Israel-Gaza war

[NOVA Green]

Some unidentified bodies turned out to be the bodies of Hamas fighters instead of Israelis.
https://twitter.com/evanhill/status/1723110451024629987?t=EMb4o1HsWbvIqLce0dFXFw...

This is a positive development, especially the significantly decreased Israeli Civilian death toll from initial estimates.

I do wonder to what extent this overlaps with the 1.5k Hamas dead numbers initially reported by Israeli sources, or it it adds to numbers?

As I had mentioned way upthread it appears that the main elite Hamas Brigade involved was virtually destroyed during the initial attack, so curious if this means the Hamas casualty numbers from the body count located within Southern Israel is now estimated to be significantly higher?

It is also interesting that this number also dramatically increases the total number of Israeli military casualties from initial reports by roughly (100).

This in and of itself is an interesting admission, considering that this might indicate that the Israeli Government significantly understated IDF KIA numbers for whatever reason, considering they must have had an idea of how many soldiers were missing after Hamas assaults on roughly (12) different IDF bases.

Arguably, Hamas might have been better off capturing a much larger number of IDF soldiers versus in many cases effectively killing soldiers in their underwear, instead of large mass-murder of Israeli Citizens and Foreign Nationals from Music Festivals to the Kibbutznik's, as well as mass Civilian Hostage taking.

Regardless, they are living in the bed which they have made, and ultimately history will likely view them as having done a grave disserve to the Palestinian National Liberation Movement through their actions using a classic "Leninist" or "Propaganda of the Deed" style actions.

[NOVA Green]

Meanwhile on the Lebanese-Israeli front tensions continue to run high...

The Israeli military ratcheted up its airstrikes inside Lebanon on Friday evening, targeting Hezbollah weapons depots and intelligence infrastructure after a series of drone and missile attacks by the powerful Lebanese militant group left four Israeli soldiers severely injured.

Earlier in the day, a hospital in southern Lebanon was also hit by shelling, prompting condemnation from U.N. agencies and Lebanese officials.

On Friday, the U.N.’s deputy special coordinator in Lebanon, Imran Riza, called for restraint after what he described as “alarming attacks” on civilians in the country’s south. His statement followed an Israeli drone strike on Sunday that killed a woman and three girls in southern Lebanon, prompting Hezbollah to fire a barrage of Grad rockets at the northern Israeli city of Kiryat Shmona, killing one person.

Samir Ayoub, a journalist and the great-uncle of the three girls killed in southern Lebanon, was also injured in the attack. He told Al Mayadeen, an Arabic satellite channel based in Beirut, that they were sisters and had returned to their village to gather school books after fleeing to Beirut amid the clashes.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/11/10/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news#israel-is-considering-a-deal-for-hamas-to-release-all-civilian-hostages-in-gaza-officials-say

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Can we try to keep unironic race science out of this thread, and ideally out of our understanding of the similarities and differences between Jews and Arabs in general? Thanks in advance.

[NOVA Green]

Progress in hostage negotiations...

Hamas and Israel are negotiating two hostage release proposals, one involving a small number of people and one that could involve 100 or more civilians being held in Gaza, according to officials briefed on the talks.

Hamas and other Palestinian groups are holding around 240 people hostage in Gaza, according to Israeli officials and others briefed on the talks. A little less than half of them are civilians, and the larger deal being negotiated would involve the release of all of those, one official said.

Under one proposal being discussed, Hamas would release 10 to 20 civilian hostages — Israeli women and children as well as foreigners, including Americans — in exchange for a brief pause in hostilities, one official briefed on the talks said. That could be followed by a larger release of about 100 civilians if terms are met.

In exchange for releasing all the civilians, Hamas is asking for a brief pause, more humanitarian aid, fuel for hospitals and the release of women and children in Israeli prisons, the official said, adding that the Israeli authorities had expressed uncertainty about releasing their prisoners.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/11/10/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news#israel-is-considering-a-deal-for-hamas-to-release-all-civilian-hostages-in-gaza-officials-say

[Indy Texas 🇺🇦🇵🇸]

https://twitter.com/saifedean/status/1722601251399979298

Even if it were true, the Israeli argument that it's fine to disenfranchise Palestinians because their ancestors had "only" been living there for 200-300 years would come across as quite problematic if, say, Native Americans were to try to use it against the overwhelming majority of inhabitants of the United States.

[Hnv1]

Intensive fighting around Shifa and the City Centre. Israeli Armour reportedly already in the old legislative council building.
Lots of little packs of Hamas fighters are popping out, but little organised resistance.

[Hnv1]

Second evacuation corridor opens on Al-Rasheed road adjacent to the coast. This will enable whatever “refugees” in As-Shati to move south before the IDF works to close the pincer.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Second evacuation corridor opens on Al-Rasheed road adjacent to the coast. This will enable whatever “refugees” in As-Shati to move south before the IDF works to close the pincer.

Do we know how many have left so far since the pauses started?

[Hnv1]

Second evacuation corridor opens on Al-Rasheed road adjacent to the coast. This will enable whatever “refugees” in As-Shati to move south before the IDF works to close the pincer.

Do we know how many have left so far since the pauses started?

Unclear. It seems about half of the population of GC and northern Gaza left before the start of the ground campaign. Roughly 150-250K joined them since. There’s still a chunk left in the eastern neighbourhoods and Jabalia, the western and northern neighbourhoods are almost completely deserted.
The “refugees” are always more reluctant to leave as the principle of staying put until the return is practically a sacrament

[Agafin]

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1723060216629977157

I honestly fail to see why Israel should care about that. If the US and most of Western Europe stays on Israel's side, what consequence would befall it if the so called "Global South" despises it? I mean, isn't that already the case?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Blinken brings a notable shift in US language toward Israel as pressure mounts at home and abroad

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/10/politics/us-support-for-israel

Effect of the democratic voter base pressure at home, after the correlation was proved with the declining poll numbers for Joe Biden and the return of Donald Trump.

The rhetoric will change towards pressuring Israel more for a peaceful solution, but the actions will remain the same. Israel is too strategic to the United States on an economic and geopolitical level, as their door to have a say on what goes on in the Middle East.

They care about this relationship with Israel way more than with Palestinian non-white lives.

Please stop trying to make this about race, thanks.

This is a literal race war. Race has everything to do with it. "Brown vs white" or "non-white vs white" is a facile and incorrect way of putting it, but Palestinian vs Jew? Yeah, it's a race war between Palestinians and Jews.

More of a religious one . Islamists never accepted the fact that a non Islamic nation existed in their region and have been trying to destroy Israel for that reason alone .

This is even dumber than calling it a race war

[windjammer]

What is going to be the future of Gaza and Hamas ?

[Hnv1]

What is going to be the future of Gaza and Hamas ?

Officially: TBD

If Hamas had any brains they'd announce their leadership will exit Gaza and they agree for their government apparatus to be subsumed by the PA. that will give them at least de facto control in various parts of Gaza

[windjammer]

What is going to be the future of Gaza and Hamas ?

Officially: TBD

If Hamas had any brains they'd announce their leadership will exit Gaza and they agree for their government apparatus to be subsumed by the PA. that will give them at least de facto control in various parts of Gaza

Call me optimistic but I think that Israel is going to be much safer post war. Removing Hamas for ever will greatly stabilize the region

[Meclazine for Israel]

Gaza War Map

https://twitter.com/War_Mapper/status/1723214158403899448?s=20

Israel have announced that Commander of the Naser Radwan Company, Ahmed Siam, has been eliminated.


Ahmed Siam (IDF)

According to the IDF, ol' mate tried to hold 1,000's of Gazan civilian's hostage and force them to stay as a human shield around Rantisi Hospital.

Hamas then got their media machine to try and build up the story:
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231110-israeli-tanks-besiege-civilians-at-al-rantisi-hospital/

The IDF subsequently disposed of Siam and civilians are free to leave the hospital. Some have been transported to the Rafah border to be sent to Egypt and Jordan.

It makes no sense that after 3 weeks notice from the IDF, you would want to hang around these Gaza bases knowing they are Israeli targets.

There is an Instagram video of Hamas allegedly firing on Gazan civilians trying to move south, but I cannot verify it as being around the Rantisi Hospital.

Mitt is not in the mood for a ceasefire.

Sen. Mitt Romney

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Czav7VSI8Ju/

Anti-Jewish protests have continued around the World in:

1. Australia;

ABC Top Story

You just knew the words "pro-Palestinian" would get top news story on the ABC website. They spent some dollars on that story and production, all for virtually nothing in terms of public interest. Now that Hamas are getting crushed, ABC won't report the truth in Gaza. My local member of Parliament wont say a word about Israel now.

2. England:

Reuters Story

Pro-Palestinian rallies on Armistice Day are hardly going to win these people any friends in England and Australia.

You can hardly credit the London protestors having any real previous interest in the lives of Muslims in the Middle East. Why have we not seen them protest before?

[Hindsight was 2020]

What is going to be the future of Gaza and Hamas ?

Officially: TBD

If Hamas had any brains they'd announce their leadership will exit Gaza and they agree for their government apparatus to be subsumed by the PA. that will give them at least de facto control in various parts of Gaza

Call me optimistic but I think that Israel is going to be much safer post war. Removing Hamas for ever will greatly stabilize the region

I don’t see how with how reanimated the hatred for them is across the Middle East.

[Hnv1]

What is going to be the future of Gaza and Hamas ?

Officially: TBD

If Hamas had any brains they'd announce their leadership will exit Gaza and they agree for their government apparatus to be subsumed by the PA. that will give them at least de facto control in various parts of Gaza

Call me optimistic but I think that Israel is going to be much safer post war. Removing Hamas for ever will greatly stabilize the region

I don’t see how with how reanimated the hatred for them is across the Middle East.

The hatred never went anywhere. But not one of the Arab countries we have diplomatic relations with dared break them, and none of our enemies dared enter a full war. The truth is, nobody gives two F about the Palestinians, and that's especially so about Gazans.

[CumbrianLefty]

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1723060216629977157

I honestly fail to see why Israel should care about that. If the US and most of Western Europe stays on Israel's side, what consequence would befall it if the so called "Global South" despises it? I mean, isn't that already the case?

If support for Israel drops amongst the electorates of democratic countries, over time that will have an effect on governments who rely on their support.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Well someone is lying about Al-Shifa Hospital:

Al Jazeera

Al-Shifa Hospital Under Siege

or;

IDF

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzgtC1HNvAj/

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzhR1nytUCe/

Now that we have Israeli footage inside Gaza, rhe news is becoming divergent.

Israel is suggesting the World has been fed.on a diet of Hamas propaganda.

[Agafin]

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1723060216629977157

I honestly fail to see why Israel should care about that. If the US and most of Western Europe stays on Israel's side, what consequence would befall it if the so called "Global South" despises it? I mean, isn't that already the case?

If support for Israel drops amongst the electorates of democratic countries, over time that will have an effect on governments who rely on their support.

Is there a sign of that happening so far?

[Hnv1]

Some 600 meters separate the 142nd division from the north and the 36th from the south to meet in Rimal.

Of the three nerve centers with Hamas HQ below:
-Al Quds Hospital - surrounded
-Shifa Hospital - a small corridor is still open to the east. Edit: now surrounded
-Indonesian Hospital - no forces around yet

Hamas' resistance is almost completely around Shiffa now, and it's not all that powerful. Their sporadic ATGM ambushes in Beit Hanoun are much more effective in delaying the 252nd division from reaching Jabalia. But overall Hamas as a fighting body is done.

This is by far one the finest urban combats that will go down in history books.

[Hnv1]

IDF at the Palestinian Legislative Council building. 19th anniversary of Arafat's death.

[Hnv1]

https://twitter.com/war_mapper/status/1723386229675208739?s=46&t=B3Vj2WDosJ_...

Relatively accurate though there’s been more advancements the past 12 hours

[pppolitics]

Macron calls on Israel to stop killing Gaza's women and babies

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67356581

[DK_Mo82]

The scene and reports at Al Shifa Hospital gut wrenching. I''m sure its the case, horrible things happen elsewhere, there are no cameras and less media and general overal global population's interest. This sort of brutality gut wrenching especially factoring in IDF has plenty of alternatives to how they behave.