2024 Third Party and Independent Candidate General discussion

[America Needs R'hllor]

https://twitter.com/CornelWest/status/1678490771228622848?t=tpsIL13liwaR6XzzwyJr...
Wow; I'm shocked!! The anti-Dem leftist is once again a fascist Putinist? Whoever could've foreseen it?! The libs were right again, just like they were on Tulsi Gabbard, Jill Stein, Glenn Greenwald, Tara Read, Edward Snowden, Briannah Joy Grey, Jeremy Corbyn, etc? Curses!

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://twitter.com/CornelWest/status/1678490771228622848?t=tpsIL13liwaR6XzzwyJr...

This talking point acts like countries dont need unanimous support for entry into NATO. If Russia wanted to stop Ukrainian admission, they would just need Hungary or Turkey to veto it which pre invasion would almost certainly have done

[America Needs R'hllor]

https://twitter.com/CornelWest/status/1678490771228622848?t=tpsIL13liwaR6XzzwyJr...

This talking point acts like countries dont need unanimous support for entry into NATO. If Russia wanted to stop Ukrainian admission, they would just need Hungary or Turkey to veto it which pre invasion would almost certainly have done

Notice how he frames it "American Empire" and "Russian Federation", even though only one of them waa forcefully occupying another country (even before the Ukraine invasion). Framing reveals a lot about a person's intentions.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

https://twitter.com/CornelWest/status/1678490771228622848?t=tpsIL13liwaR6XzzwyJr...
Wow; I'm shocked!! The anti-Dem leftist is once again a fascist Putinist? Whoever could've foreseen it?! The libs were right again, just like they were on Tulsi Gabbard, Jill Stein, Glenn Greenwald, Tara Read, Edward Snowden, Briannah Joy Grey, Jeremy Corbyn, etc? Curses!

I didn't know that fascist Putinists called Russia's invasion of Ukraine criminal.

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://twitter.com/CornelWest/status/1678490771228622848?t=tpsIL13liwaR6XzzwyJr...

This talking point acts like countries dont need unanimous support for entry into NATO. If Russia wanted to stop Ukrainian admission, they would just need Hungary or Turkey to veto it which pre invasion would almost certainly have done

Notice how he frames it "American Empire" and "Russian Federation", even though only one of them waa forcefully occupying another country (even before the Ukraine invasion). Framing reveals a lot about a person's intentions.

It is completely ridiculous and shows really how much being anti American to them matters more than any of their so called beliefs in being anti imperialistic given you literally cannot get anymore imperialist than trying to invade another country for the purpose of incorporating their territory into yours(or putting in place a puppet gov that does the same thing effectively).

[America Needs R'hllor]

https://twitter.com/CornelWest/status/1678490771228622848?t=tpsIL13liwaR6XzzwyJr...
Wow; I'm shocked!! The anti-Dem leftist is once again a fascist Putinist? Whoever could've foreseen it?! The libs were right again, just like they were on Tulsi Gabbard, Jill Stein, Glenn Greenwald, Tara Read, Edward Snowden, Briannah Joy Grey, Jeremy Corbyn, etc? Curses!

I didn't know that fascist Putinists called Russia's invasion of Ukraine criminal.

If he said so in the past, you won't be able to glean it from this aggressively Putinist tweet. In fact, if you can't recognize how awful this statement is, you're doing it on purpose.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

https://twitter.com/CornelWest/status/1678490771228622848?t=tpsIL13liwaR6XzzwyJr...
Wow; I'm shocked!! The anti-Dem leftist is once again a fascist Putinist? Whoever could've foreseen it?! The libs were right again, just like they were on Tulsi Gabbard, Jill Stein, Glenn Greenwald, Tara Read, Edward Snowden, Briannah Joy Grey, Jeremy Corbyn, etc? Curses!

I didn't know that fascist Putinists called Russia's invasion of Ukraine criminal.

If he said so in the past, you won't be able to glean it from this aggressively Putinist tweet. In fact, if you can't recognize how awful this statement is, you're doing it on purpose.

He literally said the word criminal in that tweet. Some "fascist Putinist" or whatever would be outraged about that, assuming they care at all about what Cornel West says.

[PSOL]

I see Cornel Derangement Syndrome is the new normal

[MichaelM24]

I see Cornel Derangement Syndrome is the new normal

If someone's a Democrat, or a Biden supporter, I sort of expect them to be anti leftist alternatives. They were against Nader, McKinney, Stein, etc., so the pattern holds. (Notice that I didn't list Cobb, who ran a somewhat "safe state strategy" - Democrats were probably still pissed at him, but not as pissed as with other candidates).

I don't have a dog in this race, aside from the fact I'm 95% likely to vote for some third party candidate. Could be Cornel West, could be whoever the Greens nominate if it's not West, or could be another candidate from another party.

That said, I don't go out of my way to attack Biden or Trump supporters - if that's who some people want to vote for, so be it. I wish those who expressed interest in third party candidates got the same modicum of respect.

[coloradocowboi]

I see Cornel Derangement Syndrome is the new normal

Tbf tho I was entertaining voting for him and this sealed the deal
That I will reluctantly vote for Joseph R Biden. Cornel isn’t running a serious campaign. I agree with his critique of Ukraine but what exactly is his policy solution? Unilaterally disengage so the Russians can have a nice little genocide? Purity politics is a lot easier in the classroom than the Oval Office and as a socialist I hope dr west stays there.

At any rate he won’t “steal” any votes from Biden because he already is losing the persuadables and his ride or dies would’ve voted PSL or green regardless of the nomineee

[PSOL]

I see Cornel Derangement Syndrome is the new normal

Tbf tho I was entertaining voting for him and this sealed the deal
That I will reluctantly vote for Joseph R Biden. Cornel isn’t running a serious campaign. I agree with his critique of Ukraine but what exactly is his policy solution? Unilaterally disengage so the Russians can have a nice little genocide? Purity politics is a lot easier in the classroom than the Oval Office and as a socialist I hope dr west stays there.

At any rate he won’t “steal” any votes from Biden because he already is losing the persuadables and his ride or dies would’ve voted PSL or green regardless of the nomineee

Cornel advocates for an immediate ceasefire and peace deal negotiated by all sides, advocated by all serious peace activists.

So far no serious abandonment of him for Biden exists among voters, although that’s mainly because progressives are already lockstep with Biden. Cornel has ran a bad campaign with very little on the ground campaigning, which is not surprising.

[OSR stands with Israel]

I see Cornel Derangement Syndrome is the new normal

Tbf tho I was entertaining voting for him and this sealed the deal
That I will reluctantly vote for Joseph R Biden. Cornel isn’t running a serious campaign. I agree with his critique of Ukraine but what exactly is his policy solution? Unilaterally disengage so the Russians can have a nice little genocide? Purity politics is a lot easier in the classroom than the Oval Office and as a socialist I hope dr west stays there.

At any rate he won’t “steal” any votes from Biden because he already is losing the persuadables and his ride or dies would’ve voted PSL or green regardless of the nomineee

Cornel advocates for an immediate ceasefire and peace deal negotiated by all sides, advocated by all serious peace activists.

So far no serious abandonment of him for Biden exists among voters, although that’s mainly because progressives are already lockstep with Biden. Cornel has ran a bad campaign with very little on the ground campaigning, which is not surprising.

What is the terms of the peace deal though. If it is 2021 borders then you can make that argument but to say it should be 2023 borders is completely ridiculous.

[PSOL]

I see Cornel Derangement Syndrome is the new normal

Tbf tho I was entertaining voting for him and this sealed the deal
That I will reluctantly vote for Joseph R Biden. Cornel isn’t running a serious campaign. I agree with his critique of Ukraine but what exactly is his policy solution? Unilaterally disengage so the Russians can have a nice little genocide? Purity politics is a lot easier in the classroom than the Oval Office and as a socialist I hope dr west stays there.

At any rate he won’t “steal” any votes from Biden because he already is losing the persuadables and his ride or dies would’ve voted PSL or green regardless of the nomineee

Cornel advocates for an immediate ceasefire and peace deal negotiated by all sides, advocated by all serious peace activists.

So far no serious abandonment of him for Biden exists among voters, although that’s mainly because progressives are already lockstep with Biden. Cornel has ran a bad campaign with very little on the ground campaigning, which is not surprising.

What is the terms of the peace deal though. If it is 2021 borders then you can make that argument but to say it should be 2023 borders is completely ridiculous.

That is up for negotiation between the players from what Hawkins said of West’s standpoint.

[Agonized-Statism]

Here's an article from Dan La Botz, co-editor of the socialist journal New Politics, from early June before West jumped into the Green primaries and Hawkins decided not to run. Unable to find another source for Hawkins' quotes in the article, but La Botz features Hawkins' take on West:

https://newpol.org/cornel-west-for-president-what-does-the-left-think/

Howie Hawkins, the Green Party presidential candidate in 2020 who is still deciding whether to run in 2024 was quite critical of West and the People’s Party. “Cornel West shows poor judgment tying himself to Nick Brana’s online grift, the People’s Party. They have no organized base to do ballot access petitioning. It is doubtful he can raise money to pay for petitioners in up to 50 states and DC.”

Hawkins thinks that West will not be able to stand the heat of an election campaign. “I doubt whether West will stick it out as the anybody-but-Trump (or the next far-right Republican) pressure mounts. He’s been flip-flopping on this question for years. After supporting Ralph Nader in 2000, he was an outspoken opponent of Nader’s 2004 run as an independent candidate in part because of the left-liberal backlash against Nader and the Greens for supposedly electing George W. Bush.

“After supporting Sanders in the primaries, West flipped to Jill Stein in the general in 2016. In 2020, he flipped back to the Democrats, publicly opposing my run and calling for a vote for Biden because of the left-liberal backlash against Stein and the Greens for supposedly electing Trump. He’s never had a principled commitment to independent working-class politics, or been part of an organization trying to do that. Always more a figure in letterhead coalitions, from Michael Harrington’s Democratic Socialist Organizing Committee (DSOC, predecessor of DSA) to various top-down NGO or academic issue campaigns. For him, inside or outside the capitalist Democratic Party has always been a question of immediate tactics around candidates, not a question of building independent working-class organization and power.”

Hawkins also criticizes West’s platform. “He has not been consistently anti-imperialist and in solidarity with Ukrainian people’s fight for independence and survival. He has supported Medea Benjamin’s approach of demanding U.S. imperialists impose a ceasefire and settlement negotiated with Russian imperialists for land-for-peace to carve up Ukraine between Russian and Western spheres of influence. His neutrality between Russian aggressors and Ukrainian self-defense is morally bankrupt complicity in Russian imperialism. Not a good look for a Christian preacher.”

Hawkins makes a prescient point on West's flip-flopping, and it's a shame they probably won't put their strengths in party organizing and broader appeal together on a ticket. It's best for the party that Hawkins sat this one out and avoided a contentious primary, though. Hopefully West surprises the purity testers and sticks with the Greens. You can't go it alone with class conflict, the climate crisis, etc., and as many problems as they have, the Greens are the best opportunity for an independent left-wing party in this country.

[PSOL]

The Green Party is leagues more pathetic than anything that came out of the Trudoviks.

If Cornel West fails to acquire at minimum 600,000 votes, then the Green party is dead and buried. So far he is shaping up to be a new version of Roseanne Barr whose candidacy crippled P&F and led any new sort of growth to come from PSL. Unlike P&F, the remaining entryists in the Green party who worked tirelessly in helping keep the party on life support will bail on them. Once the Anti-Hawkins faction throws SAlt under the bus, they will fall into irrelevancy until reemerging like a decade later in some other part of the country like they have done so. SPUSA might leave, and there goes any Green party relevancy in the upper Northeast and Midwest, and there's going to be a crowded field nationally if the WCP takes off along with any other entrants. P&F will benefit regardless of the candidate as long as California numbers are up.

Special props goes to the Black Agenda Report team who somehow forgot the basics of Jesse Jackson's campaign and the Occupy kiddie Margaret Flowers. Voluntarily giving in to Hawkins Derangement Syndrome and holding hands with Democratic infiltrator saboteurs like Jill Stein whose actions will crash the entire party is a foregone conclusion.

[Continential]

https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1679525005678239749
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1679516647906787329
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1679516368826167297
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1679516013128212480
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1679515823595986954
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1679513573226078209
I find it funny how No Labels claims that this poll was designed to sink them. I would like to see some polling with prospective No Labels candidates like Manchin and Hogan.

[PSOL]

Apparently even republicans have teamed up with democrats out of fear of this possibility. As soon as it becomes a reality I will start reporting on them.

[PSOL]

Well now

https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/trees/mapping-trotskyism.pdf

[Agonized-Statism]

Well now

https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/trees/mapping-trotskyism.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPvbzljPTtc

Least fragmented Trots

[PSOL]

Well now

https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/trees/mapping-trotskyism.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPvbzljPTtc

Least fragmented Trots

Well most of these groups were irrelevant on the scene or defunct. There's like a few groups that matter that try to cater to most of the 320+ million people here.

[Electric Circus]

This is such a hilarious way to push-poll. I want to see a three-way match-up between Biden, Trump, and Mr. Young and Handsome next.

[PSOL]

Colorado GOP and L form alliance, dissident C’s against alliance

Libertarians really are choosing the wrong path. Green unilateral action or pressure on not running candidates failed and so will this.

George Phillies sold IPR to Outside foundation. If they were smart they would beg the likes of Eugene Puryear, Abby Martin, or the Black Agenda Reporters to join in.

[ReallySuper]

cornel west raised over $71,000 in his first month. thats more than twice what hawkins raised over the same period in 2019.

since he hasnt campaigned much yet (less than $2,800 in expenditures) he also still has almost all of that cash on hand. he should easily be on his way to earning matching funds, hopefully without all the trouble the fec gave jill and howie.

[PSOL]

And there’s another challenger to Cornel West going by Daví recognized by the party

Any talk of No Labels should probably be merged into this thread

[Mr. Smith]

And there’s another challenger to Cornel West going by Daví recognized by the party

Any talk of No Labels should probably be merged into this thread

Is that Randy Toler's other name now?