-VC/Hamas ceasing to be an effective fighting force-will be the same.

A much darker parallel is to King Philip's War.

[Ferguson97]

I don't advocate for any sort of final solution: this would leave the entire West Bank as a continuing problem. It would just move 2 million people from one scrap of desert to another.

And if those 2 million people refuse to move?

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

https://twitter.com/YousefMunayyer/status/1710777795159228886?t=wajpLhMMxHwcSi0A...

At this point I really don't see why Mods aren't letting us have these discussions. If Likud is having this discussion then I think it is worth considering. I am a free speech absolutist, so I do have a much greater tolerance for this kind of stuff even in other fields, but given the circumstances I do think that in the coming days both Israel and certain Western factions may be considering/supporting options like this.

Are you actually out of your fücking mind? Why in Allah's name should genocide and ethnic cleansing EVER be considered an option?

1. I can't answer on the merits due to moderating policy for the latter. I will say for the former that genocide is always wrong because it takes innocent lives unnecessarily.

2. It should be discussed and freely debated because its going to be a major policy discussion in Israel and the West over the following days. Israel cannot allow Hamas to freely exist in the Gaza Strip after this, and it cannot afford to permanently occupy the Gaza Strip. That lives only one realistic option, as I believe many already recognize.

Rot in Jahannam you fücking bastard

Yeah I'm not the one cheering on murderers and savages.

What would you do if an enclave of cartel members (backed by 2 million people who enthusiastically supported the cartel members and molested the bodies of captured American women and American soldiers in the street) bombarded New York 24/7? Would you say "sorry, yeah, nothing the US can do"?

What if the US had given them everything they wanted re: their enclave, and even kicked Americans out of their homes to do so, but those cartel members still used that as an opportunity to spend the next two decades raiding the US, and then escalating their raids to the point of invading the US and slaughtering and raping Americans, under the demand the US give the entire Southwest back to Mexico? Would you still say the same thing?

Well for starters, I wouldn't be supporting fücking genocide, unlike you.

Genocide is immoral and wrong because it kills innocent people. I don't support genocide.

And what the hell do you think "expelling the Gaza strip population" would entail genius?

Demolishing homes and expelling the population to Egypt, like what happened with Germans after WW2. Let Egypt take care of them, pay for the camps etc, so long as they are at least 100 miles from the Israeli border.

And if they refuse or Egypt refuses to take them in then what?

Egypt can't refuse. Once they're past the Egyptian border and Israel is offering to pay for the camps Egypt won't be able to simply let them starve.

And do tell us how you're gonna make them get across the Egyptian border? I'm sure it's not gonna be sunshine and rainbows like you think it's gonna be.

Trucks? It won't be any more deaths than an occupation would be anyway, which is what everyone else is proposing, because every 16+ male is going to be trying to suicide bomb Israelis either way. The question is simply whether this happens once or for the next several decades.

And if they refuse to leave their homes to board Israeli trucks with totally peaceful intentions towards being stranded in Egypt then what? Shoot first, ask questions later?

Just literally force them on? Same way Hamas forced Israelis on to trucks today, or that Germans were moved in 1946 in a much less justified expulsion.

Well I hope every single one of those Palestinians in that hypothetical scenario of yours resists till their dying breath being forced to leave their home to fulfill your deranged genocidal desires

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Hamas was elected by a narrow margin in 2006, so pretending there’s been any real choice for the people of Gaza in the last two decades is disingenuous at best. The other reasons why ethnic cleansing aren’t ok should be fairly obvious aside from that.

Not true: they won by a narrow margin nationally but by more in Gaza. Their support has also risen throughout every part of the Palestinian people, but especially Gaza, since then.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

I don't advocate for any sort of final solution: this would leave the entire West Bank as a continuing problem. It would just move 2 million people from one scrap of desert to another.

And if those 2 million people refuse to move?

Force them, like Germans in 1946?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Hamas was elected by a narrow margin in 2006, so pretending there’s been any real choice for the people of Gaza in the last two decades is disingenuous at best. The other reasons why ethnic cleansing aren’t ok should be fairly obvious aside from that.

Not true: they won by a narrow margin nationally but by more in Gaza. Their support has also risen throughout every part of the Palestinian people, but especially Gaza, since then.

I can only wonder why.