NY: Convicted Felon Donald Trump!

[Landslide Lyndon]

Heck, Clint Eastwood at 94 looks better than him.

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

If holding accountable a former president for his crimes is going to tear a country apart then this country isn't worth saving.

Easy to say that when you’re from a mess of a country like Greece where corrupt officials rarelt get held accountable and you don’t have as much to lose. We have a 250 year old democracy on the line.

Appeasing would be terrorists is probably not a good idea. There are other problems with your argument as well, but I'm going to bed.

Amazing how willing you are to apply that logic to the U.S., but not to Israel.

Lmfao. Many of us here are from corrupt countries abroad, therefore we frankly couldn't give a damn about the fake tears being spewing out from butthurt U.S. conservatives. And why is that may you ask? Because at least a semblance of accountability for the actions of whatever politicians do is possible here and not so much as back in our home countries.

If Trump getting charged for financial crimes, not amongst the rest of the charges that should be slapped upon him, other is a threat to U.S. democracy, then what does that say about the current state of democracy in America? Just how open we are about our corruption and the fact we don't care about it?

And in regards to "appeasing terrorists" in regards to the war in Gaza, tell me with a straight face if the proportion of Hamas fighters and others killed to civilians dead is not a sign that Israel should be reigned in or at least we should put pressure on them to change their strategy, assuming they even have one.

[mjba257]

Truly I do not understand the "if they can come for Trump, they can come for you" line. Nobody has ever doubted that they can come for average Americans if they want to.

As CCR famously said: "when the band plays "Hail to the Chief," they point the cannon at you."

We know they can come for us. They always have, whether it was the 1877 railroad strike, the Battle of Blair Mountain, COINTRLPRO, or yes, both the George Floyd protests and January 6th. If anyone in the US doubts that they live under the authority of the federal government be it legitimately or capriciously, and that that government will act to reinforce that control, they are either extremely naive or extremely stupid.

What they never do is turn the canons around and go after the commander-in-chief. For the first time ever, the most powerful people are having to reckon with the consequences of the US not being authoritarian, but having the president be on the same level where the rest of us have always been. That's why yesterday was so special and why everyone who is not one of the six living US presidents should be celebrating it as one of the ultimate achievements of our democratic-republican system.

If Trump were being prosecuted for let's say, molesting an underage girl on Epstein Island, you would not see the kind of backlash we are seeing. People are rightfully angry at this verdict because anyone who isn't a democrat partisan can see how obviously political the whole charade is. If you are going to break a 250-year precedent of never prosecuting former presidents, it better be over something pretty damn serious. This trash out of Manhattan does not even come close to meeting that standard.

And I mention the Epstein scandal because there is sufficient evidence that Trump did in fact sexually abuse an underage girl being trafficked by that POS, at least enough to warrant an investigation. And this actually would be a case that would legitimately destroy Trump politically. Everyone agrees child molestation is a horrific crime worthy of punishment, you have a clear victim who was physically harmed, and solid evidence and credible witnesses (unlike say E Jean Carroll). I do wonder why Dems have never tried going after Trump over that?

Absolutely disagree. This precedent is unjust and a dark stain on the US as a free country. We should have taken any opportunity to do away with it decades, if not centuries ago, and I couldn't care less what the charge was that finally broke it as long as the trial itself stood up to constitutional standards, which this one did. If Trump wanted to keep that norm in place, all he had to do was obey the law.

Well that's the thing, it DIDN'T meet constitutional standards and that is why I believe SCOTUS will have a field day with this. 1) Bragg never specified what the underlying crime was, 2) The jury never had to even agree what the underlying crime was, 3) Statute of limitations had passed, 4) The Defense had to give their closing argument first, even though the burden of proof lie with the prosecution. I can go on

And before you say "tHat'S NeW yOrK lAw" exactly. New York is a banana republic. Years of democrat control have causes that. Clearly, New York's court system is out of line with the constitutional law and why SCOTUS must step in

[OSR stands with Israel]

If holding accountable a former president for his crimes is going to tear a country apart then this country isn't worth saving.

Easy to say that when you’re from a mess of a country like Greece where corrupt officials rarelt get held accountable and you don’t have as much to lose. We have a 250 year old democracy on the line.

Appeasing would be terrorists is probably not a good idea. There are other problems with your argument as well, but I'm going to bed.

Amazing how willing you are to apply that logic to the U.S., but not to Israel.

Lmfao. Many of us here are from corrupt countries abroad, therefore we frankly couldn't give a damn about the fake tears being spewing out from butthurt U.S. conservatives. And why is that may you ask? Because at least a semblance of accountability for the actions of whatever politicians do is possible here and not so much as back in our home countries

Yes, in India politicians get arrested all the time and that has not been good for India .

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Truly I do not understand the "if they can come for Trump, they can come for you" line. Nobody has ever doubted that they can come for average Americans if they want to.

As CCR famously said: "when the band plays "Hail to the Chief," they point the cannon at you."

We know they can come for us. They always have, whether it was the 1877 railroad strike, the Battle of Blair Mountain, COINTRLPRO, or yes, both the George Floyd protests and January 6th. If anyone in the US doubts that they live under the authority of the federal government be it legitimately or capriciously, and that that government will act to reinforce that control, they are either extremely naive or extremely stupid.

What they never do is turn the canons around and go after the commander-in-chief. For the first time ever, the most powerful people are having to reckon with the consequences of the US not being authoritarian, but having the president be on the same level where the rest of us have always been. That's why yesterday was so special and why everyone who is not one of the six living US presidents should be celebrating it as one of the ultimate achievements of our democratic-republican system.

If Trump were being prosecuted for let's say, molesting an underage girl on Epstein Island, you would not see the kind of backlash we are seeing. People are rightfully angry at this verdict because anyone who isn't a democrat partisan can see how obviously political the whole charade is. If you are going to break a 250-year precedent of never prosecuting former presidents, it better be over something pretty damn serious. This trash out of Manhattan does not even come close to meeting that standard.

And I mention the Epstein scandal because there is sufficient evidence that Trump did in fact sexually abuse an underage girl being trafficked by that POS, at least enough to warrant an investigation. And this actually would be a case that would legitimately destroy Trump politically. Everyone agrees child molestation is a horrific crime worthy of punishment, you have a clear victim who was physically harmed, and solid evidence and credible witnesses (unlike say E Jean Carroll). I do wonder why Dems have never tried going after Trump over that?

Absolutely disagree. This precedent is unjust and a dark stain on the US as a free country. We should have taken any opportunity to do away with it decades, if not centuries ago, and I couldn't care less what the charge was that finally broke it as long as the trial itself stood up to constitutional standards, which this one did. If Trump wanted to keep that norm in place, all he had to do was obey the law.

Well that's the thing, it DIDN'T meet constitutional standards and that is why I believe SCOTUS will have a field day with this. 1) Bragg never specified what the underlying crime was, 2) The jury never had to even agree what the underlying crime was, 3) Statute of limitations had passed, 4) The Defense had to give their closing argument first, even though the burden of proof lie with the prosecution. I can go on

And before you say "tHat'S NeW yOrK lAw" exactly. New York is a banana republic. Years of democrat control have causes that. Clearly, New York's court system is out of line with the constitutional law and why SCOTUS must step in

It’s United States law, unless you want to get into the technicalities of Mathis v. United States, 391 U.S. 1 (2016).

[brucejoel99]

Truly I do not understand the "if they can come for Trump, they can come for you" line. Nobody has ever doubted that they can come for average Americans if they want to.

As CCR famously said: "when the band plays "Hail to the Chief," they point the cannon at you."

We know they can come for us. They always have, whether it was the 1877 railroad strike, the Battle of Blair Mountain, COINTRLPRO, or yes, both the George Floyd protests and January 6th. If anyone in the US doubts that they live under the authority of the federal government be it legitimately or capriciously, and that that government will act to reinforce that control, they are either extremely naive or extremely stupid.

What they never do is turn the canons around and go after the commander-in-chief. For the first time ever, the most powerful people are having to reckon with the consequences of the US not being authoritarian, but having the president be on the same level where the rest of us have always been. That's why yesterday was so special and why everyone who is not one of the six living US presidents should be celebrating it as one of the ultimate achievements of our democratic-republican system.

If Trump were being prosecuted for let's say, molesting an underage girl on Epstein Island, you would not see the kind of backlash we are seeing. People are rightfully angry at this verdict because anyone who isn't a democrat partisan can see how obviously political the whole charade is. If you are going to break a 250-year precedent of never prosecuting former presidents, it better be over something pretty damn serious. This trash out of Manhattan does not even come close to meeting that standard.

And I mention the Epstein scandal because there is sufficient evidence that Trump did in fact sexually abuse an underage girl being trafficked by that POS, at least enough to warrant an investigation. And this actually would be a case that would legitimately destroy Trump politically. Everyone agrees child molestation is a horrific crime worthy of punishment, you have a clear victim who was physically harmed, and solid evidence and credible witnesses (unlike say E Jean Carroll). I do wonder why Dems have never tried going after Trump over that?

Absolutely disagree. This precedent is unjust and a dark stain on the US as a free country. We should have taken any opportunity to do away with it decades, if not centuries ago, and I couldn't care less what the charge was that finally broke it as long as the trial itself stood up to constitutional standards, which this one did. If Trump wanted to keep that norm in place, all he had to do was obey the law.

Well that's the thing, it DIDN'T meet constitutional standards and that is why I believe SCOTUS will have a field day with this. 1) Bragg never specified what the underlying crime was, 2) The jury never had to even agree what the underlying crime was, 3) Statute of limitations had passed, 4) The Defense had to give their closing argument first, even though the burden of proof lie with the prosecution. I can go on

And before you say "tHat'S NeW yOrK lAw" exactly. New York is a banana republic. Years of democrat control have causes that. Clearly, New York's court system is out of line with the constitutional law and why SCOTUS must step in

It’s United States law, unless you want to get into the technicalities of Mathis v. United States, 391 U.S. 1 (2016).

The argument that Apprendi modified/overruled Schad is about to become very popular overnight despite being rejected by every court that's ever considered it & despite nobody on this hellnet ever hearing a lick about either of those cases before Trump's appeal begins.

[mjba257]

Truly I do not understand the "if they can come for Trump, they can come for you" line. Nobody has ever doubted that they can come for average Americans if they want to.

As CCR famously said: "when the band plays "Hail to the Chief," they point the cannon at you."

We know they can come for us. They always have, whether it was the 1877 railroad strike, the Battle of Blair Mountain, COINTRLPRO, or yes, both the George Floyd protests and January 6th. If anyone in the US doubts that they live under the authority of the federal government be it legitimately or capriciously, and that that government will act to reinforce that control, they are either extremely naive or extremely stupid.

What they never do is turn the canons around and go after the commander-in-chief. For the first time ever, the most powerful people are having to reckon with the consequences of the US not being authoritarian, but having the president be on the same level where the rest of us have always been. That's why yesterday was so special and why everyone who is not one of the six living US presidents should be celebrating it as one of the ultimate achievements of our democratic-republican system.

If Trump were being prosecuted for let's say, molesting an underage girl on Epstein Island, you would not see the kind of backlash we are seeing. People are rightfully angry at this verdict because anyone who isn't a democrat partisan can see how obviously political the whole charade is. If you are going to break a 250-year precedent of never prosecuting former presidents, it better be over something pretty damn serious. This trash out of Manhattan does not even come close to meeting that standard.

And I mention the Epstein scandal because there is sufficient evidence that Trump did in fact sexually abuse an underage girl being trafficked by that POS, at least enough to warrant an investigation. And this actually would be a case that would legitimately destroy Trump politically. Everyone agrees child molestation is a horrific crime worthy of punishment, you have a clear victim who was physically harmed, and solid evidence and credible witnesses (unlike say E Jean Carroll). I do wonder why Dems have never tried going after Trump over that?

Absolutely disagree. This precedent is unjust and a dark stain on the US as a free country. We should have taken any opportunity to do away with it decades, if not centuries ago, and I couldn't care less what the charge was that finally broke it as long as the trial itself stood up to constitutional standards, which this one did. If Trump wanted to keep that norm in place, all he had to do was obey the law.

Well that's the thing, it DIDN'T meet constitutional standards and that is why I believe SCOTUS will have a field day with this. 1) Bragg never specified what the underlying crime was, 2) The jury never had to even agree what the underlying crime was, 3) Statute of limitations had passed, 4) The Defense had to give their closing argument first, even though the burden of proof lie with the prosecution. I can go on

And before you say "tHat'S NeW yOrK lAw" exactly. New York is a banana republic. Years of democrat control have causes that. Clearly, New York's court system is out of line with the constitutional law and why SCOTUS must step in

It’s United States law, unless you want to get into the technicalities of Mathis v. United States, 391 U.S. 1 (2016).

Let's see what our 6-3 conservative majority Supreme Court says. Remember, people said they wouldn't take up the immunity case. or that Roe would never be overturned.

[SWE]

Is there a single court in the country where the party with the burden of persuasion doesn't get the last word? I'm only familiar with NY and federal court procedures so I've never heard of it being done the other way around

[Skill and Chance]

Truly I do not understand the "if they can come for Trump, they can come for you" line. Nobody has ever doubted that they can come for average Americans if they want to.

As CCR famously said: "when the band plays "Hail to the Chief," they point the cannon at you."

We know they can come for us. They always have, whether it was the 1877 railroad strike, the Battle of Blair Mountain, COINTRLPRO, or yes, both the George Floyd protests and January 6th. If anyone in the US doubts that they live under the authority of the federal government be it legitimately or capriciously, and that that government will act to reinforce that control, they are either extremely naive or extremely stupid.

What they never do is turn the canons around and go after the commander-in-chief. For the first time ever, the most powerful people are having to reckon with the consequences of the US not being authoritarian, but having the president be on the same level where the rest of us have always been. That's why yesterday was so special and why everyone who is not one of the six living US presidents should be celebrating it as one of the ultimate achievements of our democratic-republican system.

If Trump were being prosecuted for let's say, molesting an underage girl on Epstein Island, you would not see the kind of backlash we are seeing. People are rightfully angry at this verdict because anyone who isn't a democrat partisan can see how obviously political the whole charade is. If you are going to break a 250-year precedent of never prosecuting former presidents, it better be over something pretty damn serious. This trash out of Manhattan does not even come close to meeting that standard.

And I mention the Epstein scandal because there is sufficient evidence that Trump did in fact sexually abuse an underage girl being trafficked by that POS, at least enough to warrant an investigation. And this actually would be a case that would legitimately destroy Trump politically. Everyone agrees child molestation is a horrific crime worthy of punishment, you have a clear victim who was physically harmed, and solid evidence and credible witnesses (unlike say E Jean Carroll). I do wonder why Dems have never tried going after Trump over that?

Absolutely disagree. This precedent is unjust and a dark stain on the US as a free country. We should have taken any opportunity to do away with it decades, if not centuries ago, and I couldn't care less what the charge was that finally broke it as long as the trial itself stood up to constitutional standards, which this one did. If Trump wanted to keep that norm in place, all he had to do was obey the law.

Well that's the thing, it DIDN'T meet constitutional standards and that is why I believe SCOTUS will have a field day with this. 1) Bragg never specified what the underlying crime was, 2) The jury never had to even agree what the underlying crime was, 3) Statute of limitations had passed, 4) The Defense had to give their closing argument first, even though the burden of proof lie with the prosecution. I can go on

And before you say "tHat'S NeW yOrK lAw" exactly. New York is a banana republic. Years of democrat control have causes that. Clearly, New York's court system is out of line with the constitutional law and why SCOTUS must step in

It’s United States law, unless you want to get into the technicalities of Mathis v. United States, 391 U.S. 1 (2016).

Let's see what our 6-3 conservative majority Supreme Court says. Remember, people said they wouldn't take up the immunity case. or that Roe would never be overturned.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I think the odds of Kavanaugh getting 5 votes in the current immunity case for his preferred position that a president/former president can only be held criminally liable under a law that mentions the president by name just dramatically went up.

[Crumpets]

[mjba257]

Is there a single court in the country where the party with the burden of persuasion doesn't get the last word? I've never heard of it being done the other way around

They way it's supposed to work because the prosecution has the burden of proof, they go first with closing arguments. The defense isn't even required to give a closing. But they go second so they know what to respond to and what points need to be refuted. The prosecution then has the option to give a rebuttal if they chose. It is NOT supposed to be the defense gives their closing first without knowing what the prosecution is going to say. New York has it backwards and this is absolutely something that should be appealed to SCOTUS.

[Gass3268]

Truly I do not understand the "if they can come for Trump, they can come for you" line. Nobody has ever doubted that they can come for average Americans if they want to.

As CCR famously said: "when the band plays "Hail to the Chief," they point the cannon at you."

We know they can come for us. They always have, whether it was the 1877 railroad strike, the Battle of Blair Mountain, COINTRLPRO, or yes, both the George Floyd protests and January 6th. If anyone in the US doubts that they live under the authority of the federal government be it legitimately or capriciously, and that that government will act to reinforce that control, they are either extremely naive or extremely stupid.

What they never do is turn the canons around and go after the commander-in-chief. For the first time ever, the most powerful people are having to reckon with the consequences of the US not being authoritarian, but having the president be on the same level where the rest of us have always been. That's why yesterday was so special and why everyone who is not one of the six living US presidents should be celebrating it as one of the ultimate achievements of our democratic-republican system.

If Trump were being prosecuted for let's say, molesting an underage girl on Epstein Island, you would not see the kind of backlash we are seeing. People are rightfully angry at this verdict because anyone who isn't a democrat partisan can see how obviously political the whole charade is. If you are going to break a 250-year precedent of never prosecuting former presidents, it better be over something pretty damn serious. This trash out of Manhattan does not even come close to meeting that standard.

And I mention the Epstein scandal because there is sufficient evidence that Trump did in fact sexually abuse an underage girl being trafficked by that POS, at least enough to warrant an investigation. And this actually would be a case that would legitimately destroy Trump politically. Everyone agrees child molestation is a horrific crime worthy of punishment, you have a clear victim who was physically harmed, and solid evidence and credible witnesses (unlike say E Jean Carroll). I do wonder why Dems have never tried going after Trump over that?

Absolutely disagree. This precedent is unjust and a dark stain on the US as a free country. We should have taken any opportunity to do away with it decades, if not centuries ago, and I couldn't care less what the charge was that finally broke it as long as the trial itself stood up to constitutional standards, which this one did. If Trump wanted to keep that norm in place, all he had to do was obey the law.

Well that's the thing, it DIDN'T meet constitutional standards and that is why I believe SCOTUS will have a field day with this. 1) Bragg never specified what the underlying crime was, 2) The jury never had to even agree what the underlying crime was, 3) Statute of limitations had passed, 4) The Defense had to give their closing argument first, even though the burden of proof lie with the prosecution. I can go on

And before you say "tHat'S NeW yOrK lAw" exactly. New York is a banana republic. Years of democrat control have causes that. Clearly, New York's court system is out of line with the constitutional law and why SCOTUS must step in

It’s United States law, unless you want to get into the technicalities of Mathis v. United States, 391 U.S. 1 (2016).

Let's see what our 6-3 conservative majority Supreme Court says. Remember, people said they wouldn't take up the immunity case. or that Roe would never be overturned.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I think the odds of Kavanaugh getting 5 votes in the current immunity case for his preferred position that a president/former president can only be held criminally liable under a law that mentions the president by name just dramatically went up.

Trump wasn't President when he committed these crimes in New York.

[7,052,770]

If holding accountable a former president for his crimes is going to tear a country apart then this country isn't worth saving.

Easy to say that when you’re from a mess of a country like Greece where corrupt officials rarelt get held accountable and you don’t have as much to lose. We have a 250 year old democracy on the line.

Appeasing would be terrorists is probably not a good idea. There are other problems with your argument as well, but I'm going to bed.

Amazing how willing you are to apply that logic to the U.S., but not to Israel.

Lmfao. Many of us here are from corrupt countries abroad, therefore we frankly couldn't give a damn about the fake tears being spewing out from butthurt U.S. conservatives. And why is that may you ask? Because at least a semblance of accountability for the actions of whatever politicians do is possible here and not so much as back in our home countries

Yes, in India politicians get arrested all the time and that has not been good for India .

What's "not good for India" is that it has so many politicians who commit crimes in the first place, not that it holds those politicians accountable for their actions.

[Badger]

Jesus Christ. Why all the simping for two-tiered justice systems here? Seriously. The endless bootlicking for criminal politicians has become insufferable here. You hunch-backed weirdos all write this crap knowing full f#cking well that Joe Blow would be getting his ass rammed in prison right now if he committed one-tenth of the degree of crimes the likes of Nixon or Bush or Trump have committed.

There has to be a reason for it. Is it the same reason multiple users worship warmongers like Scoop Jackson or LBJ on here? Are we so ingrained in the doings of the political establishment that we do their propaganda work for them, in the hopes that one day we, too, might become like them or enjoy the same prestige? Do you want to sit with daddy in the big chair one day?

Is that all you’ve got? Do you seriously have nothing better to do than come and white knight for (legally and/or morally compromised) scumbag politicians? Are you the head of a nursery? Is that what you do? You are a child. You are a child. You are a child.

This isn’t about a two tiered justice system. This is about keeping the damn country together. Half of my posts on this forum are about how much I don’t like Trump and how I believe he’s a danger to democracy. I’ve made it very clear where I stand on him. My issue is that instead of being vulnerable and reaching out to people on the right, people on the left have a “better than you” attitude and instead chose to harass and name-call them, further emboldening people on the right to adopt a victim mentality (of which Trump is the ultimate representation). And people with that mentality will eventually use that mentality to justify physical violence. Does the rise in militia membership, constant social media dogwhistles, and the rescripting of the January 6 attack as a “patriotic demonstration,” not signal to you that what you’ve been doing for the past few years hasn’t been working?

Times of crisis require leaders to show courage and to do things that are unpopular. We’re approaching one of those crises again. Biden is the President- the most powerful person in the country, and he has to do something to demonstrate to all Americans, not just those on the left, that his commitment to keeping the country together is genuine. If he doesn’t, people on the right will turn to Trump, and the lord only knows what kind of ugly things Trump is willing to unleash on our country.

.... How is pardoning someone who committed 34 acts of criminal conduct and letting them off the hook, setting the precedent that presidents can do whatever they want, and be okay even if they are found guilty by a jury, "keeping the damn country together?"

I'm sorry but these takes are absolutely asinine. You don't keep the country together by letting criminals off the hook. You keep the country together by following the rule of law and showing that actions have consequences, just like they would for you and me.

Anyone that is pushing this argument is being incredibly disingenuous and deep down likes Trump. Sorry, but that's the truth.

George W. Bush literally ran a torture program and we never held him accountable. Barack Obama killed an American citizen with a drone strike without any due process, we never held him accountable. Bill Clinton has been credibly accused of numerous sex crimes, we never held him accountable. Reagan and Bush Sr. illegally sold weapons to Iran to fund a proxy war in Nicaragua without Congressional approval - never held accountable. Heck, Trump is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Yeminis due to funding Saudi Arabia's illegal war there. Yet nobody cares. But hush money to a porn star? THAT is when we start "holding power accountable"? No, it's a stupid joke and a waste of time. New York should be embarrassed with itself, perhaps that's why it's population is decreasing. The hypocrisy is enraging and you are a partisan hack. Period

One of these things is not like the other. You are so close to getting it

[Badger]

I know Republicans have no soul and are completely shameless, but it's still astounding to me the level at which they are all going after this trial, calling it politically motivated, calling it rigged, a sham, etc etc when once again, for the 100th time, this trial was not decided by Bragg. Not by Biden, not by Hochul, not by a Democrat, but A JURY - A JURY OF AVERAGE NEW YORKERS. THEY decided Trump was guilty. You can't claim this whole thing is a sham when 12 normal people sat and heard the evidence and saw Trump was guilty. It's just a completely asinine and ridiculous argument.

If this was Kathy Hochul deciding the verdict then sure, you could be ridiculous and claim it. But it's not. It's just pathetic

The average New Yorker, specifically Manhattanite, is overwhelmingly liberal. Not an objective panel, a bunch of left wing hacks. Their opinion means less than nothing to me and they deserve to be shamed for the rest of their lives.

Oh take your Fox News talking points and Stow them. The statistical odds of all 12 jurors not including a single Trump voter, let alone all Biden voters, is ridiculously low. Hell, one of the jurors got their news primarily from Trump social! You been need your defender of trump throughout this process, and are accordingly ignoring the overwhelming evidence that led to his conviction.

[mjba257]

If holding accountable a former president for his crimes is going to tear a country apart then this country isn't worth saving.

Easy to say that when you’re from a mess of a country like Greece where corrupt officials rarelt get held accountable and you don’t have as much to lose. We have a 250 year old democracy on the line.

Appeasing would be terrorists is probably not a good idea. There are other problems with your argument as well, but I'm going to bed.

Amazing how willing you are to apply that logic to the U.S., but not to Israel.

Lmfao. Many of us here are from corrupt countries abroad, therefore we frankly couldn't give a damn about the fake tears being spewing out from butthurt U.S. conservatives. And why is that may you ask? Because at least a semblance of accountability for the actions of whatever politicians do is possible here and not so much as back in our home countries

Yes, in India politicians get arrested all the time and that has not been good for India .

What's "not good for India" is that it has so many politicians who commit crimes in the first place, not that it holds those politicians accountable for their actions.

You can pick almost figure in public life and find something they did in their past that you could make a flimsy case out of. I forget who said it, but the quote is "Show me the person, I'll show you the crime". All you need is a biased judge and a venue with a jury pool so heavily tainted in one direction, you can get whatever you want, damn the constitution. The rubicon has been passed so now is open game on anyone in public life. Anything they've ever done, no matter how miniscule or trivial is fair game. Statute of limitations be damned.

Seriously, if you really wanted to take down Trump, why not go after him over Epstein? There you have a serious crime and substantial evidence to at least warrant an investigation. And no statute of limitations. Are you afraid pursuing that case may implicate somebody you like?

[Badger]

Jesus Christ. Why all the simping for two-tiered justice systems here? Seriously. The endless bootlicking for criminal politicians has become insufferable here. You hunch-backed weirdos all write this crap knowing full f#cking well that Joe Blow would be getting his ass rammed in prison right now if he committed one-tenth of the degree of crimes the likes of Nixon or Bush or Trump have committed.

There has to be a reason for it. Is it the same reason multiple users worship warmongers like Scoop Jackson or LBJ on here? Are we so ingrained in the doings of the political establishment that we do their propaganda work for them, in the hopes that one day we, too, might become like them or enjoy the same prestige? Do you want to sit with daddy in the big chair one day?

Is that all you’ve got? Do you seriously have nothing better to do than come and white knight for (legally and/or morally compromised) scumbag politicians? Are you the head of a nursery? Is that what you do? You are a child. You are a child. You are a child.

This isn’t about a two tiered justice system. This is about keeping the damn country together. Half of my posts on this forum are about how much I don’t like Trump and how I believe he’s a danger to democracy. I’ve made it very clear where I stand on him. My issue is that instead of being vulnerable and reaching out to people on the right, people on the left have a “better than you” attitude and instead chose to harass and name-call them, further emboldening people on the right to adopt a victim mentality (of which Trump is the ultimate representation). And people with that mentality will eventually use that mentality to justify physical violence. Does the rise in militia membership, constant social media dogwhistles, and the rescripting of the January 6 attack as a “patriotic demonstration,” not signal to you that what you’ve been doing for the past few years hasn’t been working?

Times of crisis require leaders to show courage and to do things that are unpopular. We’re approaching one of those crises again. Biden is the President- the most powerful person in the country, and he has to do something to demonstrate to all Americans, not just those on the left, that his commitment to keeping the country together is genuine. If he doesn’t, people on the right will turn to Trump, and the lord only knows what kind of ugly things Trump is willing to unleash on our country.

.... How is pardoning someone who committed 34 acts of criminal conduct and letting them off the hook, setting the precedent that presidents can do whatever they want, and be okay even if they are found guilty by a jury, "keeping the damn country together?"

I'm sorry but these takes are absolutely asinine. You don't keep the country together by letting criminals off the hook. You keep the country together by following the rule of law and showing that actions have consequences, just like they would for you and me.

Anyone that is pushing this argument is being incredibly disingenuous and deep down likes Trump. Sorry, but that's the truth.

George W. Bush literally ran a torture program and we never held him accountable. Barack Obama killed an American citizen with a drone strike without any due process, we never held him accountable. Bill Clinton has been credibly accused of numerous sex crimes, we never held him accountable. Reagan and Bush Sr. illegally sold weapons to Iran to fund a proxy war in Nicaragua without Congressional approval - never held accountable. Heck, Trump is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Yeminis due to funding Saudi Arabia's illegal war there. Yet nobody cares. But hush money to a porn star? THAT is when we start "holding power accountable"? No, it's a stupid joke and a waste of time. New York should be embarrassed with itself, perhaps that's why it's population is decreasing. The hypocrisy is enraging and you are a partisan hack. Period

None of this has anything to do with the other - so because a DA didn't press charges against any of those people for those specific situations we should just ... ignore when the next person does a crime? That literally makes no sense and you know it. These arguments are becoming so absolutely flimsy.

Once again - why should New York be embarassed? A JURY FOUND HIM GUILTY - clearly they didn't find it embarassing! It's wild that you're calling people partisan hacks for pointing out that a jury of 12 average New Yorkers found Trump guilty for a crime that he committed. That's embarrasing.

Florida, which is a far better state than New York, would never have brought this charge. Neither would Texas or any red state. Most purple states wouldn't have either.

It's not about the state, but the county where the offense occurred. And funny you didn't mention decidedly purple georgia, or the fact that charges were brought in federal court in red leaning Florida. The only way charges wouldn't have been brought is if you had local hackish Republicans like you who can't criticize, let alone oppose Trump and his malfeasance.

Thanks for playing, please don't try again.

[wbrocks67]

Glad to see outlets finally being honest about this.

[Holmes]

Republicans should be begging for jail time and then a scramble at the RNC to choose a different nominee. Instead they're risking it all for a convicted felon of all people. Shameless.

[mjba257]

Jesus Christ. Why all the simping for two-tiered justice systems here? Seriously. The endless bootlicking for criminal politicians has become insufferable here. You hunch-backed weirdos all write this crap knowing full f#cking well that Joe Blow would be getting his ass rammed in prison right now if he committed one-tenth of the degree of crimes the likes of Nixon or Bush or Trump have committed.

There has to be a reason for it. Is it the same reason multiple users worship warmongers like Scoop Jackson or LBJ on here? Are we so ingrained in the doings of the political establishment that we do their propaganda work for them, in the hopes that one day we, too, might become like them or enjoy the same prestige? Do you want to sit with daddy in the big chair one day?

Is that all you’ve got? Do you seriously have nothing better to do than come and white knight for (legally and/or morally compromised) scumbag politicians? Are you the head of a nursery? Is that what you do? You are a child. You are a child. You are a child.

This isn’t about a two tiered justice system. This is about keeping the damn country together. Half of my posts on this forum are about how much I don’t like Trump and how I believe he’s a danger to democracy. I’ve made it very clear where I stand on him. My issue is that instead of being vulnerable and reaching out to people on the right, people on the left have a “better than you” attitude and instead chose to harass and name-call them, further emboldening people on the right to adopt a victim mentality (of which Trump is the ultimate representation). And people with that mentality will eventually use that mentality to justify physical violence. Does the rise in militia membership, constant social media dogwhistles, and the rescripting of the January 6 attack as a “patriotic demonstration,” not signal to you that what you’ve been doing for the past few years hasn’t been working?

Times of crisis require leaders to show courage and to do things that are unpopular. We’re approaching one of those crises again. Biden is the President- the most powerful person in the country, and he has to do something to demonstrate to all Americans, not just those on the left, that his commitment to keeping the country together is genuine. If he doesn’t, people on the right will turn to Trump, and the lord only knows what kind of ugly things Trump is willing to unleash on our country.

.... How is pardoning someone who committed 34 acts of criminal conduct and letting them off the hook, setting the precedent that presidents can do whatever they want, and be okay even if they are found guilty by a jury, "keeping the damn country together?"

I'm sorry but these takes are absolutely asinine. You don't keep the country together by letting criminals off the hook. You keep the country together by following the rule of law and showing that actions have consequences, just like they would for you and me.

Anyone that is pushing this argument is being incredibly disingenuous and deep down likes Trump. Sorry, but that's the truth.

George W. Bush literally ran a torture program and we never held him accountable. Barack Obama killed an American citizen with a drone strike without any due process, we never held him accountable. Bill Clinton has been credibly accused of numerous sex crimes, we never held him accountable. Reagan and Bush Sr. illegally sold weapons to Iran to fund a proxy war in Nicaragua without Congressional approval - never held accountable. Heck, Trump is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Yeminis due to funding Saudi Arabia's illegal war there. Yet nobody cares. But hush money to a porn star? THAT is when we start "holding power accountable"? No, it's a stupid joke and a waste of time. New York should be embarrassed with itself, perhaps that's why it's population is decreasing. The hypocrisy is enraging and you are a partisan hack. Period

None of this has anything to do with the other - so because a DA didn't press charges against any of those people for those specific situations we should just ... ignore when the next person does a crime? That literally makes no sense and you know it. These arguments are becoming so absolutely flimsy.

Once again - why should New York be embarassed? A JURY FOUND HIM GUILTY - clearly they didn't find it embarassing! It's wild that you're calling people partisan hacks for pointing out that a jury of 12 average New Yorkers found Trump guilty for a crime that he committed. That's embarrasing.

Florida, which is a far better state than New York, would never have brought this charge. Neither would Texas or any red state. Most purple states wouldn't have either.

It's not about the state, but the county where the offense occurred. And funny you didn't mention decidedly purple georgia, or the fact that charges were brought in federal court in red leaning Florida. The only way charges wouldn't have been brought is if you had local hackish Republicans like you who can't criticize, let alone oppose Trump and his malfeasance.

Thanks for playing, please don't try again.

If I had jurisdiction, I'd totally go after Trump over Epstein. Without hesitation. Solid evidence, clear allegations of egregious misconduct. Of course, some pretty prominent Democrats and celebrities were also involved with Epstein, so they could be implicated, so maybe that's why some are so hesitant to go after him for that.

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

Send Elon Musk back to South Africa! (and keep him there)

[MasterJedi]

If holding accountable a former president for his crimes is going to tear a country apart then this country isn't worth saving.

Easy to say that when you’re from a mess of a country like Greece where corrupt officials rarelt get held accountable and you don’t have as much to lose. We have a 250 year old democracy on the line.

Appeasing would be terrorists is probably not a good idea. There are other problems with your argument as well, but I'm going to bed.

Amazing how willing you are to apply that logic to the U.S., but not to Israel.

Lmfao. Many of us here are from corrupt countries abroad, therefore we frankly couldn't give a damn about the fake tears being spewing out from butthurt U.S. conservatives. And why is that may you ask? Because at least a semblance of accountability for the actions of whatever politicians do is possible here and not so much as back in our home countries

Yes, in India politicians get arrested all the time and that has not been good for India .

Corruption in India is a lifestyle and occupation for many, nobody wants the US to be like India. But we need to arrest our crime families.

[emailking]

Is there a single court in the country where the party with the burden of persuasion doesn't get the last word? I've never heard of it being done the other way around

They way it's supposed to work because the prosecution has the burden of proof, they go first with closing arguments. The defense isn't even required to give a closing. But they go second so they know what to respond to and what points need to be refuted. The prosecution then has the option to give a rebuttal if they chose. It is NOT supposed to be the defense gives their closing first without knowing what the prosecution is going to say. New York has it backwards and this is absolutely something that should be appealed to SCOTUS.

In most jurisdictions though, the prosecution does get to go last, either because they get to give a rebuttal Closing Argument (no opportunity for defense to give a surrebuttal) or the defense doesn't give a Closing Argument. New York basically doesn't give them the first Closing Argument of the 3 that happen in most jurisdictions.

[Redban]

Damn, I was on a trip for 2 weeks and missed the conviction news when it happened (Yellowstone and Grand Tetons was worth it though)

I’m not surprised he got convicted of all counts. The E Jean Carroll verdict was a  foreshadowing that he was going to get his ass handed to him by a jury in NYC

From what I’ve seen anecdotally, Repubs seem to be standing with him, so I’m not sure what the political ramifications will be. Such a shame Repubs didn’t just nominate Haley and get away from this trouble though

[mjba257]

Damn, I was on a trip for 2 weeks and missed the conviction news when it happened (Yellowstone and Grand Tetons was worth it though)

I’m not surprised he got convicted of all counts. The E Jean Carroll verdict was a  foreshadowing that he was going to get his ass handed to him by a jury in NYC

From what I’ve seen anecdotally, Repubs seem to be standing with him, so I’m not sure what the political ramifications will be. Such a shame Repubs didn’t just nominate Haley and get away from this trouble though

[/b]

There's still a chance