COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[jamestroll]

I had the virus. I got through it. We can not live in fear.

So because YOU had it and got through it you think everyone else will?

I'm in the middle on all of this and genuinely see both sides. But this is just an extremely selfish view. You do realize millions of people have not fully recovered and still have nasty, often severe side effects, right? They may never fully recover.

It's not all about you.

I am advocating for people's incomes who will be permanently lost.

It is not my problem that Republicans refuse to wear masks.

I am happy with the way GOP Governors are handling the situation now but they should have instituted those same restrictions MONTHS ago.

They are responsible for the situation in this country. Not me. They are not heros now.

[jamestroll]

I had the virus. I got through it. We can not live in fear.

So because YOU had it and got through it you think everyone else will?

I'm in the middle on all of this and genuinely see both sides. But this is just an extremely selfish view. You do realize millions of people have not fully recovered and still have nasty, often severe side effects, right? They may never fully recover.

It's not all about you.

Its selfish of others to expect people to have their livelihoods destroyed.

[Dr. Arch]

I had the virus. I got through it. We can not live in fear.

Just wait until he gets it again and realizes that there's no acquired immunity to it and that reinfections are typically worse than the first cases.

[Beet]

I had the virus. I got through it. We can not live in fear.

Just wait until he gets it again and realizes that there's no acquired immunity to it and that reinfections are typically worse than the first cases.

Where are all the reports of reinfection? You'd think we'd hear of more cases by now if that was the case.

[Dr. Arch]

I had the virus. I got through it. We can not live in fear.

So because YOU had it and got through it you think everyone else will?

I'm in the middle on all of this and genuinely see both sides. But this is just an extremely selfish view. You do realize millions of people have not fully recovered and still have nasty, often severe side effects, right? They may never fully recover.

It's not all about you.

Its selfish of others to expect people to have their livelihoods destroyed.

Here I thought that dying and having people's loved ones die was the ultimate way to destroy one's "livelihood," but hey, you know best.

[jamestroll]

I had the virus. I got through it. We can not live in fear.

Just wait until he gets it again and realizes that there's no acquired immunity to it and that reinfections are typically worse than the first cases.

its rare to get covid twice.

Too bad that I am a mask nazi and am HIGHLY cautious so the chances of me getting it is very unlikely.

[jamestroll]

I had the virus. I got through it. We can not live in fear.

So because YOU had it and got through it you think everyone else will?

I'm in the middle on all of this and genuinely see both sides. But this is just an extremely selfish view. You do realize millions of people have not fully recovered and still have nasty, often severe side effects, right? They may never fully recover.

It's not all about you.

Its selfish of others to expect people to have their livelihoods destroyed.

Here I thought that dying and having people's loved ones die was the ultimate way to destroy one's "livelihood," but hey, you know best.

I lost both parents last year (non covid obviously) which likely influenced my initial decision to support lockdowns and foolishly believed the government would open up responsibly. Which they did not.

In the summer some blue avatars criticized me for being too restrictive on economic activity. lmao

[jamestroll]

I do have legit breathing difficulties when wearing a mask.. I even wear a mask when running or working out in the gym. And no, I will not feel bad for working out in the gym.  The chances of covid reinfection are possible.. and I will not be the one to spread it to others.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

I feel like the main problem to tackling covid in the US is that our political debate has come to so completely revolve around Trump during his time in office that many people on the left felt reflexively obligated to oppose every position that he took on every issue. 

It obviously didn't help that the "positions" he was taking on covid were so obviously callous, ignorant, and often loony.  So it became impossible for progressives to advocate for a more holistic approach to the crisis in a thoughtful way without getting tarnished through association with Trump's stink.

[jamestroll]

I feel like the main problem to tackling covid in the US is that our political debate has come to so completely revolve around Trump during his time in office that many people on the left felt reflexively obligated to oppose every position that he took on every issue. 

It obviously didn't help that the "positions" he was taking on covid were so obviously callous, ignorant, and often loony.  So it became impossible for progressives to advocate for a more holistic approach to the crisis in a thoughtful way without getting tarnished through association with Trump's stink.

I agree.

Do you think my positions.. which I have held for months.. are irrational? I was very uneasy with Northam allowing gatherings of  250 people in doors back in the summer....

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

I vote for Democrats because I support left wing policy.

But why why why why why is the left so pro lockdown?

Why are Democratic Governors and local officials willing to let millions have no income and potentially become homeless just to stop some old people from dying?

No stimulus = no lockdown. And to be frank our national debt is already high enough. The best decision of many bad decisions is to just keep the economy open and no new stimulus.

With no federal stimulus money it is not worth leaving millions and millions homeless and incomeless just to keep some old people from dying. Let them die. I hate to say that but it is true. Do not destroy everyone's livelihoods permanently.

Of course, this discussion could be outdated in a few months. Vaccinations of even only the most vulnerable populations will be a major factor in allowing the economy to move again.

What a ridiculously uninformed take.

Nobody, or at least nobody sensible, is arguing that there should be lockdowns but that we should not have stimulus. Frankly, regardless of whether there are lockdowns there needs to be more stimulus, but especially if some people have incomes interrupted due to lockdown orders, their incomes should be supported during that time.

As for the "national debt," do you not realize that literally the only cost of stimulus spending is (potentially) inflation? And there is no sign of any inflation to be at all worried about at the moment (if anything, inflation is too low/disinflation/deflation is more of a risk):

CONSUMER PRICE INDEX – OCTOBER 2020

 The Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers (CPI-U) was unchanged in October
 on a seasonally adjusted basis after rising 0.2 percent in September, the U.S.
 Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. Over the last 12 months, the all
 items index increased 1.2 percent before seasonal adjustment.

Other than the possibility of maybe, sometime, having more inflation due to extra spending capacity out in the economy, stimulus spending is literally costless. Even Fed chairman Jay Powell understands this, which is why he has practically been begging for more fiscal stimulus from Congress (even apart from any other lockdowns and for months on end). The only person who has been blocking that has been Mitch McConnell.

Stimulus spending increases the wealth held by the American public. When the government spends more money, someone in the public receives money in their bank account, and then either they spend it or buy a financial asset like a government bond. If people spend the stimulus money, they are better off because they get the stuff that they spend the money on (and then eventually the money gets passed on to someone who doesn't spend it, who owns a government bond in their retirement/pension account and becomes wealthier than before). And if you get stimulus money and don't spend it, then you can use the stimulus money to buy a government bond, and are now wealthier and can spend more in the future. Literally nobody is worse off as part of the bargain.

Don't get me wrong, if inflation were a problem, then this would not be the case. But fortunately for us, inflation is not a problem, and consequently stimulus is essentially free money for everyone and is also essentially costless for everyone. The reason why inflation is not a problem is, of course, that the economy is weak and will remain so for a while, with higher than normal unemployment (so while some stimulus spending is essentially a free lunch, in principle it is possible for there to be too much, though that is not the problem we face now).

The Federal government should stop issuing bonds and should simply spend money directly so that people like you would be less confused and misinformed about how government spending works (and the Federal reserve should simply directly issue bonds whenever it wants, or alternatively should control interest rates via interest on reserves rather than by buying/selling bonds, and there should be no government bonds issued at all).

People can be better off with no real cost, and the only person blocking that is, once again, public enemy #1: Mitch McConnell, because he wants the economy to be weaker so that Biden will be (eventually) blamed for it and because he wants to create a fake artificial crisis to force state and local governments to cut their spending.

[T'Chenka]

America is about to essentially be a starving man with a gunshot wound (rampant COVID). Jimmie's galaxy brain is telling us that giving the man medical treatment "isn't worth it" because Republicans refuse to let us feed him.

[gerritcole]

The nation has mentally moved past the virus - doesn't help that politicians seem to be playing by different rules (Newsom/Feinstein/all GOP) while preaching different rules to the people

[Fargobison]

I vote for Democrats because I support left wing policy.

But why why why why why is the left so pro lockdown?

Why are Democratic Governors and local officials willing to let millions have no income and potentially become homeless just to stop some old people from dying?

No stimulus = no lockdown. And to be frank our national debt is already high enough. The best decision of many bad decisions is to just keep the economy open and no new stimulus.

We might be getting to the point where lockdowns are necessary in some states. The latest stats look really bad.

I want to make it clear: I do not care how many people die from Covid-19 at this point.  With no federal stimulus money it is not worth leaving millions and millions homeless and incomeless just to keep some old people from dying. Let them die. I hate to say that but it is true. Do not destroy everyone's livelihoods permanently.

Of course, this discussion could be outdated in a few months. Vaccinations of even only the most vulnerable populations will be a major factor in allowing the economy to move again.

It'd only be for a few weeks so the hospitals don't get completely overloaded during the Winter. This wouldn't be permanent. Things will get much better in the Spring, but we could be headed for a very, very dark winter if we don't act fast.


And this is coming from someone who has largely advocated for re-opening the country for much of the year. The huge case surge during Winter is very, very concerning

again the pro lockdown nazis always side step my concerns about leaving millions of people without ZERO income even for a short period.

Pro lockdown nazi? I've been advocating for re-opening the country since May. But sometimes the facts change; we have a massive COVID surge during the most deadly time of the year in terms of illness. I just think certain areas in places like South Dakota might have to do a temporary lockdown just so there isn't mass death.

Obviously it should be paired with stimulus checks

Noem won't even put a mask mandate in place, she won't lift a finger. She is worse than Trump in not caring about Covid, so I doubt anything will change in SD. She would actively fight a lockdown unless her godking Trump issued it.

[Fargobison]

Some good news...immunity might be longer lasting than previously thought...

https://twitter.com/apoorva_nyc/status/1328751557719040001

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

Our national debt is at a dangerous level. Therefore, I oppose any new massive stimulus packages.

and we have almost 28 TRILLION DOLLARS of national debt! No more major stimulus packages please. I am done with this bull.

There is literally 0 danger from the "national debt" to anything. The only danger is an imaginary danger that is infecting your mind and causing you to support sabotaging the economy and making people worse off due to insufficient spending power circulating through the economy.

This, again, is why either the government should stop issuing bonds so that there would be no more "national debt," or alternatively maybe we should just rename the "national debt" to the "national asset" and then maybe you would not feel the need to be worried about it (every dollar of "debt" is held by someone as an asset). The only reason you are worried about it is that you are not informed about the details of how government spending works.

As for the "national debt" being 28 trillion, you know what is also pretty close to 28 trillion? Well, the distance to Alpha Centauri is about 25 trillion miles. Is that scary? No. It has no particular relation to anything; it is literally just a number. Big numbers are not scary just because they are big. You are just irrationally scaremongering with 0 basis whatsoever (probably not your fault though, you just don't know any better and are understandably confused, because it does *sound* scary).

We have far too many actual real problems to spend time worrying about non-existent totally imaginary problems - among which are the fact that the virus is currently on track to kill 500k+ people in the USA and cause long term health issues for many more. As far as the economy goes, spend your time worrying about unemployment and about inflation if you want to be concerned with actual issues.

[Beet]

Trump has left us with a huge national debt. If you think that is bad. The blame lies squarely with the GOP.

If Covid had been controlled earlier, we would need neither stimulus nor lockdown

[Beet]

The nation has mentally moved past the virus - doesn't help that politicians seem to be playing by different rules (Newsom/Feinstein/all GOP) while preaching different rules to the people

There can't be another lockdown. The authorities have blown their credibility. They had one shot to get it right and they failed. They'll have to fight the pandemic without that tool.

[Fargobison]

Our governor issued a mask mandates and multiple public officials in western ND have said they won't enforce it, I can't even imagine what would happen with a lockdown. There would be a revolt even if the governor was on board.

[Fargobison]

Pfizer is getting close to asking for authorization....

https://twitter.com/rickberke/status/1328798655797743617

[jamestroll]

Okay, Pritzker's recent mitigations are more restrictive than I would like but they aren't unreasonable. So I will hold off in supporting impeaching him for now.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Mark Crispin Miller, Naomi Wolf, and Kim Iversen are prominent people on the left who oppose lockdowns.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Mark Crispin Miller, Naomi Wolf, and Kim Iversen are prominent people on the left who oppose lockdowns.

I've never heard of any of these people, and also the first one is a 9/11 truther.

Do better.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

\
I've never heard of any of these people, and also the first one is a 9/11 truther.

You've never heard of them, yet somehow you know they're a 9/11 truther.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

\
I've never heard of any of these people, and also the first one is a 9/11 truther.

You've never heard of them, yet somehow you know they're a 9/11 truther.

Google exists.