Transgender woman charged with indecent exposure over Ohio YMCA incident

[Alben Barkley]

https://nypost.com/2023/02/02/transgender-woman-charged-with-indecent-exposure-over-ymca-locker-room-incident/

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

As I said previously: I can’t imagine what this woman must be going through. Imagine facing criminal charges and being plastered all over the news for being nude in a locker room.

[ingemann]

It seems good that such a case will end up in the courts, so a precedence will be set whichever way it will end up. I really hope for the Democrats that this woman will end up losing.

[DaleCooper]

As I said previously: I can’t imagine what this woman must be going through. Imagine facing criminal charges and being plastered all over the news for being nude in a locker room.

Well, that's one way to read this story.

[KaiserDave]

It seems good that such a case will end up in the courts, so a precedence will be set whichever way it will end up. I really hope for the Democrats that this woman will end up losing.

I for one, am tired of this framing. First all, I think trying to make this about electoral politics, or some extremely speculative high-court decision is sort of ridiculous. If a crime was committed, hopefully it will be prosecuted with rigor, but I doubt we will hear very much more from this in the press. Sex crimes happen across the country all of the time it's very horrible. Don't know why this one specifically is here on USGD.

But I will say something on the issue of Democrats, and elections, because it was brought up. This notion that Trans Rights is some massive electoral albatross is not sustained by reality. In 2016, the NCGOP tied their fates to an absurd, widely-ridiculed Trans Bathroom Bill, and Roy Cooper was elected on a program of repealing that law. In 2022, Republicans just about everywhere ran on demonizing Trans Americans and railing about "gender ideology" in the schools, and in their inspired wisdom decided to make "the integrity of women's sports" a big campaign issue. In 2022, Republicans went down to defeat in a cataclysmic fashion. Herschel Walker ran an ad during the runoff period in Georgia with a female athlete (who wasn't even from Georgia) complaining about how her win in swimming was stolen or whatever. It was a totally pathetic ad in an aimless, doomed campaign, and he wasn't the only one. Walker, Tudor Dixon, Doug Mastriano, and others who tried to make Trans Rights a campaign issue were defeated by Democrats who didn't hedge on the issue, and made clear they supported basic rights and dignity for all their constituents. Andy Beshear vetoed a Trans Sports Bill and he seems to be in a strong position to win re-election, but we'll see. I suspect that if Republicans try to make Trans Rights a campaign issue again, they will once again be perceived as out-of-touch weirdos by the moderate middle, most of whom are perfectly content to live and let live.

[Skunk]

Your obsession with trans people has become borderline psychotic. Stop clogging the US General boards with your garbage and go seek therapy.

[ingemann]

It seems good that such a case will end up in the courts, so a precedence will be set whichever way it will end up. I really hope for the Democrats that this woman will end up losing.

I for one, am tired of this framing. First all, I think trying to make this about electoral politics, or some extremely speculative high-court decision is sort of ridiculous. If a crime was committed, hopefully it will be prosecuted with rigor, but I doubt we will hear very much more from this in the press. Sex crimes happen across the country all of the time it's very horrible. Don't know why this one specifically is here on USGD.

But I will say something on the issue of Democrats, and elections, because it was brought up. This notion that Trans Rights is some massive electoral albatross is not sustained by reality. In 2016, the NCGOP tied their fates to an absurd, widely-ridiculed Trans Bathroom Bill, and Roy Cooper was elected on a program of repealing that law. In 2022, Republicans just about everywhere ran on demonizing Trans Americans and railing about "gender ideology" in the schools, and in their inspired wisdom decided to make "the integrity of women's sports" a big campaign issue. In 2022, Republicans went down to defeat in a cataclysmic fashion. Herschel Walker ran an ad during the runoff period in Georgia with a female athlete (who wasn't even from Georgia) complaining about how her win in swimming was stolen or whatever. It was a totally pathetic ad in an aimless, doomed campaign, and he wasn't the only one. Walker, Tudor Dixon, Doug Mastriano, and others who tried to make Trans Rights a campaign issue were defeated by Democrats who didn't hedge on the issue, and made clear they supported basic rights and dignity for all their constituents. I suspect that if Republicans try to make Trans Rights a campaign issue again, they will once again be perceived as out-of-touch weirdos by the moderate middle, most of whom are perfectly content to live and let live.

I agree, it’s not necessary an albatross… but only as long as Democrats don’t make it an albatross. This woman was from we can read here physically very much still a man, if the courts decides that she have a right to use the same locker room as cis-women, they will have de facto abolished gendered locker rooms, which I suspect will result in a backlash. The failure of the mainstream Republican candidates to start a trans-panic in 2016 was very much connected to no one really pushing a strong pro-transgender narrative at the time. The discussion at the time was also about restrooms not locker rooms, and honestly the only reason we have separate restrooms is because of urinals, there’s no reason why men and women couldn’t use the same restrooms, locker rooms on the other hand are closely connected to being naked and therefore you will get a much stronger reaction to transwomen getting access to it.

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

As we all know there's no better source on incidents relating to trans people than trashy transphobic tabloids

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

It seems good that such a case will end up in the courts, so a precedence will be set whichever way it will end up. I really hope for the Democrats that this woman will end up losing.

I for one, am tired of this framing. First all, I think trying to make this about electoral politics, or some extremely speculative high-court decision is sort of ridiculous. If a crime was committed, hopefully it will be prosecuted with rigor, but I doubt we will hear very much more from this in the press. Sex crimes happen across the country all of the time it's very horrible. Don't know why this one specifically is here on USGD.

But I will say something on the issue of Democrats, and elections, because it was brought up. This notion that Trans Rights is some massive electoral albatross is not sustained by reality. In 2016, the NCGOP tied their fates to an absurd, widely-ridiculed Trans Bathroom Bill, and Roy Cooper was elected on a program of repealing that law. In 2022, Republicans just about everywhere ran on demonizing Trans Americans and railing about "gender ideology" in the schools, and in their inspired wisdom decided to make "the integrity of women's sports" a big campaign issue. In 2022, Republicans went down to defeat in a cataclysmic fashion. Herschel Walker ran an ad during the runoff period in Georgia with a female athlete (who wasn't even from Georgia) complaining about how her win in swimming was stolen or whatever. It was a totally pathetic ad in an aimless, doomed campaign, and he wasn't the only one. Walker, Tudor Dixon, Doug Mastriano, and others who tried to make Trans Rights a campaign issue were defeated by Democrats who didn't hedge on the issue, and made clear they supported basic rights and dignity for all their constituents. I suspect that if Republicans try to make Trans Rights a campaign issue again, they will once again be perceived as out-of-touch weirdos by the moderate middle, most of whom are perfectly content to live and let live.

I agree, it’s not necessary an albatross… but only as long as Democrats don’t make it an albatross. This woman was from we can read here physically very much still a man, if the courts decides that she have a right to use the same locker room as cis-women, they will have de facto abolished gendered locker rooms, which I suspect will result in a backlash. The failure of the mainstream Republican candidates to start a trans-panic in 2016 was very much connected to no one really pushing a strong pro-transgender narrative at the time. The discussion at the time was also about restrooms not locker rooms, and honestly the only reason we have separate restrooms is because of urinals, there’s no reason why men and women couldn’t use the same restrooms, locker rooms on the other hand are closely connected to being naked and therefore you will get a much stronger reaction to transwomen getting access to it.

What about the fact that homosexual men and women exist? Doesn't that put a giant hole in the argument that we have gendered locker rooms to protect the 'innocence' of the genders or whatever? I have absolutely zero attraction to the female body, so really you'd think it would be smarter to put gay men in the womens locker room following that logic... Of course like 98% of people I'm also not a creep and literally just wish to use a locker room to change and leave (I hate them any way and usually find somewhere private to change instead).

[emailking]

Isn't this the 3rd time you've posted this now in 3 days?

[SteveRogers]

It seems good that such a case will end up in the courts, so a precedence will be set whichever way it will end up. I really hope for the Democrats that this woman will end up losing.

I for one, am tired of this framing. First all, I think trying to make this about electoral politics, or some extremely speculative high-court decision is sort of ridiculous. If a crime was committed, hopefully it will be prosecuted with rigor, but I doubt we will hear very much more from this in the press. Sex crimes happen across the country all of the time it's very horrible. Don't know why this one specifically is here on USGD.

But I will say something on the issue of Democrats, and elections, because it was brought up. This notion that Trans Rights is some massive electoral albatross is not sustained by reality. In 2016, the NCGOP tied their fates to an absurd, widely-ridiculed Trans Bathroom Bill, and Roy Cooper was elected on a program of repealing that law. In 2022, Republicans just about everywhere ran on demonizing Trans Americans and railing about "gender ideology" in the schools, and in their inspired wisdom decided to make "the integrity of women's sports" a big campaign issue. In 2022, Republicans went down to defeat in a cataclysmic fashion. Herschel Walker ran an ad during the runoff period in Georgia with a female athlete (who wasn't even from Georgia) complaining about how her win in swimming was stolen or whatever. It was a totally pathetic ad in an aimless, doomed campaign, and he wasn't the only one. Walker, Tudor Dixon, Doug Mastriano, and others who tried to make Trans Rights a campaign issue were defeated by Democrats who didn't hedge on the issue, and made clear they supported basic rights and dignity for all their constituents. I suspect that if Republicans try to make Trans Rights a campaign issue again, they will once again be perceived as out-of-touch weirdos by the moderate middle, most of whom are perfectly content to live and let live.

I agree, it’s not necessary an albatross… but only as long as Democrats don’t make it an albatross. This woman was from we can read here physically very much still a man, if the courts decides that she have a right to use the same locker room as cis-women, they will have de facto abolished gendered locker rooms, which I suspect will result in a backlash. The failure of the mainstream Republican candidates to start a trans-panic in 2016 was very much connected to no one really pushing a strong pro-transgender narrative at the time. The discussion at the time was also about restrooms not locker rooms, and honestly the only reason we have separate restrooms is because of urinals, there’s no reason why men and women couldn’t use the same restrooms, locker rooms on the other hand are closely connected to being naked and therefore you will get a much stronger reaction to transwomen getting access to it.

The YMCA are the ones who decided that trans women have the right to use the same locker room as cis women. There’s no question there for the courts to decide. So unless there are additional facts about this case that are not clear from the article that’s been thrice posted, the criminal charges here make little sense.

[DaleCooper]

It seems good that such a case will end up in the courts, so a precedence will be set whichever way it will end up. I really hope for the Democrats that this woman will end up losing.

I for one, am tired of this framing. First all, I think trying to make this about electoral politics, or some extremely speculative high-court decision is sort of ridiculous. If a crime was committed, hopefully it will be prosecuted with rigor, but I doubt we will hear very much more from this in the press. Sex crimes happen across the country all of the time it's very horrible. Don't know why this one specifically is here on USGD.

But I will say something on the issue of Democrats, and elections, because it was brought up. This notion that Trans Rights is some massive electoral albatross is not sustained by reality. In 2016, the NCGOP tied their fates to an absurd, widely-ridiculed Trans Bathroom Bill, and Roy Cooper was elected on a program of repealing that law. In 2022, Republicans just about everywhere ran on demonizing Trans Americans and railing about "gender ideology" in the schools, and in their inspired wisdom decided to make "the integrity of women's sports" a big campaign issue. In 2022, Republicans went down to defeat in a cataclysmic fashion. Herschel Walker ran an ad during the runoff period in Georgia with a female athlete (who wasn't even from Georgia) complaining about how her win in swimming was stolen or whatever. It was a totally pathetic ad in an aimless, doomed campaign, and he wasn't the only one. Walker, Tudor Dixon, Doug Mastriano, and others who tried to make Trans Rights a campaign issue were defeated by Democrats who didn't hedge on the issue, and made clear they supported basic rights and dignity for all their constituents. I suspect that if Republicans try to make Trans Rights a campaign issue again, they will once again be perceived as out-of-touch weirdos by the moderate middle, most of whom are perfectly content to live and let live.

I agree, it’s not necessary an albatross… but only as long as Democrats don’t make it an albatross. This woman was from we can read here physically very much still a man, if the courts decides that she have a right to use the same locker room as cis-women, they will have de facto abolished gendered locker rooms, which I suspect will result in a backlash. The failure of the mainstream Republican candidates to start a trans-panic in 2016 was very much connected to no one really pushing a strong pro-transgender narrative at the time. The discussion at the time was also about restrooms not locker rooms, and honestly the only reason we have separate restrooms is because of urinals, there’s no reason why men and women couldn’t use the same restrooms, locker rooms on the other hand are closely connected to being naked and therefore you will get a much stronger reaction to transwomen getting access to it.

What about the fact that homosexual men and women exist? Doesn't that put a giant hole in the argument that we have gendered locker rooms to protect the 'innocence' of the genders or whatever? I have absolutely zero attraction to the female body, so really you'd think it would be smarter to put gay men in the womens locker room following that logic... Of course like 98% of people I'm also not a creep and literally just wish to use a locker room to change and leave (I hate them any way and usually find somewhere private to change instead).

It has nothing to do with sexuality or innocence. The whole issue is that these women were under the impression that by using a women's facility they would not be exposed to males while changing, and they were. Whether you are sympathetic to that or not is a different question. Generally speaking, someone's answer to that question will indicate how they'll respond to a story like this.

[ingemann]

It seems good that such a case will end up in the courts, so a precedence will be set whichever way it will end up. I really hope for the Democrats that this woman will end up losing.

I for one, am tired of this framing. First all, I think trying to make this about electoral politics, or some extremely speculative high-court decision is sort of ridiculous. If a crime was committed, hopefully it will be prosecuted with rigor, but I doubt we will hear very much more from this in the press. Sex crimes happen across the country all of the time it's very horrible. Don't know why this one specifically is here on USGD.

But I will say something on the issue of Democrats, and elections, because it was brought up. This notion that Trans Rights is some massive electoral albatross is not sustained by reality. In 2016, the NCGOP tied their fates to an absurd, widely-ridiculed Trans Bathroom Bill, and Roy Cooper was elected on a program of repealing that law. In 2022, Republicans just about everywhere ran on demonizing Trans Americans and railing about "gender ideology" in the schools, and in their inspired wisdom decided to make "the integrity of women's sports" a big campaign issue. In 2022, Republicans went down to defeat in a cataclysmic fashion. Herschel Walker ran an ad during the runoff period in Georgia with a female athlete (who wasn't even from Georgia) complaining about how her win in swimming was stolen or whatever. It was a totally pathetic ad in an aimless, doomed campaign, and he wasn't the only one. Walker, Tudor Dixon, Doug Mastriano, and others who tried to make Trans Rights a campaign issue were defeated by Democrats who didn't hedge on the issue, and made clear they supported basic rights and dignity for all their constituents. I suspect that if Republicans try to make Trans Rights a campaign issue again, they will once again be perceived as out-of-touch weirdos by the moderate middle, most of whom are perfectly content to live and let live.

I agree, it’s not necessary an albatross… but only as long as Democrats don’t make it an albatross. This woman was from we can read here physically very much still a man, if the courts decides that she have a right to use the same locker room as cis-women, they will have de facto abolished gendered locker rooms, which I suspect will result in a backlash. The failure of the mainstream Republican candidates to start a trans-panic in 2016 was very much connected to no one really pushing a strong pro-transgender narrative at the time. The discussion at the time was also about restrooms not locker rooms, and honestly the only reason we have separate restrooms is because of urinals, there’s no reason why men and women couldn’t use the same restrooms, locker rooms on the other hand are closely connected to being naked and therefore you will get a much stronger reaction to transwomen getting access to it.

What about the fact that homosexual men and women exist? Doesn't that put a giant hole in the argument that we have gendered locker rooms to protect the 'innocence' of the genders or whatever? I have absolutely zero attraction to the female body, so really you'd think it would be smarter to put gay men in the womens locker room following that logic... Of course like 98% of people I'm also not a creep and literally just wish to use a locker room to change and leave (I hate them any way and usually find somewhere private to change instead).

Gendered locker rooms doesn’t exist for the sake of men at least not in a Western context, they exist so that women can have a safe space from men, when they’re naked. You’re welcome to think they’re silly geese, but women clearly do not want to share locker room with men or people who visually looks like men, and I think we should respect that.

As for gay men in men’s locker rooms, I have never cared about it.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

It seems good that such a case will end up in the courts, so a precedence will be set whichever way it will end up. I really hope for the Democrats that this woman will end up losing.

I for one, am tired of this framing. First all, I think trying to make this about electoral politics, or some extremely speculative high-court decision is sort of ridiculous. If a crime was committed, hopefully it will be prosecuted with rigor, but I doubt we will hear very much more from this in the press. Sex crimes happen across the country all of the time it's very horrible. Don't know why this one specifically is here on USGD.

But I will say something on the issue of Democrats, and elections, because it was brought up. This notion that Trans Rights is some massive electoral albatross is not sustained by reality. In 2016, the NCGOP tied their fates to an absurd, widely-ridiculed Trans Bathroom Bill, and Roy Cooper was elected on a program of repealing that law. In 2022, Republicans just about everywhere ran on demonizing Trans Americans and railing about "gender ideology" in the schools, and in their inspired wisdom decided to make "the integrity of women's sports" a big campaign issue. In 2022, Republicans went down to defeat in a cataclysmic fashion. Herschel Walker ran an ad during the runoff period in Georgia with a female athlete (who wasn't even from Georgia) complaining about how her win in swimming was stolen or whatever. It was a totally pathetic ad in an aimless, doomed campaign, and he wasn't the only one. Walker, Tudor Dixon, Doug Mastriano, and others who tried to make Trans Rights a campaign issue were defeated by Democrats who didn't hedge on the issue, and made clear they supported basic rights and dignity for all their constituents. I suspect that if Republicans try to make Trans Rights a campaign issue again, they will once again be perceived as out-of-touch weirdos by the moderate middle, most of whom are perfectly content to live and let live.

I agree, it’s not necessary an albatross… but only as long as Democrats don’t make it an albatross. This woman was from we can read here physically very much still a man, if the courts decides that she have a right to use the same locker room as cis-women, they will have de facto abolished gendered locker rooms, which I suspect will result in a backlash. The failure of the mainstream Republican candidates to start a trans-panic in 2016 was very much connected to no one really pushing a strong pro-transgender narrative at the time. The discussion at the time was also about restrooms not locker rooms, and honestly the only reason we have separate restrooms is because of urinals, there’s no reason why men and women couldn’t use the same restrooms, locker rooms on the other hand are closely connected to being naked and therefore you will get a much stronger reaction to transwomen getting access to it.

What about the fact that homosexual men and women exist? Doesn't that put a giant hole in the argument that we have gendered locker rooms to protect the 'innocence' of the genders or whatever? I have absolutely zero attraction to the female body, so really you'd think it would be smarter to put gay men in the womens locker room following that logic... Of course like 98% of people I'm also not a creep and literally just wish to use a locker room to change and leave (I hate them any way and usually find somewhere private to change instead).

It has nothing to do with sexuality or innocence. The whole issue is that these women were under the impression that by using a women's facility they would not be exposed to males while changing, and they were. Whether you are sympathetic to that or not is a different question. Generally speaking, someone's answer to that question will indicate how they'll respond to a story like this.

I wasn't talking about the incident in question, I was talking about locker rooms in general.

To be honest I'd prefer private stalls like they have at most amusement parks.

[7,052,770]

Did we really need another thread about this same topic?

Like, this is the same case, an Ohio transwoman named Rachel, and just a few days later. What more do any of us have to say?

[Pres Mike]

Absolutely disgusting. Hope he’s jailed. No one with a d*** has any business in a female lockers room

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

I don’t understand how she could possibly be charged with indecent exposure.

It sounds like the Y has an explicit policy of people of any gender being able to use any locker room.  So regardless of how you feel about transgender people, all people should be using the locker room aware that they might see naked people of any gender. So a transwoman naked in the woman’s locker room is no more indecent than a cis woman, but also neither is a cis man.  They all have permission from the owners to be naked in either locker room.

[T'Chenka]

They all have permission from the owners to be naked in either locker room.

That's unacceptable to a lot of Republican voters. Policy needs to be "the business can decide (if they agree with us)" or "the government decides (if the government agrees with us)". Anything short of "heads I win, tails you lose" is absolutely unacceptable to them.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

They all have permission from the owners to be naked in either locker room.

That's unacceptable to a lot of Republican voters. Policy needs to be "the business can decide (if they agree with us)" or "the government decides (if the government agrees with us)". Anything short of "heads I win, tails you lose" is absolutely unacceptable to them.

"Hypocrisy" is everywhere in politics, from left, to right, to center. What's new?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Isn't this the 3rd time you've posted this now in 3 days?

Only reason Alben has done so was because of what looks like a misunderstanding with the mods, which led to them deleting the past two times.
I don't think, considering this is USGD, there's much room for anyone to act holier than thou here. (Me included)

[T'Chenka]

They all have permission from the owners to be naked in either locker room.

That's unacceptable to a lot of Republican voters. Policy needs to be "the business can decide (if they agree with us)" or "the government decides (if the government agrees with us)". Anything short of "heads I win, tails you lose" is absolutely unacceptable to them.

"Hypocrisy" is everywhere in politics, from left, to right, to center. What's new?

Your post here is normalizing Republican hypocrisy with "both sides do it". All evidence does NOT suggest that the left / Dem politicians, voters, pundits, etc are generally exhibiting comparable levels of hypocrisy. Obviously your statement is literally factually correct, but the subtext couldn't be further from the truth. The GOP and their base are on an entirely different level of hypocrisy.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

They all have permission from the owners to be naked in either locker room.

That's unacceptable to a lot of Republican voters. Policy needs to be "the business can decide (if they agree with us)" or "the government decides (if the government agrees with us)". Anything short of "heads I win, tails you lose" is absolutely unacceptable to them.

"Hypocrisy" is everywhere in politics, from left, to right, to center. What's new?

Your post here is normalizing Republican hypocrisy with "both sides do it". All evidence does NOT suggest that the left / Dem politicians, voters, pundits, etc are generally exhibiting comparable levels of hypocrisy. Obviously your statement is literally factually correct, but the subtext couldn't be further from the truth. The GOP and their base are on an entirely different level of hypocrisy.

Judging the levels of hypocrisy in any objective way is impossible, and really only serves purity-testing the opponent by telling them what they ought to think. Yes, like a liberal who thinks a conservative who should get closer to liberal views, and/or someone who has a caricatured image of conservative in mind, will look at things "objectively".
Thank you. I needed a laugh.

[T'Chenka]

Your post here is normalizing Republican hypocrisy with "both sides do it". All evidence does NOT suggest that the left / Dem politicians, voters, pundits, etc are generally exhibiting comparable levels of hypocrisy. Obviously your statement is literally factually correct, but the subtext couldn't be further from the truth. The GOP and their base are on an entirely different level of hypocrisy.

Judging the levels of hypocrisy in any objective way is impossible, and really only serves purity-testing the opponent by telling them what they ought to think. Yes, like a liberal who thinks a conservative who should get closer to liberal views, and/or someone who has a caricatured image of conservative in mind, will look at things "objectively".
Thank you. I needed a laugh.

Putting aside whether or not I am biased, assuming that both parties are equally hypocritical isn't really a logical assumption to make. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. The way to find out is to examine the evidence.

[Joe Republic]

It seems worth noting that both women who lodged the complaint are wives of pastors.  And Xenia is unsurprisingly a Trump town, whose city council president went on to complain about the incident to a Tea Party meeting.  My point being that there is quite a bit of performative outrage happening here.

(Yeah I know, the Tea Party is apparently still a thing!  Who knew?)

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Your post here is normalizing Republican hypocrisy with "both sides do it". All evidence does NOT suggest that the left / Dem politicians, voters, pundits, etc are generally exhibiting comparable levels of hypocrisy. Obviously your statement is literally factually correct, but the subtext couldn't be further from the truth. The GOP and their base are on an entirely different level of hypocrisy.

Judging the levels of hypocrisy in any objective way is impossible, and really only serves purity-testing the opponent by telling them what they ought to think. Yes, like a liberal who thinks a conservative who should get closer to liberal views, and/or someone who has a caricatured image of conservative in mind, will look at things "objectively".
Thank you. I needed a laugh.

Putting aside whether or not I am biased, assuming that both parties are equally hypocritical isn't really a logical assumption to make. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. The way to find out is to examine the evidence.

Laudable ideal. However, some things cannot fit into this paradigm. In practice, subjective political views heavily influence what is seen as logical or not.
The scientific method, at least in its pure form, cannot be applied to politics.