Israel-Gaza war

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

All of this is very sad, and also very unsurprising. This part of the world has been at war for thousands of years and I don't see that ending in the next thousand.

The Middle East wasn't inherently any more violent of a place than, say, Europe, prior to 1945. This current tragedy is the result of decades of deliberate policy choices by the Israeli state.

No , the reason the Middle East is violent is because of radical Islamists who want to destroy all non Islamic religions

LMAO

[Cassius]

Can we partition the thread and put a Beirut Wall up between discussion of ongoing events and the seminar on the Geopolitics of the Middle East since 1945?

[Hnv1]

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1710696953447936075?s=20

cut them from all supplies.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Was hoping for updates when I opened this thread in the morning.  Shouldn't have been surprised that I got just a ton of jaichind pro-Russia spam as well as a few dickhead users trying to justify indiscriminate mass murder of civilians by terrorists.

Maybe it's because it's night over there, but things seem to have quieted down a little bit.  I'm sure Israel will strike back at Gaza soon.  I've heard rumors of photo/video footage of Palestinian atrocities -- in particular people keep mentioning some video of a dead Israeli woman stripped naked and paraded through the streets of Gaza for abuse -- but the internet being what it is, even if they do exist, those videos are all being deleted if they even exist.  Heaven forbid we actually get primary documentation of an ongoing conflict because it might be "disturbing" or "violate the TOS."  It could all just be fake rumors, we have no way of knowing.

This highlights a problem with social media becoming the main source for news.  The NYT is useless right now, just a live feed of speculation from the same idiot pundits who are always wrong about everything.  And cable news is even worse.  Fox and MSNBC are both looking at this through a political lens -- what does this mean for Biden.  Only CNN is actually doing their job, but even they are just reposting statements and videos without providing anything useful like maps or breakdowns.

Obviously this is a tremendous failure of the Netanyahu Administration.  His entire M.O. was supposed to be protecting Israel at all costs.  And now he's failed to protect Israel.  On the 50th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War -- you'd think this would be a red letter day on the IDF's calendar.  His deal with Saudi Arabia is going to fall apart now as well.  Israel is lucky that Jordan, Syria and Lebanon haven't made any effort to join this latest invasion, because Israeli intelligence and defense looks weaker than it has in years.

I would be shocked if Hamas as an organization survives this.  Israel could launch a full-scale invasion of Gaza to rip out Hamas root-and-stem, expel their leadership from Gaza and force Palestine to hold new elections, or simply run it themselves under martial law.  And I wouldn't blame them at all.

This invasion perfectly illustrates how ridiculous the status quo was.  Gaza was a hostile state sitting on Israel's doorstep, led by a democratically-elected terrorist group whose sole mission was the genocide of the Jews, a group that regularly launched cross-border attacks on Israeli civilians.  No other nation would accept this situation.  If Mexico elected the head of MS-13 as their president, changed their constitution to say that Mexico was a state dedicated to the annihilation of America, and started launching terrorist attacks across the Mexican border, would we just chill out and take it for decades?  No, we would invade Mexico almost immediately, kill their president, crush their army and take over their government.  And we'd be totally justified in doing so.  But everyone always expects Israel to refrain from violence and seek peace no matter the cost, even as Hamas gets to perpetrate violence on a daily basis and has zero interest in any sort of path to peace.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

If Mexico elected the head of MS-13 as their president, changed their constitution to say that Mexico was a state dedicated to the annihilation of America, and started launching terrorist attacks across the Mexican border, would we just chill out and take it for decades?  No, we would invade Mexico almost immediately, kill their president, crush their army and take over their government.  And we'd be totally justified in doing so.  But everyone always expects Israel to refrain from violence and seek peace no matter the cost, even as Hamas gets to perpetrate violence on a daily basis and has zero interest in any sort of path to peace.

Is this before or after the United States in this scenario has most of Mexico under military occupation, divides up Mexican villages with walls and checkpoints, and is illegally settling white evangelical Americans on internationally-recognized Mexican territory, with the rest being a blockaded coastal strip?

[The Mikado]

Roger Waters called Hamas "the democratically elected government of Gaza," showed up on Hamas TV and spewed a bunch of antisemitic ravings about Sheldon Adelson being the "puppet master" of the US government, etc.

Still can't believe this guy is part of the reason I became so anti-Nazi...

He's probably not wrong on that.

When you haven't scheduled another election in seventeen years you lose the right to say "but we won the last time we let people weigh in!"

[The Mikado]

Insane some people here actually want the U.S. to enter the war. Not serious people.

Yes. Israelis are big boys and girls and do their own fighting as they always have.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Roger Waters called Hamas "the democratically elected government of Gaza," showed up on Hamas TV and spewed a bunch of antisemitic ravings about Sheldon Adelson being the "puppet master" of the US government, etc.

Still can't believe this guy is part of the reason I became so anti-Nazi...

He's probably not wrong on that.

When you haven't scheduled another election in seventeen years you lose the right to say "but we won the last time we let people weigh in!"

It's not even a country today, why expect a unrecognised nation that also has been at war for those seventeen years to hold elections. They're in a continuous emergency state.

[The Mikado]

Can we partition the thread and put a Beirut Wall up between discussion of ongoing events and the seminar on the Geopolitics of the Middle East since 1945?

The original UN partition of the thread didn't pan out, but hopefully the post-1948 borders of "creeps rooting for death and destruction out there, informed conversation in here" can last.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Austria is changing Ukraine flags to Israel.

This isn't about how big Putin's dick is, you parasite.

[WalterWhite]

I doubt Hamas will survive after this. Hamas only has 30000 soldiers, and Israel has 160000 soldiers. Hamas will also not have very much international support because it is bad optics for a world leader to support a terrorist organization. This could potentially be an opportunity for Fatah to regain power in the Gaza Strip.

[Velasco]

These are obviously morally depraved and not part of some noble Palestinian resistance. But there is a broader point what's the end game for Israel-Palestine that doesn't end with military occupation/segregation/ethnic cleansing.

Well, Hamas just made the whole Gaza-soon-not-habitable to be a whole lot sooner. If the Egyptians don't open the borders the humanitarian situation there is going to be dire

Well, the humanitarian situation in Gaza has been dire for decades and the primary responsibility is on Israeli authorities. It's very easy and short sighted to blame Hamas and forget about nearly 2 million of innocent civilians trapped there. As long as the actors involved --and specially the international community-- are unwilling to take action and continue turning a blind eye to Israel's brutality, this state of affairs will continue until the next escalation or war. Human rights organizations are repeatedly warning about this, but nobody wants to see.

Said this, all attacks on civilians are crimes of war and the attacks on Israeli civilians perpetrated by Palestinian militants are not exception.

It's clear Israeli authorities didn't expect an attack of this magnitude from the Gaza Strip, the world’s largest open-air prison. However, it must be noted that Israel-Palestine has witnessed an increasing violence against the Palestinian subjects, sponsored or perpetrated by the Israeli government (including illegal killings, settler violence, forced evictions, torture, disproportionate retaiiations and a large etcetera). I think it's important to remind everyone the brutality of the facts (this is apartheid!), because attacking civilians or submitting them to a regime of terror is always morally depraved and many people tend to turn a blind eye to the situation of Palestinians. On the other hand, regardless of whether Hamas supporters claim otherwise, there is not a single "Palestinian resistance". The civilians who desperately try to resist forced evictions in Massafer Yatta, in the hills south of Hebron, are resistants too. All my solidarity and support goes for the villagers and for many civilians that are largely ignored and whose suffering remains unnoticed. This is extensive to all civilians subject to violence and terror attacks, regardless of whether the perpetrator is the Israeli state, the IDF, the police, the settlers, Hamas, Hezbollah or any other group.

I don't know what is the long-term goal for Hamas. Right now, I would say Hamas has achieved to humiliate the Netanyahu government (the most right-wing and hardliner in Israel's history, unsurprising conclusion of thelast elections). The reprisal is going to be undoubtedly brutal and the Palestinian civilians of Gaza will suffer to a degree impossible to imagine from outside that hellhole. However, regardless of whether the government claims a military victory in the end, I think the psychological impact in Israel will be huge  --perhaps comparable to the 1968 Tet Offensive in Vietnam--.

In any case, there's no solution in sight. It seems the sufferings and the oppression of Palestinians will continue indefinitely, as well as the violence inherent to this situation and the indifference of the international community

On a side note, I don't understand the shortsightedness of people thinking the 'normalization' of relations between Israel and Arab regimes would deactivate "the conflict".

The following days will be terrible and painful in that corner of the world. Good luck to all the goodwilling people

[Aurelius2]

I doubt Hamas will survive after this. Hamas only has 30000 soldiers, and Israel has 160000 soldiers. Hamas will also not have very much international support because it is bad optics for a world leader to support a terrorist organization. This could potentially be an opportunity for Fatah to regain power in the West Bank.

This has not stopped countries throughout the Middle East from supporting this terrorist organization for decades. They weren't not a terrorist organization yesterday. Their aim has always been the annihilation of every last Jew, "from the river to the sea".

[jaichind]

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1710696953447936075?s=20

cut them from all supplies.

I think that is 80% of Gaza electrical consumption

[Dr. MB]

I doubt Hamas will survive after this. Hamas only has 30000 soldiers, and Israel has 160000 soldiers. Hamas will also not have very much international support because it is bad optics for a world leader to support a terrorist organization. This could potentially be an opportunity for Fatah to regain power in the West Bank.

Fatah is in power in the West Bank.

[WalterWhite]

I doubt Hamas will survive after this. Hamas only has 30000 soldiers, and Israel has 160000 soldiers. Hamas will also not have very much international support because it is bad optics for a world leader to support a terrorist organization. This could potentially be an opportunity for Fatah to regain power in the West Bank.

Fatah is in power in the West Bank.

I meant Gaza Strip.

[Saint Milei]

I don't support u.s. involvement in this.


I also want the war to end. Too many innocent lives are ruined due to this conflict.

[Saint Milei]

Austria is changing Ukraine flags to Israel.

This isn't about how big Putin's dick is, you parasite.

Why is this post allowed and when I call Marxists roaches for their gross posts in this thread I get reported for trolling? Do your job better mods

[Horus]

I don't support u.s. involvement in this.


I also want the war to end. Too many innocent lives are ruined due to this conflict.

I... agree with DeadPrez. Strange times.

[WalterWhite]

I don't support u.s. involvement in this.


I also want the war to end. Too many innocent lives are ruined due to this conflict.

I... agree with DeadPrez. Strange times.

Most people want the situation in Gaza to end.

[OSR stands with Israel]

I don't support u.s. involvement in this.


I also want the war to end. Too many innocent lives are ruined due to this conflict.

I... agree with DeadPrez. Strange times.

He supports a Ron Paul style foreign policy so no surprise

[Horus]

I don't support u.s. involvement in this.


I also want the war to end. Too many innocent lives are ruined due to this conflict.

I... agree with DeadPrez. Strange times.

Most people want the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to end.

But a lot of people support US involvement or at least US funding. Some of the takes in here are completely unhinged.

[jaichind]

Iron dome does not seem to be that effective in this conflict so far. It seems a swarm approach of throwing a lot of missles at once does make iron dome less effective.

[Saint Milei]

I don't support u.s. involvement in this.


I also want the war to end. Too many innocent lives are ruined due to this conflict.

I... agree with DeadPrez. Strange times.

Most people want the situation in Gaza to end.

They want it to end with Israel/Palestine burning the other to the ground. I don't.

[Logical]

A fundamental and very disturbing question remains unanswered. How did Hamas achieve surprise against a security state possessing the most advanced intelligence gathering methods anywhere in the world? This was a very well planned operation involving thousands of fighters. And yet the IDF was caught completely unprepared, and were slow to response in the first few critical hours of the war. Was this failure systematic or did the man on the very top ignore some warnings?