Transgender woman charged with indecent exposure over Ohio YMCA incident

[DaleCooper]

If a woman sees an unexpected penis in the form of a dick pic from an evil cishet man it's an "act of violence" and "traumatic".

If a woman sees an unexpected penis in the form of a no-op transwoman in a locker room then she's just a prude and bigot if she doesn't like it.

One is getting a dick pic unwanted and for no reason out of the blue

The other is somewhere one could reasonably expect that to happen.

Why are all these conservatives acting like a penis is the most horrifying thing on the planet earth

This would be true if they were at a nude beach or some hippy nature resort, but they were in the women's locker room. The whole appeal of a women's locker room is that it is not a place where someone could reasonably expect to see a dick, lmao.

[John Dule]

Why are all these conservatives acting like a penis is the most horrifying thing on the planet earth

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

Why are all these conservatives acting like a penis is the most horrifying thing on the planet earth

Well that’s just a disgusting bad faith thing.

[John Dule]

Well that’s just a disgusting bad faith thing.

You're the one who said the quote. I merely recontextualized it so you could understand just how disgusting it is.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

Well that’s just a disgusting bad faith thing.

You're the one who said the quote. I merely recontextualized it so you could understand just how disgusting it is.

How is accidentally seeing a penis in a context where that could happen the same thing as someone raping you. For god sake have none of you heard of gyms. Not everyone wears underwear all the time at them and things can occasionally slip out. If you’re in a changing room where people are fully undressing you’re going to see genitals.

[7,052,770]

For god sake have none of you heard of gyms. Not everyone wears underwear all the time at them and things can occasionally slip out. If you’re in a changing room where people are fully undressing you’re going to see genitals.

We can build a better world where private stalls are available in all gyms so this isn't an issue, trans or not. Lots of people of all orientations and identities just don't want to see other people's junk or have theirs seen by others.

[John Dule]

Well that’s just a disgusting bad faith thing.

You're the one who said the quote. I merely recontextualized it so you could understand just how disgusting it is.

How is accidentally seeing a penis in a context where that could happen the same thing as someone raping you. For god sake have none of you heard of gyms. Not everyone wears underwear all the time at them and things can occasionally slip out. If you’re in a changing room where people are fully undressing you’re going to see genitals.

... And the point of segregating changing rooms by gender is so you don't have people of the opposite sex pulling their genitals out in front of you. This was a concept that was recently understood quite universally, you might be surprised to learn.

[DaleCooper]

For god sake have none of you heard of gyms. Not everyone wears underwear all the time at them and things can occasionally slip out. If you’re in a changing room where people are fully undressing you’re going to see genitals.

We can build a better world where private stalls are available in all gyms so this isn't an issue, trans or not. Lots of people of all orientations and identities just don't want to see other people's junk or have theirs seen by others.

This is a red herring. There have been awkward nerds scared of showing their junk in the locker room for generations. These women are not upset that they saw a naked person, they're upset that a dick was in their locker room while they were trying to change. It's frankly disrespectful to conflate that with the dork who refused to shower after gym class.

[ingemann]

The Venn diagram between men and women barely touches each other, so pretending that everyone can't see that a person like Lia Thomas who was in the start of his treatment is born male is ridiculous.

You can certainly tell that Lia Thomas was born male (in part because it is a matter of public record now), but there are cisgender woman who look quite similar to Thomas and definitely those who look similarly masculine. That’s my point.

No there's not at least not in any significant amount, I come from the region with the tallest women in the world, I have never seen a single woman as masculine looking as Lia Thomas. Maybe you can find the three women, who look like Lia Thomas in the world, but in such a case they suffer from a medical condition, and I'm 100% sure that not a single cis woman looks like Lia Thomas naked.  

[ingemann]

If a woman sees an unexpected penis in the form of a dick pic from an evil cishet man it's an "act of violence" and "traumatic".

If a woman sees an unexpected penis in the form of a no-op transwoman in a locker room then she's just a prude and bigot if she doesn't like it.

The difference, of course, is that when someone sends an unsolicited dick pic to someone, it's inherently sexual and non-consensual because it's unsolicited. Being naked in a locker room is usually more acceptable. Also, I don't know how transwomen usually behave in locker rooms, but I can't imagine many of them walk around intentionally flaunting their penis. If they do, then that's a crime that a cis male would also face if he did that in a men's locker room. But I've been in locker rooms with plenty of cis men who do not flaunt their penises.

You're equating a crime to a person just existing. They aren't the same.

From the description in the article this woman, stood with her back to the locker so that her junk could be seen by the entire locker room.

[world.execute(me)]

I think the serious risk of sexual harassment and violence to trans women if we use the men's changing rooms is more important than cis women not having to see trans women changing and minding their own business, but what do I know.

[SteveRogers]

If a woman sees an unexpected penis in the form of a dick pic from an evil cishet man it's an "act of violence" and "traumatic".

If a woman sees an unexpected penis in the form of a no-op transwoman in a locker room then she's just a prude and bigot if she doesn't like it.

The difference, of course, is that when someone sends an unsolicited dick pic to someone, it's inherently sexual and non-consensual because it's unsolicited. Being naked in a locker room is usually more acceptable. Also, I don't know how transwomen usually behave in locker rooms, but I can't imagine many of them walk around intentionally flaunting their penis. If they do, then that's a crime that a cis male would also face if he did that in a men's locker room. But I've been in locker rooms with plenty of cis men who do not flaunt their penises.

You're equating a crime to a person just existing. They aren't the same.

From the description in the article this woman, stood with her back to the locker so that her junk could be seen by the entire locker room.

The article doesn’t give a description of much of anything. We do not know how long the suspect was “facing away” from her locker. We don’t know what she was doing at the time. Now, there may be more facts in the police report that we’re not privy to (e.g. were they parading around the locker room or making lewd gestures towards their genitals? That would certainly change the calculation).

But let’s stick with what we know. She faced away from her locker at some point for an unknown amount of time and someone saw their penis and reported the incident. Are those facts alone sufficient to constitute a crime? And does the answer depend on whether the suspect has a penis or a vagina? Because lots of people in locker rooms inadvertently turn around while changing, and I’m pretty sure you don’t actually believe they should all be arrested and charged with indecent exposure.

[Ferguson97]

Conservatives here are seriously arguing that she should have to go into the men's locker room, and that she will not be at risk of being sexually harassed or assaulted.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

I think the serious risk of sexual harassment and violence to trans women if we use the men's changing rooms is more important than cis women not having to see trans women changing and minding their own business, but what do I know.

[John Dule]

I think the serious risk of sexual harassment and violence to trans women if we use the men's changing rooms is more important than cis women not having to see trans women changing and minding their own business, but what do I know.

Wait, so are we allowed to insinuate that certain groups of people are more likely to commit sexual assault now? Just trying to keep up.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

I think the serious risk of sexual harassment and violence to trans women if we use the men's changing rooms is more important than cis women not having to see trans women changing and minding their own business, but what do I know.

Wait, so are we allowed to insinuate that certain groups of people are more likely to commit sexual assault now? Just trying to keep up.

Have you ever read any crime statistics ever

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

I think the serious risk of sexual harassment and violence to trans women if we use the men's changing rooms is more important than cis women not having to see trans women changing and minding their own business, but what do I know.

Wait, so are we allowed to insinuate that certain groups of people are more likely to commit sexual assault now? Just trying to keep up.

Why are all your posts like this recently? Obnoxious to the core. And then you had the nerve to insinuate Scarlet argues in bad faith. Smh.

[John Dule]

I think the serious risk of sexual harassment and violence to trans women if we use the men's changing rooms is more important than cis women not having to see trans women changing and minding their own business, but what do I know.

Wait, so are we allowed to insinuate that certain groups of people are more likely to commit sexual assault now? Just trying to keep up.

Have you ever read any crime statistics ever

Why, yes I have.

[They not like us]

I think the serious risk of sexual harassment and violence to trans women if we use the men's changing rooms is more important than cis women not having to see trans women changing and minding their own business, but what do I know.

Wait, so are we allowed to insinuate that certain groups of people are more likely to commit sexual assault now? Just trying to keep up.

Have you ever read any crime statistics ever

Why, yes I have.

Ah yes, I have this study here conducted by the National Institute of Everyone But Me Is Wrong that says that you, sir, are in fact wrong.

[world.execute(me)]

I think the serious risk of sexual harassment and violence to trans women if we use the men's changing rooms is more important than cis women not having to see trans women changing and minding their own business, but what do I know.

Wait, so are we allowed to insinuate that certain groups of people are more likely to commit sexual assault now? Just trying to keep up.

Have you ever read any crime statistics ever

Why, yes I have.

A. That's a terf site. B. Even if those statistics are true they don't say anywhere near as much as you think they do.

[7,052,770]

For god sake have none of you heard of gyms. Not everyone wears underwear all the time at them and things can occasionally slip out. If you’re in a changing room where people are fully undressing you’re going to see genitals.

We can build a better world where private stalls are available in all gyms so this isn't an issue, trans or not. Lots of people of all orientations and identities just don't want to see other people's junk or have theirs seen by others.

This is a red herring. There have been awkward nerds scared of showing their junk in the locker room for generations. These women are not upset that they saw a naked person, they're upset that a dick was in their locker room while they were trying to change. It's frankly disrespectful to conflate that with the dork who refused to shower after gym class.

Do you not see any inconsistency in your angry and adamant defense of women who don't want to see unsolicited penes, but an equally angry adamant tone against men who feel the same way?

Like wherever you grew up had group showers at school and that's what you're used to, but that certainly wasn't the case where I grew up, and it's totally valid that some people prefer a different level of modesty than others. I'm not even saying that opening changing rooms should be banned, just that the option of stalls should be there. The fact that this solutoon can solve the issue from the OP without resorting to transphobia or exclusion is a happy bonus.

[emailking]

For god sake have none of you heard of gyms. Not everyone wears underwear all the time at them and things can occasionally slip out. If you’re in a changing room where people are fully undressing you’re going to see genitals.

We can build a better world where private stalls are available in all gyms so this isn't an issue, trans or not. Lots of people of all orientations and identities just don't want to see other people's junk or have theirs seen by others.

That's where I am. I can handle anyone's genitals but I'd rather not see anyone's genitals. And I definitely don't want strangers seeing mine.

[John Dule]

I think the serious risk of sexual harassment and violence to trans women if we use the men's changing rooms is more important than cis women not having to see trans women changing and minding their own business, but what do I know.

Wait, so are we allowed to insinuate that certain groups of people are more likely to commit sexual assault now? Just trying to keep up.

Have you ever read any crime statistics ever

Why, yes I have.

A. That's a terf site. B. Even if those statistics are true they don't say anywhere near as much as you think they do.

"Lol"

[DaleCooper]

For god sake have none of you heard of gyms. Not everyone wears underwear all the time at them and things can occasionally slip out. If you’re in a changing room where people are fully undressing you’re going to see genitals.

We can build a better world where private stalls are available in all gyms so this isn't an issue, trans or not. Lots of people of all orientations and identities just don't want to see other people's junk or have theirs seen by others.

This is a red herring. There have been awkward nerds scared of showing their junk in the locker room for generations. These women are not upset that they saw a naked person, they're upset that a dick was in their locker room while they were trying to change. It's frankly disrespectful to conflate that with the dork who refused to shower after gym class.

Do you not see any inconsistency in your angry and adamant defense of women who don't want to see unsolicited penes, but an equally angry adamant tone against men who feel the same way?

Like wherever you grew up had group showers at school and that's what you're used to, but that certainly wasn't the case where I grew up, and it's totally valid that some people prefer a different level of modesty than others. I'm not even saying that opening changing rooms should be banned, just that the option of stalls should be there. The fact that this solutoon can solve the issue from the OP without resorting to transphobia or exclusion is a happy bonus.

No, I don't see any inconsistency because these issues are not even remotely close to the same. The kid from Freaks & Geeks being afraid to let his peers see his ass in the shower is not even in the same ballpark as women entering a women's locker room, undressing, and then turning around to see a naked male standing in front of them. It's outrageous to pretend that these issues are similar.

Stalls won't even be relevant or helpful here because they would still need to be in a separate unisex area so that the women in the locker room wouldn't have to worry about it. Again, it's not just the nudity, it's the presence of people who look indistinguishable from men being in the locker room with women who are there specifically for privacy. And that's almost certainly going to be transphobic by the definition of most people here.

That's why I am being rude and dismissive of your locker room stall commentary. If you just said in an apolitical thread for random musings that you hate locker rooms, I wouldn't think twice about it, but you're coming into a thread about indecent exposure and trying to compare it to weird changing room anxiety. It's a completely unrelated distraction that has absolutely nothing to do with this whole incident.

[7,052,770]

For god sake have none of you heard of gyms. Not everyone wears underwear all the time at them and things can occasionally slip out. If you’re in a changing room where people are fully undressing you’re going to see genitals.

We can build a better world where private stalls are available in all gyms so this isn't an issue, trans or not. Lots of people of all orientations and identities just don't want to see other people's junk or have theirs seen by others.

This is a red herring. There have been awkward nerds scared of showing their junk in the locker room for generations. These women are not upset that they saw a naked person, they're upset that a dick was in their locker room while they were trying to change. It's frankly disrespectful to conflate that with the dork who refused to shower after gym class.

Do you not see any inconsistency in your angry and adamant defense of women who don't want to see unsolicited penes, but an equally angry adamant tone against men who feel the same way?

Like wherever you grew up had group showers at school and that's what you're used to, but that certainly wasn't the case where I grew up, and it's totally valid that some people prefer a different level of modesty than others. I'm not even saying that opening changing rooms should be banned, just that the option of stalls should be there. The fact that this solutoon can solve the issue from the OP without resorting to transphobia or exclusion is a happy bonus.

No, I don't see any inconsistency because these issues are not even remotely close to the same. The kid from Freaks & Geeks being afraid to let his peers see his ass in the shower is not even in the same ballpark as women entering a women's locker room, undressing, and then turning around to see a naked male standing in front of them. It's outrageous to pretend that these issues are similar.

Stalls won't even be relevant or helpful here because they would still need to be in a separate unisex area so that the women in the locker room wouldn't have to worry about it. Again, it's not just the nudity, it's the presence of people who look indistinguishable from men being in the locker room with women who are there specifically for privacy. And that's almost certainly going to be transphobic by the definition of most people here.

That's why I am being rude and dismissive of your locker room stall commentary. If you just said in an apolitical thread for random musings that you hate locker rooms, I wouldn't think twice about it, but you're coming into a thread about indecent exposure and trying to compare it to weird changing room anxiety. It's a completely unrelated distraction that has absolutely nothing to do with this whole incident.

You seem to still be missing the key context here. What you are used to from your life is weird to me, and apparently what I've experienced my whole life is weird to you. I don't "hate locker rooms," I've just never been in one where men are getting totally naked in the open. Certainly not in a school setting ever, or at a gym as an adult either.

Maybe it's a South vs. Midwest thing, or something more granular, I don't know. If not for this forum, I probably never would have known how many people don't see anything strange about not having private changing areas.

It's very odd how defensive some people get about this topic. People have different experiences and preferences. Why the anger?