PA-SN 2022 megathread: Shrek vs. The Wizard of Oz

[Progressive Pessimist]

My dog just had an accident on the floor. I think I'm going to start threatening to sign him up for a Dr. Oz experiment if he doesn't behave. That ought to correct his behavior.

The Philadelphia Inqurier has picked up the puppy story.

Pretty much says as what we've been saying - Oz didn't kill any puppies *himself* but the facts show he was the leader of the research and studies, and he oversaw everything. His name as also attached starting in 2004 when Columbia had to pay its fine.

https://www.inquirer.com/politics/pennsylvania/mehmet-oz-puppies-dog-animal-abuse-research-senate-20221004.html

No matter the nuances, if Fetterman is "soft on crime" for commuting the sentences for wrongfully convicted prisoners, then it's fair for Oz to be portrayed as a mad scientist who kills man's best friends with no remorse.

The Ass is basically the Mengele and Frankenstein combined to dogs. Frankenstein is the doctor, not the monster. I still don't think everyone knows that.

I'm aware. I am persnickety enough to always note that mistake too.

[wbrocks67]

https://twitter.com/JonathanTamari/status/1577411911259414528

[wbrocks67]

Local news outlets reporting on the story, along with Oz's campaign spokesperson's response on the story to ask "Who is Gisele?" (Fettermans wife) and... that was their response to the story [Gisele had made a statement about the puppy story]

https://twitter.com/jjabbott/status/1577445826460254208

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Now Oz is finished

[Arizona Iced Tea]

https://twitter.com/Carrasquillo/status/1577329357386825728

[SnowLabrador]

Shapiro will win and Fetterman will lose.

[wbrocks67]

The video from Pittsburgh's local news station is even worse. They break down all the charges with some soundbites from their interview with Gisele.

They then go on with "we reached out to Dr. Oz for statement about animal cruelty, but all they said was, "Gisele... who is she? is she running for something?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBZkC18UkWA

[UncleSam]

https://twitter.com/Carrasquillo/status/1577329357386825728

Do we have cross tabs from 2020? These honestly don’t seem like terrible numbers for Oz, though Fetterman is running more of a white working class centric campaign so guess that makes sense.

[Virginiá]

TBH, even with control of the senate at stake, I would vote against the Democrat if it came out they were killing dogs (or ordering such) for research. I get that everyone is partisan af these days but I'd at least like to think that if you are a dog lover, you'd draw the line at needlessly euthanizing these precious creatures:

[Person Man]

TBH, even with control of the senate at stake, I would vote against the Democrat if it came out they were killing dogs (or ordering such) for research. I get that everyone is partisan af these days but I'd at least like to think that if you are a dog lover, you'd draw the line at needlessly euthanizing these precious creatures:

At certain point, you would think that people who advocate for your values being so extremely immoral would make you want to reconsider your values. If Democrats are rightly pessimistic about the polls because Republicans regularly lie on then, I guess it shows 1) there is an issue with poor morals, and 2) people are aware of it and are dealing with it the absolute worst way possible.

As world society stumbles from one crisis to the next (like clockwork from ISIS to Brexit, Brexit to COVID-19, COVID-19 to the one bad day from WW3 situation in Ukraine)  slowly is consumed by the sh**t abyss, the people only have themselves to blame when everyday becomes a life or death struggle.

[UncleSam]

TBH, even with control of the senate at stake, I would vote against the Democrat if it came out they were killing dogs (or ordering such) for research. I get that everyone is partisan af these days but I'd at least like to think that if you are a dog lover, you'd draw the line at needlessly euthanizing these precious creatures:

But that’s the thing….he just wasn’t. He was conducting medical research trials on important potentially life-saving heart medications as a research director at a major medical university. Almost 100% of such trials end up killing animals.

Now we can debate the ethics of animal testing during such trials, but at no point has it been suggested either that this was an unusual practice in the field or that Oz was personally involved in the euthanasia of the test subjects. The worst allegations are that some of his researchers did not follow proper guidelines when euthanizing the subjects, an extremely minor violation that carries a 2000$ fine.

This story may as well have been ‘Oz was an important medical researcher at a major institution for 21 years; while there, several staffers got speeding tickets’. The penalties in terms of fines are similar, the only difference between the two is that the speeding tickets might make someone lose their license.

If anything I am impressed that he was a medical researcher at Columbia. I honestly thought he was just a TV personality selling questionable tonics and elixirs to unsuspecting housewives. My opinion of him based on this story has gone up significantly and anyone who thinks otherwise honestly just has no idea how the scientific process works or how medicine is tested and developed.

[ProgressiveModerate]

TBH, even with control of the senate at stake, I would vote against the Democrat if it came out they were killing dogs (or ordering such) for research. I get that everyone is partisan af these days but I'd at least like to think that if you are a dog lover, you'd draw the line at needlessly euthanizing these precious creatures:

But that’s the thing….he just wasn’t. He was conducting medical research trials on important potentially life-saving heart medications as a research director at a major medical university. Almost 100% of such trials end up killing animals.

Now we can debate the ethics of animal testing during such trials, but at no point has it been suggested either that this was an unusual practice in the field or that Oz was personally involved in the euthanasia of the test subjects. The worst allegations are that some of his researchers did not follow proper guidelines when euthanizing the subjects, an extremely minor violation that carries a 2000$ fine.

This story may as well have been ‘Oz was an important medical researcher at a major institution for 21 years; while there, several staffers got speeding tickets’. The penalties in terms of fines are similar, the only difference between the two is that the speeding tickets might make someone lose their license.

If anything I am impressed that he was a medical researcher at Columbia. I honestly thought he was just a TV personality selling questionable tonics and elixirs to unsuspecting housewives. My opinion of him based on this story has gone up significantly and anyone who thinks otherwise honestly just has no idea how the scientific process works or how medicine is tested and developed.

I think the issue with the story is less about medical testing but:

1. Dogs. People love dogs.

2. A lot of dogs.

3. How he treated the dogs in the article. For instance, putting dead dogs in garbage bags with alive dogs is messed up. This is really the point that is inexcusable any way you slice it.

[TheReckoning]

Scientific experimentation on animals for medical advancement for humans is entirely justified. This is such a weak line of attack.

[Хahar 🤔]

If anything I am impressed that he was a medical researcher at Columbia. I honestly thought he was just a TV personality selling questionable tonics and elixirs to unsuspecting housewives.

Yeah, my main reaction was surprise that he would be a real enough doctor to do actual research.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

I honestly don't care about this. Using dogs for medical research is very legitimate. On the other hand, I fully support doing whatever it takes to allow Fetterman to win and this is a great dog whistle. It reminds me of the classic "Barack Obama ate dogs in Indonesia". Very fun way to remind people that Dr. Oz is a Turk and also Muslim.

Is this stupid? Yes, of course it is. It's also stupid that Fetterman is being smeared for working really hard to rehabilitate two guys who deserved a 2nd chance after being imprisoned. That doesn't make him "soft on crime" (he chased a guy down with a gun), it makes him a good person. Oz deserves this.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

The average voter doesn't give a f@ck about 'medical research'. They just care that Dr. Oz killed dogs.

Republican's entire campaign is based on buzzword nonsense and misleading slogans. But then they get mad when Democrats do the same thing (see also Inflation Reduction Act, etc)

Voters are complete idiots, and if you have been on the blog for any substantial amount of time you'd know this.

[ꙮ]

Scientific experimentation on animals for medical advancement for humans is entirely justified. This is such a weak line of attack.

The first sentence is arguably true. The second is not. "Dr. Oz kills puppies" is a pretty effective line of attack. People in this country love dogs a lot, and what Dr. Oz did is going to play badly even if medical testing is justifiable. The specific things mentioned go into abuse beyond "just" testing. Real sick stuff.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

Although I swear if it comes out he did experiments on cats I will literally send $1,000 to Fetterman.

[UncleSam]

The average voter doesn't give a f@ck about 'medical research'. They just care that Dr. Oz killed dogs.

Republican's entire campaign is based on buzzword nonsense and misleading slogans. But then they get mad when Democrats do the same thing (see also Inflation Reduction Act, etc)

Voters are complete idiots, and if you have been on the blog for any substantial amount of time you'd know this.

So I’ll just say this one more time in the vain hope that somebody will understand or not repeat this.

The number of dogs killed by Dr. Oz is 0. As in zero. None. I’m not talking about justifiable killings or euthanasia or medical research whatever, I’m talking period. Dr. Oz has never killed a dog for any reason.

People on his research team did in the course of running clinical trials. I legitimately do think that voters are smarter than that and honestly from what I’ve read there have barely been any major news articles about this at all. There was one Philadelphia Inquirer article which painted a moderately negative picture of Oz, but that is honestly just par for the course. That’s not a scandal, that’s a normal Tuesday.

Again, this is not remotely similar to the abortion scandal in Georgia. That one is damning and is likely to swing a decisive number of voters.

Fetterman may well win, but it won’t be because of this dumb dog story.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

The average voter doesn't give a f@ck about 'medical research'. They just care that Dr. Oz killed dogs.

Republican's entire campaign is based on buzzword nonsense and misleading slogans. But then they get mad when Democrats do the same thing (see also Inflation Reduction Act, etc)

Voters are complete idiots, and if you have been on the blog for any substantial amount of time you'd know this.

So I’ll just say this one more time in the vain hope that somebody will understand or not repeat this.

The number of dogs killed by Dr. Oz is 0. As in zero. None. I’m not talking about justifiable killings or euthanasia or medical research whatever, I’m talking period. Dr. Oz has never killed a dog for any reason.

People on his research team did in the course of running clinical trials. I legitimately do think that voters are smarter than that and honestly from what I’ve read there have barely been any major news articles about this at all. There was one Philadelphia Inquirer article which painted a moderately negative picture of Oz, but that is honestly just par for the course. That’s not a scandal, that’s a normal Tuesday.

Again, this is not remotely similar to the abortion scandal in Georgia. That one is damning and is likely to swing a decisive number of voters.

Fetterman may well win, but it won’t be because of this dumb dog story.

The average voter won't think that. If you still think "how could someone believe this" with regards to the American electorate then I don't know what to tell you.

[Virginiá]

So I’ll just say this one more time in the vain hope that somebody will understand or not repeat this.

The number of dogs killed by Dr. Oz is 0. As in zero. None. I’m not talking about justifiable killings or euthanasia or medical research whatever, I’m talking period. Dr. Oz has never killed a dog for any reason.

People on his research team did in the course of running clinical trials. [...]

Yeah, see, this is not lost on some of us. I know Dr. Oz wasn't putting them down himself, or it seems unlikely to me. But most people don't really think about animal testing and think it's generally on non-domesticated animals that we don't keep as pets. I take exception to anyone using dogs to test their crap. Lots of scientists probably do this, and if I knew a scientist who was running for office did the same, I wouldn't vote for them either. I would think in a country where a over 1/3rd of American households have at least one dog would not use dogs for research, just like people here don't eat dogs or cats (well, most of us, I'm sure).

At any rate, I already said in the post you responded to that I don't care if he did it or was simply a part of those who did.

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

Another gray day off. 

Any intel on when that Monmouth poll drops?

[wbrocks67]

Nobody believes Oz personally killed 300 puppies himself. The point is that he was involved in inhumane treatment - even outside of the "typical medical experiments" that are done on animals. The article goes on to say how much past it that it goes, including the terrible treatment of the bodies and what they did with those animals past the testing and research. And Oz was the leader on all those studies. You don't get to just say "oh I oversaw it but I didn't do it personally so I'm good." Even taking politics out of it, that's not okay. Total cop-out.

Either way, Oz is not responding to it so I imagine they don't know what to say.

https://twitter.com/jjabbott/status/1577621914561961984

[wbrocks67]

Oz’s consolidation of Republicans — as well as his and Fetterman’s continued challenges — were on display in a September focus group of Trump-to-Biden swing voters held by the Republican Accountability PAC. All of the people voted in this year’s GOP primary, which means they were registered as Republicans. Four said they would cast a ballot for Fetterman if the election were held today, while four sided with Oz. One of the people now supporting Oz had previously said in a focus group in August that he would leave his ballot blank.

A Democratic pollster said Democratic internal polling shows that Fetterman’s standing with independents “continues to far outpace” Oz’s following the crime ads. The person said Fetterman has led the group by at least single digits since July – and double digits this week.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/05/johnson-oz-gain-in-senate-polling-00060326

Shows what we've seen in most polls with Fetterman leading Independents. Also interesting to note that the first paragraph references the Sarah Longwell focus group I believe. Makes it more interesting that all of them, while being Trump-Biden voters, are registered *Republicans*, so Oz/Fetterman going 50/50 on them is not as bad as it sounds.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Nobody believes Oz personally killed 300 puppies himself.

Some people definitely do and as far as I'm concerned the more Pennsylvania voters who do the better.