🇦🇺 Australian Indigenous Voice to Parliament Referendum (October 14th)

[Meclazine for Israel]

Personally I'm a little sceptical that The Voice would really solve this and I think that a campaign based around the guilty consciences of mainstream Australian society was not a very good idea.

Summed up the referendum perfectly. Well enunciated.

It's simply the wrong solution for tackling the issues at hand. In fact, it is insulting to note that the issues faced by Aboriginal people are not being addressed right now. Prime Minister Albanese spent more time at the Australian Tennis Open in 2023 than he did investigating the indigenous issues in Alice Springs.

We have aboriginal's in Alice Springs getting their hand sanitizer and lemonade on ice ready for Friday night drinks:

https://www.caama.com.au/2023/02/21/an-uptake-of-hand-sanitiser-drinking-followed-alcohol-bans-in-mparntwe-alice-springs/

[warandwar]

Underclass is a distinct word with different connotations than "oppressed," to be sure, but I think that if Jews in Medieval Europe (how many centuries of discrimination?) don't qualify then few groups do.

Here's the opening sentence of YIVO's Encyclopedia of Jews in Eastern Europe's entry on crime (the academic standard)

In Western tradition, a number of factors combined to create the image of Jews as a group with a special propensity for criminal activity.

If you want to create a worldview based on stereotypes you should at least remember that stereotypes can change.

This wasn't just a "midieval" issue - jewish gangsters had monopolies on smuggling, human trafficking and prostitution in the turn of the century. Some of the greatest Yiddish literature is about these gangs, like Isaac Babel's Odessa stories (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odessa_Stories).

I'm curious where you get this idea that life in the shtetl was a paradise of economic opportunity and plenty.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Underclass is a distinct word with different connotations than "oppressed," to be sure, but I think that if Jews in Medieval Europe (how many centuries of discrimination?) don't qualify then few groups do.

Here's the opening sentence of YIVO's Encyclopedia of Jews in Eastern Europe's entry on crime (the academic standard)

In Western tradition, a number of factors combined to create the image of Jews as a group with a special propensity for criminal activity.

If you want to create a worldview based on stereotypes you should at least remember that stereotypes can change.

This wasn't just a "midieval" issue - jewish gangsters had monopolies on smuggling, human trafficking and prostitution in the turn of the century. Some of the greatest Yiddish literature is about these gangs, like Isaac Babel's Odessa stories (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odessa_Stories).

I'm curious where you get this idea that life in the shtetl was a paradise of economic opportunity and plenty.

1. Yes, some Jews were involved with some crime, as with all other groups. But, the question is compared to what.

With regards to violent crime, evidence from major cities that saw large population growth from both Jews and non-Jews in the 19th century (New York, London, Buenos Aires) did not record Jews as having crime rates notably higher than other immigrant groups, despite Jews having historically been comprised a "perpetual underclass" in Europe.*

As for the European stereotypes, it is important to analyze the specific details involved. Although Jews were sometimes accused of crimes, as your own source notes

Jewish criminality, or more accurately, criminal activity by Jews, fell into two main categories: such activity as defined by the criminal code of the state, and violations by Jews of restrictive legislation directed only, or primarily, against them.

The physical location of Jews on the borderlands of empires and their concentration in urban settings and in certain types of trade and commerce made certain criminal activities stereotypically “Jewish.” Foremost among these was smuggling.

Jews became associated with modern forms of criminality, such as insurance fraud and dishonest investment schemes.

Jews were never stereotyped as being disproportionately involved with violent crime. They were (oftentimes accurately) stereotyped as evading certain state laws involving trade and commerce, and being disproportionately responsible for certain financial crimes, both those mentioned and more mundane ones such as usury. Both of these claims are probably true: but I think they if anything prove my point. Despite being heavily oppressed, Jews did not engage in large amounts of violent crime. They were most likely to be involved in forms of crime common in borderlands, especially ethnic groups split by borders, and in crimes specific to economic sectors they were disproportionately involved in.

2. That's a complete strawman. Embarrassing you would even post that. My whole point was that the Shetl wasn't like that and Jews still didn't have comparable rates of crime.

3. More broadly, I do not believe in the mere repetition of stereotypes. I do believe stereotypes can sometimes have value if their origins reflect a broad pattern, but I do my best to ground myself in data before making claims.

*Actually, I was curious about this and did a bit of reading. The best source I could find on the matter suggests that Jews were less likely to be involved in violent crime in these cities: in New York, for example, this paper (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831353/) finds that immigrants from Russia (mostly Jews) had a commitment rate 65% of that predicted by age for immigrants, while Irish immigrants had a commitment rate 209% greater than that predicted, Mexican immigrants 97% greater than predicted, and English immigrants 8% greater than predicted.

[warandwar]

Jews were never stereotyped as being disproportionately involved with violent crime

One of the main antisemitic stereotypes is that we kill young children and use their blood for matzoh.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Jews were never stereotyped as being disproportionately involved with violent crime

One of the main antisemitic stereotypes is that we kill young children and use their blood for matzoh.

Blood libels /= widespread stereotypes. Also regardless moot, since Jews didn't actually do that, but Aboriginals do commit wildly disproportionate shares of violent crime.

[Meclazine for Israel]

As we approach the last week, Laura Tingle, ABC's attack dog lefty is nearly rabid with hate for the NO campaign. She blames racism, she blames John Howard, Tony Abbott.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-07/bitter-politics-voice-debate-another-ugly-chapter-history/102941070

Laura is not a happy camper. She has obviously seen the latest polls, and her discomfort is apparent.

She uses the words ugly, depressing, racist, professional killers of Aborigines, large-scale killings, the horror, systemic shooting and poisoning, horrendously, perpetuate misinformation.

Laura talks of white people participating in aboriginal killings whilst they tried to live peacefully on farms or in small towns.

Australia does not have a Klu Klux Klan. It is the female population in Western Australia who are under immense danger from Aboriginal men:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-08/warwick-mother-daughter-murders-leslie-cameron-appeal-rejected/7492102

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/cctv-footage-shows-former-afl-players-alleged-horror-attack-on-women-in-car-park/news-story/fd83ae6e3e1950625cd11854661bb07f

All Western Australians I know leave Aboriginal people alone, they are free to live as they see fit. We stop on the side of the road and help them when they are broken down. We are happy for them to succeed and don't want them to interact with the criminal justice system.

Yet, judging by the numbers, they are seemingly interacting poorly with society. Stats don't lie.

This is not Afghanistan like Laura Tingle suggests. I wish the "hyperbolae" moderation system at Atlas could be used on the ABC News.

The most amazing thing is that Laura Tingle is imagining that people will vote YES after she writes such negative articles.

The reality is quite the opposite.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Voice Debate on Sky News

A No Vote Means No Progress

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPBdTdecc6A

ABC Q & A

The Voice Episode

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnEFwyHDsBE

[GoTfan]

As we approach the last week, Laura Tingle, ABC's attack dog lefty is nearly rabid with hate for the NO campaign. She blames racism, she blames John Howard, Tony Abbott.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-07/bitter-politics-voice-debate-another-ugly-chapter-history/102941070

Laura is not a happy camper. She has obviously seen the latest polls, and her discomfort is apparent.

She uses the words ugly, depressing, racist, professional killers of Aborigines, large-scale killings, the horror, systemic shooting and poisoning, horrendously, perpetuate misinformation.

Laura talks of white people participating in aboriginal killings whilst they tried to live peacefully on farms or in small towns.

Australia does not have a Klu Klux Klan. It is the female population in Western Australia who are under immense danger from Aboriginal men:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-08/warwick-mother-daughter-murders-leslie-cameron-appeal-rejected/7492102

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/cctv-footage-shows-former-afl-players-alleged-horror-attack-on-women-in-car-park/news-story/fd83ae6e3e1950625cd11854661bb07f

All Western Australians I know leave Aboriginal people alone, they are free to live as they see fit. We stop on the side of the road and help them when they are broken down. We are happy for them to succeed and don't want them to interact with the criminal justice system.

Yet, judging by the numbers, they are seemingly interacting poorly with society. Stats don't lie.

This is not Afghanistan like Laura Tingle suggests. I wish the "hyperbolae" moderation system at Atlas could be used on the ABC News.

The most amazing thing is that Laura Tingle is imagining that people will vote YES after she writes such negative articles.

The reality is quite the opposite.

Meclazine, stop it. You have done nothing but be obtuse, racist, and just plain weird. You think the ABC is biased for the same reason everyone on the right does in Australia: because they don't spout right wing viewpoints like Sky News does.

I get that you hate black people with a vengeance, but for the love of God, stop pretending that you're intelligent. You, like Trump, just want to pretend the world is based against when the only reason you think that in your tiny mind is because not everyone spouts right wing viewpoints like the good little NewsCorp drones you want them to be.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

As we approach the last week, Laura Tingle, ABC's attack dog lefty is nearly rabid with hate for the NO campaign. She blames racism, she blames John Howard, Tony Abbott.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-07/bitter-politics-voice-debate-another-ugly-chapter-history/102941070

Laura is not a happy camper. She has obviously seen the latest polls, and her discomfort is apparent.

She uses the words ugly, depressing, racist, professional killers of Aborigines, large-scale killings, the horror, systemic shooting and poisoning, horrendously, perpetuate misinformation.

Laura talks of white people participating in aboriginal killings whilst they tried to live peacefully on farms or in small towns.

Australia does not have a Klu Klux Klan. It is the female population in Western Australia who are under immense danger from Aboriginal men:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-08/warwick-mother-daughter-murders-leslie-cameron-appeal-rejected/7492102

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/cctv-footage-shows-former-afl-players-alleged-horror-attack-on-women-in-car-park/news-story/fd83ae6e3e1950625cd11854661bb07f

All Western Australians I know leave Aboriginal people alone, they are free to live as they see fit. We stop on the side of the road and help them when they are broken down. We are happy for them to succeed and don't want them to interact with the criminal justice system.

Yet, judging by the numbers, they are seemingly interacting poorly with society. Stats don't lie.

This is not Afghanistan like Laura Tingle suggests. I wish the "hyperbolae" moderation system at Atlas could be used on the ABC News.

The most amazing thing is that Laura Tingle is imagining that people will vote YES after she writes such negative articles.

The reality is quite the opposite.

Meclazine, stop it. You have done nothing but be obtuse, racist, and just plain weird. You think the ABC is biased for the same reason everyone on the right does in Australia: because they don't spout right wing viewpoints like Sky News does.

I get that you hate black people with a vengeance, but for the love of God, stop pretending that you're intelligent. You, like Trump, just want to pretend the world is based against when the only reason you think that in your tiny mind is because not everyone spouts right wing viewpoints like the good little NewsCorp drones you want them to be.

This is a very rude and uncalled for post.

[GoTfan]

As we approach the last week, Laura Tingle, ABC's attack dog lefty is nearly rabid with hate for the NO campaign. She blames racism, she blames John Howard, Tony Abbott.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-07/bitter-politics-voice-debate-another-ugly-chapter-history/102941070

Laura is not a happy camper. She has obviously seen the latest polls, and her discomfort is apparent.

She uses the words ugly, depressing, racist, professional killers of Aborigines, large-scale killings, the horror, systemic shooting and poisoning, horrendously, perpetuate misinformation.

Laura talks of white people participating in aboriginal killings whilst they tried to live peacefully on farms or in small towns.

Australia does not have a Klu Klux Klan. It is the female population in Western Australia who are under immense danger from Aboriginal men:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-08/warwick-mother-daughter-murders-leslie-cameron-appeal-rejected/7492102

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/cctv-footage-shows-former-afl-players-alleged-horror-attack-on-women-in-car-park/news-story/fd83ae6e3e1950625cd11854661bb07f

All Western Australians I know leave Aboriginal people alone, they are free to live as they see fit. We stop on the side of the road and help them when they are broken down. We are happy for them to succeed and don't want them to interact with the criminal justice system.

Yet, judging by the numbers, they are seemingly interacting poorly with society. Stats don't lie.

This is not Afghanistan like Laura Tingle suggests. I wish the "hyperbolae" moderation system at Atlas could be used on the ABC News.

The most amazing thing is that Laura Tingle is imagining that people will vote YES after she writes such negative articles.

The reality is quite the opposite.

Meclazine, stop it. You have done nothing but be obtuse, racist, and just plain weird. You think the ABC is biased for the same reason everyone on the right does in Australia: because they don't spout right wing viewpoints like Sky News does.

I get that you hate black people with a vengeance, but for the love of God, stop pretending that you're intelligent. You, like Trump, just want to pretend the world is based against when the only reason you think that in your tiny mind is because not everyone spouts right wing viewpoints like the good little NewsCorp drones you want them to be.

This is a very rude and uncalled for post.

And yet, I didn't lie once. Meclazine is on record as not considering asylum seekers to be 'real' refugees, and if that's not textbook racism, I am not sure what is. He has been spreading as much misinformation as he likes without anyone calling him on it.

I will continue to keep calling him out.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

As we approach the last week, Laura Tingle, ABC's attack dog lefty is nearly rabid with hate for the NO campaign. She blames racism, she blames John Howard, Tony Abbott.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-07/bitter-politics-voice-debate-another-ugly-chapter-history/102941070

Laura is not a happy camper. She has obviously seen the latest polls, and her discomfort is apparent.

She uses the words ugly, depressing, racist, professional killers of Aborigines, large-scale killings, the horror, systemic shooting and poisoning, horrendously, perpetuate misinformation.

Laura talks of white people participating in aboriginal killings whilst they tried to live peacefully on farms or in small towns.

Australia does not have a Klu Klux Klan. It is the female population in Western Australia who are under immense danger from Aboriginal men:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-08/warwick-mother-daughter-murders-leslie-cameron-appeal-rejected/7492102

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/cctv-footage-shows-former-afl-players-alleged-horror-attack-on-women-in-car-park/news-story/fd83ae6e3e1950625cd11854661bb07f

All Western Australians I know leave Aboriginal people alone, they are free to live as they see fit. We stop on the side of the road and help them when they are broken down. We are happy for them to succeed and don't want them to interact with the criminal justice system.

Yet, judging by the numbers, they are seemingly interacting poorly with society. Stats don't lie.

This is not Afghanistan like Laura Tingle suggests. I wish the "hyperbolae" moderation system at Atlas could be used on the ABC News.

The most amazing thing is that Laura Tingle is imagining that people will vote YES after she writes such negative articles.

The reality is quite the opposite.

Meclazine, stop it. You have done nothing but be obtuse, racist, and just plain weird. You think the ABC is biased for the same reason everyone on the right does in Australia: because they don't spout right wing viewpoints like Sky News does.

I get that you hate black people with a vengeance, but for the love of God, stop pretending that you're intelligent. You, like Trump, just want to pretend the world is based against when the only reason you think that in your tiny mind is because not everyone spouts right wing viewpoints like the good little NewsCorp drones you want them to be.

This is a very rude and uncalled for post.

And yet, I didn't lie once. Meclazine is on record as not considering asylum seekers to be 'real' refugees, and if that's not textbook racism, I am not sure what is. He has been spreading as much misinformation as he likes without anyone calling him on it.

I will continue to keep calling him out.

I mean, isn't this literally not textbook racism? It isn't discrimination on the basis of race, it's a specific claim made surrounding individuals who have traveled long distances seeking asylum in the country. You can claim it's motivated by racism, but it definitely isn't textbook, and I'd point out that even if you want to go down that direction conventional understandings of asylum are pretty clear that it's about providing a port of safe haven, not free immigration permission -- for all except those who being persecuted by the governments of Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, or New Zealand, I don't see why Australia would constitute the first port of safe haven rather than simply being an economically desirable destination.

I actually think Meclazine is very forthright and consistently honest about his beliefs, which if anything tend to be pretty abnormally (by the standards of this extremely ideological community) tame center-right. I think there's basically no evidence to suggest he's a racist and that your accusation is mainly motivated by annoyance at him for being a pretty non-extreme opponent of a proposal you support.

[Joseph Cao]

2. Why have the "Racism, racial bias, and historic disadvantage" perpetrated by the Australian government in 2023 driven Aboriginal Australians to such a high rate of crime, but the overt discrimination practiced by the government of, say, Malaysia against Chinese Malaysians has not?

Actually, it is not particularly common for that to be the case. I am unaware of any particular historic Jewish proclivity to crime, or Flemish, or Basque, or Catalonian, or Chinese Malaysian, to name just a few groups that have been historically discriminated against. Underclass is a distinct word with different connotations than "oppressed," to be sure, but I think that if Jews in Medieval Europe (how many centuries of discrimination?) don't qualify then few groups do.

I am not sure where the recent posts about Chinese Malaysians are coming from but if you have anything to say about it, which I assume is the case, there are probably better places to post about it – the Malaysia thread on IGD, for instance – than in a discussion about a referendum concerning a community lacking the historically very strong resources, private means, cohesive group identity, et cetera that Chinese Malaysians have enjoyed.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

2. Why have the "Racism, racial bias, and historic disadvantage" perpetrated by the Australian government in 2023 driven Aboriginal Australians to such a high rate of crime, but the overt discrimination practiced by the government of, say, Malaysia against Chinese Malaysians has not?

Actually, it is not particularly common for that to be the case. I am unaware of any particular historic Jewish proclivity to crime, or Flemish, or Basque, or Catalonian, or Chinese Malaysian, to name just a few groups that have been historically discriminated against. Underclass is a distinct word with different connotations than "oppressed," to be sure, but I think that if Jews in Medieval Europe (how many centuries of discrimination?) don't qualify then few groups do.

I am not sure where the recent posts about Chinese Malaysians are coming from but if you have anything to say about it, which I assume is the case, there are probably better places to post about it – the Malaysia thread on IGD, for instance – than in a discussion about a referendum concerning a community lacking the historically very strong resources, private means, cohesive group identity, et cetera that Chinese Malaysians have enjoyed.

It’s a pretty common example used by Thomas Sowell in his books, to name just one source. Glad to discuss comparatively either here or elsewhere if you’re interested, though.

[Joseph Cao]

2. Why have the "Racism, racial bias, and historic disadvantage" perpetrated by the Australian government in 2023 driven Aboriginal Australians to such a high rate of crime, but the overt discrimination practiced by the government of, say, Malaysia against Chinese Malaysians has not?

Actually, it is not particularly common for that to be the case. I am unaware of any particular historic Jewish proclivity to crime, or Flemish, or Basque, or Catalonian, or Chinese Malaysian, to name just a few groups that have been historically discriminated against. Underclass is a distinct word with different connotations than "oppressed," to be sure, but I think that if Jews in Medieval Europe (how many centuries of discrimination?) don't qualify then few groups do.

I am not sure where the recent posts about Chinese Malaysians are coming from but if you have anything to say about it, which I assume is the case, there are probably better places to post about it – the Malaysia thread on IGD, for instance – than in a discussion about a referendum concerning a community lacking the historically very strong resources, private means, cohesive group identity, et cetera that Chinese Malaysians have enjoyed.

It’s a pretty common example used by Thomas Sowell in his books, to name just one source. Glad to discuss comparatively either here or elsewhere if you’re interested, though.

If Sowell's understanding of Chinese Malaysians places discrimination against them at a level commensurate with discrimination against peoples like the one this thread is about, then that rather lowers my impression of Sowell's evaluative and comparative ability. Perhaps it might be better to take that discussion to this thread.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Not much news on the VOICE campaign because of the Israel conflict.

Australia's greatest ever Prime Minister, John Howard, has come out swinging in the final week of the Referendum.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-09/nt-john-howard-abbott-say-nt-is-a-failed-state/102950330

"Claims by former prime minister John Howard that the Northern Territory is experiencing a "failure of government" have been labelled a "partisan swipe" by political economist Rolf Gerritsen."


John Howard served as Australia's greatest ever prime minister from 1996 to 2007.(Reuters: Mark Baker)

"If you go to any Aboriginal community the services are vastly substandard.", he said.

[TheTide]

I'd rate Chifley, Curtin, Menzies, Whitlam, Hawke, Keating above Howard, but whatever.

[Meclazine for Israel]

I'd rate Chifley, Curtin, Menzies, Whitlam, Hawke, Keating above Howard, but whatever.

He fixed the Unions and the Semi Automatic Gun legislation.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

2. Why have the "Racism, racial bias, and historic disadvantage" perpetrated by the Australian government in 2023 driven Aboriginal Australians to such a high rate of crime, but the overt discrimination practiced by the government of, say, Malaysia against Chinese Malaysians has not?

Actually, it is not particularly common for that to be the case. I am unaware of any particular historic Jewish proclivity to crime, or Flemish, or Basque, or Catalonian, or Chinese Malaysian, to name just a few groups that have been historically discriminated against. Underclass is a distinct word with different connotations than "oppressed," to be sure, but I think that if Jews in Medieval Europe (how many centuries of discrimination?) don't qualify then few groups do.

I am not sure where the recent posts about Chinese Malaysians are coming from but if you have anything to say about it, which I assume is the case, there are probably better places to post about it – the Malaysia thread on IGD, for instance – than in a discussion about a referendum concerning a community lacking the historically very strong resources, private means, cohesive group identity, et cetera that Chinese Malaysians have enjoyed.

It’s a pretty common example used by Thomas Sowell in his books, to name just one source. Glad to discuss comparatively either here or elsewhere if you’re interested, though.

If Sowell's understanding of Chinese Malaysians places discrimination against them at a level commensurate with discrimination against peoples like the one this thread is about, then that rather lowers my impression of Sowell's evaluative and comparative ability. Perhaps it might be better to take that discussion to this thread.

Certainly. Feel free to take a first pass.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Hell, Howard doesn’t even have the greatest Prime Ministerial eyebrows!

[Meclazine for Israel]

Hell, Howard doesn’t even have the greatest Prime Ministerial eyebrows!

Ok, best cricket bowling action.

[GoTfan]

I'd rate Chifley, Curtin, Menzies, Whitlam, Hawke, Keating above Howard, but whatever.

He fixed the Unions and the Semi Automatic Gun legislation.

First off, he didn;t fix the unions. He instituted inquiry after inquiry and found little to no evidence of corruption in them.

Second, the man p***ed away potentially trillions in revenue by cutting taxes during the mining boom instead of investing it in education or healthcare, and he did it as a bribe for votes.

Third, WorkChoices. Dear God, WorkChoices.

Fourth, the GST. Says very clearly that he won't enact it and that it was "100% dead", then decides to enact it.

Fifth, and what I consider to be most damaging of all, the man had one single indicator of economic success: is the budget in surplus or not? If yes, then the economy is good. If no, then it's bad. That little f***ing dipstick has made sure that stupid indicator haunts politics to this very bloody day.

He sucked and he poisoned Australian politics. It will take decades to reverse the damage he did to this country.

[Meclazine for Israel]

9 October 2023

ABC Q and A

https://twitter.com/abcnews/status/1711336005222236479?s=20

[Meclazine for Israel]

Senator Antic explains the issues discovered regarding the media, in particular, the ABC.

https://fb.watch/nAs_IKAksU/

If it does not fit the ABC plans for the YES vote, they will not broadcast or record it.

But what the ABC does not realise is people can see this going on, and it has the exact opposite effect.

I remember when the media interviewed the man recognised as the greatest Australia Prime Minister's John Howard, and they asked him what he learnt about working in the public eye.

He said (paraphrasing) "Never underestimate the ability of the average Australian to see through a crock story."

[GoTfan]

Senator Antic explains the issues discovered regarding the media, in particular, the ABC.

https://fb.watch/nAs_IKAksU/

If it does not fit the ABC plans for the YES vote, they will not broadcast or record it.

But what the ABC does not realise is people can see this going on, and it has the exact opposite effect.

I remember when the media interviewed the man recognised as the greatest Australia Prime Minister's John Howard, and they asked him what he learnt about working in the public eye.

He said (paraphrasing) "Never underestimate the ability of the average Australian to see through a crock story."

Stop droning on about how fantastic John Howard is (he was pretty awful) and stop spreading disinformation about the ABC. Simply put, you only think they're biased because they are not saying what you want them to say.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Meet Chris Fenwick.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-10/no-voice-campaign-donor-simon-fenwick-indigenous-ventures-730/102955688


Simon Fenwick is the largest known donor to Advance Australia.(AFR)

Mr Fenwick is the largest known donor to Advance Australia, which is behind the Fair Australia campaign.

"It's pretty clear that he considers himself to be an ideological warrior of the right," said Josh Roose, an associate professor of political sociology at Deakin University.

"He rails very powerfully against what he considers to be the cultural Marxism that's underpinning Australian politics. He talks about brainwashing, identity politics, he rails against climate change."

Personally, he could have saved his $1.4M donation. The NO campaign, according to the latest RESOLVE polls, is almost home.