Israel-Gaza war

[MyLifeIsYours]

They've lost the war regardless of what happens to Hamas.

Israel can't possibly lose this war as long as it's still standing, because 10/7 laid the stakes clear. The goal is the bloody murder of every man, woman, and child in Israel, followed by that spurring global violence targeting diaspora Jewish communities. It shouldn't surprise anyone that any alternative is preferable to that.

. Israel has shown its, true colors to the world the origins of it's barbaric roots, how they have treated Palestinians for years following their purge by the incoming European Zionists. Hooray for the only "democracy" in the Middle East.

Yes, Israelis are ontologically evil, they can never redeem themselves from their original sin of killing Jesus the Nakba

The original sin of Israel. The same goes for my nation of America with how the European colonizers wiped the indignious people, or how Austraila banished the aboriginals to a marginal group today.

Not really the same.  The Jews were wiped from Judea by the Romans and other local tribes.  The remainder were exiled from the land, and the Romans renamed the land Palestine to ethnically cleanse the land.  The land has been invaded many times over the past 2000 years.  The people calling themselves Palestinians are Arabic. 

The original sin is Palestine.  A moniker synonymous with genocide. 

There were Jews who were living in Palestine before the Zionists conquered the land through the British Empire granting them the land, having colonized the land from 1896. What I mean is so many of the incoming people of the emerging Israel state were generally of European descent. The leaders of the Zionist movement were European, they had no trace to life in the Middle East. Theodore Herzel, the founder of Zionism, sought out nations as Uganda for potential location to build a Jewish state. The criticism of the Zionist movement is that it's a Western colonial project, backed by the interests of the West. So you could be a Jewish person that was born in Beverly Hills who has never step foot out of the States, your granted immediately citizenship by Israel. While a Palestinian Arab who's home predated the nation of Israel, is not granted the right of citizenship. Something is messed up with this system here and I think the ethno-nationalist roots are the root cause of the problem.

[rc18]

They've lost the war regardless of what happens to Hamas.

Israel can't possibly lose this war as long as it's still standing, because 10/7 laid the stakes clear. The goal is the bloody murder of every man, woman, and child in Israel, followed by that spurring global violence targeting diaspora Jewish communities. It shouldn't surprise anyone that any alternative is preferable to that.

Israel ignored any intelligence about the incoming attack on 10/7,

And? This is just victim blaming. Its just a rhetorical technique to minimise the Arab's own agency in the conflict. In just the same way it is Al-Qaeda that was ultimately responsible for 9/11, no matter how one might try and justify it.

You know the war was going to be a s**show when Netanyahu cut off all water and utility to Gazians, the vast majority of whom have no connection to Hamas, as well being children or women.

Israel was only ever supplying something like 10% of Gaza's water needs in the first place. Hamas hasn't ever paid for the water from aid money like they were supposed to, instead spending your aid money on killing Israelis (which you are responsible for). Usually when someone doesn't pay their bills and then proceeds to rape, kidnapp and murder your children you're inclined to turn off the supply...

If you truly believe all the sh**t you say, how can you explain that Israel was providing Gaza its water for free before October 7th?

we see a genocide that has killed over 32,000 civilians.

Really? So the IDF hasn't killed any members of Hamas, PIJ etc?

and a famine crisis that is going to hit the region,

There is no famine crisis, as you'd know if you could watch the Gazan's own media rather than Pallywood fakes directed by Hamas and their associates.

due to the inhumane actions by western nations by signing legislation to allow cutting off funding for UNRWA.,

Every penny of aid to UNWRA makes you complicit in the killing of Israelis.

Israel has shown its, true colors to the world the origins of it's barbaric roots, how they have treated Palestinians for years following their purge by the incoming European Zionists. Hooray for the only "democracy" in the Middle East.

There was no 'purge', as atested by the fact that plenty of Arabs stayed and are now Israeli citizens. Those who left the land in the hopes the Arab armies would purge the Jews however clearly aren't as connected to the land as those who stayed. Which is not surprising, many of them were migrant workers from Egypt, Syria and elsewhere in the middle east who (often illegally) came to work in the businesses set up by the evil jews zionists. There is a reason pan-Arabism (not a confected 'Palestinian' nationalism) was the original political aim of the Arabs, and why even when Egypt and Jordan controlled Gaza and the West Bank that no independent state was declared.

The region was long unpopulated, ever since the Romans massacred or enslaved most of the native population and then implemented their retarded agricultural practices that turned the area into a virtual desert. At the time of the arrival of zionist agriculturalists with funding from Jewish agencies, the total population of the whole region was about the same as the modern city of Nottingham, England. There were very few people (and most of those not indigenous) and virtually no industry except subsistence farming. This is precisely why the Ottomans were initially supportive of Jewish migration efforts. Had zionists not migrated there it would still be an unpopulated desert.

[Horus]

They've lost the war regardless of what happens to Hamas.

Israel can't possibly lose this war as long as it's still standing, because 10/7 laid the stakes clear. The goal is the bloody murder of every man, woman, and child in Israel, followed by that spurring global violence targeting diaspora Jewish communities. It shouldn't surprise anyone that any alternative is preferable to that.

. Israel has shown its, true colors to the world the origins of it's barbaric roots, how they have treated Palestinians for years following their purge by the incoming European Zionists. Hooray for the only "democracy" in the Middle East.

Yes, Israelis are ontologically evil, they can never redeem themselves from their original sin of killing Jesus the Nakba

The original sin of Israel. The same goes for my nation of America with how the European colonizers wiped the indignious people, or how Austraila banished the aboriginals to a marginal group today.

Not really the same.  The Jews were wiped from Judea by the Romans and other local tribes.  The remainder were exiled from the land, and the Romans renamed the land Palestine to ethnically cleanse the land.  The land has been invaded many times over the past 2000 years.  The people calling themselves Palestinians are Arabic.  

The original sin is Palestine.  A moniker synonymous with genocide.  

My guy, you support Putin. You can't lecture anyone on anything when you cheerlead against Ukraine.

[Horus]

They've lost the war regardless of what happens to Hamas.

Israel can't possibly lose this war as long as it's still standing, because 10/7 laid the stakes clear. The goal is the bloody murder of every man, woman, and child in Israel, followed by that spurring global violence targeting diaspora Jewish communities. It shouldn't surprise anyone that any alternative is preferable to that.

. Israel has shown its, true colors to the world the origins of it's barbaric roots, how they have treated Palestinians for years following their purge by the incoming European Zionists. Hooray for the only "democracy" in the Middle East.

Yes, Israelis are ontologically evil, they can never redeem themselves from their original sin of killing Jesus the Nakba

The original sin of Israel. The same goes for my nation of America with how the European colonizers wiped the indignious people, or how Austraila banished the aboriginals to a marginal group today.

Once again, the Israelis are indigenous people of the Middle East and they will never be displaced again.

Once again, while they aren't the majority in Israel, Ashkenazi Jews are not indigenous to the middle east. My grandma made borscht and chicken paprikash, not falafel.

[rc18]

They've lost the war regardless of what happens to Hamas.

Israel can't possibly lose this war as long as it's still standing, because 10/7 laid the stakes clear. The goal is the bloody murder of every man, woman, and child in Israel, followed by that spurring global violence targeting diaspora Jewish communities. It shouldn't surprise anyone that any alternative is preferable to that.

. Israel has shown its, true colors to the world the origins of it's barbaric roots, how they have treated Palestinians for years following their purge by the incoming European Zionists. Hooray for the only "democracy" in the Middle East.

Yes, Israelis are ontologically evil, they can never redeem themselves from their original sin of killing Jesus the Nakba

The original sin of Israel. The same goes for my nation of America with how the European colonizers wiped the indignious people, or how Austraila banished the aboriginals to a marginal group today.

Not really the same.  The Jews were wiped from Judea by the Romans and other local tribes.  The remainder were exiled from the land, and the Romans renamed the land Palestine to ethnically cleanse the land.  The land has been invaded many times over the past 2000 years.  The people calling themselves Palestinians are Arabic.  

The original sin is Palestine.  A moniker synonymous with genocide.  

My guy, you support Putin. You can't lecture anyone on anything when you cheerlead against Ukraine.

Have you not noticed how all the Putin-shilling media, your Jackson Hinkles, The Grey Zone etc etc who were cheerleading Russia's invasion of Ukraine are all now spewing virulent pro-Palestinian propaganda?

You support Putin too, you just don't understand the wider geopolitics.

[Horus]

They've lost the war regardless of what happens to Hamas.

Israel can't possibly lose this war as long as it's still standing, because 10/7 laid the stakes clear. The goal is the bloody murder of every man, woman, and child in Israel, followed by that spurring global violence targeting diaspora Jewish communities. It shouldn't surprise anyone that any alternative is preferable to that.

. Israel has shown its, true colors to the world the origins of it's barbaric roots, how they have treated Palestinians for years following their purge by the incoming European Zionists. Hooray for the only "democracy" in the Middle East.

Yes, Israelis are ontologically evil, they can never redeem themselves from their original sin of killing Jesus the Nakba

The original sin of Israel. The same goes for my nation of America with how the European colonizers wiped the indignious people, or how Austraila banished the aboriginals to a marginal group today.

Not really the same.  The Jews were wiped from Judea by the Romans and other local tribes.  The remainder were exiled from the land, and the Romans renamed the land Palestine to ethnically cleanse the land.  The land has been invaded many times over the past 2000 years.  The people calling themselves Palestinians are Arabic.  

The original sin is Palestine.  A moniker synonymous with genocide.  

My guy, you support Putin. You can't lecture anyone on anything when you cheerlead against Ukraine.

Have you not noticed how all the Putin-shilling media, your Jackson Hinkles, The Grey Zone etc etc who were cheeleading Russias invasion of Ukraine are all now spewing virulent pro-Palestinian propaganda?

You support Putin too, you just don't understand the wider geopolitics.

I have not listened to those weirdos a day in my life.

Netanyahu has been trying to cozy up to Russia for years now. You're just a campist. Right is right and wrong is wrong, and on the whole, Russia and Israel are in the wrong more than their adversaries. Israel-Palestine is more nuanced, but anyone with half a moral compass should come to the same conclusion.

[kwabbit]

They've lost the war regardless of what happens to Hamas.

Israel can't possibly lose this war as long as it's still standing, because 10/7 laid the stakes clear. The goal is the bloody murder of every man, woman, and child in Israel, followed by that spurring global violence targeting diaspora Jewish communities. It shouldn't surprise anyone that any alternative is preferable to that.

. Israel has shown its, true colors to the world the origins of it's barbaric roots, how they have treated Palestinians for years following their purge by the incoming European Zionists. Hooray for the only "democracy" in the Middle East.

Yes, Israelis are ontologically evil, they can never redeem themselves from their original sin of killing Jesus the Nakba

The original sin of Israel. The same goes for my nation of America with how the European colonizers wiped the indignious people, or how Austraila banished the aboriginals to a marginal group today.

Once again, the Israelis are indigenous people of the Middle East and they will never be displaced again.

Based off DNA, Jews don't have some sort of unique claim to the southern Levant.

Ashkenazi Jews are not the closest relatives to ancient Southern Levantines, but they are much closer to them than their European country of origin. From what I've read, Ashkenazi Jews are about 80% ancient Jews and 20% European. So they are indigenous to the Southern Levant, but they are not the only people indigenous to the region. The alternative to Jews being indigenous to Israel is that they are indigenous to Poland or Brooklyn, which are both definitely not the case.

[MyLifeIsYours]

Tyrant afraid of critical journalism that investigates the war crimes being committed by his state, bans news that dares to show his wrongdoings. This is what authoritarian leaders do, they seek of any news media that is challenging the status quo. Good job for Al Jazeera for providing some of the best coverage on the genocide in Gaza.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Monday vowed to shut down Al Jazeera’s operations in Israel, calling it a “terror channel” that spreads incitement, after parliament passed a law clearing the way for the closure.

Netanyahu’s pledge escalated Israel’s long-running feud against Al Jazeera. It also threatened to heighten tensions with Qatar, which owns the channel, at a time when the Doha government is playing a key role in mediation efforts to halt the war in Gaza.

The broadcaster condemned Netanyahu’s incitement claim as a “dangerous ludicrous lie.” Al Jazeera said late Monday that it holds Netanyahu responsible for the safety of its staff and offices, that it would continue what it described as its bold and professional coverage, and that it “reserves the right to pursue every legal step.”

Israel has long had a rocky relationship with Al Jazeera, accusing it of bias against Israel. Relations took a major downturn nearly two years ago when Al Jazeera correspondent Shireen Abu Akleh was killed during an Israeli military raid in the occupied West Bank.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-al-jazeera-qatar-hamas-war-gaza-49c2aa4afb3c3b0ee6ac314b63d80716

[Horus]

They've lost the war regardless of what happens to Hamas.

Israel can't possibly lose this war as long as it's still standing, because 10/7 laid the stakes clear. The goal is the bloody murder of every man, woman, and child in Israel, followed by that spurring global violence targeting diaspora Jewish communities. It shouldn't surprise anyone that any alternative is preferable to that.

. Israel has shown its, true colors to the world the origins of it's barbaric roots, how they have treated Palestinians for years following their purge by the incoming European Zionists. Hooray for the only "democracy" in the Middle East.

Yes, Israelis are ontologically evil, they can never redeem themselves from their original sin of killing Jesus the Nakba

The original sin of Israel. The same goes for my nation of America with how the European colonizers wiped the indignious people, or how Austraila banished the aboriginals to a marginal group today.

Once again, the Israelis are indigenous people of the Middle East and they will never be displaced again.

Based off DNA, Jews don't have some sort of unique claim to the southern Levant.

Ashkenazi Jews are not the closest relatives to ancient Southern Levantines, but they are much closer to them than their European country of origin. From what I've read, Ashkenazi Jews are about 80% ancient Jews and 20% European. So they are indigenous to the Southern Levant, but they are not the only people indigenous to the region. The alternative to Jews being indigenous to Israel is that they are indigenous to Poland or Brooklyn, which are both definitely not the case.

My Jewish family has lived in this country for five generations. I am more indigenous to Ohio than I am to the Levant.

[rc18]

They've lost the war regardless of what happens to Hamas.

Israel can't possibly lose this war as long as it's still standing, because 10/7 laid the stakes clear. The goal is the bloody murder of every man, woman, and child in Israel, followed by that spurring global violence targeting diaspora Jewish communities. It shouldn't surprise anyone that any alternative is preferable to that.

. Israel has shown its, true colors to the world the origins of it's barbaric roots, how they have treated Palestinians for years following their purge by the incoming European Zionists. Hooray for the only "democracy" in the Middle East.

Yes, Israelis are ontologically evil, they can never redeem themselves from their original sin of killing Jesus the Nakba

The original sin of Israel. The same goes for my nation of America with how the European colonizers wiped the indignious people, or how Austraila banished the aboriginals to a marginal group today.

Given that it is very unlikely you're a pure-blood Native American, I assume you're going to take your own advice and leave the United States to the natives? Or is that something you only demand of others from the safety of your keyboard?


If your line of reasoning is starting to sound a tad racist, it's because it is...

But let's play the game.

The Arabs (the clue is in the name) aren't indigenous to the Levant or the rest of the Fertile Crescent, they are settlers and they have been brutally wiping out the natives for centuries. The only reason there were Jews in Europe is because of enslavement by the Romans after the Jewish Wars. Dreyfus, The Russian Pogroms, The Holocaust, all proved that Jews are not and will never be considered European. Hell, Jews were banned in this country until the 1650s, but are apparently now "Whiter than white" Europeans according to poorly informed skull-measurers on the Internet.

Ironically Zionism is probably the best example of a 'decolonisation movement' in history, the very thing you supposedly support. So if you don't like the results, it's probably best not to support such ideologies.

The funny thing is, I can't imagine you telling any other ethnic minority where they belong...

[kwabbit]

They've lost the war regardless of what happens to Hamas.

Israel can't possibly lose this war as long as it's still standing, because 10/7 laid the stakes clear. The goal is the bloody murder of every man, woman, and child in Israel, followed by that spurring global violence targeting diaspora Jewish communities. It shouldn't surprise anyone that any alternative is preferable to that.

. Israel has shown its, true colors to the world the origins of it's barbaric roots, how they have treated Palestinians for years following their purge by the incoming European Zionists. Hooray for the only "democracy" in the Middle East.

Yes, Israelis are ontologically evil, they can never redeem themselves from their original sin of killing Jesus the Nakba

The original sin of Israel. The same goes for my nation of America with how the European colonizers wiped the indignious people, or how Austraila banished the aboriginals to a marginal group today.

Once again, the Israelis are indigenous people of the Middle East and they will never be displaced again.

Based off DNA, Jews don't have some sort of unique claim to the southern Levant.

Ashkenazi Jews are not the closest relatives to ancient Southern Levantines, but they are much closer to them than their European country of origin. From what I've read, Ashkenazi Jews are about 80% ancient Jews and 20% European. So they are indigenous to the Southern Levant, but they are not the only people indigenous to the region. The alternative to Jews being indigenous to Israel is that they are indigenous to Poland or Brooklyn, which are both definitely not the case.

My Jewish family has lived in this country for five generations. I am more indigenous to Ohio than I am to the Levant.

And you are lucky that your family immigrated to the United States. The Jews that remained in Central and Eastern Europe were subjected to genocide. If every single one of your family members in Ohio were killed for being Jewish, I think you might have a different attitude. That you feel safe and indigenous to Ohio is a blessing.

[Horus]

They've lost the war regardless of what happens to Hamas.

Israel can't possibly lose this war as long as it's still standing, because 10/7 laid the stakes clear. The goal is the bloody murder of every man, woman, and child in Israel, followed by that spurring global violence targeting diaspora Jewish communities. It shouldn't surprise anyone that any alternative is preferable to that.

. Israel has shown its, true colors to the world the origins of it's barbaric roots, how they have treated Palestinians for years following their purge by the incoming European Zionists. Hooray for the only "democracy" in the Middle East.

Yes, Israelis are ontologically evil, they can never redeem themselves from their original sin of killing Jesus the Nakba

The original sin of Israel. The same goes for my nation of America with how the European colonizers wiped the indignious people, or how Austraila banished the aboriginals to a marginal group today.

Once again, the Israelis are indigenous people of the Middle East and they will never be displaced again.

Based off DNA, Jews don't have some sort of unique claim to the southern Levant.

Ashkenazi Jews are not the closest relatives to ancient Southern Levantines, but they are much closer to them than their European country of origin. From what I've read, Ashkenazi Jews are about 80% ancient Jews and 20% European. So they are indigenous to the Southern Levant, but they are not the only people indigenous to the region. The alternative to Jews being indigenous to Israel is that they are indigenous to Poland or Brooklyn, which are both definitely not the case.

My Jewish family has lived in this country for five generations. I am more indigenous to Ohio than I am to the Levant.

And you are lucky that your family immigrated to the United States. The Jews that remained in Central and Eastern Europe were subjected to genocide. If every single one of your family members in Ohio were killed for being Jewish, I think you might have a different attitude. That you feel safe and indigenous to Ohio is a blessing.

It is a blessing, I agree. There is nowhere safer for Jewish people than the United States and I'm glad I live here.

[GeneralMacArthur]

To try and get things back on track from the ten-thousandth rehashing of the Arab claims that Jews aren't indigenous to Judea...

There are four things I'd like to know more about, I've been so busy the last week that I've barely been following the news at all and would appreciate someone catching me up on these topics:

1) Israel's attack on the World Central Kitchen workers -- this is a disgraceful act and one for which Israel should suffer severe punishment, up to and including American intervention or withdrawal of aid, if they can't come up with a good explanation fast.  Has there been any progress whatsoever on either an investigation into how this happened or some Israeli explanation beyond "it was an accident"?  I do not believe that it was an accident.  If the IDF intentionally attacked aid workers as a matter of national policy then they've gone too far and need to be cut off.

2) The consolidation of Northern Gaza -- how did Hamas get back into Shifa hospital?  How is Hamas able to come up here and steal food and aid with impunity?  Why are there any Hamas fighters left in the area at all?  I thought Israel had this region under control.  How hard can it possibly be to secure the border between north and south, Gaza is less than three miles wide.  Are there still tunnels Israel doesn't know about?  I seriously was under the impression that all that was left to do outside of Rafah was just a cleanup operation.

3) Speaking of Rafah, has Bibi decided yet when he's going to make the push?  Last I heard on this, his crew was going to meet with Joe Biden to hear about Biden's top secret plan for how to defeat Hamas in Rafah without any civilian casualties.  I personally don't think that's possible and that this is just a waste of time to let Biden save face when Hamas's last stand is inevitably a bloody mess and Biden can say "that stubborn Bibi, he just didn't listen to my secret plan that would have avoided all this."  But either way, Bibi needs to get on with it instead of sitting on his hands forever.  I've also heard that he may be waiting until the end of Ramadan for some reason?  He needs to get on with it because Biden's patience is obviously wearing thin and he's not going to go into the DNC Convention in August still having to defend Bibi's war.

4) Going back to Biden, how is the construction of the aid pier going?  It's been almost a month since it was announced and I can't find any news about recent progress.  Have there been any other efforts to get more aid into Gaza, in particular northern Gaza?

[Cashew]

To try and get things back on track from the ten-thousandth rehashing of the Arab claims that Jews aren't indigenous to Judea...

There are four things I'd like to know more about, I've been so busy the last week that I've barely been following the news at all and would appreciate someone catching me up on these topics:

1) Israel's attack on the World Central Kitchen workers -- this is a disgraceful act and one for which Israel should suffer severe punishment, up to and including American intervention or withdrawal of aid, if they can't come up with a good explanation fast.  Has there been any progress whatsoever on either an investigation into how this happened or some Israeli explanation beyond "it was an accident"?  I do not believe that it was an accident.  If the IDF intentionally attacked aid workers as a matter of national policy then they've gone too far and need to be cut off.

Tbf I doubt there is any written order to killing aid workers from the higher ups, and it would be pretty foolish of them to leave a paper trail if they did. That said intentionally killing aid workers as policy, and turning a blind eye to the more bloodthirsty members of the IDF doing so is a distinction without a difference.

[GeneralMacArthur]

To try and get things back on track from the ten-thousandth rehashing of the Arab claims that Jews aren't indigenous to Judea...

There are four things I'd like to know more about, I've been so busy the last week that I've barely been following the news at all and would appreciate someone catching me up on these topics:

1) Israel's attack on the World Central Kitchen workers -- this is a disgraceful act and one for which Israel should suffer severe punishment, up to and including American intervention or withdrawal of aid, if they can't come up with a good explanation fast.  Has there been any progress whatsoever on either an investigation into how this happened or some Israeli explanation beyond "it was an accident"?  I do not believe that it was an accident.  If the IDF intentionally attacked aid workers as a matter of national policy then they've gone too far and need to be cut off.

Tbf I doubt there is any written order to killing aid workers from the higher ups, and it would be pretty foolish of them to leave a paper trail if they did. That said intentionally killing aid workers as policy, and turning a blind eye to the more bloodthirsty members of the IDF doing so is a distinction without a difference.

How high up the chain of command was this decision made?  There's a huge difference between one deranged IDF pilot deciding to airstrike a convoy, versus an insubordinate commanding officer ordering him to do it, versus some colonel or brigadier general ordering it, versus it being official IDF policy coming direct from Yaron Finkelman or Yoav Gallant or Netanyahu himself.

Like if it's just one insubordinate officer, throw the book at him and call it a day.  If this was Yoav Gallant's decision, or Bibi's, then America needs to cut off Israel until the entire Netanyahu administration is replaced.

[MyLifeIsYours]

They've lost the war regardless of what happens to Hamas.

Israel can't possibly lose this war as long as it's still standing, because 10/7 laid the stakes clear. The goal is the bloody murder of every man, woman, and child in Israel, followed by that spurring global violence targeting diaspora Jewish communities. It shouldn't surprise anyone that any alternative is preferable to that.

. Israel has shown its, true colors to the world the origins of it's barbaric roots, how they have treated Palestinians for years following their purge by the incoming European Zionists. Hooray for the only "democracy" in the Middle East.

Yes, Israelis are ontologically evil, they can never redeem themselves from their original sin of killing Jesus the Nakba

The original sin of Israel. The same goes for my nation of America with how the European colonizers wiped the indignious people, or how Austraila banished the aboriginals to a marginal group today.

Given that it is very unlikely you're a pure-blood Native American, I assume you're going to take your own advice and leave the United States to the natives? Or is that something you only demand of others from the safety of your keyboard?


If your line of reasoning is starting to sound a tad racist, it's because it is...

But let's play the game.

The Arabs (the clue is in the name) aren't indigenous to the Levant or the rest of the Fertile Crescent, they are settlers and they have been brutally wiping out the natives for centuries. The only reason there were Jews in Europe is because of enslavement by the Romans after the Jewish Wars. Dreyfus, The Russian Pogroms, The Holocaust, all proved that Jews are not and will never be considered European. Hell, Jews were banned in this country until 1656, but are apparently now "Whiter than white" Europeans according to poorly informed skull-measurers on the Internet.

The irony is Zionism is the best example of a decolonisation movement in history, the very thing you supposedly support. So if you don't like the results, probably best not to support such ideologies.

The funny thing is, I can't imagine you telling any other ethnic minority where they belong...

Again, I said Jews were living in Palestine long before the Zionists came and occupied the land. There were obviously Jews who lived in the region, dating back to the foundation of Abrahamic religion. The movement of Zionism was always a group of Ashkenazi Jews who felt it was time to back up and find a homeland just for their people as a way to fight the antisemitism of the time. The spot of Palestine just happens to be the place where they agreed to settle in, as outlined by the Belfour Declaration. Uganda was one nation discussed between the British and Theodore Herzel in 1903 as the potential spot for a Jewish ethno-state. The immigration pouring in Mandated Palestine was not the issue so much as displacing the Palestinians who have been living in the area for centuries. The leaders of Israel never figured a way to incorporate them into their fledging society, just as European settlers never figured out how to live with the Natives when they arrived on what is now American territory.

The movement of Zionism could not be described as decolonization when they sided with Western nations that have been the biggest colonizers in the world--America, Great Britian. If they wanted a better alliance to further the case you are making they should have been siding with all the third world nations near the region that raised against the Imperialism of the West.

[Cashew]

To try and get things back on track from the ten-thousandth rehashing of the Arab claims that Jews aren't indigenous to Judea...

There are four things I'd like to know more about, I've been so busy the last week that I've barely been following the news at all and would appreciate someone catching me up on these topics:

1) Israel's attack on the World Central Kitchen workers -- this is a disgraceful act and one for which Israel should suffer severe punishment, up to and including American intervention or withdrawal of aid, if they can't come up with a good explanation fast.  Has there been any progress whatsoever on either an investigation into how this happened or some Israeli explanation beyond "it was an accident"?  I do not believe that it was an accident.  If the IDF intentionally attacked aid workers as a matter of national policy then they've gone too far and need to be cut off.

Tbf I doubt there is any written order to killing aid workers from the higher ups, and it would be pretty foolish of them to leave a paper trail if they did. That said intentionally killing aid workers as policy, and turning a blind eye to the more bloodthirsty members of the IDF doing so is a distinction without a difference.

How high up the chain of command was this decision made?  There's a huge difference between one deranged IDF pilot deciding to airstrike a convoy, versus an insubordinate commanding officer ordering him to do it, versus some colonel or brigadier general ordering it, versus it being official IDF policy coming direct from Yaron Finkelman or Yoav Gallant or Netanyahu himself.

Like if it's just one insubordinate officer, throw the book at him and call it a day.  If this was Yoav Gallant's decision, or Bibi's, then America needs to cut off Israel until the entire Netanyahu administration is replaced.

That is based on the premise that "insubordination" will not consistently be given a slap on the wrist.

[Devils30]

They've lost the war regardless of what happens to Hamas.

Israel can't possibly lose this war as long as it's still standing, because 10/7 laid the stakes clear. The goal is the bloody murder of every man, woman, and child in Israel, followed by that spurring global violence targeting diaspora Jewish communities. It shouldn't surprise anyone that any alternative is preferable to that.

. Israel has shown its, true colors to the world the origins of it's barbaric roots, how they have treated Palestinians for years following their purge by the incoming European Zionists. Hooray for the only "democracy" in the Middle East.

Yes, Israelis are ontologically evil, they can never redeem themselves from their original sin of killing Jesus the Nakba

The original sin of Israel. The same goes for my nation of America with how the European colonizers wiped the indignious people, or how Austraila banished the aboriginals to a marginal group today.

Given that it is very unlikely you're a pure-blood Native American, I assume you're going to take your own advice and leave the United States to the natives? Or is that something you only demand of others from the safety of your keyboard?


If your line of reasoning is starting to sound a tad racist, it's because it is...

But let's play the game.

The Arabs (the clue is in the name) aren't indigenous to the Levant or the rest of the Fertile Crescent, they are settlers and they have been brutally wiping out the natives for centuries. The only reason there were Jews in Europe is because of enslavement by the Romans after the Jewish Wars. Dreyfus, The Russian Pogroms, The Holocaust, all proved that Jews are not and will never be considered European. Hell, Jews were banned in this country until 1656, but are apparently now "Whiter than white" Europeans according to poorly informed skull-measurers on the Internet.

The irony is Zionism is the best example of a decolonisation movement in history, the very thing you supposedly support. So if you don't like the results, probably best not to support such ideologies.

The funny thing is, I can't imagine you telling any other ethnic minority where they belong...

Again, I said Jews were living in Palestine long before the Zionists came and occupied the land. There were obviously Jews who lived in the region, dating back to the foundation of Abrahamic religion. The movement of Zionism was always a group of Ashkenazi Jews who felt it was time to back up and find a homeland just for their people as a way to fight the antisemitism of the time. The spot of Palestine just happens to be the place where they agreed to settle in, as outlined by the Belfour Declaration. Uganda was one nation discussed between the British and Theodore Herzel in 1903 as the potential spot for a Jewish ethno-state. The immigration pouring in Mandated Palestine was not the issue so much as displacing the Palestinians who have been living in the area for centuries. The leaders of Israel never figured a way to incorporate them into their fledging society, just as European settlers never figured out how to live with the Natives when they arrived on what is now American territory.

The movement of Zionism could not be described as decolonization when they sided with Western nations that have been the biggest colonizers in the world--America, Great Britian. If they wanted a better alliance to further the case you are making they should have been siding with all the third world nations near the region that raised against the Imperialism of the West.

So you prefer the Soviet/Cuban/North Korean/Iran system of government over the US/Britain/Israel? Please answer.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

They've lost the war regardless of what happens to Hamas.

Israel can't possibly lose this war as long as it's still standing, because 10/7 laid the stakes clear. The goal is the bloody murder of every man, woman, and child in Israel, followed by that spurring global violence targeting diaspora Jewish communities. It shouldn't surprise anyone that any alternative is preferable to that.

. Israel has shown its, true colors to the world the origins of it's barbaric roots, how they have treated Palestinians for years following their purge by the incoming European Zionists. Hooray for the only "democracy" in the Middle East.

Yes, Israelis are ontologically evil, they can never redeem themselves from their original sin of killing Jesus the Nakba

The original sin of Israel. The same goes for my nation of America with how the European colonizers wiped the indignious people, or how Austraila banished the aboriginals to a marginal group today.

Once again, the Israelis are indigenous people of the Middle East and they will never be displaced again.

Once again, while they aren't the majority in Israel, Ashkenazi Jews are not indigenous to the middle east. My grandma made borscht and chicken paprikash, not falafel.

There are plenty of people with native DNA in the US who look white-ish and eat fried chicken or clambakes rather than frybread. It's called dilution and forced assimilation due to violent exile and the principle is no different here.

[Horus]

They've lost the war regardless of what happens to Hamas.

Israel can't possibly lose this war as long as it's still standing, because 10/7 laid the stakes clear. The goal is the bloody murder of every man, woman, and child in Israel, followed by that spurring global violence targeting diaspora Jewish communities. It shouldn't surprise anyone that any alternative is preferable to that.

. Israel has shown its, true colors to the world the origins of it's barbaric roots, how they have treated Palestinians for years following their purge by the incoming European Zionists. Hooray for the only "democracy" in the Middle East.

Yes, Israelis are ontologically evil, they can never redeem themselves from their original sin of killing Jesus the Nakba

The original sin of Israel. The same goes for my nation of America with how the European colonizers wiped the indignious people, or how Austraila banished the aboriginals to a marginal group today.

Once again, the Israelis are indigenous people of the Middle East and they will never be displaced again.

Once again, while they aren't the majority in Israel, Ashkenazi Jews are not indigenous to the middle east. My grandma made borscht and chicken paprikash, not falafel.

There are plenty of people with native DNA in the US who look white-ish and eat fried chicken or clambakes rather than frybread. It's called dilution and forced assimilation due to violent exile and the principle is no different here.

There is nothing diluted about Ashkenazi Jewish cuisine or culture. It is an integral part of Europe and America. Cultures are always changing and learning from each other, and there are plenty of parts of Jewish culture that do not link back to the Levant. The process isn't always pretty but it is not "dilution."

[Comrade Funk]

Joe Biden is sacrificing his campaign for Israel

[OSR stands with Israel]

Joe Biden is sacrificing his campaign for Israel

If Joe Biden backed Palestine , he’d absolutely lose the election. Single issue Palestinian voters are far less numerous than people think

[Horus]

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1775591029716214122?t=Wtup4ZVL48zUllaZ...

[rc18]

Again, I said Jews were living in Palestine long before the Zionists came and occupied the land. There were obviously Jews who lived in the region, dating back to the foundation of Abrahamic religion. The movement of Zionism was always a group of Ashkenazi Jews who felt it was time to back up and find a homeland just for their people as a way to fight the antisemitism of the time. The spot of Palestine just happens to be the place where they agreed to settle in, as outlined by the Belfour Declaration. Uganda was one nation discussed between the British and Theodore Herzel in 1903 as the potential spot for a Jewish ethno-state. The immigration pouring in Mandated Palestine was not the issue so much as displacing the Palestinians who have been living in the area for centuries. The leaders of Israel never figured a way to incorporate them into their fledging society, just as European settlers never figured out how to live with the Natives when they arrived on what is now American territory.

"Just for their people" and "ethnostate"? Zionism was never about an exclusive state just for Jews, which is why Israel today has many minorities, more than your typical middle eastern state. Since you appear to have no problem with many other states that have an ethnic majority of one kind or another I can only assume your difficulty with this point is a misunderstanding.


Theodore Herzl gets talked about a lot in Western liberal societies when zionism is discussed because he was a heavily assimilated Western liberal Jew, so he is familiar. He was quite an unlikely Zionist, because people like him would typically try and assimilate out of the Jewish community altogether, he just understood the implications of Dreyfus. The truth is Herzl's influence within the Zionist movement was very shortlived, precisely because his madcap ideas didn't gain much traction amongst the wider, more traditional, Jewish community.  For example, If the Zionists had listened to Herzl, Israelis would be speaking German...

*awkward*

Herzl conceived of a "State of Jews", I.e a totally secular society shorn of any distinct Jewish identity. The Uganda plan is emblematic of his views, which was largely indifferent to the cultural connection to the Jewish homeland. His ideas decisively lost to the predominantly socialist and communist cultural zionists, dubbed "The Jewish State".

So no, Uganda was never a serious goal of the Jewish community, just one guy.


Immigration into the Mandate of Palestine was ENTIRELY the issue. As I said, the population of the whole mandate was roughly equal to the size of a small city today. It was as close as you're going to get to empty land. And the land was bought from locals by the immigrants. (BTW as an aside, a lot of the land was owned by the Ottoman State, not individuals) The rapid rise in the Arab population, alongside the Jewish one, as hundreds of thousands of Arab immigrants moved to find work in the new economy belies the notion of a displacement, until the anti-Jewish pogroms got more severe at least.

Again, I find it hard to believe these things would be said of any other ethnic group fleeing persecution. Why are Jews the only refugees you seem to have a problem with? Do you side with people in the US who complain about immigrants displacing them?

The movement of Zionism could not be described as decolonization when they sided with Western nations that have been the biggest colonizers in the world--America, Great Britian. If they wanted a better alliance to further the case you are making they should have been siding with all the third world nations near the region that raised against the Imperialism of the West.

Sided with the Western nations? The Zionists originally tried to get in the Ottomans good books, which controlled much of said third world region at the time. When the Turks went all xenophobic during the dying days of the Ottoman Empire the Zionists sought help from the British, in then British-controlled Egypt, which was only begrudgingly supplied. Although modern pro-Arab activists make out that Britain was always on the side of the Jews because of Balfour, the reality was very different. After Balfour the situation quickly unraveled. The British became hostile to Jewish immigration after the Arabs engaged in numerous pogroms, eventually banning it, even in the wake of the Holocaust. Britain was increasingly seen as pro-Arab nationalist and anti-Jewish and as a result Jewish paramilitaries rose up against the British, eventually convincing the British to leave altogether. Britain was the colonial oppressor for many Israelis. You are aware that the Jewish authorities during Israel's independence war were under a British-led UN arms embargo, despite the fact the Arab states had already inherited British weapons? That the only country to supply the zionists with significant weapons was Czechoslovakia? You know Stalin was originally a fan of Israel, because zionists were overwhelmingly socialists or communists? You are aware that the US was initially on the pro-Arab nationalist side (hello, Suez) until the Americans realised they screwed up and the Soviets ate their lunch? You are aware that prior to the Islamic revolution Iran and Israel were friendly? The US and Israel being relatively close is a modern thing, particularly developing since in the 1970s, long after Israel was established.

The "zionists" have always been on the side that least wanted them dead. That's it. If it weren't for the fact said "third world nations in the region" wanted them dead they would be "on their side".

I swear most of the people with views like yours only seem to have heard of the Balfour Declaration and are unaware of the next 30 years of history, and more.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Iran to fire directly at Israel from it's own territory?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-bolsters-air-defenses-calls-up-troops-as-israel-braces-for-iranian-retaliation/

"Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has vowed revenge for the Monday strike, and posters parroting his words have gone up around Tehran, in a sign of public pressure for an Iranian response."

Iran have been the elephant in the room the whole time.